Hands get fatigued quickly and painful - bars, grips?

ajk423
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Saint Louis, MO US
9/6/2020 9:38am
JN137 wrote:
Do you notice the same problem with activities non-moto related? The reason I ask is I had this issue for years when I was racing. It...
Do you notice the same problem with activities non-moto related?

The reason I ask is I had this issue for years when I was racing. It was horrible. And a very different issue than your typical "arm pump" it was always my hands. And it was painful. For years I had to listen to people give me every solution under the sun - You're holding on too tight, use your knees more, take vitamin B-12, no sugar in your diet, etc. Mind you I was riding 3-4 times a week consistently, so this was hardly a seat time issue. The worst part was that it always held me back, because my speed and fitness were ALWAYS far superior to what I could actually produce on the racetrack because my hands were such a problem, I simply couldn't hold on to the bars after a certain point.

Anyways, fast-forward years later (I quit racing in 2011, then rode again 2014-2016) and I've learned the problem for me doesn't stem from MX at all, but rather is an issue I have just in general.. I experience the same problem top this day, doing simple tasks with my hands, such as using a screwdriver or a garden hose. Maybe it's carpel tunnel, or a nerve issue.. I'm really not sure, but it sucks and it affected my time racing motocross in a big way.
kb228 wrote:
I notice the same as well. Screw drivers, pencils etc. its always the golf ball muscle in between my thumb and index.
This is exact problem I have. Its not "arm pump." Its in between my thumb and index. If anyone has a solution to this Id love to hear it. And I dont get the whole seat time will help thing. Theres no way I can ride as much as the pros do and they still get arm pump, should someone just tell them to ride more?
1
TbonesPop
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9/6/2020 10:36am
JN137 wrote:
Do you notice the same problem with activities non-moto related? The reason I ask is I had this issue for years when I was racing. It...
Do you notice the same problem with activities non-moto related?

The reason I ask is I had this issue for years when I was racing. It was horrible. And a very different issue than your typical "arm pump" it was always my hands. And it was painful. For years I had to listen to people give me every solution under the sun - You're holding on too tight, use your knees more, take vitamin B-12, no sugar in your diet, etc. Mind you I was riding 3-4 times a week consistently, so this was hardly a seat time issue. The worst part was that it always held me back, because my speed and fitness were ALWAYS far superior to what I could actually produce on the racetrack because my hands were such a problem, I simply couldn't hold on to the bars after a certain point.

Anyways, fast-forward years later (I quit racing in 2011, then rode again 2014-2016) and I've learned the problem for me doesn't stem from MX at all, but rather is an issue I have just in general.. I experience the same problem top this day, doing simple tasks with my hands, such as using a screwdriver or a garden hose. Maybe it's carpel tunnel, or a nerve issue.. I'm really not sure, but it sucks and it affected my time racing motocross in a big way.
kb228 wrote:
I notice the same as well. Screw drivers, pencils etc. its always the golf ball muscle in between my thumb and index.
ajk423 wrote:
This is exact problem I have. Its not "arm pump." Its in between my thumb and index. If anyone has a solution to this Id love...
This is exact problem I have. Its not "arm pump." Its in between my thumb and index. If anyone has a solution to this Id love to hear it. And I dont get the whole seat time will help thing. Theres no way I can ride as much as the pros do and they still get arm pump, should someone just tell them to ride more?
Do you get the same issue riding single track or is it both single track and moto? I don’t get the issue riding single track, but get it bad riding Moto. Severe cramping in my hands between thumb muscle and index finger.
dfr136
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9/6/2020 10:55am
JN137 wrote:
Do you notice the same problem with activities non-moto related? The reason I ask is I had this issue for years when I was racing. It...
Do you notice the same problem with activities non-moto related?

The reason I ask is I had this issue for years when I was racing. It was horrible. And a very different issue than your typical "arm pump" it was always my hands. And it was painful. For years I had to listen to people give me every solution under the sun - You're holding on too tight, use your knees more, take vitamin B-12, no sugar in your diet, etc. Mind you I was riding 3-4 times a week consistently, so this was hardly a seat time issue. The worst part was that it always held me back, because my speed and fitness were ALWAYS far superior to what I could actually produce on the racetrack because my hands were such a problem, I simply couldn't hold on to the bars after a certain point.

