How do the Betas and TM brands compare to the big five?

rjs3118
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Edited Date/Time 8/21/2020 9:38am
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300 rx. Been a dire hard Honda guy since the cr80 days but these new models and manufacturers have me intrigued. How do the Betas and “boutique” brands compare to the big five? I have no intention of racing again just want to do some aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles. I realize they’re different bikes but was wondering how they compare quality wise, ride ability and durability with a Crf450 specifically. Thanks!!
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Tuna
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8/19/2020 8:20am
rjs3118 wrote:
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300...
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300 rx. Been a dire hard Honda guy since the cr80 days but these new models and manufacturers have me intrigued. How do the Betas and “boutique” brands compare to the big five? I have no intention of racing again just want to do some aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles. I realize they’re different bikes but was wondering how they compare quality wise, ride ability and durability with a Crf450 specifically. Thanks!!
I’ve spent a lot of time on Betas and Sherco as well as Husky/KTM and GasGas. A lot less on TM.
Really depends overall what your goals are. They all have strengths and weakness. I can get really good pricing on Beta, friends with the distributor. I ended up just going with a 2021 Husky 300 TX. I have not ridden the newRX as it is a US only deal with the American distributor. I can tell you how the 300 RE feels.
rjs3118
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8/19/2020 8:27am
cappelmans wrote:
Check this video. Gives some insight into the beta I hope: https://youtu.be/b158h5jo6Gc
Check this video. Gives some insight into the beta I hope: https://youtu.be/b158h5jo6Gc
Thanks so much, I’ll check it out

The Shop

rjs3118
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8/19/2020 8:30am
rjs3118 wrote:
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300...
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300 rx. Been a dire hard Honda guy since the cr80 days but these new models and manufacturers have me intrigued. How do the Betas and “boutique” brands compare to the big five? I have no intention of racing again just want to do some aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles. I realize they’re different bikes but was wondering how they compare quality wise, ride ability and durability with a Crf450 specifically. Thanks!!
Tuna wrote:
I’ve spent a lot of time on Betas and Sherco as well as Husky/KTM and GasGas. A lot less on TM. Really depends overall what your...
I’ve spent a lot of time on Betas and Sherco as well as Husky/KTM and GasGas. A lot less on TM.
Really depends overall what your goals are. They all have strengths and weakness. I can get really good pricing on Beta, friends with the distributor. I ended up just going with a 2021 Husky 300 TX. I have not ridden the newRX as it is a US only deal with the American distributor. I can tell you how the 300 RE feels.
I’d live to know your thoughts and how they compare to say a crf? I hear the new 2 strokes are night day from the ones of the past. Rode a 93 cr250 and I had to feather the clutch and prepare for that motor to hit. Now I hear these can run just above idle with no stall and smooth power
Tuna
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8/19/2020 8:45am
rjs3118 wrote:
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300...
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300 rx. Been a dire hard Honda guy since the cr80 days but these new models and manufacturers have me intrigued. How do the Betas and “boutique” brands compare to the big five? I have no intention of racing again just want to do some aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles. I realize they’re different bikes but was wondering how they compare quality wise, ride ability and durability with a Crf450 specifically. Thanks!!
Tuna wrote:
I’ve spent a lot of time on Betas and Sherco as well as Husky/KTM and GasGas. A lot less on TM. Really depends overall what your...
I’ve spent a lot of time on Betas and Sherco as well as Husky/KTM and GasGas. A lot less on TM.
Really depends overall what your goals are. They all have strengths and weakness. I can get really good pricing on Beta, friends with the distributor. I ended up just going with a 2021 Husky 300 TX. I have not ridden the newRX as it is a US only deal with the American distributor. I can tell you how the 300 RE feels.
rjs3118 wrote:
I’d live to know your thoughts and how they compare to say a crf? I hear the new 2 strokes are night day from the ones...
I’d live to know your thoughts and how they compare to say a crf? I hear the new 2 strokes are night day from the ones of the past. Rode a 93 cr250 and I had to feather the clutch and prepare for that motor to hit. Now I hear these can run just above idle with no stall and smooth power
New offroad 2 strokes are very smooth. The XC or TX bikes are a good compromise because you can do so much with them. In comparison a carbed 250SX hits hard and is more of a handful. The Euro 300’s have a lot of power and torque, you can short shift and run a gear high. They are still pretty mean when you twist the throttle hard. The TPi/injected bikes have less of a hit and crisp feel that the carb bikes have but are very smooth and give you great traction. The 250’s generally have a more lively and light feel and wind up and down quicker. The Euro trail bikes like the XCW/TE, Beta RR have softer suspensions and usually wider gearing depending on the brand. I ride with a lot of guys that like slow technical trail so buy the Bikes with open chamber forks. I like to ride more of a variety including hard Enduro stuff, fast single track, GNCC style and MX so usually go with an XC bike. I have a YZ250 FX as well.
8/19/2020 4:54pm
I'll be able to tell you around the end of October when my friend gets his RX 300.
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b_kowalsk
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8/19/2020 5:56pm
I feel like ordering oem parts is the biggest draw back of the Euro brands. Beta and Sherco are getting pretty well established but I hear you have to order direct from a dealer and they can't be ordered online as easily as the big 5. Also how do parts prices compare?
1983YZ125
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8/19/2020 6:27pm Edited Date/Time 8/19/2020 6:30pm
I'm on a 2018 Beta Xtrainer and wife is on a 2019 Beta 125 RR-S.

