Honda rear end kicking up.

Its probably the

SETUP
E
T
U
P

Gasjer never crashes like that.

He framed the roller and it grabbed so he went flying

chase414 wrote:

He framed the roller and it grabbed so he went flying

X2. I just saw the crash and saw the frame stick in the ground. It would have happened to him on any bike. Can't do much when the frame and linkage dig in to the ground. Your momentum and body going forward carries the bike over and there's no saving it at that point.

mbha wrote:

Just watched Tim Gajser. I can't recall ever so many similar crashes in one season by one brand as the rear on theses Hondas kicking the rear up throwing the rider over the bars. KR's crash and the a number of similar crashes. I think something must be wrong with the rear shock.

doesn't look good for the new bike no matter how you slice it.

It's funny how people try to put their own spin on it. These top pros on the best equip. any of the manufacturers can provide & yet they still crash. Imagine how is that possible...
I wonder if human error could be a possibility on a crash... Just trying to think outside the box...

At some point the question raises. Ken Roczen crashes exactly in the same manner in MEC, then his horrible crash. Tim Gajser had the rear kick up on him on several occations. In Latvia and today in Assen to mention a few. It looks similar every time. This is a problem that has been around before. The rear packing up, then shoots out. I remember reading that Ricky Carmichael said to his mechanic that what ever you do, don't have the rear kicking back at me. And that's what I see happening over and over again.

Think about it for a minute or two. Do you really think a big Corp like Honda would not go through vigorous safety sessions when designing & developing their mx bikes ? This sport is dangerous enough & would think Honda would take every precaution necessary / possible to ensure the safety of a consumer.
Rider error or suspension set up are mostly the culprit of crashes you see from the top pros to the weekend warrior.

As silly as this thread is, considering that Gajser buried the frame, I'll bite.

I'm confused. You talk about Honda's kicking up, but then say you think something is wrong with the shock. Last I checked, the shock isn't made by Honda. So which is it, the new bike or the shock?

I know a guy with a fair amount of top level experienece who believes it's a problem. I believe it's just bad timing and coincidence. He's a KTM guy and I'm a Honda guy so we argue about all the time since Kenny's big dinga. Is the vital jury still out on this one?

A friend in Florida just purchased a new one and he said he can't hardly turn the bike yet, the front end knifes and the rear end wants to come around.

Look at Kennys crash again and you should realize it could have/would have happened on any bike.

I don't think people give enough credit to supercross riders on how tight/precise those rhythm sections need to be ridden.

seth505 wrote:

Look at Kennys crash again and you should realize it could have/would have happened on any bike.

I don't think people give enough credit to supercross riders on how tight/precise those rhythm sections need to be ridden.

I kind of disagree. Not that it is Honda-specific or anything, but I've heard Kenny hates the super dead rear end feel that most American supercross riders prefer.

And obviously an extremely overdamped rear end is not going to have as much buck as Kenny's livelier, softer setup. But that's not a Honda thing, just a rider preference/setup thing.

seth505 wrote:

Look at Kennys crash again and you should realize it could have/would have happened on any bike.

I don't think people give enough credit to supercross riders on how tight/precise those rhythm sections need to be ridden.

I've actually thought a lot of Kenny's crash was him maybe running his suspension a bit softer which he is known to do. If you watch he almost crashed the exact same a lap or two before. Even on the Suzuki in 2015 I believe his back end kicked up on him and he ended up hitting the wall of the stadium. (I'm not 100% sure if that was the case but I seem to remember it that way). Then obviously his MEC crash was very similar. IMO 2 very similar crashes in just double as many events isn't just a coincidence.

jorgechavez wrote:

I've actually thought a lot of Kenny's crash was him maybe running his suspension a bit softer which he is known to do. If you watch he almost crashed the exact same a lap or two before. Even on the Suzuki in 2015 I believe his back end kicked up on him and he ended up hitting the wall of the stadium. (I'm not 100% sure if that was the case but I seem to remember it that way). Then obviously his MEC crash was very similar. IMO 2 very similar crashes in just double as many events isn't just a coincidence.

Yeah. I was just Googling for some discussion on his softer, less-damped setup and here is a MXA take on the rear end of his RMZ setup:

As for the shock, the rear end had an extremely loose feel. Most AMA Professionals prefer a dead sensation in the rear. Kenny’s shock setup was almost like having a blown-out shock; it moved around that much in the rear. RCH admits that they fought Kenny over this shock setup for more than a year because they felt it was the opposite of what it should be. Over time, however, they learned that the way Kenny rode the bike made what was wrong in their eyes right in his.