Anyways, fast-forward years later (I quit racing in 2011, then rode again 2014-2016) and I've learned the problem for me doesn't stem from MX at all, but rather is an issue I have just in general.. I experience the same problem top this day, doing simple tasks with my hands, such as using a screwdriver or a garden hose. Maybe it's carpel tunnel, or a nerve issue.. I'm really not sure, but it sucks and it affected my time racing motocross in a big way.
I have exactly the same thing for about the last ten years, have tried everything as far as bike set-up, seen a hand specialist and they sent me to a physical therapist. They gave me some exercises to do, it helped very little and its just something I live with now. I do notice I can bring the pain on doing normal tasks like just clamping something with my thumb and pointer.

Like couple other guys have said I only got it riding moto when I get on my woods bike and ride singletrack my hands feel fine.
tek14
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Vantaa FI
9/6/2020 11:13am
JN137 wrote:
Do you notice the same problem with activities non-moto related? The reason I ask is I had this issue for years when I was racing. It...
Do you notice the same problem with activities non-moto related?

The reason I ask is I had this issue for years when I was racing. It was horrible. And a very different issue than your typical "arm pump" it was always my hands. And it was painful. For years I had to listen to people give me every solution under the sun - You're holding on too tight, use your knees more, take vitamin B-12, no sugar in your diet, etc. Mind you I was riding 3-4 times a week consistently, so this was hardly a seat time issue. The worst part was that it always held me back, because my speed and fitness were ALWAYS far superior to what I could actually produce on the racetrack because my hands were such a problem, I simply couldn't hold on to the bars after a certain point.

Anyways, fast-forward years later (I quit racing in 2011, then rode again 2014-2016) and I've learned the problem for me doesn't stem from MX at all, but rather is an issue I have just in general.. I experience the same problem top this day, doing simple tasks with my hands, such as using a screwdriver or a garden hose. Maybe it's carpel tunnel, or a nerve issue.. I'm really not sure, but it sucks and it affected my time racing motocross in a big way.
kb228 wrote:
I notice the same as well. Screw drivers, pencils etc. its always the golf ball muscle in between my thumb and index.
Been riding 3-6 times week with never problems before. Started to get problems and doctors found out carpal tunnel needs surgery to make some more room. Can still ride day or two for fun but racing it not happening and some days after riding cant really feel my fingers properly. If you get numbness outside your motos better get to doctor cos any bent or grips wont help.

The Shop

Zycki11
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9/6/2020 11:58am
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque on the clamps bolts, make sure your actually putting the front wheel on correctly and ride at a decent pace to gain endurance.

Sure you can mess with the clickers and this will help with some comfort, and you can even throw on some evos to help as well. But the main issue is your body. Not the machine.
9/6/2020 12:41pm
I was having similar problems on my husqvarna 350. The only place i could ride during lockdown was a hard clay paddock that was used for...
I was having similar problems on my husqvarna 350. The only place i could ride during lockdown was a hard clay paddock that was used for cow grazing. When it was wet the cows left hoof prints everywhere which dried rock hard. After 3 laps my hands were toast!! I checked in here to vital & some guys suggested the neken sfs top air clamp. I got one & i can say it is the best part i have ever bolted onto a bike! I dont know why everyone isnt using them. I know its a lot of money but you will not be disappointed!! i havnt had sore hands since & can do a 20 min moto with no armpump. I wish they were available 20 years ago when i was in my prime.


This seems like it may help, pricier option for sure but... Comfort is worthwhile! When you were looking into this, do you remember the difference between...
This seems like it may help, pricier option for sure but... Comfort is worthwhile!
When you were looking into this, do you remember the difference between the SFS air and the spring version?
Yes i looked at the spring version but i couldnt find much info on it. The air version is definitely better as it is adjustable. I run different air pressures on different tracks. It has 10mm of travel & a rubber washer that shows you how much of the travel you are using. From my experience this only starts working once you get to the harsh part of your suspension travel. Ie when ur at the hard hits that hurt your hands. You have nothing to lose from buying one of these. If you dont think it works put it straight on ebay & you will prob only lose 50-80 dollars. Before i got mine i would wake up the next morning & my hands were still sore.

I have used PHDS bar mounts for the last 10 years. They do help a little. The neken helps a lot!!
1
9/6/2020 12:51pm
Zycki11 wrote:
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque...
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque on the clamps bolts, make sure your actually putting the front wheel on correctly and ride at a decent pace to gain endurance.

