Hard Enduro World Championship drama.... Is the FIM playing favorites?

LungButter
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LungButter
Yeah, yeah....I know that most of ya'll don't care about off road but this is some of the only legit racing still going on and it's down to the last round, with some FIM drama thrown in to boot.

https://enduro21.com/en/racing/latest/hard-enduro-world-championship/hi…

I'm a Manni fan for sure but it does seem a little odd that him and Graham did basically the same thing and got vastly different penalties.
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nrosso391
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nrosso391 10/6/2022 9:06am
10/6/2022 9:06am
As if we needed more evidence as to why FIM is a joke...
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toomanykaws
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toomanykaws 10/6/2022 9:12am
10/6/2022 9:12am
Over the years. Some of the calls and penalty’s make one think. Am a GForce fan. Most humble rider at the top. What they did to him at Erzberg was ridiculous. Basically start last an hour down. But we will just DQ you. Also a Mario fan. Like to see him win the championship this year.
XC706
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XC706 10/6/2022 9:13am
10/6/2022 9:13am
FIM = clown show. This explains why the CMA has been able to keep the FIM affiliate for all these decades. They are a match made in heaven.
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Broseph
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Broseph 10/6/2022 9:18am
10/6/2022 9:18am Edited Date/Time 10/6/2022 9:20am
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship.

Probably why they’re waiting to decide until after the final race. Easier to tip the scales when you know just how much tipping they need to produce the desired outcome.
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LungButter
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LungButter 10/6/2022 9:26am
10/6/2022 9:26am
Broseph wrote:
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship. Probably why...
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship.

Probably why they’re waiting to decide until after the final race. Easier to tip the scales when you know just how much tipping they need to produce the desired outcome.
I think you're right.

I also think that Manni is the best rider who deserves the title, he missed a round and still has a points led. Won damn near every race since he came back.

Graham didn't deserve to be disqualified the way I understand it, he was within the rules because his "outside assistance" came from another rider. Erzberg folks sure hate Graham though, he's been DQ'd there for silly stuff more than once.
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XC706
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XC706 10/6/2022 9:33am
10/6/2022 9:33am
Broseph wrote:
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship. Probably why...
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship.

Probably why they’re waiting to decide until after the final race. Easier to tip the scales when you know just how much tipping they need to produce the desired outcome.
Yep, waiting until after the final to tip it in the direction the FIM wants it go. If they give Graham his points back that go's against their rule book which clearly states any outside assistance is a DQ - although it would not surprise me in the least for them to do that.
Elliot
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Elliot 10/6/2022 9:35am
10/6/2022 9:35am
Isn't the problem that the individual race promoter sets the no help zone rules and not the FIM?
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XC706 10/6/2022 9:38am
10/6/2022 9:38am
Elliot wrote:
Isn't the problem that the individual race promoter sets the no help zone rules and not the FIM?
No, under the new FIM rules the entire race course is a no help zone.
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Broseph 10/6/2022 9:39am
10/6/2022 9:39am
Broseph wrote:
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship. Probably why...
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship.

Probably why they’re waiting to decide until after the final race. Easier to tip the scales when you know just how much tipping they need to produce the desired outcome.
LungButter wrote:
I think you're right. I also think that Manni is the best rider who deserves the title, he missed a round and still has a points...
I think you're right.

I also think that Manni is the best rider who deserves the title, he missed a round and still has a points led. Won damn near every race since he came back.

Graham didn't deserve to be disqualified the way I understand it, he was within the rules because his "outside assistance" came from another rider. Erzberg folks sure hate Graham though, he's been DQ'd there for silly stuff more than once.
I agree. Manni and Billy are the top two for sure (with Trystan on a good trajectory to be there as well in a year or two). Will be fun to watch those three battle for the next 5-10 years!

Forgive my ignorance, but what’s the story behind Graham vs the Erzberg guys? Some history there?
LungButter
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LungButter 10/6/2022 9:40am
10/6/2022 9:40am
XC706 wrote:
No, under the new FIM rules the entire race course is a no help zone.
But fellow competitors can still help each other. Just no outside assistance.

Graham got help from another rider is what I remember reading and seeing. Maybe the FIM thought that wasn't "fair play" since the rider who helped him was a back marker who had rented a bike from Graham to do the race?

I don't remember reading or seeing if Manni got help from another rider or someone from the outside?
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Elliot
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Elliot 10/6/2022 9:42am
10/6/2022 9:42am
It's a complete joke that the season will finish without knowing who won.
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Elliot
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Elliot 10/6/2022 9:48am
10/6/2022 9:48am
Elliot wrote:
Isn't the problem that the individual race promoter sets the no help zone rules and not the FIM?
XC706 wrote:
No, under the new FIM rules the entire race course is a no help zone.
Well I just remember reading this and thinking it was Karl Katoch who decided Erzberg was all a no help zone in '22.

https://enduro21.com/en/racing/latest/hard-enduro-world-championship/no…
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XC706 10/6/2022 9:57am
10/6/2022 9:57am
Broseph wrote:
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship. Probably why...
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship.

