Have you ever switched suspension tuners just to see

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12/3/2019 12:52 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/3/2019 1:07 PM

Have you guys ever switched suspension tuners just to see their “take” on your bike and springers? Can they get it just that much better?I’ve used FC and they were decent but I always suffered from some head shake and we could never get it right on my 15 yz250f and 14 crf270, so when I bought my fc350 I knew it was time to upgrade to some kyb’s because I didn’t care for the small chop harshness that came from the aer so I went with the guy whose at most of the local races and has a good reputation. We started outbuilding a set of kyb and they were pretty awesome, huge improvement over the aer forks, I then bought PC national spring tubes so he went back in for surgery and did what he thought would be good, it’s pretty decent but I’ve gone up in oil 10cc that has helped with the mid blow through I think I’m feeling, we spoke and said he would go back in and change the valving if I want with that being said would you go back to him and keep working together to get them dialed in or would you go with let’s say Enzo who is one of the best kyb tuners out there and is familiar with pc spring tubes.... the whole reason why I post this is because a buddy of mine has a ktm450 with cone valves and they felt freaking amazing, like my bike has always felt pretty damn great compared to others bikes but this one got the wheels spinning. What to do?
Go with a new guy who can most likely get me dialed in first try, or keep working with my guy and see what happens?

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12/3/2019 1:16 PM

Do you ever wonder if you're over-thinking it?

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12/3/2019 1:19 PM

ben5020 wrote:

Have you guys ever switched suspension tuners just to see their “take” on your bike and springers? Can they get it just that much better?I’ve used FC and they were decent but I always suffered from some head shake and we could never get it right on my 15 yz250f and 14 crf270, so when I bought my fc350 I knew it was time to upgrade to some kyb’s because I didn’t care for the small chop harshness that came from the aer so I went with the guy whose at most of the local races and has a good reputation. We started outbuilding a set of kyb and they were pretty awesome, huge improvement over the aer forks, I then bought PC national spring tubes so he went back in for surgery and did what he thought would be good, it’s pretty decent but I’ve gone up in oil 10cc that has helped with the mid blow through I think I’m feeling, we spoke and said he would go back in and change the valving if I want with that being said would you go back to him and keep working together to get them dialed in or would you go with let’s say Enzo who is one of the best kyb tuners out there and is familiar with pc spring tubes.... the whole reason why I post this is because a buddy of mine has a ktm450 with cone valves and they felt freaking amazing, like my bike has always felt pretty damn great compared to others bikes but this one got the wheels spinning. What to do?
Go with a new guy who can most likely get me dialed in first try, or keep working with my guy and see what happens?

Lost me by the third sentence...

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"I love the smell of race gas in the morning"

12/3/2019 1:21 PM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Do you ever wonder if you're over-thinking it?

No not at all, valving and spring weight combos vary from tuner to tuner. Can the “top dog” get the most out of my current suspension and bike setup. Conevalves felt like I was riding on a cloud through a rut, mine not so much def way more movement....

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12/3/2019 1:24 PM

ben5020 wrote:

Have you guys ever switched suspension tuners just to see their “take” on your bike and springers? Can they get it just that much better?I’ve used FC and they were decent but I always suffered from some head shake and we could never get it right on my 15 yz250f and 14 crf270, so when I bought my fc350 I knew it was time to upgrade to some kyb’s because I didn’t care for the small chop harshness that came from the aer so I went with the guy whose at most of the local races and has a good reputation. We started outbuilding a set of kyb and they were pretty awesome, huge improvement over the aer forks, I then bought PC national spring tubes so he went back in for surgery and did what he thought would be good, it’s pretty decent but I’ve gone up in oil 10cc that has helped with the mid blow through I think I’m feeling, we spoke and said he would go back in and change the valving if I want with that being said would you go back to him and keep working together to get them dialed in or would you go with let’s say Enzo who is one of the best kyb tuners out there and is familiar with pc spring tubes.... the whole reason why I post this is because a buddy of mine has a ktm450 with cone valves and they felt freaking amazing, like my bike has always felt pretty damn great compared to others bikes but this one got the wheels spinning. What to do?
Go with a new guy who can most likely get me dialed in first try, or keep working with my guy and see what happens?