I have about 70 hours on my bike and it's been absolutely great. Has it's limitations (which i knew when i bought this model) but it's the best out of the box bike i've ever owned. Biggest gripe is the electrical. Overall it's fine, but just placement of some plugs that result in water messing with connections from washing. Easy enough to catch when it occurs and fix, and if i wasn't lazy i could probably re-locate or protect them better.

Put my wife on the 125 RR-S earlier this year and so far she loves it. Only full size trail bike on the market without going to a race bike. We were after a turd that was not over weight, but full size ergonomics. Once again, it has it's limitations that we knew about before we bought it but it's been great for the last 7 months.

I also own a 2018 Sherco 250 FST (trials), have about 8 events on the bike and plenty of playing around. Been absolutely solid since i bought it as a dealer demo.

Parts for both are easy to get. Typically takes a few days if it's in stock, 1 week or so if it's not. Few part suppliers offer 15% off list. I get parts sooner with these bikes than i did with the big brand bikes. Also helps the dealers (while few and far between) actually can help you if you need it.

Zero concerns buying either of these brands.
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MX915
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8/19/2020 6:59pm
b_kowalsk wrote:
I feel like ordering oem parts is the biggest draw back of the Euro brands. Beta and Sherco are getting pretty well established but I hear...
I feel like ordering oem parts is the biggest draw back of the Euro brands. Beta and Sherco are getting pretty well established but I hear you have to order direct from a dealer and they can't be ordered online as easily as the big 5. Also how do parts prices compare?
I have a Sherco. I’ve only had to order OEM parts from a dealer to build up a stock of spares. There are multiple, small dealers that have excellent online inventory and ecommerce. Anything they dont have they can get from Sherco within a few days unless it has to come from France. Then its a week or so.

More than a few parts cross over. Front number plate is off a CRF, chain guide, brakes, levers are same as KTM, rear sprocket is old husky / gasgas, factory models with KYB forks share with other brands using KYB, etc.

I have a KTM next to it in the garage. The Sherco excels in a lot of places like hardware, overall componentry, and is equal or better in build quality. In terms of refinement, The KTM is straight to the point where the Sherco has a bit of excess. Small things like the wiring routing (not as clean or compact as a KTM), airbox layout (nothing beats a KTM IMO), and the use of a nut and washer instead of rivnuts for some fasteners (although not necessarily a bad thing) are where the Sherco is different. I do believe that a lot of that comes down to dollars and cents as KTM has a board of directors to satisfy where Sherco is a family owned company. Standard items on the Sherco (massive stator, radiator fan, skid plate, overflow tank, handguards) are extras on the KTM. And thats not including the KYBs or Akropovic exhaust that are stock.

Anyway, I would buy another in a heartbeat. If I could find a Sherco 125 at a decent price id replace my KTM with it.
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8/19/2020 7:53pm
Quality on the Beta/Tm are equal to or above the standard Japanese/Austrian brand. Where I see a difference is in the design(s). Some things are just quirky the best way to explain it. Nothing that I believe would negate taking a look at. Beta parts are easy to find and with a Ralf out in California the TM stuff is here within days.
Try one in person, most guys are very friendly and won’t mind sharing their thoughts.