Probably why they’re waiting to decide until after the final race. Easier to tip the scales when you know just how much tipping they need to produce the desired outcome.
LungButter wrote:
I think you're right. I also think that Manni is the best rider who deserves the title, he missed a round and still has a points...
I think you're right.

I also think that Manni is the best rider who deserves the title, he missed a round and still has a points led. Won damn near every race since he came back.

Graham didn't deserve to be disqualified the way I understand it, he was within the rules because his "outside assistance" came from another rider. Erzberg folks sure hate Graham though, he's been DQ'd there for silly stuff more than once.
Broseph wrote:
I agree. Manni and Billy are the top two for sure (with Trystan on a good trajectory to be there as well in a year or...
I agree. Manni and Billy are the top two for sure (with Trystan on a good trajectory to be there as well in a year or two). Will be fun to watch those three battle for the next 5-10 years!

Forgive my ignorance, but what’s the story behind Graham vs the Erzberg guys? Some history there?
I could not agree more about Tristan racing the entire series, but if he re signs with KTM (contract is up this year ) he will not be able to race the entire series - that has been confirmed.
Maybe some other manufacturer will back a dumptruck load full of money up to his door like Sherco did with Cody Webb.
LungButter
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LungButter 10/6/2022 10:04am
10/6/2022 10:04am
XC706 wrote:
I could not agree more about Tristan racing the entire series, but if he re signs with KTM (contract is up this year ) he will...
I could not agree more about Tristan racing the entire series, but if he re signs with KTM (contract is up this year ) he will not be able to race the entire series - that has been confirmed.
Maybe some other manufacturer will back a dumptruck load full of money up to his door like Sherco did with Cody Webb.
It'd have to be Sherco. Doesn't seem like Beta has the budget (or maybe it's just they don't want to) to field a top team in Hard Enduro.

Sherco is pretty set though with Mario and Wade for HEWC and if I had to guess a big part of the budget to hire Cody came from his personal Red Bull deal.

I suppose Rieju could step up too but their bike is getting a little long in the tooth and I don't really remember anyone having big success in the extreme world on it even when they were still Gas Gas.

I can completely understand Tristan wanting to take on a bigger challenge but he's also set to be "The Man" in US Hard Enduro for at least a few more years, if it were me I'd stay where he is I think.

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Broseph
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Broseph 10/6/2022 10:22am
10/6/2022 10:22am
LungButter wrote:
I think you're right. I also think that Manni is the best rider who deserves the title, he missed a round and still has a points...
I think you're right.

I also think that Manni is the best rider who deserves the title, he missed a round and still has a points led. Won damn near every race since he came back.

Graham didn't deserve to be disqualified the way I understand it, he was within the rules because his "outside assistance" came from another rider. Erzberg folks sure hate Graham though, he's been DQ'd there for silly stuff more than once.
Broseph wrote:
I agree. Manni and Billy are the top two for sure (with Trystan on a good trajectory to be there as well in a year or...
I agree. Manni and Billy are the top two for sure (with Trystan on a good trajectory to be there as well in a year or two). Will be fun to watch those three battle for the next 5-10 years!

Forgive my ignorance, but what’s the story behind Graham vs the Erzberg guys? Some history there?
XC706 wrote:
I could not agree more about Tristan racing the entire series, but if he re signs with KTM (contract is up this year ) he will...
I could not agree more about Tristan racing the entire series, but if he re signs with KTM (contract is up this year ) he will not be able to race the entire series - that has been confirmed.
Maybe some other manufacturer will back a dumptruck load full of money up to his door like Sherco did with Cody Webb.
Shoot, I didn’t know that about Trystan’s contract. He’s got so much talent, it’s almost unfair to have him US only. Is there anyone else about to step up to his level in the US? Jonny Walker and Taddy are here for Endurocross… don’t suppose they stick around?
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toomanykaws 10/6/2022 11:28am
10/6/2022 11:28am
If they were sticking to their rule about outside help Manni wouldn’t have been let back in the race with just the time penalty. Sure seems like they adjust their rules as needed.
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swordfish 10/6/2022 11:34am
10/6/2022 11:34am
Grahams mechanic got into a nice shouting match with Manni today walking the course over the whole BS.
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swordfish 10/6/2022 11:35am
10/6/2022 11:35am
Trystan decided a few days ago to race the last event in Spain.

