Help me get comfortable!

i3oykin
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San Marcos, CA US
Edited Date/Time 1/12/2016 8:29pm
I am a tall rider (6 foot 4 inches). I have had trouble since I started riding getting comfortable on any bike I have ridden.

I own a 2005 Yz250, and realized early on that I hated the forks, so I swapped them for SSS forks off an 07.
Then I put some Renthal RC high bend bars on it, felt a LITTLE more comfortable... So I tried some bar risers, now I feel like the bike will not turn, at all. It is very annoying, I am slightly more comfortable but at the cost of not being able to turn, I need to be able to do that lol!

So I decided to get a Yz125 after riding my buddies. It is all stock, in terms of ergonomics. The bike turns way better (stock bars). But I feel super awkward standing up. I am knees bent, super crouched over looking like the hunchback of Notre Damn.

So now I mainly feel like it is really hard for me to comfortable stand into a jump and it is hard for me to utilize the rear brake unless I am super far on the back of the bike. I also feel that my arms are pointed down when standing.
I like how the tall bars and risers feel standing but in a corner they make the bike feel atrocious!

I have only been riding for less than a year, and I started riding motocross in July. I ride all the SoCal tracks and have talked to a few taller guys I have seen but they weren't all that helpful in terms of proper technique.

So, my question is, how can I change my riding style/technique or learn the proper ways and get comfortable on my bike. I know that if I can feel more comfortable I would be able to ride way better, or at the least think I was! I want to improve, I need to be able to utilize my rear brake without taking my foot off the peg and loosing control of the bike. I need to be able to stand into and off jumps. This is a sport that I know I need to be standing a majority of the time and I want to make good habits and feel comfortable so that I can learn the proper techniques.

All help is appreciated!
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1/3/2016 8:29pm
Im 6' 4 also. I ride a 03 yz250 with 2012 SP sss stuff. I run windham bend with the mounts in the front holes. I run a tall seat. Love my bike. Its set up perfect for me. I used to run tall bars like pastrana bend. No more. Windhams also ktm bend bars lets me turn easier
ML512
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1/3/2016 8:34pm
My brother is in your same boat (he's 6'5") and I was recently interviewing Travis Pastrana (6'3"), afterwards we discussed the tall guy conundrum. When I turned over my last KX450F to my older brother, I didn't want him putting tall seat, risers, or other stuff like that, as I know it can ruin how the bike handles.

Travis agreed, as he's tried about everything under the rainbow. He agreed that extremely tall bars and seats may make it more comfortable to stand and sit on, but really ruins the riding experience. His best advice was to run the straightest-wide bar possible (to open up the room for your arms) and set the bar at a neutral level to the forks. He agreed with me that going too far forward really happens entering corners because of where it places your body position. He also advised against tall seats. Unless the bike has a pocket you get stuck in, which he said just tall enough to flatten out the seat was acceptable.

His biggest recommendation was to get the farthest back and lowest pegs you could manage, without ripping your feet off in ruts. This will move you on the bike to a position that should be much more natural. He did end with the fact that no matter what, a big guy is always going to feel a bit cramped.

His comments to the negativity behind very tall bars/risers and tall seats were what I've heard from many tall pros, it ruins how you corner the bike.

Take Kyle Partridge for example, he's 6'7"! In his QNA on the forum recently, he also advised against tall seats and bar risers.
mb
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1/3/2016 8:36pm Edited Date/Time 1/3/2016 8:36pm
I have tried different setups and always go back to normal. 971 +- 0

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BobPA
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1/3/2016 8:43pm
Tall bars are not the answer...
i3oykin
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1/3/2016 8:45pm
Im 6' 4 also. I ride a 03 yz250 with 2012 SP sss stuff. I run windham bend with the mounts in the front holes. I...
Im 6' 4 also. I ride a 03 yz250 with 2012 SP sss stuff. I run windham bend with the mounts in the front holes. I run a tall seat. Love my bike. Its set up perfect for me. I used to run tall bars like pastrana bend. No more. Windhams also ktm bend bars lets me turn easier
Hmm, maybe we could meet up sometime and talk at the track. It is hard to find tall riders, let alone fast ones that know what they are doing/have proper riding technique.

I was contemplating getting an upper triple clamp that would allow me to move the bars into a forward position to see if I liked it. I am not even sure what bars are on my 125 (125 is my track bike, 250 is for desert/sand now) they appear to be stock.
i3oykin
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1/3/2016 8:51pm Edited Date/Time 1/3/2016 8:55pm
ML512 wrote:
My brother is in your same boat (he's 6'5") and I was recently interviewing Travis Pastrana (6'3"), afterwards we discussed the tall guy conundrum. When I...
My brother is in your same boat (he's 6'5") and I was recently interviewing Travis Pastrana (6'3"), afterwards we discussed the tall guy conundrum. When I turned over my last KX450F to my older brother, I didn't want him putting tall seat, risers, or other stuff like that, as I know it can ruin how the bike handles.