Stick with the same guy. Work together, build a relationship. If he’s at the track he can watch you ride, Enzo, FC, insert any other brand, can’t watch you ride the bike. I’ve stuck with the same guy for over 3 years and now that we have a relationship and he knows what I like he typically nails the revalve first try. He cuts me deals, does free work sometimes, hooks me up with his connections sometimes, it’s just way better to keep it local and build a relationship with your suspension guy in my opinion

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12/3/2019 1:26 PM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Do you ever wonder if you're over-thinking it?

ben5020 wrote:

No not at all, valving and spring weight combos vary from tuner to tuner. Can the “top dog” get the most out of my current suspension and bike setup. Conevalves felt like I was riding on a cloud through a rut, mine not so much def way more movement....

I was thinking more along the lines of- do you need it?

show us your credentials... where did you finish in the Outdoor nationals?

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12/3/2019 1:29 PM

Different companies are give you different results, each has their own build specs and ways of doing things. I went through a few different companies before doing our own thing. Each ride was different. We had 2 125's with two different builders good stuff and they were vastly different even though they were setup for the same kid....

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2020 YZ450F
2018 KTM 450SXF FE
2016 YZ250F 2008 CRF450R
2015 YZ250F 2008 CRF250R
2001 CR250R
2010 YZ250 2012 CRF150R
2009 YZ125 2010 KX109.5
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TAGMX Suspension & Graphics! www.tagmxsuspension.com https://www.liquidskinzdesign.com/



12/3/2019 1:36 PM

I say go Enzo, your current tuner probably read this and is about to say fuck em

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12/3/2019 1:36 PM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Do you ever wonder if you're over-thinking it?

No, but now he's going to wonder about your question for a few weeks.

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Braaapin' aint easy.

12/3/2019 1:38 PM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Do you ever wonder if you're over-thinking it?

ben5020 wrote:

No not at all, valving and spring weight combos vary from tuner to tuner. Can the “top dog” get the most out of my current suspension and bike setup. Conevalves felt like I was riding on a cloud through a rut, mine not so much def way more movement....

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of- do you need it?

show us your credentials... where did you finish in the Outdoor nationals?

By that logic, do you even need a bike? If you arent using it to put food on the table, you don't need it. Doesn't matter if it brings you joy and you can afford it.

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12/3/2019 2:05 PM

ben5020 wrote:

No not at all, valving and spring weight combos vary from tuner to tuner. Can the “top dog” get the most out of my current suspension and bike setup. Conevalves felt like I was riding on a cloud through a rut, mine not so much def way more movement....

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of- do you need it?

show us your credentials... where did you finish in the Outdoor nationals?

davis224 wrote:

By that logic, do you even need a bike? If you arent using it to put food on the table, you don't need it. Doesn't matter if it brings you joy and you can afford it.

You need a bike if you're going to ride motocross.

You don't need extensive suspension tuning to ride it & enjoy it though.

Id question if this suspension stuff is in fact bringing him joy..... sounds like he's head-fucked to me.. Get on it, ride it, smile!

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12/3/2019 2:10 PM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Do you ever wonder if you're over-thinking it?

ben5020 wrote:

No not at all, valving and spring weight combos vary from tuner to tuner. Can the “top dog” get the most out of my current suspension and bike setup. Conevalves felt like I was riding on a cloud through a rut, mine not so much def way more movement....

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of- do you need it?

show us your credentials... where did you finish in the Outdoor nationals?

Not exactly sure what value you are adding to this thread....what would skill level have to do with what I am asking about? Didn’t realize one has to be a professional mx racer to get the full potential out of his suspension

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12/3/2019 2:11 PM

crowe176 wrote:

I say go Enzo, your current tuner probably read this and is about to say fuck em

Lmao I love my current guy but I have a wondering eye at times lol

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12/3/2019 2:14 PM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of- do you need it?

show us your credentials... where did you finish in the Outdoor nationals?

davis224 wrote:

By that logic, do you even need a bike? If you arent using it to put food on the table, you don't need it. Doesn't matter if it brings you joy and you can afford it.

