Hill's fastest Lap at A2 matched Roczen's

twotwosix
Profile picture for user twotwosix
Posts
1852
Joined
9/29/2016
Location
TN US
twotwosix
According to RX, Justin Hill and Ken Roczen were the fastest riders in their respective classes on Saturday night. It's pretty neat that Hill matched Kenny's best of a 56.2... Given the track was a little smoother, but still impressive.

http://racerxonline.com/2017/01/24/sign-of-the-lap-times-anaheim-2

450SX Class Lap Times

Finish - Best Lap - In Lap - Rider
22 - 56.259 - 5 - Ken Roczen
3 - 56.368 - 8 - Cole Seely
1 - 56.430 - 6 - Ryan Dungey

250SX Class Lap Times

Finish - Best Lap - In Lap - Rider
1 - 56.269 - 2 - Justin Hill
2 - 57.091 - 4 - Aaron Plessinger
3 - 57.344 - 4 - Shane McElrath

|
Ted722
Profile picture for user Ted722
Posts
4486
Joined
9/21/2011
Location
Sacramento, CA US
Ted722 1/24/2017 5:32pm
1/24/2017 5:32pm Edited Date/Time 1/24/2017 5:34pm
Impressive. Agree, might look a little different if the 450's Main was before the 250's.
kzizok
Profile picture for user kzizok
Posts
8393
Joined
10/19/2010
Location
AS US
Fantasy
2034th
kzizok 1/24/2017 5:46pm
1/24/2017 5:46pm
Yeah, I think anyone around this sport long enough knows that comparing lap times like that can be deceiving. In other words, direct comparisons aren't really possible and dont put too much stock in them. However, ballpark findings can be used as trends to consider.

To me, I think it helps reinforce the idea that 450's may be too much.
Jackace
Profile picture for user Jackace
Posts
51
Joined
5/4/2015
Location
Boise, ID US
Jackace 1/24/2017 7:34pm
1/24/2017 7:34pm
kzizok wrote:
Yeah, I think anyone around this sport long enough knows that comparing lap times like that can be deceiving. In other words, direct comparisons aren't really...
Yeah, I think anyone around this sport long enough knows that comparing lap times like that can be deceiving. In other words, direct comparisons aren't really possible and dont put too much stock in them. However, ballpark findings can be used as trends to consider.

To me, I think it helps reinforce the idea that 450's may be too much.
I agree with you on the 450s just being too much.
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
Johnny Depp 1/24/2017 7:37pm
1/24/2017 7:37pm
To me it says we are being sold a bill of goods having 2 classes.

The Shop

See All »
gpnewhouse 1/24/2017 9:19pm
1/24/2017 9:19pm
kzizok wrote:
Yeah, I think anyone around this sport long enough knows that comparing lap times like that can be deceiving. In other words, direct comparisons aren't really...
Yeah, I think anyone around this sport long enough knows that comparing lap times like that can be deceiving. In other words, direct comparisons aren't really possible and dont put too much stock in them. However, ballpark findings can be used as trends to consider.

To me, I think it helps reinforce the idea that 450's may be too much.
Jackace wrote:
I agree with you on the 450s just being too much.
Are the 450s too much though or are the 250fs too much?

Shouldn't the entry class be an entry class? Some of the factory 250fs now are making as much or more power than the factory 250 two strokes from ten/fifteen years ago, it would have been madness back then for a 16 year old to jump straight to the 250 two stroke but now it's what's expected of them.

The GP's realised this and so we have the EMX 125 series, the AMA needs to do something too.
jeffro503
Profile picture for user jeffro503
Posts
27442
Joined
7/22/2007
Location
St Helens, OR US
jeffro503 1/24/2017 9:20pm
1/24/2017 9:20pm
I agree the 450 is too much for indoors , but for the most part , these guys make a 450 shred around a track. The thing is , we need two different classes. Unless the entire SX daily race is completely re-written......lots of ideas could pop up here if we think about it hard enough.

For my own selfish reasons , I'd like to see something in size in between a 450 and 250. Like a 350 ( Not a KTM 350 because those damn things put out like 58hp at the rear wheel. ).......something like a 50-55hp machine when modded. Of course if they can get that much power out of a KTM 350 , I guess other OEM's could do the same. maybe 300-325cc?

