Has Fitness become to predominant over Ability?

TransMotoSport
Edited Date/Time 4/30/2016 8:28am
My last bike was a 2012 KTM 350 which i sold last year, one of the easiest bikes of its era to ride fast. Yesterday I rode the 2016 KTM 350, Even easier to ride and go fast, amazing how user friendly.
I was riding it on a trail i used to ride my 1999 Husky 125. I'm riding thinking, riding at 60% effort I'm going faster than if i was on that Husky 125 in my prime at 30 years old. Seeing as I am 47 and havent ridden much in 2 years, that seems bizarre
Given all test on factories bikes i have read, mention how user friendly the motors are and abundant with torque.
Have MX bikes become to user friendly making the scale tilt too far towards fitness and not ability? If so, how would you fix that?
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Plugga
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Plugga 4/29/2016 3:54pm
4/29/2016 3:54pm
TransMotoSport wrote:
My last bike was a 2012 KTM 350 which i sold last year, one of the easiest bikes of its era to ride fast. Yesterday I...
My last bike was a 2012 KTM 350 which i sold last year, one of the easiest bikes of its era to ride fast. Yesterday I rode the 2016 KTM 350, Even easier to ride and go fast, amazing how user friendly.
I was riding it on a trail i used to ride my 1999 Husky 125. I'm riding thinking, riding at 60% effort I'm going faster than if i was on that Husky 125 in my prime at 30 years old. Seeing as I am 47 and havent ridden much in 2 years, that seems bizarre
Given all test on factories bikes i have read, mention how user friendly the motors are and abundant with torque.
Have MX bikes become to user friendly making the scale tilt too far towards fitness and not ability? If so, how would you fix that?
Yes. So if you get beat by a guy on a 2 stroke you need to up your game.
mxbrady551
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mxbrady551 4/29/2016 3:57pm
4/29/2016 3:57pm
I assume you meant predominant but the short answer is no.

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brimx153
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brimx153 4/29/2016 4:49pm
4/29/2016 4:49pm
Imo you need to be fitter to ride a two stroke flat out for a moto . yes they are lighter but the way they put power down uses alot of energy to get right ,and lot more body movement . Ability in Motocross will always win in most cases . especially down at lower levels. the Less ability on the bike the more you have to move ,the more you fight the bike the fitter you need to be . One thing tho .being fit and bike fit are two different things . It takes alot of seat time to get fit for long moto s. I know for a fact that there loads of guys that i am fitter than .Yet they ride so much they can last alot longer on the bike ,than me

ps. i think in the pro s any top 10 rider is fit enough to win . it comes down to Ability .
The Rock
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The Rock 4/29/2016 5:25pm
4/29/2016 5:25pm
mxbrady551 wrote:
I assume you meant predominant but the short answer is no.
This ^^^^
vetmxr
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vetmxr 4/29/2016 5:32pm
4/29/2016 5:32pm
Being very fit will really help with results on the local scene, but In my opinion talent , not fitness will get you much farther in the pro ranks. I have a 50 plus year old friend thats an ex pro (won't use his name, don't like name droppers,) who doesn't ride much any more. Is not in the best of shape by any means, but he is so freaking talented that he can go out and work just about any expert on a mx track just by riding at 70% for him, and he can ride at that pace all day. It amazes me how he can effortlessly cut through guys that look like they're hauling ass while he looks calm cool and collected the whole time, even leisurely. But if you can push him out of his comfort zone, he's screwed in 2 laps, his heart rate goes up, his arms pump and he's gassed.