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

You need a bike if you're going to ride motocross.

You don't need extensive suspension tuning to ride it & enjoy it though.

Id question if this suspension stuff is in fact bringing him joy..... sounds like he's head-fucked to me.. Get on it, ride it, smile!

Have you ever ridden on stock aer forks? How about a set of kyb forks? Kyb forks on a husky? Stock kyb then pro circuit national spring tubes, then a kit then a kit with national spring tubes? Go in that progression and you might be wondering the same things I’m wondering....

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12/3/2019 2:14 PM

Enzo knows KYB stuff. I have ran their base setting on every track and been super happy with it.

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12/3/2019 2:40 PM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of- do you need it?

show us your credentials... where did you finish in the Outdoor nationals?

davis224 wrote:

By that logic, do you even need a bike? If you arent using it to put food on the table, you don't need it. Doesn't matter if it brings you joy and you can afford it.

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

You need a bike if you're going to ride motocross.

You don't need extensive suspension tuning to ride it & enjoy it though.

Id question if this suspension stuff is in fact bringing him joy..... sounds like he's head-fucked to me.. Get on it, ride it, smile!

True, you don't NEED it, but the only person bringing up the word need is you. He's asking opinions on where he should spend his money that he has already decided he wants to spend. But I guess your opinion of, "Don't spend any money" is technically an addition to the conversation.

I play guitar, and I don't NEED anything more than a midrange $400 Epiphone, but goddamnit, I sure do like my Gibsons and I sure do want a $3,000 PRS. If someone wants to spend some extra money to help grow the industry, let em. Unless they're struggling to pay other bills.

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12/3/2019 2:42 PM

sandtrack315 wrote:

Enzo knows KYB stuff. I have ran their base setting on every track and been super happy with it.

This is what I was looking to hear and I see you are in my area and I assume ride the same tracks. Etown? FOD?pagoda?

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12/3/2019 3:43 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/3/2019 3:43 PM

To the OP, to answer your question I have always gone to a tuner with a good rep that is local. If I move I go somewhere else. Go to a suspension tuner that you can talk to in person and one that’s willing to spend time and work with you. If FC isn’t that place go somewhere else.

And not trying to be a dick, but the AER’s are really good with small chop. Should feel like pillows. That’s a strength, that and bottoming, so I’m questioning your personal settings. CV’s are not magic and either are KYB SSS, but you wouldn’t know it because... internet opinions.

Rant alert! 89% of us we don’t spend the time at tracks testing sections back and forth, screwdriver stuck in a tree/dirt, trying this, that, until it’s the best it can be and doing that at ALL the tracks you ride. (I am bad about this too, but find when I do take the time it pays off BIGLY.)

If it’s still not feeling great communicate that back to tuner. Somehow we expect the tuners to read our minds and deliver a set of suspension with the exact valving and clicker settings that work perfectly out of the box. Gotta click that shit. Track to track. So many guys don’t hardly touch suspension clickers. It’s weird.

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12/3/2019 5:56 PM

ben5020 wrote:

Lmao I love my current guy but I have a wondering eye at times lol

Sound like my girlfriend...

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12/3/2019 6:03 PM

davis224 wrote:

By that logic, do you even need a bike? If you arent using it to put food on the table, you don't need it. Doesn't matter if it brings you joy and you can afford it.

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

You need a bike if you're going to ride motocross.

You don't need extensive suspension tuning to ride it & enjoy it though.

Id question if this suspension stuff is in fact bringing him joy..... sounds like he's head-fucked to me.. Get on it, ride it, smile!

davis224 wrote:

True, you don't NEED it, but the only person bringing up the word need is you. He's asking opinions on where he should spend his money that he has already decided he wants to spend. But I guess your opinion of, "Don't spend any money" is technically an addition to the conversation.

I play guitar, and I don't NEED anything more than a midrange $400 Epiphone, but goddamnit, I sure do like my Gibsons and I sure do want a $3,000 PRS. If someone wants to spend some extra money to help grow the industry, let em. Unless they're struggling to pay other bills.

I bought a CE24. Do I need it? Certainly not, but it makes me smile every single time I hear it. The thing is amazing. Plus, zero interest financing at guitar center, why not?!