Sure you can mess with the clickers and this will help with some comfort, and you can even throw on some evos to help as well. But the main issue is your body. Not the machine.
I disagree! “ But the main issue is your body. Not the machine“

Why do top pros spend so much time setting there bikes up? Both suspension & chassis. If your bike is handling well its far easier on your body. Why make things hard for yourself. Also, we are all made different. Some guys are tall, some short. Some guys have hands like shovels & others have skinnier hands that are more sensitive. Yes you can grip with your legs more & change your style up to a point but changing the machine helps too. I know loads of pros running PHDS bar mounts to help there hands & i believe Justin Cooper runs the neken sfs. But maybe his problem is his body & he needs to ride more? & im not knocking riding more. That helps a lot. Its a combo of both.
TbonesPop
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9/6/2020 1:04pm
Zycki11 wrote:
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque...
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque on the clamps bolts, make sure your actually putting the front wheel on correctly and ride at a decent pace to gain endurance.

Sure you can mess with the clickers and this will help with some comfort, and you can even throw on some evos to help as well. But the main issue is your body. Not the machine.
I grip the bike so much with my knees that I'll rub wear marks into the shrouds so bad, I have to replace them yearly. I have Acerbis frame guards that are almost worn through the rubber. Have to replace them yearly too. Sure there may be times where I'm not gripping with me legs, but most of the time I'm locked in with the bike and my legs. Its not arm pump, its hand cramping. I specifically lose dexterity in the hands and the thumb muscle just gets super cramped. That's what hinders how much I can ride moto. Single track I can ride all day for hours and be fine.
9/6/2020 1:27pm
Zycki11 wrote:
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque...
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque on the clamps bolts, make sure your actually putting the front wheel on correctly and ride at a decent pace to gain endurance.

Sure you can mess with the clickers and this will help with some comfort, and you can even throw on some evos to help as well. But the main issue is your body. Not the machine.
TbonesPop wrote:
I grip the bike so much with my knees that I'll rub wear marks into the shrouds so bad, I have to replace them yearly. I...
I grip the bike so much with my knees that I'll rub wear marks into the shrouds so bad, I have to replace them yearly. I have Acerbis frame guards that are almost worn through the rubber. Have to replace them yearly too. Sure there may be times where I'm not gripping with me legs, but most of the time I'm locked in with the bike and my legs. Its not arm pump, its hand cramping. I specifically lose dexterity in the hands and the thumb muscle just gets super cramped. That's what hinders how much I can ride moto. Single track I can ride all day for hours and be fine.
Iv also worn my graphics through in a hole. I seen dangerUK posting here. They make grip graphics, maybe that would solve our sore hands? 🤔
ajv#26
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9/6/2020 4:11pm
For years I used RENTHAL DUAL KEVLAR Half Waffle, then I switched to Progrip 799 Super Soft GEL and I can say that Progrip in terms of comfort is better and cancels out much of the vibration transmitted by the handlebar allowing for better relaxation of the hands.
DirtBikeKid46
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Landenberg, PA US
9/6/2020 5:16pm
Im seeing a lot of expensive add on suggestions but in reality if you guys are holding on that tight with your hands you're not hanging...
Im seeing a lot of expensive add on suggestions but in reality if you guys are holding on that tight with your hands you're not hanging on to the bike with your legs hard enough I'm the most out of shape I think I've ever been and even if I can only spin a few laps the one thing that never happens to me anymore is arm pump because I hang on tight with my legs and keep my upper body loose. Every single one of my riding buddies even those who work out and stand shape all complain of arm pump riding the same amount of time I do and they all log more seat time none of them hang on very tight with their legs and it's evident by the lack of wear on the frame with some and plastics from boot rub gripping the bike with their legs and knees.

Ever since I directed my focus to squeezing the bike with my legs and relaxing my upper body I become a much more fluid better rider and feel 10 times more in control not that I wasn't hanging on before but I've made it a priority and relaxed my upper body and my grip on the handlebars
For what it's worth, I am wearing through my shrouds graphics and the stock sub laminated graphics from my knees. I also run the frame guards and the rubber is almost shot. It's pretty obvious I;m gripping with my knees, but maybe I may stop somewhere along the ride. I like your approach and would love to be more fluid and more in control.