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swordfish 10/6/2022 11:36am
10/6/2022 11:36am
Taddy too. Blockers for Mario.
Everyone is rooting for Mario.
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XC706 10/6/2022 11:41am
10/6/2022 11:41am
Broseph wrote:
I agree. Manni and Billy are the top two for sure (with Trystan on a good trajectory to be there as well in a year or...
I agree. Manni and Billy are the top two for sure (with Trystan on a good trajectory to be there as well in a year or two). Will be fun to watch those three battle for the next 5-10 years!

Forgive my ignorance, but what’s the story behind Graham vs the Erzberg guys? Some history there?
XC706 wrote:
I could not agree more about Tristan racing the entire series, but if he re signs with KTM (contract is up this year ) he will...
I could not agree more about Tristan racing the entire series, but if he re signs with KTM (contract is up this year ) he will not be able to race the entire series - that has been confirmed.
Maybe some other manufacturer will back a dumptruck load full of money up to his door like Sherco did with Cody Webb.
Broseph wrote:
Shoot, I didn’t know that about Trystan’s contract. He’s got so much talent, it’s almost unfair to have him US only. Is there anyone else about...
Shoot, I didn’t know that about Trystan’s contract. He’s got so much talent, it’s almost unfair to have him US only. Is there anyone else about to step up to his level in the US? Jonny Walker and Taddy are here for Endurocross… don’t suppose they stick around?
It won't be Taddy, he announced right after crossing the finish line at Outliers he is retiring from Hard enduro and this was his last race.
Likely still see him race Endurocross still next year.
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swordfish 10/6/2022 11:45am
10/6/2022 11:45am
XC706 wrote:
I could not agree more about Tristan racing the entire series, but if he re signs with KTM (contract is up this year ) he will...
I could not agree more about Tristan racing the entire series, but if he re signs with KTM (contract is up this year ) he will not be able to race the entire series - that has been confirmed.
Maybe some other manufacturer will back a dumptruck load full of money up to his door like Sherco did with Cody Webb.
Broseph wrote:
Shoot, I didn’t know that about Trystan’s contract. He’s got so much talent, it’s almost unfair to have him US only. Is there anyone else about...
Shoot, I didn’t know that about Trystan’s contract. He’s got so much talent, it’s almost unfair to have him US only. Is there anyone else about to step up to his level in the US? Jonny Walker and Taddy are here for Endurocross… don’t suppose they stick around?
XC706 wrote:
It won't be Taddy, he announced right after crossing the finish line at Outliers he is retiring from Hard enduro and this was his last race...
It won't be Taddy, he announced right after crossing the finish line at Outliers he is retiring from Hard enduro and this was his last race.
Likely still see him race Endurocross still next year.
He’s there and he said he’s racing.
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swordfish 10/6/2022 11:46am
10/6/2022 11:46am
Looks like KTM called in the troops to try and put a gap on Mario. They want the championship.
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XC706 10/6/2022 11:49am
10/6/2022 11:49am
Broseph wrote:
Shoot, I didn’t know that about Trystan’s contract. He’s got so much talent, it’s almost unfair to have him US only. Is there anyone else about...
Shoot, I didn’t know that about Trystan’s contract. He’s got so much talent, it’s almost unfair to have him US only. Is there anyone else about to step up to his level in the US? Jonny Walker and Taddy are here for Endurocross… don’t suppose they stick around?
XC706 wrote:
It won't be Taddy, he announced right after crossing the finish line at Outliers he is retiring from Hard enduro and this was his last race...
It won't be Taddy, he announced right after crossing the finish line at Outliers he is retiring from Hard enduro and this was his last race.
Likely still see him race Endurocross still next year.
swordfish wrote:
He’s there and he said he’s racing.
Pretty sure Broseph is referring to next year. Tristan and Taddy racing Spain this weekend was not happening until this FIM shit show was dropped .
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Crossup
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Crossup 10/6/2022 11:54am
10/6/2022 11:54am
Broseph wrote:
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship. Probably why...
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship.

Probably why they’re waiting to decide until after the final race. Easier to tip the scales when you know just how much tipping they need to produce the desired outcome.
LungButter wrote:
I think you're right. I also think that Manni is the best rider who deserves the title, he missed a round and still has a points...
I think you're right.

I also think that Manni is the best rider who deserves the title, he missed a round and still has a points led. Won damn near every race since he came back.

Graham didn't deserve to be disqualified the way I understand it, he was within the rules because his "outside assistance" came from another rider. Erzberg folks sure hate Graham though, he's been DQ'd there for silly stuff more than once.
Yeah except Mannis father wearing a media vest was pointing out lines for him in Carl's Dinner and that was supposed to be no assistance there this year. No Penalty.
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swordfish 10/6/2022 11:59am
10/6/2022 11:59am
Broseph wrote:
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship. Probably why...
I’m thinking they’ll just give Graham some of his Erzberg points back to make the penalties even and ensure Manni still wins the championship.