I could spend that 2k on some bad ass forks but I don’t think it would bring me as much joy.

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12/3/2019 6:07 PM

just effn ride the thing...

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12/3/2019 6:28 PM

I tell people all the time that my stock aer’s are spring conversions. Funny how many people tell me what a difference they can feel.

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12/3/2019 6:31 PM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

You need a bike if you're going to ride motocross.

You don't need extensive suspension tuning to ride it & enjoy it though.

Id question if this suspension stuff is in fact bringing him joy..... sounds like he's head-fucked to me.. Get on it, ride it, smile!

davis224 wrote:

True, you don't NEED it, but the only person bringing up the word need is you. He's asking opinions on where he should spend his money that he has already decided he wants to spend. But I guess your opinion of, "Don't spend any money" is technically an addition to the conversation.

I play guitar, and I don't NEED anything more than a midrange $400 Epiphone, but goddamnit, I sure do like my Gibsons and I sure do want a $3,000 PRS. If someone wants to spend some extra money to help grow the industry, let em. Unless they're struggling to pay other bills.

ktmdan wrote:

I bought a CE24. Do I need it? Certainly not, but it makes me smile every single time I hear it. The thing is amazing. Plus, zero interest financing at guitar center, why not?!

I could spend that 2k on some bad ass forks but I don’t think it would bring me as much joy.

Photo
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12/3/2019 7:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/4/2019 9:32 AM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

You need a bike if you're going to ride motocross.

You don't need extensive suspension tuning to ride it & enjoy it though.

Id question if this suspension stuff is in fact bringing him joy..... sounds like he's head-fucked to me.. Get on it, ride it, smile!

davis224 wrote:

True, you don't NEED it, but the only person bringing up the word need is you. He's asking opinions on where he should spend his money that he has already decided he wants to spend. But I guess your opinion of, "Don't spend any money" is technically an addition to the conversation.

I play guitar, and I don't NEED anything more than a midrange $400 Epiphone, but goddamnit, I sure do like my Gibsons and I sure do want a $3,000 PRS. If someone wants to spend some extra money to help grow the industry, let em. Unless they're struggling to pay other bills.

ktmdan wrote:

I bought a CE24. Do I need it? Certainly not, but it makes me smile every single time I hear it. The thing is amazing. Plus, zero interest financing at guitar center, why not?!

I could spend that 2k on some bad ass forks but I don’t think it would bring me as much joy.

If they still made a CE22 I'd have it right now. I just prefer a 22 fret neck and the neck pickup position better. I'm daydreaming over some 408 models currently...

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12/3/2019 7:18 PM

davis224 wrote:

True, you don't NEED it, but the only person bringing up the word need is you. He's asking opinions on where he should spend his money that he has already decided he wants to spend. But I guess your opinion of, "Don't spend any money" is technically an addition to the conversation.

I play guitar, and I don't NEED anything more than a midrange $400 Epiphone, but goddamnit, I sure do like my Gibsons and I sure do want a $3,000 PRS. If someone wants to spend some extra money to help grow the industry, let em. Unless they're struggling to pay other bills.

ktmdan wrote:

I bought a CE24. Do I need it? Certainly not, but it makes me smile every single time I hear it. The thing is amazing. Plus, zero interest financing at guitar center, why not?!

I could spend that 2k on some bad ass forks but I don’t think it would bring me as much joy.

Tbteam wrote: Photo

Did I mention I also have a craving for a bound Tele with P90s in it? Looks like you should offload one or two of those to my collection. (Sorry for hijacking the thread)
Photo

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12/3/2019 7:37 PM

sandtrack315 wrote:

Enzo knows KYB stuff. I have ran their base setting on every track and been super happy with it.

ben5020 wrote:

This is what I was looking to hear and I see you are in my area and I assume ride the same tracks. Etown? FOD?pagoda?

I ride etown and FOD. Had enzo do my 16 Yz250f twice and both times I was happy. Thinking about using them for my Honda.