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Johnny Depp
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8/19/2020 9:30pm
Beta is the new KTM. Huge model lineup and getting bigger. No apologies needed for performance or reliability. Beta's 2t has been the dominant bike in EnduroGP for several years now.

This is the wrong forum though, go to https://thumpertalk.com/forums/forum/353-beta-motorcycles/ and dig around. The Covid has stopped the demo tour of the last few years, find a dealer that's offering rides, most do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3fYQ24cgrk 2021 Beta 300rr unboxing. Bike Porn.
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ccullins
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8/20/2020 9:19am
Beta is the new KTM. Huge model lineup and getting bigger. No apologies needed for performance or reliability. Beta's 2t has been the dominant bike in...
Beta is the new KTM. Huge model lineup and getting bigger. No apologies needed for performance or reliability. Beta's 2t has been the dominant bike in EnduroGP for several years now.

This is the wrong forum though, go to https://thumpertalk.com/forums/forum/353-beta-motorcycles/ and dig around. The Covid has stopped the demo tour of the last few years, find a dealer that's offering rides, most do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3fYQ24cgrk 2021 Beta 300rr unboxing. Bike Porn.
I know you meant that in a good way, but I don’t think so. Unlike KTM, Beta is a family owned company that has been owned by that same family for over 100 years. No investors, Beta carries no debt and hasn’t had to be saved by the government of their country.



As for the rest of the about smaller Euro brands, I find no more “quirks” with Beta or TM than any other Japanese or Austrian brands.

To the original post, if you have like Honda’s you should really look at the TM. Their 300 MX model if that’s the type of bike your looking for is very fast, yet with the new motor starting in ‘19 still isn’t hard to ride. The aluminum frame is very well built. From my experience Honda has nice looking welds where you can see them, TM has great looking welds even in hidden places! Plus quality of things like the hardware and 2nd to none. Parts are never an issue, we have never wanted for anything. Having been to the TM USA head quarters and seen their parts supply I wouldn’t ever worry about that.
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jleews6
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8/20/2020 12:43pm
I have a good friend that sells Betas and they are great bikes. There is a local girl that i was training that put almost 200 hours on her first one and with nothing more than basic maintenance it never had anything go wrong with it. My son bought a 250RR and he just couldn't get used to it. he went back to Hondas and bought a new 450rx and after his first ride got off the bike with a big smile and said its nice to be back home on a Honda. He loves his 450rx.
rjs3118
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8/20/2020 12:53pm
It’s so hard to decide because obviously, this is a huge purchase. I know whatever I buy, I will wind up feeling like I should’ve gotten the other one.
2F4A
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8/20/2020 1:11pm
I would look at the shercos
I would stay away from the Shitcos
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Klinger
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8/20/2020 1:26pm
rjs3118 wrote:
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300...
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300 rx. Been a dire hard Honda guy since the cr80 days but these new models and manufacturers have me intrigued. How do the Betas and “boutique” brands compare to the big five? I have no intention of racing again just want to do some aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles. I realize they’re different bikes but was wondering how they compare quality wise, ride ability and durability with a Crf450 specifically. Thanks!!
Rjs, you are talking about two extremely different bikes. First off, we haven't ridden either the '21 Beta 300 RX or the '21 CRF450R(?) just to acknowledge that I'm talking about Betas and Hondas in general. Secondly, are you talking about at CRF450R? CRF450RX? CRF450X? Assuming that you are talking about the 'R' since you bring up the Beta RX (their first moto specific bike) I would suggest not getting a moto bike for "aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles." It sounds like to me you'd be better off with a cross country bike like the Honda CRF450RX or comparable from other brands.

Please check out our off-road shootouts to see how Betas in general compare to the Japanese bikes.
https://www.vitalmx.com/features/2020-Vital-MX-450-Off-Road-Shootout-En…

The chassis, suspension, and engine character are vastly different (not better or worse, just different) than the other bikes.