Travis agreed, as he's tried about everything under the rainbow. He agreed that extremely tall bars and seats may make it more comfortable to stand and sit on, but really ruins the riding experience. His best advice was to run the straightest-wide bar possible (to open up the room for your arms) and set the bar at a neutral level to the forks. He agreed with me that going too far forward really happens entering corners because of where it places your body position. He also advised against tall seats. Unless the bike has a pocket you get stuck in, which he said just tall enough to flatten out the seat was acceptable.

His biggest recommendation was to get the farthest back and lowest pegs you could manage, without ripping your feet off in ruts. This will move you on the bike to a position that should be much more natural. He did end with the fact that no matter what, a big guy is always going to feel a bit cramped.

His comments to the negativity behind very tall bars/risers and tall seats were what I've heard from many tall pros, it ruins how you corner the bike.

Take Kyle Partridge for example, he's 6'7"! In his QNA on the forum recently, he also advised against tall seats and bar risers.
Awesome, a great reply I was looking for! Much appreciated. From my own experiences I completely agree. I was looking at a 998 bend or something "common". I am sticking with trying to keep the bike as stock as possible ergonomically. The bike was not designed for a tall rider and the way they are made is usually close to being the best way it will handle for a rider like me. I cannot believe that I even noticed the differences in all the changes, being a beginner rider and all. Also, could you get me a link to the KP interview? I follow him and watch him as much as I can to try and see what he does to combat his height disadvantage.

I wish I could just have a tall rider watch and coach me.

Consensus thus far, tall bars/risers: loss of cornering ability/comfort. Which I NEED, this sport is about corners, it is, for me, the hardest part of the sport, railing corners...
I do prefer stock seat height. I felt worse riding with a higher seat, cornering and overall. I have tried the Fastway lowboy pegs and honestly I like the stock Yami pegs better.
SAM642
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1/3/2016 9:00pm
im not sure the RC bend is going to help?
scooter5002
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1/3/2016 9:02pm
Funny you raise this issue, deal with it myself, at 6' 6". With some recent input from ML512, I raised my levers considerably, from where they'd been positioned. That being pointed at the ground, which felt comfortable, but it was causing it's own issues. My last ride out, I raised them to almost level, and while it felt weird, I did notice an improvement overall. Make sure your levers aren't pointing at the ground, like mine were. Develop good habits now, instead of having to break bad ones later, like me.

If your bike won't corner, raise the forks in the clamps. Easiest thing to do, for free, is alter the geometry of your bike. I run Windham bend bars on mine, because they showed the highest rise in the catalogue. Also have an inch or two riser underneath them, and it works nicely. I ran an old set of mounts that I'd had for years, but they were too tall, and it felt like I couldn't get up over the front end, when I was seated. Funny thing is, I ran those for years, and liked them. Wondering how much riding I threw away, by running those for so long. Then again, I was a lot younger, so I probably had an easier time compensating for them. Good luck finding a better setup.
i3oykin
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1/3/2016 9:27pm
SAM642 wrote:
im not sure the RC bend is going to help?
Tried it, they are like adding risers, made it corner funny IMO.
i3oykin
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1/3/2016 9:31pm
Funny you raise this issue, deal with it myself, at 6' 6". With some recent input from ML512, I raised my levers considerably, from where they'd...
Funny you raise this issue, deal with it myself, at 6' 6". With some recent input from ML512, I raised my levers considerably, from where they'd been positioned. That being pointed at the ground, which felt comfortable, but it was causing it's own issues. My last ride out, I raised them to almost level, and while it felt weird, I did notice an improvement overall. Make sure your levers aren't pointing at the ground, like mine were. Develop good habits now, instead of having to break bad ones later, like me.

If your bike won't corner, raise the forks in the clamps. Easiest thing to do, for free, is alter the geometry of your bike. I run Windham bend bars on mine, because they showed the highest rise in the catalogue. Also have an inch or two riser underneath them, and it works nicely. I ran an old set of mounts that I'd had for years, but they were too tall, and it felt like I couldn't get up over the front end, when I was seated. Funny thing is, I ran those for years, and liked them. Wondering how much riding I threw away, by running those for so long. Then again, I was a lot younger, so I probably had an easier time compensating for them. Good luck finding a better setup.
I always wondered why I like my levers pointed kind of further down than normal, specifically my clutch.
I will go set them close to level and try that out the next time I get to ride!
It feels better standing, I ride a 125 so I pretty much always have a finger on the clutch.