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12/3/2019 8:02 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/3/2019 8:05 PM

Couple comments here:

1. It takes several swings at the tuning bat to get things working well...then go to a new track and hit the reset button.
2. This is why all the teams have a suspension guy...they make changes all the time. They adjust to tracks and track conditions.
3. Stick with one suspension tuner you like, that will redo stuff and that gets you closer to the mark with each try. This is normal and the tuner should enjoy this process too. However, if each try gets you further from the mark... you may have someone that doesn't understand you (or you're not explaining what's going on correctly) or doesn't understand that fork or shock and which mods to make to get it to work as you want.
4. Learn how to do it yourself. Infact, I had a problem with a tuner back in 1988 and had to go back to him several times. He'd argue with me when I brought it back. So I said screw that..... I called a buddy that had done a few shocks then called another buddy that ran Fox Racing Shocks Power sports division and worked there for 23 years. It took one 20 min white board session for me to understand a few simple concepts of valve stack building and I was off on my own. Have not let anyone touch my forks or shock since then but myself.
5. Recently a kid moved into my neighborhood that had a garage full of bikes... moto and bicycles. There were also several ALTA motorcycles in there too. So I stopped one day and said hi.. asked about the ALTA's. Turns out he was the chassis engineer at ALTA till it shut down. And ALTA hired Dave Arnold (ex Honda Team manager) to work with him on chassis design. I started to explain to him the issue I'm having with getting the valving on a 2016 KTM 350 XC-F to work and he got out a pen and drew the linkage curve on a piece of cardboard in his garage. He said this is what is happening... And KTM does this so they can put the lightest shock spring on the bike to keep the weight down.
6. So I start reading about various linkage options from PR2 and ProCircuit for that bike. Their reason for the linkage in the product description describe the EXACT issue I'm running into! So I purchase a knuckle from a company called Luxon MX for the bike and now.... now I have to go in and revalve and possible respring the rear shock... But all the while it's getting better. And now I'm learning the linkage game... They go hand in hand. Goofy linkage curves will make your valving chase a NIGHTMARE!

7. So that's the process... get used to it! And enjoy it.

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12/3/2019 10:13 PM

Anyone wondering if you really need to get your suspension done because you’re not raging the nationals obviously hasn’t ridden with good suspension.

Good suspension can take a mid pack C rider to the front of the pack C rider, or a mid pack B rider to a front B rider.

Good suspension allows you to gain confidence in hitting things from braking bumps, acceleration bumps and jumps and will allow you to ride better and faster overall.

So you need suspension setup and dialed in for you specifically? Absolutely, Yes! It makes a bigger difference than a pipe, graphics or anodized parts ever will.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hamdaddyof2 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

12/4/2019 6:02 AM

Only switched because the owner of the company I first went to was very rude. His work was great but you would actually feel like you were not doing them a favor by bringing your suspension in. The guy had too much work but failed to see that he needed to hire more people, when stressed he would sometimes be rude. Weird deal.

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12/4/2019 6:21 AM

ben5020 wrote:

Have you guys ever switched suspension tuners just to see their “take” on your bike and springers? Can they get it just that much better?I’ve used FC and they were decent but I always suffered from some head shake and we could never get it right on my 15 yz250f and 14 crf270, so when I bought my fc350 I knew it was time to upgrade to some kyb’s because I didn’t care for the small chop harshness that came from the aer so I went with the guy whose at most of the local races and has a good reputation. We started outbuilding a set of kyb and they were pretty awesome, huge improvement over the aer forks, I then bought PC national spring tubes so he went back in for surgery and did what he thought would be good, it’s pretty decent but I’ve gone up in oil 10cc that has helped with the mid blow through I think I’m feeling, we spoke and said he would go back in and change the valving if I want with that being said would you go back to him and keep working together to get them dialed in or would you go with let’s say Enzo who is one of the best kyb tuners out there and is familiar with pc spring tubes.... the whole reason why I post this is because a buddy of mine has a ktm450 with cone valves and they felt freaking amazing, like my bike has always felt pretty damn great compared to others bikes but this one got the wheels spinning. What to do?
Go with a new guy who can most likely get me dialed in first try, or keep working with my guy and see what happens?

I think you answered your own question without knowing it.
Your buddy had dream like Cone Valves..... Buy a set for yourself!
Case closed.

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