Have 2 strokes gone as far as they can?

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3/26/2016 9:16 AM

We all know that the 1997 YZF400 was the beginning of the end to the 2 stroke era and not much has been changed in the oil burners since. That being said, aside from direct injection, if the 4 stokes had not come on the scene, where do you guys think the 2 strokes would be right now? Things would obviously be different than current models had all the manufacturers been improving them over the past 15 years.

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Official member of the ElHombre fan club


Team MooseCAN

Deano2021

3/26/2016 9:25 AM

Imagine how light they could be!
Easily under 200lbs for a 300cc bike!

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Free Jeffro

3/26/2016 9:28 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/26/2016 9:30 AM

They already made more power than 4 strokes ever will pound for pound or cc for cc. The emissions would have been solved, I remember Honda having something that reburned the exhaust 15 or 20 years ago. The 4 stroke re-evolution did nothing but harm off road motorcycling, but we all bought into it.

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3/26/2016 9:30 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/26/2016 9:31 AM

I think that we would have seen much more improvement in suspension. Electromagnetic adjustable on the fly stuff. I think the motors were/are about as good as they are going to get for the most part, so the manufacturers probably would have focused their efforts on chassis and suspension IMO.

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Official member of the ElHombre fan club


Team MooseCAN

Deano2021

3/26/2016 9:54 AM

Maybe seeing something like an Eric Gorr motor strapped into a new AF chassis , updated electronics , lighter weight. It's possible to build something like that if you have the money. In the 250 class I think they are still the superior motor ( The 2 stroke ). Something to compare up against the 450F's , again an Eric Gorr or something similar type motor.

A 52HP , 295cc 2 stroke , added fly wheel weight , updated electronics stuffed into a 215lb chassis. Who knows where they would be at right now. Sorry , just throwing out some random thoughts.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

3/26/2016 10:05 AM

2 stokes are dead 4 stoke is the best machine ever made so glad they made the change

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3/26/2016 10:13 AM

Yamiguy51 wrote:

2 stokes are dead 4 stoke is the best machine ever made so glad they made the change

I don't know how many guys that rode the plus classes said just that. A 4str is just more fun. I can ride them both and dont care either way. But,when they killed the 500 2 str I was very pissed.

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3/26/2016 10:17 AM

don't let BRP/Rotax read this thread...they apparently missed the memo on stopping development of 2strokes....


just think ktm 300 or yz250 w/ direct injection....ability to adjust fuel delivery with a fuel controller...so much tech not even on a dirtbike...

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3/26/2016 10:18 AM

Yamiguy51 wrote:

2 stokes are dead 4 stoke is the best machine ever made so glad they made the change

Ever been to any big offroad races? What about throwing a leg over a new KTM 125 , 150 or 250SX? dizzy whistling

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

3/26/2016 11:03 AM

2 strokes are far too reliable and even if they go bang its cheap to fix thats what its all about, 4 strokes make more money when things go wrong plain and simple.

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3/26/2016 11:04 AM

This battery technology, aluminum graphite battery will make 4 strokes obsolete in SX. The only thing stopping this is
the AMA.

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3/26/2016 11:06 AM

hartebreak wrote:

I think that we would have seen much more improvement in suspension. Electromagnetic adjustable on the fly stuff. I think the ...more

This..

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Some of these posts are like reading closed caption on the cartoon channel...



Hello?..Vital?...

3/26/2016 11:20 AM

Yamiguy51 wrote:

2 stokes are dead 4 stoke is the best machine ever made so glad they made the change

jeffro503 wrote:

Ever been to any big offroad races? What about throwing a leg over a new KTM 125 , 150 or 250SX? dizzy whistling

Why would I do that when there's Ktm250f Ktm 350 and 450

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3/26/2016 11:29 AM

...are you serious? No way you are...

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3/26/2016 11:31 AM

Yamiguy51 wrote:

2 stokes are dead 4 stoke is the best machine ever made so glad they made the change

jeffro503 wrote:

Ever been to any big offroad races? What about throwing a leg over a new KTM 125 , 150 or 250SX? dizzy whistling

This...
I demoed the '16 150sx, and ditched my CRF for one that same week.

In regards to the original question. 2 strokes are still going strong in other sports. I posted a picture of a twin throat pumper fed 80hp 250cc motor in an other thread.
Between the AMA having their head up there asses, the EPA growing stronger, and the manufacturers enjoying the extra money the thumpers bring in, we probably won't see much advancement in 2 stroke moto.