I found it corners best at 5mm up in the clamps and stock bars or similar, stock seat.

Is the Windham bar higher then I would presume? I see Ryno at Pala every once in awhile and he was training a kid that was near my height. They gave me a few minutes of their time and they advised that I try to run a very standard/common bar like a 998 and just force myself to adapt to how the bike is setup from the factory. Other than small alterations like fork height, etc....

mirramaxx
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1/3/2016 11:35pm
Use this to help with bar comparisons http://www.renthal.com/shop/worksfit-intro . The Windham bars aren't much different than my stock crf250 bars.I'm 6'1 and used my stock bars and bar clamps with some 15mm bar risers from www.rockymountainmc.com . I tend to stand up a lot when I ride, with the bars risers I felt less bent over than without. As far as my levers, I have them more forward or down on the bike so when I am sitting down my elbows are up. I run a stock seat height as well. Do what you feel is right to make you more comfortable while riding.
SAM642
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1/4/2016 2:40am
SAM642 wrote:
im not sure the RC bend is going to help?
i3oykin wrote:
Tried it, they are like adding risers, made it corner funny IMO.
is it RC as in the goat yeah? id think hed have a low bend as hes short
1/4/2016 3:54am
I tried everything under the sun to get my YZ 250 to feel comfortable and eventually came to the conclusion that stock was best. I'm a big boy too and ended up selling it and going back to Honda. I don't know what it is but I just feel best on a Honda. The YZ really was a great bike.



Pirate421
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1/4/2016 4:44am
I thought bar risers and tall bars were more comfortable until I really got comfortable with proper technique down. The risers will actually remove room from the cockpit by moving your arms closer to your chest. I went back to stock and worked everyday on focusing on the "attack" position. The tall bars and risers inhibit this good body position. Bend at the waist with head forward and at the front of the bike. Try not to let your legs crouch and do the work of your suspension, the bike should be able to move under you. Hope this makes sense and helps it sure helped me once I got it down. If you watch Ryan villopoto he really is in the attack position at all times head down ass up and arms up rowing the bike! Good luck!
419250f
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1/4/2016 5:19am
Renthal Twinwall YZ bend (921) has the least sweep and is a low bar.
Helps me corner better and keep my elbows out.
aedwards07
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1/4/2016 6:41am
What are you guys doing for lower pegs? I have a set of fast ways now that are in the lower position that a absolutely hate the pegs and my feet get riped off in ruts but feel way better than stock. I'd like to go slightly lower than stock and slightly back but have a normal Moto peg and not a platform.
i3oykin
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1/4/2016 8:54am
Pirate421 wrote:
I thought bar risers and tall bars were more comfortable until I really got comfortable with proper technique down. The risers will actually remove room from...
I thought bar risers and tall bars were more comfortable until I really got comfortable with proper technique down. The risers will actually remove room from the cockpit by moving your arms closer to your chest. I went back to stock and worked everyday on focusing on the "attack" position. The tall bars and risers inhibit this good body position. Bend at the waist with head forward and at the front of the bike. Try not to let your legs crouch and do the work of your suspension, the bike should be able to move under you. Hope this makes sense and helps it sure helped me once I got it down. If you watch Ryan villopoto he really is in the attack position at all times head down ass up and arms up rowing the bike! Good luck!
All good tips! Thank you.

A guy in my local friend group reached out to me after posting this, he has an 06 yz260 with aftermarket upper triple that he has the bar mounts moved forward in with Windahm bars. He is going to let me ride his bike to let me see if that helps me be more comfortable at all while retaining the ability to corner.

Thanks again guys, all have been helpful and I look forward to developing good and proper riding techniques. I am 22 now and would like to be a mid pack/fast local B rider by the age of 25. I am putting in the work, on and off the bike and I hope that I can do it.
Pirate421
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1/4/2016 9:06am
The better your body position is, the more efficient you are and use less energy and go faster. Let the bike do the work and you'll notice how much faster you will become and how much more control you will have
Titan1
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1/4/2016 9:24am
I'm almost 6'1"...not as tall as you, but about 3 or 4 inches taller than I feel bikes are designed for (I think bikes are designed for a 5'9" to 5'`10" rider), so I feel a fraction of your pain.

I'm an offroad guy, so I run a GPR stabilizer and I do so under the bars, this raises by handle bars by, I think 12-15mm's. I honestly didn't feel much of a difference in handling over stock, doing that...I tried a 30mm bar riser once on a buddies bike, and it negatively affected the handling.