Gajser cased.

The end.

kkawboy14 wrote:

A friend in Florida just purchased a new one and he said he can't hardly turn the bike yet, the front end knifes and the rear end wants to come around.

Sounds like your friend can't ride

seth505 wrote:

Look at Kennys crash again and you should realize it could have/would have happened on any bike.

I don't think people give enough credit to supercross riders on how tight/precise those rhythm sections need to be ridden.

Dirty Points wrote:

I kind of disagree. Not that it is Honda-specific or anything, but I've heard Kenny hates the super dead rear end feel that most American supercross riders prefer.

And obviously an extremely overdamped rear end is not going to have as much buck as Kenny's livelier, softer setup. But that's not a Honda thing, just a rider preference/setup thing.

Ya, agreed. I wasn't trying to say it was 100% rider error but just not Honda specific. Maybe even had to do more with setup than rider but I remember feeling like something bad was coming as he looked off before that big wreck (Kenny).

kkawboy14 wrote:

A friend in Florida just purchased a new one and he said he can't hardly turn the bike yet, the front end knifes and the rear end wants to come around.

Johnny Ringo wrote:

Sounds like your friend can't ride

He's the current points leader in the Fall series D class

Robgvx wrote:

Gajser cased.

The end.

I see him back on the bike hitting the next small jump like everybody does all the time in all races in both AMA and GP. And the rear just launches. And I can't see how he did it before several times and Kenny making the same mistake twice in 3 races is explained by your theory.

kkawboy14 wrote:

A friend in Florida just purchased a new one and he said he can't hardly turn the bike yet, the front end knifes and the rear end wants to come around.

Johnny Ringo wrote:

Sounds like your friend can't ride

He's about the same as Gajser!

kkawboy14 wrote:

A friend in Florida just purchased a new one and he said he can't hardly turn the bike yet, the front end knifes and the rear end wants to come around.

Perhaps your friend should do some suspension work and then possibly learn how to ride.

kkawboy14 wrote:

A friend in Florida just purchased a new one and he said he can't hardly turn the bike yet, the front end knifes and the rear end wants to come around.

jtiger12 wrote:

Perhaps your friend should do some suspension work and then possibly learn how to ride.

Couldnt possibly be the rider bro, MX is 90% bike and 10% rider

and also 100% SETUP

mbha wrote:

Just watched Tim Gajser. I can't recall ever so many similar crashes in one season by one brand as the rear on theses Hondas kicking the rear up throwing the rider over the bars. KR's crash and the a number of similar crashes. I think something must be wrong with the rear shock.

I'm glad your trolling, and not serious

In before this goes to Dumbgeon, so a rider cases the bike in a roller (likely due to timing on his part) and suddenly its because Honda have rear end issues, and another example is Kenny's crash, a crash that most people in the know was rider error.

Some real bright people here....2 crashes in one year = bike problem

H4L wrote:

It's funny how people try to put their own spin on it. These top pros on the best equip. any of the manufacturers can provide & yet they still crash. Imagine how is that possible...
I wonder if human error could be a possibility on a crash... Just trying to think outside the box...

lol exactly

kkawboy14 wrote:

A friend in Florida just purchased a new one and he said he can't hardly turn the bike yet, the front end knifes and the rear end wants to come around.

Will cut your friend some slack, as it's obvious he hasn't ridden much, and never set up a dirt bike

H4L wrote:

Think about it for a minute or two. Do you really think a big Corp like Honda would not go through vigorous safety sessions when designing & developing their mx bikes ? This sport is dangerous enough & would think Honda would take every precaution necessary / possible to ensure the safety of a consumer.
Rider error or suspension set up are mostly the culprit of crashes you see from the top pros to the weekend warrior.

This is exactly the reason why Honda released the atrocious first generation aluminum CR250 frame in 1997. They were so worried about the frame breaking at the steering head and generally not being strong enough that it was over-designed into a foul handling rigid brick of solid concrete.
Fast forward 20 years and what do we see? A few KTM's cracking at the steering head.....

kkawboy14 wrote:

A friend in Florida just purchased a new one and he said he can't hardly turn the bike yet, the front end knifes and the rear end wants to come around.

NeedMoto wrote:

Will cut your friend some slack, as it's obvious he hasn't ridden much, and never set up a dirt bike

Exactly! Maybe these Pros should learn to set up a bike also?