I hate riding with him.....he only rides as fast as he needs to win, so every once in a while when he lets his guard down,you seem to catch him and try to take it to him, giving it all you have only to have him turn around to see who it is and nonchalantly immediately gap you just enough for you to not be a "problem" anymore. No amount of working out for me is going to make me competitive with him.
usafwx
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usafwx 4/29/2016 5:33pm
4/29/2016 5:33pm
no, still takes skill. I got into the sport late (raised by single mom who couldnt afford it) at age 27, here I am at almost 31 and just finally getting the hang of doubles, step up's, clutch, seat bouncing, body position, etc. and still feel like a giant squid. It will always be 90% rider, since the field is stacked with highly skilled guys, fitness and nutrition is that little extra that now makes all the difference, along with some other factors of course, but will always boil down to the athlete especially since the playing field in regards to the bikes (non privateer of course) is pretty damn even.
TransMotoSport 4/29/2016 7:14pm
4/29/2016 7:14pm
vetmxr wrote:
Being very fit will really help with results on the local scene, but In my opinion talent , not fitness will get you much farther in...
Being very fit will really help with results on the local scene, but In my opinion talent , not fitness will get you much farther in the pro ranks. I have a 50 plus year old friend thats an ex pro (won't use his name, don't like name droppers,) who doesn't ride much any more. Is not in the best of shape by any means, but he is so freaking talented that he can go out and work just about any expert on a mx track just by riding at 70% for him, and he can ride at that pace all day. It amazes me how he can effortlessly cut through guys that look like they're hauling ass while he looks calm cool and collected the whole time, even leisurely. But if you can push him out of his comfort zone, he's screwed in 2 laps, his heart rate goes up, his arms pump and he's gassed.

I hate riding with him.....he only rides as fast as he needs to win, so every once in a while when he lets his guard down,you seem to catch him and try to take it to him, giving it all you have only to have him turn around to see who it is and nonchalantly immediately gap you just enough for you to not be a "problem" anymore. No amount of working out for me is going to make me competitive with him.
Vetmxr, most people in the thread agreed with you, so i am not actually singling only your post with my reply. I understand how talented every rider is that makes a SX night show, or qualifies for a MX national. I do not mean can a much less talented rider win with fitness.
What I mean is has the sport been caused to tip a little to far on the fitness versus's skills ratio because of how easy the motorcycles are to ride.
I would be interested to know a rider like Chad Reeds charted fitness in 2004 compared to 2016. Maybe its the same maybe not.
My point being, I feel there is a possibility in 2004, if you broke requirements to win a main event into portions, 2004 would show a larger portion of, lets not say rider ability, let me say bike control. to fitness then it does in 2016. It may be minute but i feel its there, and is still trending this way.
ob
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ob 4/29/2016 8:22pm
4/29/2016 8:22pm
Most guys don't hit there max fitness until 30 something. About the time most pros start to slow down. Why is that?
temporarily_locked 4/29/2016 9:09pm
4/29/2016 9:09pm
TransMotoSport wrote:
Vetmxr, most people in the thread agreed with you, so i am not actually singling only your post with my reply. I understand how talented every...
Vetmxr, most people in the thread agreed with you, so i am not actually singling only your post with my reply. I understand how talented every rider is that makes a SX night show, or qualifies for a MX national. I do not mean can a much less talented rider win with fitness.
What I mean is has the sport been caused to tip a little to far on the fitness versus's skills ratio because of how easy the motorcycles are to ride.
I would be interested to know a rider like Chad Reeds charted fitness in 2004 compared to 2016. Maybe its the same maybe not.
My point being, I feel there is a possibility in 2004, if you broke requirements to win a main event into portions, 2004 would show a larger portion of, lets not say rider ability, let me say bike control. to fitness then it does in 2016. It may be minute but i feel its there, and is still trending this way.
For me personally the 250 two stroke is more tiring to ride fast for a moto then a 450. I don't know if that translates correctly to the pro ranks. I'd argue that if anything, the proportions you mention stay the same, or are leaning more toward rider skill then fitness. Easier bikes to ride, brings everyone closer speed wise, then you have to be even more skilled to best your competition consistently.
CASH476
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CASH476 4/29/2016 10:05pm
4/29/2016 10:05pm
Doesn't matter what you are riding, the guy who is fastest & runs out front doesn't do it because he is fit. It's because he is can go faster than the rest. If he is fit enough he can stay there for the whole race
Ted722
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Ted722 4/29/2016 11:02pm
4/29/2016 11:02pm
Imagine how fast you would have ridden that trail at 30 on the 350. On a current 4 stroke doesn't take much to achieve faster speeds with less effort.
Katoomey
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Katoomey 4/29/2016 11:11pm
4/29/2016 11:11pm
TransMotoSport wrote:
My last bike was a 2012 KTM 350 which i sold last year, one of the easiest bikes of its era to ride fast. Yesterday I...
My last bike was a 2012 KTM 350 which i sold last year, one of the easiest bikes of its era to ride fast. Yesterday I rode the 2016 KTM 350, Even easier to ride and go fast, amazing how user friendly.
I was riding it on a trail i used to ride my 1999 Husky 125. I'm riding thinking, riding at 60% effort I'm going faster than if i was on that Husky 125 in my prime at 30 years old. Seeing as I am 47 and havent ridden much in 2 years, that seems bizarre
Given all test on factories bikes i have read, mention how user friendly the motors are and abundant with torque.
Have MX bikes become to user friendly making the scale tilt too far towards fitness and not ability? If so, how would you fix that?
If the bikes take less effort to ride now, then why would fitness be more of a factor now? that's sort of an oxymoron...
TransMotoSport 4/30/2016 4:05am
4/30/2016 4:05am
TransMotoSport wrote:
My last bike was a 2012 KTM 350 which i sold last year, one of the easiest bikes of its era to ride fast. Yesterday I...
My last bike was a 2012 KTM 350 which i sold last year, one of the easiest bikes of its era to ride fast. Yesterday I rode the 2016 KTM 350, Even easier to ride and go fast, amazing how user friendly.
I was riding it on a trail i used to ride my 1999 Husky 125. I'm riding thinking, riding at 60% effort I'm going faster than if i was on that Husky 125 in my prime at 30 years old. Seeing as I am 47 and havent ridden much in 2 years, that seems bizarre
Given all test on factories bikes i have read, mention how user friendly the motors are and abundant with torque.
Have MX bikes become to user friendly making the scale tilt too far towards fitness and not ability? If so, how would you fix that?
Katoomey wrote:
If the bikes take less effort to ride now, then why would fitness be more of a factor now? that's sort of an oxymoron...
yeah your right, and that could be argued. Also i am not saying the current riders are less skilled, I would think they are more skilled than in the past. My point being the new motorcycles are less technical to ride, physical conditioning is playing a larger part in determining the outcome than ever before. IMO
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 4/30/2016 4:47am
4/30/2016 4:47am
Riding a trail fast is nothing like riding a Mx or sx track fast. The new bikes help on over/under jumping and braking bumps!
motogrady
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motogrady 4/30/2016 5:12am
4/30/2016 5:12am
TransMotoSport wrote:
My last bike was a 2012 KTM 350 which i sold last year, one of the easiest bikes of its era to ride fast. Yesterday I...
My last bike was a 2012 KTM 350 which i sold last year, one of the easiest bikes of its era to ride fast. Yesterday I rode the 2016 KTM 350, Even easier to ride and go fast, amazing how user friendly.
I was riding it on a trail i used to ride my 1999 Husky 125. I'm riding thinking, riding at 60% effort I'm going faster than if i was on that Husky 125 in my prime at 30 years old. Seeing as I am 47 and havent ridden much in 2 years, that seems bizarre
Given all test on factories bikes i have read, mention how user friendly the motors are and abundant with torque.
Have MX bikes become to user friendly making the scale tilt too far towards fitness and not ability? If so, how would you fix that?
Katoomey wrote:
If the bikes take less effort to ride now, then why would fitness be more of a factor now? that's sort of an oxymoron...