Here is my solution: run a short bar riser. Get a wide handlebar. And then drop the foot pegs as far as you can. As an offroad guy, I don't have to worry about ruts (just rocks...lol), so I can be a bit more aggressive than a moto guy on this...but the lower pegs don't affect the handling, so its the way I would go.

Also, don't be afraid to really bend at the waist, and straighten your back and poke your butt out over the rear fender...



i3oykin
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1/4/2016 9:46am
Pirate421 wrote:
The better your body position is, the more efficient you are and use less energy and go faster. Let the bike do the work and you'll...
The better your body position is, the more efficient you are and use less energy and go faster. Let the bike do the work and you'll notice how much faster you will become and how much more control you will have
Totally, this whole moto and riding thing is such a challenge for me. So much learning and actively forcing myself to practice a technique until it becomes 2nd nature, and it feels that I need to always be re-learning some techniques to not get lazy...

i3oykin
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1/4/2016 9:48am
Titan1 wrote:
I'm almost 6'1"...not as tall as you, but about 3 or 4 inches taller than I feel bikes are designed for (I think bikes are designed...
I'm almost 6'1"...not as tall as you, but about 3 or 4 inches taller than I feel bikes are designed for (I think bikes are designed for a 5'9" to 5'`10" rider), so I feel a fraction of your pain.

I'm an offroad guy, so I run a GPR stabilizer and I do so under the bars, this raises by handle bars by, I think 12-15mm's. I honestly didn't feel much of a difference in handling over stock, doing that...I tried a 30mm bar riser once on a buddies bike, and it negatively affected the handling.

Here is my solution: run a short bar riser. Get a wide handlebar. And then drop the foot pegs as far as you can. As an offroad guy, I don't have to worry about ruts (just rocks...lol), so I can be a bit more aggressive than a moto guy on this...but the lower pegs don't affect the handling, so its the way I would go.

Also, don't be afraid to really bend at the waist, and straighten your back and poke your butt out over the rear fender...



I have trouble getting over the rear fender. My arms are average length. But, I have super long legs and a short torso. I am very awkward looking/feeling hahahaha!

I will try and focus on that, when my buddy was teaching me to seat bounce he made me sit so far back to where it felt like I was going to fall off.
I also need to get my physical fitness back to where it needs to be (been off for over a month due to an injury).
Titan1
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1/4/2016 11:35am Edited Date/Time 1/4/2016 11:41am
Titan1 wrote:
I'm almost 6'1"...not as tall as you, but about 3 or 4 inches taller than I feel bikes are designed for (I think bikes are designed...
I'm almost 6'1"...not as tall as you, but about 3 or 4 inches taller than I feel bikes are designed for (I think bikes are designed for a 5'9" to 5'`10" rider), so I feel a fraction of your pain.

I'm an offroad guy, so I run a GPR stabilizer and I do so under the bars, this raises by handle bars by, I think 12-15mm's. I honestly didn't feel much of a difference in handling over stock, doing that...I tried a 30mm bar riser once on a buddies bike, and it negatively affected the handling.

Here is my solution: run a short bar riser. Get a wide handlebar. And then drop the foot pegs as far as you can. As an offroad guy, I don't have to worry about ruts (just rocks...lol), so I can be a bit more aggressive than a moto guy on this...but the lower pegs don't affect the handling, so its the way I would go.

Also, don't be afraid to really bend at the waist, and straighten your back and poke your butt out over the rear fender...



i3oykin wrote:
I have trouble getting over the rear fender. My arms are average length. But, I have super long legs and a short torso. I am very...
I have trouble getting over the rear fender. My arms are average length. But, I have super long legs and a short torso. I am very awkward looking/feeling hahahaha!

I will try and focus on that, when my buddy was teaching me to seat bounce he made me sit so far back to where it felt like I was going to fall off.
I also need to get my physical fitness back to where it needs to be (been off for over a month due to an injury).
I'm not saying it necessarily needs to be way out over the rear fender...I'm just saying that when you are in the attack position, keep your back straight (rather than do the hunch back think) and if that means your butt is poking way out, then that's okay.

Most tall riders-myself included-when standing ride with the hunched back, and do the "suspension legs"...back hunched, and when absorbing bumps they basically squat up and down over and over again (their legs act as suspension, they bend at the ankle and knee...so as they ride their knees are sliding back and forth on the tank/seat).

The right way is to straighten your back, and when standing, bend at the knee and hip...as much as needed to make sure you are gripping the seat (not the tank) with your knees. Also when you ride, your knees-where they are gripping the seat-don't move, but you bend at the knee in such a way that your butt goes backwards-toward the rear fender.