I'm going to swap bars and grips and focus on technique a lot.
DirtBikeKid46
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Landenberg, PA US
9/6/2020 5:19pm
I was having similar problems on my husqvarna 350. The only place i could ride during lockdown was a hard clay paddock that was used for...
I was having similar problems on my husqvarna 350. The only place i could ride during lockdown was a hard clay paddock that was used for cow grazing. When it was wet the cows left hoof prints everywhere which dried rock hard. After 3 laps my hands were toast!! I checked in here to vital & some guys suggested the neken sfs top air clamp. I got one & i can say it is the best part i have ever bolted onto a bike! I dont know why everyone isnt using them. I know its a lot of money but you will not be disappointed!! i havnt had sore hands since & can do a 20 min moto with no armpump. I wish they were available 20 years ago when i was in my prime.


This seems like it may help, pricier option for sure but... Comfort is worthwhile! When you were looking into this, do you remember the difference between...
This seems like it may help, pricier option for sure but... Comfort is worthwhile!
When you were looking into this, do you remember the difference between the SFS air and the spring version?
Yes i looked at the spring version but i couldnt find much info on it. The air version is definitely better as it is adjustable. I...
Yes i looked at the spring version but i couldnt find much info on it. The air version is definitely better as it is adjustable. I run different air pressures on different tracks. It has 10mm of travel & a rubber washer that shows you how much of the travel you are using. From my experience this only starts working once you get to the harsh part of your suspension travel. Ie when ur at the hard hits that hurt your hands. You have nothing to lose from buying one of these. If you dont think it works put it straight on ebay & you will prob only lose 50-80 dollars. Before i got mine i would wake up the next morning & my hands were still sore.

I have used PHDS bar mounts for the last 10 years. They do help a little. The neken helps a lot!!
Yea, you pretty much sold me on this! lol I'm 43 and can use any additional comfort!
Zycki11
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9/6/2020 5:23pm
TbonesPop wrote:
I grip the bike so much with my knees that I'll rub wear marks into the shrouds so bad, I have to replace them yearly. I...
I grip the bike so much with my knees that I'll rub wear marks into the shrouds so bad, I have to replace them yearly. I have Acerbis frame guards that are almost worn through the rubber. Have to replace them yearly too. Sure there may be times where I'm not gripping with me legs, but most of the time I'm locked in with the bike and my legs. Its not arm pump, its hand cramping. I specifically lose dexterity in the hands and the thumb muscle just gets super cramped. That's what hinders how much I can ride moto. Single track I can ride all day for hours and be fine.
Are you staying properly hydrated?
TbonesPop
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9/6/2020 5:46pm
Zycki11 wrote:
Are you staying properly hydrated?
Absolutely. 23 years living in AZ and that is a must. Pre-hydrate all week before riding and pound water during the day along with an occasional gatorade.
UpTiTe
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9/6/2020 5:59pm
Zycki11 wrote:
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque...
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque on the clamps bolts, make sure your actually putting the front wheel on correctly and ride at a decent pace to gain endurance.

Sure you can mess with the clickers and this will help with some comfort, and you can even throw on some evos to help as well. But the main issue is your body. Not the machine.
Exactly, and this is why I mentioned loosening up the triple clamp pinch bolts a little, soften the ride.
9/6/2020 10:54pm
Zycki11 wrote:
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque...
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque on the clamps bolts, make sure your actually putting the front wheel on correctly and ride at a decent pace to gain endurance.

Sure you can mess with the clickers and this will help with some comfort, and you can even throw on some evos to help as well. But the main issue is your body. Not the machine.
UpTiTe wrote:
Exactly, and this is why I mentioned loosening up the triple clamp pinch bolts a little, soften the ride.
Wow...This is intriguing....I never torque them but this may explain the harshness
UpTiTe
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9/7/2020 9:00am
Zycki11 wrote:
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque...
Everyone mentioning the expensive components are wrong. Your hands/tendons aren’t acclimated to the roughness/endurance it takes to ride. Grip more with your knees, check the torque on the clamps bolts, make sure your actually putting the front wheel on correctly and ride at a decent pace to gain endurance.