Because it's not just one guy on a new bike.
Most everyone that is current will be on new bikes.
So, it's still gonna be the guy that is most fit that will be pushing it harder than the rest at the end.
He will be going faster.

What, you think the new bikes are so good it's like sitting on a couch playing video games?
h&m_cycle
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h&m_cycle 4/30/2016 5:25am
4/30/2016 5:25am
That what kills me when people talk about what incredible shape athletes in general are...
It's their Job... They can get the sleep & rest they need to workout hard...

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TransMotoSport 4/30/2016 6:18am
4/30/2016 6:18am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Riding a trail fast is nothing like riding a Mx or sx track fast. The new bikes help on over/under jumping and braking bumps!
yes agreed i have raced MX and SX its not the same as trail riding
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 4/30/2016 6:22am
4/30/2016 6:22am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Riding a trail fast is nothing like riding a Mx or sx track fast. The new bikes help on over/under jumping and braking bumps!
TransMotoSport wrote:
yes agreed i have raced MX and SX its not the same as trail riding
I wasn't implying you hadn't or didn't know, I was just pointing out that really the tracks have changed right along with the bikes, really almost equalizing the new vs old when riding new tracks vs old tracks. The trails have stayed the same.
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davistld01 4/30/2016 7:27am
4/30/2016 7:27am
ob wrote:
Most guys don't hit there max fitness until 30 something. About the time most pros start to slow down. Why is that?
Most successful pros have been racing since they were tots, and by the time they reach 30...the beating that racing gives their bodies starts to take a serious toll. If you'll notice, most riders who race into their 30's tend to fall more, get injured more often, and have a slowing of reaction times as compared to when they were younger. "Most guys" may hit their fitness peak in their 30's...but they don't have such a history of pushing themselves to the limit over the years like racers do.

