Hey DC, it's time for some changes, this is not the 2000's or 1988.

Even with equal displacement rules I’m certain most, if not all competitive guys would still choose the 4 stroke

Johnny Depp for pres 2024!
This is way past due!! It will help some privateers in mx and make a bunch but not all fans happy. I'd love to see beta or tm try a factory effort in mx. It'd probably never happen but with no homo and equality for all, they'd be the only ones i could see mixing it up. I don't see more then a few guys run sx even with equal cc. These 250f's are damn good bikes now.

zehn wrote:

Even with equal displacement rules I’m certain most, if not all competitive guys would still choose the 4 stroke

Then why not allow 2t's if no one will race them? And I'm not talking about a neutered 2t. OPEN class also.

Electric is WAY overdue. Remember they were going to consider it a few years back...Edit: and try to figure what class an Alta should be in. Just call it Open class and let it be. They already assisted in killing off the only E-bike worth riding, and an American company at that. What incentive does any manufacturer have to develop a bike that can't be raced at the highest levels? Don't try and tell us it's all about 4t's being green when you won't let E-bikes race even at LL's.

Because OEMs.

Why are you calling out DC? Those are the AMA rules, not the promoters.

However since we have his attention I would like like to see a 125 class like the EMX125 series in Europe :-)

RyanD797 wrote:

Because OEMs.

MXGP has works bikes and the sky hasn’t fallen.

Hey DC, can you buy a few million acres so that we have places to ride? Probably can wait until after you make your deliveries on the 25th next month.

From what I read on Vital, MXGP is about Luongo taking all the money and rich slow kids buying their rides.

Mouse153 wrote:

Why are you calling out DC? Those are the AMA rules, not the promoters.

However since we have his attention I would like like to see a 125 class like the EMX125 series in Europe :-)

Tim Cotter made it seem like we might see something like that in the coming years on the last Pulp show. It’s a good listen.

Mouse153 wrote:

Why are you calling out DC? Those are the AMA rules, not the promoters.

However since we have his attention I would like like to see a 125 class like the EMX125 series in Europe :-)

Rickyisms wrote:

Tim Cotter made it seem like we might see something like that in the coming years on the last Pulp show. It’s a good listen.

Funny how every die hard MX fan would love to see a 125 feeder class but it falls on death ears. The Euros are kicking are ass outdoors and we need to step it up.

numbers wrote:

Funny how every die hard MX fan would love to see a 125 feeder class but it falls on death ears. The Euros are kicking are ass outdoors and we need to step it up.

The top MXGP riders are better than our top guys at motocross because that’s all they race, not because we don’t have a 125 feeder class.

Sorry to ruin the circle jerk taking place.

Rickyisms wrote:

Tim Cotter made it seem like we might see something like that in the coming years on the last Pulp show. It’s a good listen.

numbers wrote:

Funny how every die hard MX fan would love to see a 125 feeder class but it falls on death ears. The Euros are kicking are ass outdoors and we need to step it up.

aeffertz wrote:

The top MXGP riders are better than our top guys at motocross because that’s all they race, not because we don’t have a 125 feeder class.

Sorry to ruin the circle jerk taking place.

I think your half wrong. A 125 feeder class would allow fast riders from all over to get a taste of race pace and see where they need more development. Would allow teams to see talent they may not be able to normally see. It would be a win win.

seriously this isn’t the 2000s ... just give it a rest for the love of god!!!!

DC,

Can I please get a Playstation 5? I've been good for a large portion of the year.

thanks!

Not going to happen. He's openly spoke about how the OEM's have him by the balls and don't want "2 stroke equality".

This Vital post is surely whats going to be the final push for him to make this decision.

Johnny is bored and stirring the pot. Nit saying hes wrong. It actually makes sense.

while were at it lets change the jumps to 2020 also. why is laroccos leap the same distance as 1999? lets have axle see how far his 450 will go. just add another bump 20 feet farther for the guy cooper types. these follow the slot car track are getting stale for racing. can we get at least one hardpack track?

Mouse153 wrote:

Why are you calling out DC? Those are the AMA rules, not the promoters.

However since we have his attention I would like like to see a 125 class like the EMX125 series in Europe :-)

The AMA and DMG will go along with anything DC wants. Don't fall for that old line, it's a dead end.

Yes, but I didn't want to ask for too much. Absolutely finish what they started with 125's, but age limited not retired pro's.

Factories can race and develop the 250 4st.
Privateers and B/C level teams can ride the 250 2sts.

Fans benefit. Adds extra excitement, factions, sound, and diversity. WIN FUCKING WIN.

The only reason it doesn't happen is because the factories are terrified someone will beat their precious 4-strokes on an 'outdated' 2-stroke. Heaven fucking forbid.

Sack up and do what's good for the fans.

numbers wrote:

Funny how every die hard MX fan would love to see a 125 feeder class but it falls on death ears. The Euros are kicking are ass outdoors and we need to step it up.

aeffertz wrote:

The top MXGP riders are better than our top guys at motocross because that’s all they race, not because we don’t have a 125 feeder class.

Sorry to ruin the circle jerk taking place.

numbers wrote:

I think your half wrong. A 125 feeder class would allow fast riders from all over to get a taste of race pace and see where they need more development. Would allow teams to see talent they may not be able to normally see. It would be a win win.

The US focus is on SX whether we like it or not. Facts.