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“Scrub as hard as you want. It’s a two-stroke, it’ll come back” - Robby Marshall

3/26/2016 11:33 AM

There would definetely be more data acquisition/electronic stuff and suspension would also be much improved

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3/26/2016 11:48 AM

if i only think of how carbs are qutie the same since forever, and only a few engines have electronic controlled exhaust valves and much more, i would say 2 strokes are far from what they could have been.

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3/26/2016 12:01 PM

hartebreak wrote:

I think that we would have seen much more improvement in suspension. Electromagnetic adjustable on the fly stuff. I think the ...more

Big Lenny wrote:

This..

This X2. While the Double Displacement 4 stroke brought legalized cheating quality power delivery to the game, that also took the better part of a decade to iron out all the flaws and get a good overall package from all the mfgs'. That would have been a decade of advancements to engine, suspension and chassis that the 2 strokes would have benefitted from. So here we sit 2 decades later with an entry level air suspension that people haven't come to accept yet while the mountain bike market is killing it in suspension. 2 strokes would have had FI dialed by now and performance and rideability would be more like a four stroke than an erratic smoker of 1972.

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3/26/2016 12:12 PM

Still arguing over 2t vs 4t without realising the internal combustion engine itself is on the brink of obsolescence

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3/26/2016 12:24 PM

Funnily enough more progress than 2 strokes, it's inevitable, I don't see it as a bad thing. There isn't one track over here that doesn't struggle with noise problems

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3/26/2016 12:36 PM

Andy_Greenney wrote:

Still arguing over 2t vs 4t without realising the internal combustion engine itself is on the brink of obsolescence

I hope I'm not around to see it.

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“Scrub as hard as you want. It’s a two-stroke, it’ll come back” - Robby Marshall

3/26/2016 12:42 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/26/2016 12:43 PM

Andy_Greenney wrote:

Still arguing over 2t vs 4t without realising the internal combustion engine itself is on the brink of obsolescence

SmoothOperator wrote:

I hope I'm not around to see it.

Me either. I think 4 strokes sound like shit compared to a 2 stroke, but they sound great compared to a chain slapping.

But I do see a pretty cool expansion of MX in different areas with a electric option, but would not cost 15k and weighs 275lbs.

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3/26/2016 12:57 PM

Yamiguy51 wrote:

2 stokes are dead 4 stoke is the best machine ever made so glad they made the change

Photo

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3/26/2016 1:02 PM

SmoothOperator wrote:

This...
I demoed the '16 150sx, and ditched my CRF for one that same week.

In regards to the original question. 2 strokes are ...more

It is amazing how much better those few extra cc's make a bike. The 150 is by far the most fun bike that i have ever ridden.

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3/26/2016 1:19 PM

Yamiguy51 wrote:

2 stokes are dead 4 stoke is the best machine ever made so glad they made the change

Photo
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3/26/2016 1:51 PM

SmoothOperator wrote:

This...
I demoed the '16 150sx, and ditched my CRF for one that same week.

In regards to the original question. 2 strokes are ...more

Plenty of tech for big power and light weight 2strokes. I have a 100 horse 2 stroke that has a more then rideable power curve and is capable of much more top end power. I've ran it with a one off fuel injection setup and currently run smart carbs. I just inspected the top end at 25hrs, everything looks prime and ready to go a very safe 50-60hrs!

I think we all would have much better overall bikes! Lighter, better suspension, better carbs or fueling options and of course much better sounds! I have switched back and fourth several times. I would sell my 450 so fast if there was a modern big bore 2 stroke. Either way though I enjoy riding period and if it wasn't windy as heck here, that's what I'd be doing right now!

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3/26/2016 2:04 PM

As a 17 yr old slow C class rider I can say I love my 125 and am a two stroke rider for life. Simple fast and fun!

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3/26/2016 2:17 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/26/2016 2:21 PM

In my opinion there isnt much that they need to do so they get sub 200lb 250-300 two stroke.

i am sure if they upped the cc and lowered the peak hp, we could have broader power curve.

There must be more to be gained by suing varibale exhust tuning too

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3/26/2016 2:21 PM

At equal displacement you could easily tune a 2 stroke to have a similar power delivery as a 4 stoke. Thank you KTM for your continued support.

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The older I get, the faster I was. Posting without a cast on is fun!

3/26/2016 3:03 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/26/2016 3:04 PM

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they are still using and developing them in snowmobiles, karting and scooters.
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