Just thinking out loud.
ML512
Profile picture for user ML512
Posts
15455
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
45th
ML512 1/24/2017 9:20pm
1/24/2017 9:20pm
Just as a note, with Justin's best lap coming on lap two of the 250 class and Ken's happening on lap five of the 450 race, there was 20 laps of racing laid into that track between their best times.
Jackace
Profile picture for user Jackace
Posts
51
Joined
5/4/2015
Location
Boise, ID US
Jackace 1/24/2017 10:52pm
1/24/2017 10:52pm Edited Date/Time 1/24/2017 10:54pm
kzizok wrote:
Yeah, I think anyone around this sport long enough knows that comparing lap times like that can be deceiving. In other words, direct comparisons aren't really...
Yeah, I think anyone around this sport long enough knows that comparing lap times like that can be deceiving. In other words, direct comparisons aren't really possible and dont put too much stock in them. However, ballpark findings can be used as trends to consider.

To me, I think it helps reinforce the idea that 450's may be too much.
Jackace wrote:
I agree with you on the 450s just being too much.
gpnewhouse wrote:
Are the 450s too much though or are the 250fs too much? Shouldn't the entry class be an entry class? Some of the factory 250fs now...
Are the 450s too much though or are the 250fs too much?

Shouldn't the entry class be an entry class? Some of the factory 250fs now are making as much or more power than the factory 250 two strokes from ten/fifteen years ago, it would have been madness back then for a 16 year old to jump straight to the 250 two stroke but now it's what's expected of them.

The GP's realised this and so we have the EMX 125 series, the AMA needs to do something too.
Oh I think the 250s are too good for the entry class as well. If I was making the rules I would make things CC for CC between the 2 strokes and 4 strokes and stick with the old displacements of 250 and 125. Depending on how the 4 strokes worked out they might need a bump to 150 or so in the entry class.

Edit - One thing I always liked about watching SX and MX back in the 90s, while growing up, was seeing the different lines between the 125 and 250 classes. You don't see that much anymore, the 250s have much the same lines as the 450s.
TogaSet
Profile picture for user TogaSet
Posts
569
Joined
5/21/2016
Location
Chandler, AZ US
Fantasy
3894th
TogaSet 1/24/2017 10:55pm
1/24/2017 10:55pm
Makes you wonder how Webb would do in 450 class if he were back on his YZ 250 F
MX Guy
Profile picture for user MX Guy
Posts
2207
Joined
7/18/2016
Location
Murrieta, CA US
Fantasy
668th
MX Guy 1/24/2017 11:05pm
1/24/2017 11:05pm
Jackace wrote:
I agree with you on the 450s just being too much.
gpnewhouse wrote:
Are the 450s too much though or are the 250fs too much? Shouldn't the entry class be an entry class? Some of the factory 250fs now...
Are the 450s too much though or are the 250fs too much?

Shouldn't the entry class be an entry class? Some of the factory 250fs now are making as much or more power than the factory 250 two strokes from ten/fifteen years ago, it would have been madness back then for a 16 year old to jump straight to the 250 two stroke but now it's what's expected of them.

The GP's realised this and so we have the EMX 125 series, the AMA needs to do something too.
Jackace wrote:
Oh I think the 250s are too good for the entry class as well. If I was making the rules I would make things CC for...
Oh I think the 250s are too good for the entry class as well. If I was making the rules I would make things CC for CC between the 2 strokes and 4 strokes and stick with the old displacements of 250 and 125. Depending on how the 4 strokes worked out they might need a bump to 150 or so in the entry class.