There are more SX than MX races in a year here so not only is the discipline split, the emphasis is on SX while the MXGP series is strictly motocross on multiple types of terrain. Adding a 125 class to the existing structure in the US would not make us better motocross racers. We have a solid amateur program here that brings kids up through the ranks but if they want to make it as a pro racer in America they need to learn SX.

Love it or hate it, that’s how it is. I would love to see two strokes return to pro racing in the US, especially a 125 class, but that’s not going to make ‘us’ better at motocross.

Johnny Depp wrote:

MXGP has works bikes and the sky hasn’t fallen.

Depends if you care that even some factory riders are not getting paid to race

Yes it is. It's two thousand and twenty.

I think it was in 2018 sweden alllowed 250 2 strokes in the MX2 class, and i think that every winner since then has been on a 2 stroke.

The only thing is that Gifting that now is a top 5 GP rider on GasGas didnt ride the series at all this year, so he probably would have won this year on a 4 stroke.

No 250 stokes for 250sx is fine but 250 2 strokes need to be allowed for the 250 national class. How many under supported but extremely talented guys could make a name for themselves on the right day on the right track but never will because they wouldn't be able to be competitive with a non factory 250f? Racing the 250 national class on a stock 250f is almost pointless if you want results good enough to propel your career and privateers are never going to be able to afford the cost of running a fast 250f.

Lets imagine 2022 they let 250 2-strokes line up in the outdoors or indoors in the Lites class. I would be willing to bet that any aspiring young pro would still race a 4 stroke. "Aspiring" is the key word. Look at the local races, most of them allow 250 2 strokes to race with 250 4 strokes, and most of the fast kids, wanting to be professionals, taking it serious, are on 4 strokes. The older pro's, been there done that type of pro's, are the ones you see on the 2 strokes, usually a little behind the leaders but still hauling ass.

And this is just my views from being at the races for the better part of the last 30 years, national and local stuff. I know there's some fast racers who rip and win on 2 strokes (Canadian nats?). But it would be awesome to see maybe 2 or 3 indoors at a supercross, and maybe 10 or 12 of the main event guys at AMA races on 2 strokes.

My recommendation for changes are a 6 round outdoor series ran in conjunction with the Nationals and have a individual race purse and series end purse and have it for 125's! Have big fat purses so it will attract some up and comers and the "been there, done that" pro's will both show up. Have the purse paid for with an extra $2.50 raise in ticket prices. Do it DC! It sounds easy from behind my keyboard!

Yep back to 3 classes:

125

250 (2 or 4 stroke)

500 (450 4 stroke or 300-500 2 stroke)

At least give the guys a choice.

Mouse153 wrote:

Why are you calling out DC? Those are the AMA rules, not the promoters.

However since we have his attention I would like like to see a 125 class like the EMX125 series in Europe :-)

Because DC can make the rule changes.

Contact the AMA, and, they will tell you the machinery rules are set by MX Sports / Feld, in each respective series.

zehn wrote:

Even with equal displacement rules I’m certain most, if not all competitive guys would still choose the 4 stroke

You are correct with that.

As, 3 of the Japanese brands have Nothing but 4ts, and Yamaha have a pair of 2005 /2006 model 2ts they sell enough of, without the need to promote them through racing at the highest levels.

The KTM (now) Triad? - they've a lot of 4 strokes to sell, with no need to push the 2ts. 2ts that basically subsidized , through the high profits on the 2ts, their 4ts of all types - Dirt and Road - development over many, many years.

After using the same 2 base 2t engine modules: the 125/200 until about 2015/16 and 250/300, until 2017, with just the minimal changes in the engines' basic design - you can fit a 380 crank in an up to '16 250 / 300 case, with a bit of machining on one crank end - then, finally, the 2, completely new engine modules. It was a fantastic business model, so helped by the Japanese factories basically leaving a still substantial part of the market to them.

KTM, KTHusky, KTGeeGee and Yamaha would probably offer little support to riders / teams that chose to race with their 2ts, in the main series.

Heck, last time I worked in a KTM shop, the 'shop deals' offered by them for the stores race efforts, was far better on a 4t. In Australia, the 2ts are often more expensive than the equivalent capacity 4t eg: a 350 EXC-F is $14295 rrp, a 300 EXC TPI is $14695 rrp. A bloody TPI 2t, is still cheaper to make than a 4t. And, a SX250 2t, I think is more expensive than and SXF 250 here. Though, that may be just down to how KTM Australia bleeds Orange owners for all they can.......

Sherco / TM / Beta - well, they are not allowed to race in the US premier series, at all - be they 2t or 4t.

So yes, back to your point, you'd see the vast, vast majority of Privateer Riders and Teams, and , of course, the Factory Teams, on Four Strokes, still.

But, that there would be far less 2ts than 4ts out there, is not a valid reason to not let them be out there, with the same capacity limits as 4ts, in their classes.

125 class, 250 class, and, a 450 class. As despite my being a 500 2t owner, I don't think old 500 engines in later model chassis should be out there in highest level racing, and I certainly don't think a bloody 2t should have a capacity advantage given to them. I'd love to see a modern, up to 450 be developed, though, I doubt it will ever happen.

For Zod's sake DC, (and Luongo The Drongo) these piss poor, pathetic sheltered workshop / handicap class racing rules, need to be done away with. They should have been jettisoned a decade and a half ago.