Honda - don't win Sunday, still sell Monday

Related:
Create New Tag

7/27/2014 5:24 PM

I've seen some angst among the Honda faithful about the fact that Honda doesn't seem to care about winning championships anymore, vis-a-vis the situation with Tomac rumoured to be leaving Honda to go to Kawasaki. Certainly Honda hasn't won a 450 class title since RC left; I think the closest efforts would be KW in '08 SX, and Reedy in '11 SX (albeit on a satellite team). It's a far cry from their early years - Bailey & co, MC, RC.

I'm thinking that Honda is seeing the money involved in buying a championship these days just isn't worth it. Maybe winning sometimes is sufficient; maybe it's just the fact that they're racing is good enough to sell for them. It's probably fair to also say that they might still be riding the legacy of their success in the '80's, '90's and early 2000's.

Certainly if you look at the eight years or so between RC leaving Honda and RC starting to win titles, Suzuki was easily the most successful 450 bike, but it didn't seem to help them much commercially.

KTM on the other hand is building their brand (in the US at least) so maybe winning for them is vital at this point.

What do you think - is winning on Sunday still essential for selling on Monday?

|

7/27/2014 5:26 PM

Ktm is coming on strong. Still not quite up there with red. Yamaha is making a big surge around here. A ton of blue is seen at the tracks. That said, I would say red, blue, green followed by orange them yellow as far as amount of bikes in the St. Louis area.

|

7/27/2014 6:26 PM

They race on Saturday now, so no.

I think Honda has a good enough reputation to not need a champion. Look how many privateers they had running 250's, and those guy pay them instead of the other way around!

|

7/27/2014 6:31 PM

sea of orange at our tracks.

|

7/27/2014 6:32 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/27/2014 6:32 PM

I think it had to become socially acceptable to have a KTM. There was a while where they were scoffed at and written off (rightfully so sometimes) in terms of competitive equipment. I think winning has solved that. Go to a local race. They're 40% of the big bikes.

|

Washed up moto and enduro weekend warrior.

7/27/2014 6:33 PM

dboivin wrote:

sea of orange at our tracks.

Sea of green and red at mine.

KTM is getting there though.

|

7/27/2014 6:39 PM

Honda gets a pass, because they are Honda. It means less to them than anyone in the show room imo. It was crucial for KTM to win and its paid off in the show room. Suzuki seems to be the one that can't turn wins into increased sales for whatever reason. The best selling 450 in the US is the Kawasaki btw so Poto has sold bikes for them.

|

7/27/2014 7:02 PM

ktm is getting rather big here as well. still a lot of green but ktm is getting up there.

|

7/27/2014 7:10 PM

I guess Honda reliability and dealer/parts network is also a factor. I agree that winning does not mean you suddenly becomes the market leader, everyone is sensible to know that factory bikes are VERY different to the bike you buy off the showroom floor. Also Honda builds a 450 that is for the masses, not for pros only, and they make no apology for that... both the Yammie and Kawi are more pro orientated .... in my opinion

If KTM did not make two strokes then the sea of orange would be a lake

|

Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

7/27/2014 7:12 PM

it's a sea of orange at the two spots I normally ride... and a sea of orange when I am cruising down the highway and see bikes in the back of trucks/trailers...

|

www.bettercallsaul.com
Die Antwoord

7/27/2014 7:59 PM

Win on Saturday or Sunday hasn't mattered in quite some time . Zook was winning everything with RC yet you didn't see much yellow out there because their bike don't hold up. Honda's hold up well and don't bring the valve shit up in the earlier models I know guys with 150 hrs and they never changed the plug out .

|

7/27/2014 8:21 PM

MxKing809 wrote:

I think it had to become socially acceptable to have a KTM. There was a while where they were scoffed at and written off ...more

I think this is accurate.

I was on vacation northwest of Chicago a few weeks ago and went to a local race and it was for sure 40% orange, red/green/blue equal, yellow only a few.

My local track is red/blue mostly, then green, orange, only a couple yellow. Regular weekend warrior guys like the quality of Honda and the reliability of Yamaha. I think they are all good.

|

7/27/2014 8:37 PM

Look for Husky sales to be on the rise in the next few years too if they can get on the same track as KTM

|

👍

7/27/2014 8:47 PM

rawdawgin wrote:

Look for Husky sales to be on the rise in the next few years too if they can get on the same track as KTM

Yeah, I mean who doesn't want to be a ktm rider but just a little more different.

|

7/27/2014 8:54 PM

I like to be different, that's why I still run a two stroke. I have been interested in the 350SX for my first four stroke and now it's all I see are KTM's everywhere!!!!

Dang it what's a guy to do?

|

Don’t piss off the old people - the older they get the less “life in prison” is a deterrent for them!

2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250

7/27/2014 9:03 PM

Just because they don't win championships doesn't mean they're not good bikes. I rode a 2013 CRF450 earlier in the year and it probably was the best (albeit newest) bike I've ridden. Plus, IMO, Honda have very easy engines to work on and parts are easily sourced and relatively cheap. And of course Honda has a good reputation for quality. Nonetheless, in Australia at least, Yamaha seems to be the most popular brand when I visit tracks. Husky is also rising (even before the KTM buyout). FYI Honda has the most sales in Australia though, mainly due to the CT110 sales (now Super Cub sales) to Australia Post.

|

7/27/2014 9:23 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/27/2014 9:23 PM

rawdawgin wrote:

Look for Husky sales to be on the rise in the next few years too if they can get on the same track as KTM

Honda probably has stronger brand equity in the off road motorcycle market than any other manufacturer. Nobody scoffs at an old Trail 70 simply "because it's a Honda".... and if you do please do not talk to me, because you sir are an asshole.

|

Positively, absolutely 110% obsessed with anything MOTO.