Sure you can mess with the clickers and this will help with some comfort, and you can even throw on some evos to help as well. But the main issue is your body. Not the machine.
UpTiTe wrote:
Exactly, and this is why I mentioned loosening up the triple clamp pinch bolts a little, soften the ride.
HarrowDrag wrote:
Wow...This is intriguing....I never torque them but this may explain the harshness
If you over tighten your pinch bolts, motor mounts and swing arm pivot bolt, it stiffens the chassis and will tire your hands a lot faster.
9/7/2020 9:30am
Changes to the bike that allow you to relax your hands and not grip so tightly will help reduce arm pump. For me, tightening the steering stem nut down so that the front end doesn't flop to one side when the bike is in the stand made a huge difference. Think about it - with a loose front end, the bars will want to turn easier on their own, and going through a rough section you'll be hanging on to the bars so tight to prevent them from moving. A steering damper would be best. Beyond that, if your suspension isn't set up correctly you'll be fighting the bike with your upper body. The key is to use your legs to control most of the bike, and your upper body should be relatively relaxed. Your hands should be gripping the bars very lightly, almost like the pressure required to turn a door knob. If you are gripping harder than that often, you're relying too much on your upper body to control the bike.
1
Luxon MX
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9/7/2020 9:34am
UpTiTe wrote:
Exactly, and this is why I mentioned loosening up the triple clamp pinch bolts a little, soften the ride.
HarrowDrag wrote:
Wow...This is intriguing....I never torque them but this may explain the harshness
UpTiTe wrote:
If you over tighten your pinch bolts, motor mounts and swing arm pivot bolt, it stiffens the chassis and will tire your hands a lot faster.
The key point here is to torque the bolts correctly, not just loosen them up. If they're too tight, they'll cause binding as the bushings pass through. Too loose and your forks can slip, so torque them to spec, the lowers especially.

Unless they're really tight, though, I don't think this will do much for your hand issues. There are a lot of variables at play here - grips, bars, bar bend, bar mounts, triple clamps, rims, etc. that will affect your hands. It all works together as a system, and if one part is out of whack, then it will feel like crap! And what's right for you won't be right for me and it won't be right for someone else, either. Everyone is different, has different sized hands, different riding styles, etc. You just have to try different things to see what best suits you.
Phillip_Lamb
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9/7/2020 10:16am
you never mentioned what bars your running.

if you have twinfalls switch these out and change grips


like others mentioned check the triple clamp pinch bolts and ensure they are to spec. a lot of people will just tighten then with t handles or sockets and just crank them down

check your handlebar mounts, axle pinch bolts and tire pressure.

if any of these are too tight or pressure too high you'll get too much feedback
Rooster
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Edmonton CA
9/7/2020 11:00am
TbonesPop wrote:
I grip the bike so much with my knees that I'll rub wear marks into the shrouds so bad, I have to replace them yearly. I...
I grip the bike so much with my knees that I'll rub wear marks into the shrouds so bad, I have to replace them yearly. I have Acerbis frame guards that are almost worn through the rubber. Have to replace them yearly too. Sure there may be times where I'm not gripping with me legs, but most of the time I'm locked in with the bike and my legs. Its not arm pump, its hand cramping. I specifically lose dexterity in the hands and the thumb muscle just gets super cramped. That's what hinders how much I can ride moto. Single track I can ride all day for hours and be fine.
Sounds like carpo tunnel to me. Perhaps lack of core strength, but if you're gripping with your legs as much as you say, then I'm less inclined to blame that.

When I had a bad flareup of carpo-tunnel it manifested itself as a sharp pain right in the center of my hand every time I planted a ski-pole making a turn.

I never noticed it during the day at work (which was the cause), because while there was a repetitive strain on my arms, any pain was just a dull ache like muscle fatigue. It wasn't until I switched to an activity that included impacts that the real pain became evident. With you being able to ride single track all day, but not moto, your condition sounds very familiar. Less impacts, less problems.
RCMXracing
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9/7/2020 11:10am
Did you know that grip strength is strongest on the outside of your hand? Holding on should mainly be your pinky and ring finger, with some middle finger. Not index, ever.

Hold your hand palm up and make a fist, watch how those outside fingers curl inwards. That’s where grip strength comes from. Concentrate on riding with index fingers on levers and see if that helps.

As others have said, check that rebound, maybe speed it up, could be packing. When my hands/wrists hurt it’s always rebound too slow.

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