Hot Rods Crankshaft Catastrophic Failure (KTM 150 SX 2013)

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8/30/2017 1:45 PM

That's crazy to hear this about hotrods. I have a quad that I do some harescramble racing with and all we use is hotrods. So many people use them in at mktors and don't have any issues. Weird how they fail so badly in bikes

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2011 Yamaha YZ 250 -MX
1996 Yamaha Banshee 350 -Trails
1982 Chevy S10
2005 Pontiac GTO -451rwhp

8/30/2017 1:59 PM

Glad it happened coming out of a corner instead of over whoops or a face of a jump.

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8/30/2017 2:48 PM

Motofinne wrote:

That sucks... Parting the bike out might be the best thing to do if you can't find a complete engine.

Thats about the dumbest thing I ever heard, I dont care if my bikes engine split down the center a bike that new should be repaired not parted.

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8/30/2017 2:56 PM

Hello, my name is Steve and I am the Customer Service Manager for C&E Companies, as well as several other companies within the Arrowhead Powersports group. I was recently alerted to this post and wanted to address it personally.

Hot Rods and the rest of the companies within Arrowhead Powersports pride ourselves on the quality of our products. Making sure that we are producing the best and most reliable product we can is definitely the most important aspect within our manufacturing processes. Without going into great detail, I can assure you that we take great steps to ensure that we are producing the best possible products we can. We invest a large sum of money into high tech, precision equipment to help us achieve that goal. All of our products undergo very detailed and stringent manufacturing and quality assurance processes. Those processes and our products are constantly reviewed to ensure we are using the most effective and up to date methods of manufacturing and quality inspection.

JMX82, please contact us at support@pivotworks.com so that we can discuss this matter.

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8/30/2017 3:30 PM

scooter5002 wrote:

Clearly, more than enough have issues, and these are just the ones we know about. This is not the only forum where I've seen ...more

OEM have problems from time to time too I think it was 2009 KTM had a bunch of bad cranks the good thing was they would replace everything, the bad thing was it took 2 months to get everything fixed . at the time we only had one bike it kind of wrecked or whole season. At least from the above post it looks like the OP is going to get some help .Photo

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8/30/2017 3:32 PM

Definetly electrical

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8/30/2017 3:48 PM

Would imagine KTM was quite anxious to take care of people with failures, when they were so focused on gaining market share. Glad they took care of you.

As I recall, Yamaha had a valve issue some years ago in their 250F's, and Honda had bad cranks in the 95 CR250's.
I believe they stood behind their products as well. If it's mechanical, it can fail. Just seem to hear a lot of bad stories on bad Hot Rods cranks. Maybe the OP will get some help with his situation.

A bad crank is how I came to own my '07 450 Zook. Previous owner rebuilt the motor, because he wanted to. Put a Wiseco crank in it, it locked up with less than an hour in it, I believe. Wiseco refused to do anything for him. Think you can put him down as a former customer, he was so mad he went out and bought another bike.

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8/30/2017 4:17 PM

twotwosix wrote:

And for those who don't know. The Company is one big group these days. All of the following brands are under the same ...more

scooter5002 wrote:

Yes, I knew that, and I also bought an All Balls linkage kit. Seals would NOT fit into their respective locations, period. ...more

I bought the All Balls linkage kit earlier this summer for my 2013 KTM and the seals would not fit either.

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8/30/2017 4:48 PM

Steve D wrote:

Hello, my name is Steve and I am the Customer Service Manager for C&E Companies, as well as several other companies within ...more

Umm......"industry folk" don't read Vital. So STFU.....

I mean welcome! Photo

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RTFM & AYFV

8/30/2017 5:20 PM

At least there is a positive side to this post.

The four stroke photos in this thread, those guys are screwed and done riding forever.

The two stroke photos, I've read on here how when a two stroke blows up it only costs you $173 to fix it and it can be done in 32 minutes. All is good.

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8/30/2017 5:41 PM

rmgsxr wrote:

At least there is a positive side to this post.

The four stroke photos in this thread, those guys are screwed and done ...more

32 min , 2 stroke crank replacement ? new world record my friend

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8/30/2017 5:41 PM

so what is the general thought on carrillo rods and je pistons? asking for a friendwhistling

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If I'm healthy enough to complain. I shouldn't be complaining.

8/30/2017 5:44 PM

teamchrist wrote:

Wrenchrabbit/ Vertex, hot rods, hot cams, pivot works. I have used their products for years. All of them. I have never had a ...more

Same here...I have tons of hours on most of the stuff you listed and never an issue.

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8/30/2017 6:08 PM

I think CE stuff is hit and miss. More miss and better off going OEM.

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8/30/2017 6:08 PM

PTshox wrote:

Folks, it's cheaper to just rebuild the stock crank when if fails. Call Ken Oconner racing. He does this for a reasonable fee ...more

Built 100s of engines. Only time had issues was Wiseco crank, never Hotrod or OEM. But parts break. ***O, Pro-X is owned by Wiseco***

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8/30/2017 6:10 PM

Seen an 06 YZ125 with stock crank do the exact same thing. I used Hot Rods cranks on a few bikes & have had good luck with them.

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8/30/2017 6:32 PM

JMX82 wrote:

Cylinder is gone too. It has a crack in the cylinder wall and I don't think it can be saved

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Nonsense, send it to millinium technologies, they work wonders.

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8/30/2017 6:54 PM

rmgsxr wrote:

At least there is a positive side to this post.

The four stroke photos in this thread, those guys are screwed and done ...more

Depends on what you mean by " blown up ". But yes....there is a huge difference in price.