7/28/2014 4:07 AM

bvm111 wrote:

I like to be different, that's why I still run a two stroke. I have been interested in the 350SX for my first four stroke and ...more

Husky 350 cool

|

7/28/2014 4:48 AM

kiwifan wrote:

I guess Honda reliability and dealer/parts network is also a factor. I agree that winning does not mean you suddenly becomes ...more

Wasn't there a period of Hondas in the late 2000s that were known to float valves regularly? I've never owned a Honda but have 2 buddies that have owned them. A 250 and a 450. Both were about a pain in the ass to start every time we rode. I've ridden Yamaha and I don't know if I've gotten lucky or if Yamaha is that much better about starting but I rarely have to kick more than twice to get it to start. Unless I forget to take the butt plug out. . . Happens every other time.

|

7/28/2014 5:34 AM

I have purchased 6 new Honda's since 2000. I am switching to KTM. Just put a deposit on 2015 SXF450. The main reason is Honda is letting Tomac leave. Haha. Just kidding. The whole win on Sunday sell on Monday thing is a farce. I'm switching because the KTM is a better bike.

|

7/28/2014 5:46 AM

I think Honda makes enough money on bike sales that they don't need to have an RV or Dungey winning championships. Also, consider this: Factory Honda's riders may not always be 450 class championship material, but typically they are good dudes with a large fan base who are great at PR. Think about it...Canard, Tomac, Short, WIndham, Preston, McGrath (when he came back in '05), etc.
Hondas have a reputation for being proven, reliable bikes. I've owned Honda's since I first started riding. The next dirtbike I buy will probably be a Honda. Not because the other brands are bad, but because I Know the Honda will be solid.

|

7/28/2014 6:02 AM

mxdude105 wrote:

I think Honda makes enough money on bike sales that they don't need to have an RV or Dungey winning championships. Also, ...more

That's a good point about Honda. They are faithful to their riders. Canard, Hahn and Windham are all good recent examples of guys that went through a streak of injuries but came back and it paid for Honda to keep them. I will say that they surpass the other Jap bikes in that department.

|

7/28/2014 6:44 AM

kiwifan wrote:

I guess Honda reliability and dealer/parts network is also a factor. I agree that winning does not mean you suddenly becomes ...more

IWreckALot wrote:

Wasn't there a period of Hondas in the late 2000s that were known to float valves regularly? I've never owned a Honda but have ...more

Haha, haven't we all! It's real embarrassing when you start cussing and then your 6 year old son says, "do you need to take that orange thing out?"

|



7/28/2014 6:48 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/28/2014 6:49 AM

In regards to bike sales I think it boils down to what your first bike is that you loved and then brand loyalty. For instance, first bike was a cr125, wasnt a fan, bought a yamaha yz250f after, was reliable, fun to ride, loved it, now Im a yamaha junkie and swear by blue, my 14 being my 3rd one. I think this is the case for alot of guys, once you find that brand your usually a repeat customer. As far as tracks here in the NE, everyone is sold on Hondas and then Kawi's. Though it was lonely in the blue trenches for awhile the new bikes have made some steam and seeing more and more of them. Love mine personally even with the shift stopper and water pump impeller issues initially.

|

"Asking this question here is analogous to going to a KrispyKreme store and asking the patrons if you should have a doughnut."-NotCore

7/28/2014 6:51 AM

i think this guy has something to do with it..

Photo

|

7/28/2014 8:58 AM

IWreckALot wrote:

Wasn't there a period of Hondas in the late 2000s that were known to float valves regularly? I've never owned a Honda but have ...more

Valve float is catastrophic...they had a valve seat issue.

|

Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

7/28/2014 6:44 PM

so what kind of hours do you guys have on your 13-14 hondas? 250 and 450.

|

If I'm healthy enough to complain. I shouldn't be complaining.

7/29/2014 12:37 AM

I have over 150 on my 2010. Still looks good. My brother has 50 hours on his new KTM, and If you put our bikes side by side, I bet you would think mine has less hours.

I think Honda's just hold up better over time. Every bolt on a KTM looks hammered and rusted after 1/2 season.

|

-streets-

7/29/2014 1:02 AM

swedishfishmx wrote:

I have over 150 on my 2010. Still looks good. My brother has 50 hours on his new KTM, and If you put our bikes side by side, I ...more

I went from KTM to Honda, and started winning races....the KTM was good, sure has more HP than the Honda, but is it faster for me? No. I go faster on the Honda, and its reliable (KTM broke down in 3 races) and I maintain my bikes a factory mechanic....plus as above they are great to work on....some moan about the twin pipes, I have had a couple of crashes but never bent the exhausts, one crash on my KTM bent the exhaust (becasue they poke out further is my guess)...or it was bad luck....its quieter than the KTM and parts are readily available....



|

Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

7/29/2014 1:08 AM

I think the reputation of the CRF450 being THE BIKE to own is still playing a part. Back in the mid 2000s, the CRF was the most pooular bike you saw being ridden here in socal. Glen Helen was full of them. Even the local pros mostly rode them unless they worked for a Yamaha shop, knew someone who did, or were helped by a different shop.

|

"What happens to your hands when you crash?"
"I put my hands up real quick to protect my sunglasses"