This is wrong (his head is to far forward, if he'd slide his knees back to the side of the seat, and bend at the waste more he would look like he's kind of humping his handle bars):



And here is another one I found online:



This is better (knees at the seat, butt back over the rear fender):



Can you see the difference between the two? I was the first guy for a very long time...never felt comfortable on the bike, always thinking it was handlebars, or bar risers, or seat or whatever, then I took a one on one riding class with a pro desert racer (who is 6'3"), and that was the first thing he made me change. And it was probably the single biggest improvement I've ever made in riding. (This might be getting a bit off topic...from your bike set up, but proper technique will make whatever set up you run, work better.)
i3oykin
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San Marcos, CA US
1/5/2016 5:00pm
Titan1 wrote:
I'm almost 6'1"...not as tall as you, but about 3 or 4 inches taller than I feel bikes are designed for (I think bikes are designed...
I'm almost 6'1"...not as tall as you, but about 3 or 4 inches taller than I feel bikes are designed for (I think bikes are designed for a 5'9" to 5'`10" rider), so I feel a fraction of your pain.

I'm an offroad guy, so I run a GPR stabilizer and I do so under the bars, this raises by handle bars by, I think 12-15mm's. I honestly didn't feel much of a difference in handling over stock, doing that...I tried a 30mm bar riser once on a buddies bike, and it negatively affected the handling.

Here is my solution: run a short bar riser. Get a wide handlebar. And then drop the foot pegs as far as you can. As an offroad guy, I don't have to worry about ruts (just rocks...lol), so I can be a bit more aggressive than a moto guy on this...but the lower pegs don't affect the handling, so its the way I would go.

Also, don't be afraid to really bend at the waist, and straighten your back and poke your butt out over the rear fender...



i3oykin wrote:
I have trouble getting over the rear fender. My arms are average length. But, I have super long legs and a short torso. I am very...
I have trouble getting over the rear fender. My arms are average length. But, I have super long legs and a short torso. I am very awkward looking/feeling hahahaha!

I will try and focus on that, when my buddy was teaching me to seat bounce he made me sit so far back to where it felt like I was going to fall off.
I also need to get my physical fitness back to where it needs to be (been off for over a month due to an injury).
Titan1 wrote:
I'm not saying it necessarily needs to be way out over the rear fender...I'm just saying that when you are in the attack position, keep your...
I'm not saying it necessarily needs to be way out over the rear fender...I'm just saying that when you are in the attack position, keep your back straight (rather than do the hunch back think) and if that means your butt is poking way out, then that's okay.

Most tall riders-myself included-when standing ride with the hunched back, and do the "suspension legs"...back hunched, and when absorbing bumps they basically squat up and down over and over again (their legs act as suspension, they bend at the ankle and knee...so as they ride their knees are sliding back and forth on the tank/seat).

The right way is to straighten your back, and when standing, bend at the knee and hip...as much as needed to make sure you are gripping the seat (not the tank) with your knees. Also when you ride, your knees-where they are gripping the seat-don't move, but you bend at the knee in such a way that your butt goes backwards-toward the rear fender.

This is wrong (his head is to far forward, if he'd slide his knees back to the side of the seat, and bend at the waste more he would look like he's kind of humping his handle bars):



And here is another one I found online:



This is better (knees at the seat, butt back over the rear fender):



Can you see the difference between the two? I was the first guy for a very long time...never felt comfortable on the bike, always thinking it was handlebars, or bar risers, or seat or whatever, then I took a one on one riding class with a pro desert racer (who is 6'3"), and that was the first thing he made me change. And it was probably the single biggest improvement I've ever made in riding. (This might be getting a bit off topic...from your bike set up, but proper technique will make whatever set up you run, work better.)
I am deff the guy in the front I feel like Sad .
I don't think it is off topic. I feel that with proper technique comes comfort!
i3oykin
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San Marcos, CA US
1/12/2016 8:29pm
I was able to ride for about 1 hour this weekend. I set the bike up "normal". The bars are set to be in line with the forks. Forks are 3mm up in the top triple.
Levers are now pointed almost straight forward whereas before they were almost straight down.

It helped a TON. I think the levers forced me to get my butt over the rear seat and fender, I felt a lot better braking into a corner, and my transition from standing braking to seated corner my buddy pointed out was a lot better, and most of all it felt more natural.

Meeting up with a guy Saturday to ride Cahuilla Creek, he has an upper triple with the bars in the forward position, and Windham bend bars. Will report back.

As of now though I think I need to focus on technique.

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