Throw in a top end on your 2 stroke for about $200.00 or less. Need to do the 4 stroke?....hope you're doing more than just the piston and rings....you're gonna need it.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

8/30/2017 7:02 PM

Hot Rods cranks need to be balanced out of the box, the rod is made in the USA believe it or not. I would not hesitate to use a balanced hot rods crank with OE bearings. Chinese bearings are very hit or miss.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

8/30/2017 7:42 PM

Go OEM! If you cant afford OEM, then wait a little longer to save up for it.

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8/30/2017 8:29 PM

BobPA wrote:

Hot Rods cranks need to be balanced out of the box, the rod is made in the USA believe it or not. I would not hesitate to use ...more

I could be wrong but I thought I read on millinium technologies website or somewhere you can't balance a crank. You can only do you for a specific narrow RPM range which is of little value.

I could be wrong on that.

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8/30/2017 9:04 PM

BobPA wrote:

Hot Rods cranks need to be balanced out of the box, the rod is made in the USA believe it or not. I would not hesitate to use ...more

Rockinar wrote:

I could be wrong but I thought I read on millinium technologies website or somewhere you can't balance a crank. You can only ...more

You are not wrong. I guess I should have said you should have the rotating assembly balanced. When you send a "crank" out to be balanced you must include the piston, rings, clips, bearing etc. Crankworks has always been good with my stuff.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

8/30/2017 10:03 PM

m.hardesty16 wrote:

Nonsense, send it to millinium technologies, they work wonders.

I live in Finland and I think shipping the cylinder to US to be repaired would cost me more than getting a new cylinder

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8/30/2017 11:17 PM

I wouldn't put that crap in my bike. Just not worth it to me.
Last year I put a new OEM crank in a Kawasaki. The crank was dead on.
Against my advice, a buddy bought a hot rods crank for his bike. It was way off out the box. They just don't match OEM in quality and tolerances.
I also tried one of their fork overhaul kits.. Junk! Avoid if you can is my advice.

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"Nothing happens until something moves"

8/31/2017 12:02 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/31/2017 12:04 AM

rmgsxr wrote:

At least there is a positive side to this post.

The four stroke photos in this thread, those guys are screwed and done ...more

Nope rebuild that bike and i do have a YZ125 devil

Rebuilding was cheaper than parting out or buying a new engine.
Even the blown engine was fixed for less than 1500 USD, found a case on ebay for less than 200$.
The 1500 $ included a Hinson clutch (slighlty used) as well.

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I used a crankshaft and Cylinder/Piston from Hot-Rods, Pivot Works and Vertex. So far no issues and everything looks fine.

When i bought those 2 bikes they where blown already.
What was interesting both engines had the same failure. KXF and CRF
Broken Con Rod and broken Cylinder almost on the same place.
I have now idea how the previous owner used and serviced the bikes.
Based on what i found it might not be perfectly serviced.

However it is interesting that the Con Rod seems to break at the same area even here with the 2 stroke.
When i looked at my pictures from the broken Con Rod it looked like that a crack in the Con Rod was there a long time.

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8/31/2017 4:47 AM

Installation error may play a part in some of these failures, mix ratios etc. Hot rods used to be in every other bike on the track bitd, not sure what would have changed since then. Place of manufacturing? I've got a hot rods kit currently no problems. People used to say get rid of that oem crank and drop a hot rods in there.

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8/31/2017 4:55 AM

Motofinne wrote:

That sucks... Parting the bike out might be the best thing to do if you can't find a complete engine.

m.hardesty16 wrote:

Thats about the dumbest thing I ever heard, I dont care if my bikes engine split down the center a bike that new should be ...more

Financially it might, if he can't find an complete used engine in good condition.

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8/31/2017 7:45 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/31/2017 8:01 AM

Mx746 wrote:

Installation error may play a part in some of these failures, mix ratios etc. Hot rods used to be in every other bike on the ...more

Funny you mention that about the popularity of Hot Rods cranks...

I bought a couple CR125's (05' and 07') over the past year or two. Both had Hot Rods in them. They have since been replaced with OEM because I rebuilt both engines/transmissions. Both Hot Rods cranks were in good shape/spec'd good and the bikes ran fine prior to the rebuilds. I just replaced them due to unknown hours.

I agree that installation is crucial. I rig up simple setups to mimic the Honda service manual technique so I only exert pressure on the inner crank bearing race during installation, etc. Also, the crank bearing seals can be driven in too far and the crank bearings can be starved of premix and burn them up. I use a large washer that is larger than the seal recess for the final seating.

Yes, 2-strokes are simple, but a lot can go wrong if not careful.



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8/31/2017 8:41 AM

What are the failures of Hot Rod cranks? The rods snapping and the pins snapping? Does Hot Rods make their own stuff or is someone else making it.

I've used Hot Rods crank bearings, but figured those were outsourced by someone else.

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10/9/2017 1:54 AM

I contacted Steve D from C&E Holdings and he suggested that I send all damaged parts to them for evaluation. They provided me a shipping label that I could send parts without paying shipping fees. After that I proceeded to pack broken parts in a box and got them shipped to US. It took few weeks for shipment to arrive in the US.

After parts reached US C&E Holdings headquarters their engineers started to evaluating them. They came to conclusion that my piston has had a light contact to cylinder head and eventually that caused crankshaft to break. I should have checked squish clearance when I rebuilt the engine to prevent that from happening.

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As a good will gesture they sent me a full Wrench Rabbit rebuild kit for my bike and it arrived here on Friday.

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I can't thank enough Steve to taking interest on my case and providing me Wrench Rabbit kit for rebuilding the engine. After this experience I'm pretty confident about using their products in the future rebuilds.

I will be starting topic about rebuilding the bike in the Bike Builds section once I have found good set of engine cases and cylinder


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