Edit - One thing I always liked about watching SX and MX back in the 90s, while growing up, was seeing the different lines between the 125 and 250 classes. You don't see that much anymore, the 250s have much the same lines as the 450s.
Those Star Yamaha's do some cool things from the inside line.
gnarwhip
Profile picture for user gnarwhip
Posts
1972
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
gnarwhip 1/24/2017 11:38pm
1/24/2017 11:38pm
Hills on it. He's definitely got the winning genetics
Juice_Mann
Profile picture for user Juice_Mann
Posts
389
Joined
12/27/2016
Location
MO US
Juice_Mann 1/25/2017 6:01am
1/25/2017 6:01am
ML512 wrote:
Just as a note, with Justin's best lap coming on lap two of the 250 class and Ken's happening on lap five of the 450 race...
Just as a note, with Justin's best lap coming on lap two of the 250 class and Ken's happening on lap five of the 450 race, there was 20 laps of racing laid into that track between their best times.
That's true, but I believe Roczen is better and on a 250 would lay down a faster lap than Hill all day long. I just don't think 450s are necessary. RV didn't think so either at the 2007 MXoN.
IWreckALot
Profile picture for user IWreckALot
Posts
8677
Joined
3/12/2011
Location
Fort Worth, TX US
IWreckALot 1/25/2017 8:06am
1/25/2017 8:06am
ML512 wrote:
Just as a note, with Justin's best lap coming on lap two of the 250 class and Ken's happening on lap five of the 450 race...
Just as a note, with Justin's best lap coming on lap two of the 250 class and Ken's happening on lap five of the 450 race, there was 20 laps of racing laid into that track between their best times.
Juice_Mann wrote:
That's true, but I believe Roczen is better and on a 250 would lay down a faster lap than Hill all day long. I just don't...
That's true, but I believe Roczen is better and on a 250 would lay down a faster lap than Hill all day long. I just don't think 450s are necessary. RV didn't think so either at the 2007 MXoN.
What kind of lap time would Roczen throw down on a freshly groomed track on his 450. I have a feeling it would be faster than what he did in the main. That really only validates that the 450 serves to have faster racing. And I also don't believe Ken could have put down an equally fast lap time with the track he raced on a 250.
Roostermx58
Profile picture for user Roostermx58
Posts
1507
Joined
9/18/2013
Location
Raleigh/Durham, NC US
Roostermx58 1/25/2017 8:13am
1/25/2017 8:13am
I just think it's funny that teams are always looking to get MORE out of their bikes.

Yes it may give you the ability to hop over a triple right out of a turn or to clear something with less effort but as we know, the 250 can go just as fast. They are trying to get more horsepower and more power which is not always the answer to go faster.
Juice_Mann
Profile picture for user Juice_Mann
Posts
389
Joined
12/27/2016
Location
MO US
Juice_Mann 1/25/2017 8:20am
1/25/2017 8:20am
ML512 wrote:
Just as a note, with Justin's best lap coming on lap two of the 250 class and Ken's happening on lap five of the 450 race...
Just as a note, with Justin's best lap coming on lap two of the 250 class and Ken's happening on lap five of the 450 race, there was 20 laps of racing laid into that track between their best times.
Juice_Mann wrote:
That's true, but I believe Roczen is better and on a 250 would lay down a faster lap than Hill all day long. I just don't...
That's true, but I believe Roczen is better and on a 250 would lay down a faster lap than Hill all day long. I just don't think 450s are necessary. RV didn't think so either at the 2007 MXoN.
IWreckALot wrote:
What kind of lap time would Roczen throw down on a freshly groomed track on his 450. I have a feeling it would be faster than...
What kind of lap time would Roczen throw down on a freshly groomed track on his 450. I have a feeling it would be faster than what he did in the main. That really only validates that the 450 serves to have faster racing. And I also don't believe Ken could have put down an equally fast lap time with the track he raced on a 250.
I think he could match his lap time on a 250 indoors, but probably not outdoors since you can get going a lot faster. I still think it's too close to warrant racing a bike that powerful.
mikewainman 1/25/2017 9:10am
1/25/2017 9:10am
Cooper Webb stated his final lap conditions last year are his first lap conditions this year.
WillMX114
Profile picture for user WillMX114
Posts
72
Joined
6/24/2016
Location
Virginia Beach, VA US
WillMX114 1/25/2017 9:38am
1/25/2017 9:38am
IMO it has nothing to do with 450s being to much. The track being way more beat up has everything to do with it. It's kind of common sense if you have ever raced. Moto 1 of the day typically bring better track conditions than Moto 2 of the day.

Pit Row

See All »
JSmith
Profile picture for user JSmith
Posts
442
Joined
3/7/2016
Location
Mountain City, TN US
JSmith 1/25/2017 9:56am
1/25/2017 9:56am
Hill is on the fawking gas! He looks like the one who could win the 250W SX title. A slightly better start at San Diego, and he would have two wins right now. He came from 10th place? and 10-11 seconds down to almost win it.
ttugrad1793
Profile picture for user ttugrad1793
Posts
144
Joined
12/9/2013
Location
Boerne, TX US
ttugrad1793 1/25/2017 11:17am
1/25/2017 11:17am
this is why supercross is broken, IMO.

Back in the day it was so fun to wait for the 250s to come out and hit lines and rhythms that nobody else was hitting. Nowadays, the guys in the LCQ are hitting the same stuff. It's a snoozefest as there's so little difference in the ways the bikes attack the track. Yes, some guys are way faster than others, but it's rarely due to differing jump combos.

Post a reply to: Hill's fastest Lap at A2 matched Roczen's