My opinion...
Revel Stoked 4/30/2016 7:28am
4/30/2016 7:28am
Fitness? They all look like they've been fitness package of kit kats in their mouths.

Katoomey
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Katoomey 4/30/2016 7:44am
4/30/2016 7:44am
TransMotoSport wrote:
My last bike was a 2012 KTM 350 which i sold last year, one of the easiest bikes of its era to ride fast. Yesterday I...
My last bike was a 2012 KTM 350 which i sold last year, one of the easiest bikes of its era to ride fast. Yesterday I rode the 2016 KTM 350, Even easier to ride and go fast, amazing how user friendly.
I was riding it on a trail i used to ride my 1999 Husky 125. I'm riding thinking, riding at 60% effort I'm going faster than if i was on that Husky 125 in my prime at 30 years old. Seeing as I am 47 and havent ridden much in 2 years, that seems bizarre
Given all test on factories bikes i have read, mention how user friendly the motors are and abundant with torque.
Have MX bikes become to user friendly making the scale tilt too far towards fitness and not ability? If so, how would you fix that?
Katoomey wrote:
If the bikes take less effort to ride now, then why would fitness be more of a factor now? that's sort of an oxymoron...
motogrady wrote:
Because it's not just one guy on a new bike. Most everyone that is current will be on new bikes. So, it's still gonna be the...

Because it's not just one guy on a new bike.
Most everyone that is current will be on new bikes.
So, it's still gonna be the guy that is most fit that will be pushing it harder than the rest at the end.
He will be going faster.

What, you think the new bikes are so good it's like sitting on a couch playing video games?
I was just posing the question for arguments sake. Fitness is no more relevant now then it was at sny other time


I ride and race regularly on both state of the art and vintage equipment. ...its all the same, new bikes just go faster. Thats the trade off. Old bikes take more effort but everything comes at you slower. The intensity of riding a 60 hp bike with awesome suspension is higher. Things are happening so quickly.

So i guess you could say the older a bike is the more physically draining they can be, whiile the newest bikes can be more mentally draining. Most of us know that both of those stresses manifest themselves essentially the same way at the end of a race- fatigue.

In my opinion, its a wash.
mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 4/30/2016 8:01am
4/30/2016 8:01am
TransMotoSport wrote:
Vetmxr, most people in the thread agreed with you, so i am not actually singling only your post with my reply. I understand how talented every...
Vetmxr, most people in the thread agreed with you, so i am not actually singling only your post with my reply. I understand how talented every rider is that makes a SX night show, or qualifies for a MX national. I do not mean can a much less talented rider win with fitness.
What I mean is has the sport been caused to tip a little to far on the fitness versus's skills ratio because of how easy the motorcycles are to ride.
I would be interested to know a rider like Chad Reeds charted fitness in 2004 compared to 2016. Maybe its the same maybe not.
My point being, I feel there is a possibility in 2004, if you broke requirements to win a main event into portions, 2004 would show a larger portion of, lets not say rider ability, let me say bike control. to fitness then it does in 2016. It may be minute but i feel its there, and is still trending this way.
temporarily_locked wrote:
For me personally the 250 two stroke is more tiring to ride fast for a moto then a 450. I don't know if that translates correctly...
For me personally the 250 two stroke is more tiring to ride fast for a moto then a 450. I don't know if that translates correctly to the pro ranks. I'd argue that if anything, the proportions you mention stay the same, or are leaning more toward rider skill then fitness. Easier bikes to ride, brings everyone closer speed wise, then you have to be even more skilled to best your competition consistently.
http://youtu.be/6nmmh67R6_E

Just watch this video and James says after 2 laps he had arm pump. I agree that A 250 2 stroke is much more tiring to ride compared to riding a 450 at the same speed.
Moto Psychic 4/30/2016 8:28am
4/30/2016 8:28am
hvaughn88 wrote:
Here comes the 2 vs 4 debate
Haha I was thinking the same exact thing when I saw this topic had been posted. How about we all split the difference and ride 3 strokes??

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