Quality and durability wise, I've never owned a Beta but I have spent at least some time with them, changing oil and air filters and checking normal things. Everything I dealt with was 100% the same as any other bike I've worked on. Nothing harder or easier and no surprises like things breaking or bolts rattling loose.
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rjs3118
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8/20/2020 1:34pm
rjs3118 wrote:
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300...
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300 rx. Been a dire hard Honda guy since the cr80 days but these new models and manufacturers have me intrigued. How do the Betas and “boutique” brands compare to the big five? I have no intention of racing again just want to do some aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles. I realize they’re different bikes but was wondering how they compare quality wise, ride ability and durability with a Crf450 specifically. Thanks!!
Klinger wrote:
Rjs, you are talking about two extremely different bikes. First off, we haven't ridden either the '21 Beta 300 RX or the '21 CRF450R(?) just to...
Rjs, you are talking about two extremely different bikes. First off, we haven't ridden either the '21 Beta 300 RX or the '21 CRF450R(?) just to acknowledge that I'm talking about Betas and Hondas in general. Secondly, are you talking about at CRF450R? CRF450RX? CRF450X? Assuming that you are talking about the 'R' since you bring up the Beta RX (their first moto specific bike) I would suggest not getting a moto bike for "aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles." It sounds like to me you'd be better off with a cross country bike like the Honda CRF450RX or comparable from other brands.

Please check out our off-road shootouts to see how Betas in general compare to the Japanese bikes.
https://www.vitalmx.com/features/2020-Vital-MX-450-Off-Road-Shootout-En…

The chassis, suspension, and engine character are vastly different (not better or worse, just different) than the other bikes.

Quality and durability wise, I've never owned a Beta but I have spent at least some time with them, changing oil and air filters and checking normal things. Everything I dealt with was 100% the same as any other bike I've worked on. Nothing harder or easier and no surprises like things breaking or bolts rattling loose.
Thanks for the info but I much prefer the feel of a MX bike even in those situations. It would be the 300cc 2 stroke versions of the Betas and TMs vs the CRF450R and the 4stroke equivalents in Beta and TM.
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Sc2
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8/20/2020 1:41pm
I would look at the shercos
2F4A wrote:
I would stay away from the Shitcos
How come?
ccullins
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8/20/2020 5:30pm
rjs3118 wrote:
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300...
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300 rx. Been a dire hard Honda guy since the cr80 days but these new models and manufacturers have me intrigued. How do the Betas and “boutique” brands compare to the big five? I have no intention of racing again just want to do some aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles. I realize they’re different bikes but was wondering how they compare quality wise, ride ability and durability with a Crf450 specifically. Thanks!!
Klinger wrote:
Rjs, you are talking about two extremely different bikes. First off, we haven't ridden either the '21 Beta 300 RX or the '21 CRF450R(?) just to...
Rjs, you are talking about two extremely different bikes. First off, we haven't ridden either the '21 Beta 300 RX or the '21 CRF450R(?) just to acknowledge that I'm talking about Betas and Hondas in general. Secondly, are you talking about at CRF450R? CRF450RX? CRF450X? Assuming that you are talking about the 'R' since you bring up the Beta RX (their first moto specific bike) I would suggest not getting a moto bike for "aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles." It sounds like to me you'd be better off with a cross country bike like the Honda CRF450RX or comparable from other brands.

Please check out our off-road shootouts to see how Betas in general compare to the Japanese bikes.
https://www.vitalmx.com/features/2020-Vital-MX-450-Off-Road-Shootout-En…

The chassis, suspension, and engine character are vastly different (not better or worse, just different) than the other bikes.

Quality and durability wise, I've never owned a Beta but I have spent at least some time with them, changing oil and air filters and checking normal things. Everything I dealt with was 100% the same as any other bike I've worked on. Nothing harder or easier and no surprises like things breaking or bolts rattling loose.
rjs3118 wrote:
Thanks for the info but I much prefer the feel of a MX bike even in those situations. It would be the 300cc 2 stroke versions...
Thanks for the info but I much prefer the feel of a MX bike even in those situations. It would be the 300cc 2 stroke versions of the Betas and TMs vs the CRF450R and the 4stroke equivalents in Beta and TM.
Looking at both 2t & 4t and want something a little bit different, yet still really good? How about TM’s 300 4t?
We had this exact bike before MXA did their review. I’ve said it before on posts, this is the best handling 4t I have ever ridden. Very light feeling and excellent cornering. I also really liked the way it’s built