Probably why they’re waiting to decide until after the final race. Easier to tip the scales when you know just how much tipping they need to produce the desired outcome.
LungButter wrote:
I think you're right. I also think that Manni is the best rider who deserves the title, he missed a round and still has a points...
I think you're right.

I also think that Manni is the best rider who deserves the title, he missed a round and still has a points led. Won damn near every race since he came back.

Graham didn't deserve to be disqualified the way I understand it, he was within the rules because his "outside assistance" came from another rider. Erzberg folks sure hate Graham though, he's been DQ'd there for silly stuff more than once.
Crossup wrote:
Yeah except Mannis father wearing a media vest was pointing out lines for him in Carl's Dinner and that was supposed to be no assistance there...
Yeah except Mannis father wearing a media vest was pointing out lines for him in Carl's Dinner and that was supposed to be no assistance there this year. No Penalty.
I got lots of pics of that. Trystans dad was mega pissed.
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swordfish 10/6/2022 12:00pm
10/6/2022 12:00pm
XC706 wrote:
It won't be Taddy, he announced right after crossing the finish line at Outliers he is retiring from Hard enduro and this was his last race...
It won't be Taddy, he announced right after crossing the finish line at Outliers he is retiring from Hard enduro and this was his last race.
Likely still see him race Endurocross still next year.
swordfish wrote:
He’s there and he said he’s racing.
XC706 wrote:
Pretty sure Broseph is referring to next year. Tristan and Taddy racing Spain this weekend was not happening until this FIM shit show was dropped .
Yep.
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swordfish 10/6/2022 12:01pm
10/6/2022 12:01pm
XC706 wrote:
It won't be Taddy, he announced right after crossing the finish line at Outliers he is retiring from Hard enduro and this was his last race...
It won't be Taddy, he announced right after crossing the finish line at Outliers he is retiring from Hard enduro and this was his last race.
Likely still see him race Endurocross still next year.
swordfish wrote:
He’s there and he said he’s racing.
XC706 wrote:
Pretty sure Broseph is referring to next year. Tristan and Taddy racing Spain this weekend was not happening until this FIM shit show was dropped .
No idea, I’m talking this weekend.
DUCati227
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DUCati227 10/6/2022 12:25pm
10/6/2022 12:25pm
Seams to me FIM favors the KTM group... about the same as the AMA (all series) favors Yamaha.

But, I'll be honest I do not follow the HEWC as well as I should.
chrisclifford 10/6/2022 1:16pm
10/6/2022 1:16pm
Broseph wrote:
I agree. Manni and Billy are the top two for sure (with Trystan on a good trajectory to be there as well in a year or...
I agree. Manni and Billy are the top two for sure (with Trystan on a good trajectory to be there as well in a year or two). Will be fun to watch those three battle for the next 5-10 years!

Forgive my ignorance, but what’s the story behind Graham vs the Erzberg guys? Some history there?
XC706 wrote:
I could not agree more about Tristan racing the entire series, but if he re signs with KTM (contract is up this year ) he will...
I could not agree more about Tristan racing the entire series, but if he re signs with KTM (contract is up this year ) he will not be able to race the entire series - that has been confirmed.
Maybe some other manufacturer will back a dumptruck load full of money up to his door like Sherco did with Cody Webb.
Broseph wrote:
Shoot, I didn’t know that about Trystan’s contract. He’s got so much talent, it’s almost unfair to have him US only. Is there anyone else about...
Shoot, I didn’t know that about Trystan’s contract. He’s got so much talent, it’s almost unfair to have him US only. Is there anyone else about to step up to his level in the US? Jonny Walker and Taddy are here for Endurocross… don’t suppose they stick around?
They'll be back to Europe after EX ends. Trystan is way too good to be US only, but I'm sure KTM would rather have him dominating easy competition here since they already have a rider who can win the HEWC
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mbw479 10/6/2022 1:29pm
10/6/2022 1:29pm
LungButter wrote:
Yeah, yeah....I know that most of ya'll don't care about off road but this is some of the only legit racing still going on and it's...
Yeah, yeah....I know that most of ya'll don't care about off road but this is some of the only legit racing still going on and it's down to the last round, with some FIM drama thrown in to boot.

https://enduro21.com/en/racing/latest/hard-enduro-world-championship/hi…

I'm a Manni fan for sure but it does seem a little odd that him and Graham did basically the same thing and got vastly different penalties.
Nothing new, the AMA did the same thing with RC and Reed over a fuel violation. Reed lost 25 points, RC kept his. If RC lost the 25 points he would have 1 less championship.
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