The new version actually has a little different motor that is reported to be even better, it’s twin pipe.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nf1jwe6pLc
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bh
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8/20/2020 5:35pm
I would die for one of those tm 2 strokes.
1
8/20/2020 5:53pm
Had my Beta 300rr with those “crappy Sachs” on the Mx track last week and the TM 250F this week. Loved them both. Hard to pick just one....🤷🏻‍♂️😂

Ghost
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MXMattii
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8/20/2020 6:08pm
TM could be one of the big ones if it was only about the bike.
rjs3118
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8/20/2020 6:14pm
How is the TM 300 2stroke vs their MX 4stroke ?
Johnny Depp
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8/20/2020 8:06pm
rjs3118 wrote:
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300...
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300 rx. Been a dire hard Honda guy since the cr80 days but these new models and manufacturers have me intrigued. How do the Betas and “boutique” brands compare to the big five? I have no intention of racing again just want to do some aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles. I realize they’re different bikes but was wondering how they compare quality wise, ride ability and durability with a Crf450 specifically. Thanks!!
Klinger wrote:
Rjs, you are talking about two extremely different bikes. First off, we haven't ridden either the '21 Beta 300 RX or the '21 CRF450R(?) just to...
Rjs, you are talking about two extremely different bikes. First off, we haven't ridden either the '21 Beta 300 RX or the '21 CRF450R(?) just to acknowledge that I'm talking about Betas and Hondas in general. Secondly, are you talking about at CRF450R? CRF450RX? CRF450X? Assuming that you are talking about the 'R' since you bring up the Beta RX (their first moto specific bike) I would suggest not getting a moto bike for "aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles." It sounds like to me you'd be better off with a cross country bike like the Honda CRF450RX or comparable from other brands.

Please check out our off-road shootouts to see how Betas in general compare to the Japanese bikes.
https://www.vitalmx.com/features/2020-Vital-MX-450-Off-Road-Shootout-En…

The chassis, suspension, and engine character are vastly different (not better or worse, just different) than the other bikes.

Quality and durability wise, I've never owned a Beta but I have spent at least some time with them, changing oil and air filters and checking normal things. Everything I dealt with was 100% the same as any other bike I've worked on. Nothing harder or easier and no surprises like things breaking or bolts rattling loose.
rjs3118 wrote:
Thanks for the info but I much prefer the feel of a MX bike even in those situations. It would be the 300cc 2 stroke versions...
Thanks for the info but I much prefer the feel of a MX bike even in those situations. It would be the 300cc 2 stroke versions of the Betas and TMs vs the CRF450R and the 4stroke equivalents in Beta and TM.
If you want the new Honda, you’ll need to commit quickly or they will be gone.
If you want to have an RX or Race Edition Beta, that will require some waiting.
8/20/2020 8:56pm
rjs3118 wrote:
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300...
Trying to decide my next and first brand new bike purchase. Was in love with the 2021 Crf450 until I saw the new 2021 Beta 300 rx. Been a dire hard Honda guy since the cr80 days but these new models and manufacturers have me intrigued. How do the Betas and “boutique” brands compare to the big five? I have no intention of racing again just want to do some aggressive trail riding, having fun at a track and some hare scrambles. I realize they’re different bikes but was wondering how they compare quality wise, ride ability and durability with a Crf450 specifically. Thanks!!
Get yourself a Sherco 300 SE-F Factory and never look back. 500 SE-F Factory is also a great bike if you want more grunt.
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Lasse
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8/20/2020 9:56pm
rjs3118 wrote:
How is the TM 300 2stroke vs their MX 4stroke ?
I've had the MX125, MX250FI twin and MX300
Indy mxer
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8/21/2020 4:29am
My brother is a Polaris/Kaw/TM dealer. He was riding a 20 KX 250 but now rides a TM 300 4 stroke. He really likes it.
He has his grandson on a TM 250 4 stroke and he seems to do well on it.
They're a bit pricey, but well built, trick bikes. Definitely not for everyone, and he doesn't sell a lot of them but really nice bikes none the less.

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