HRC Honda releases statement on Cole Seely's Shock Failure at MXoN

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10/4/2017 10:53 AM

As I tried to explain multiple times in the other thread regarding this, the retaining collar/cup packed with mud, split and failed...

Here's Honda PR regarding the issue. I think I'm going to do a video on this, trying to gather the correct part so I can explain how this happens.

Team Honda HRC Addresses Motocross of Nations Shock Failure
TORRANCE, Calif. (October 4, 2017) – Team Honda HRC today confirmed that the double DNFs by Cole Seely during the Motocross of Nations at Matterley Basin in Winchester, England, last Sunday were caused by identical shock-absorber failures on his CRF450R. Seely was forced to withdraw from the muddy first and third motos after the spring holder on his factory KYB shock became dislodged, allowing the spring to drop.

“Clearly, we’re very disappointed by what happened at the Motocross of Nations,” said Takashi “Sam” Mishima, Manager of Motorcycle Sports at American Honda. “The factory KYB shock on our bike uses a cup-shaped spring collar with a slot where it slides over the shaft, and when the mud packed on the bottoming bumper during the first moto, enough force built up to shift the collar out of place. We used this same setup the entire AMA Pro Motocross season, including at muddy races like Unadilla, but this was the first time we experienced this issue. We replaced the entire shock for Cole’s final moto, but the same problem occurred again. Normally with issues like this, it’s difficult to even recreate them again, so the fact that this problem occurred twice on the same day suggests there was something particular about the Matterley Basin track layout and/or the consistency of the mud that created the perfect conditions for the problem. Honda customers should know that the retaining system on the production Showa CRF450R shock is different; in fact, the system is the same as that on the factory Showa shock used by our MXGP counterparts at Team HRC, whose bikes didn’t experience this issue at the Motocross of Nations. Obviously, we’ll look into this along with KYB and address it for next season, but in the meantime, we offer our sincere apologies to Cole, and to American motocross fans for the fact that Team USA’s results were so significantly impacted by this issue.”

KYB would also like to acknowledge the impact the failure had on the U.S. effort and offer their apologies to the MX community. Countermeasures and design updates are currently being instituted to insure this type of situation does not happen again. KYB adds that only factory KYB-issued parts for HRC factory bikes and race teams are affected.

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10/4/2017 10:56 AM

That's two years in a row the Japanese have sabotaged us!

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10/4/2017 11:06 AM

Ok I give! smile

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10/4/2017 11:06 AM

So if the cause of the problem is so obvious to guys like you and me, why didn't the team take at least some remedial action to prevent it for the second race? You know what they say about expecting a different outcome when nothing else changes (like just replacing the shock with the another one and hoping).

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Retired Mechanical Engineer, published technical writer, mscperformance.com, Bisimotoengineering.com,

10/4/2017 11:07 AM

idk ML512. It's a dead horse at this point and the vitards your are trying to convince are not going to listen anyway...

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10/4/2017 11:10 AM

They read your post in here and worked the statement around it, lol.laughing wink

Good job.

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10/4/2017 11:20 AM

Good for Honda that Roczen couldn’t race. Imagine both of their bikes failing in both motos at Matterley with the same issue...

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"Me fail English? That’s unpossible." - Ralph Wiggum

10/4/2017 11:24 AM

Has anyone heard of a team blame the dirt for their bike failing? Has to be a first right?

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2009 Kawasaki KX450F
2009 Kawasaki KX250F
2002 Suzuki GSXR 600

10/4/2017 11:27 AM

Isn't this same style collar used on many different works KYB shocks on various brands?

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10/4/2017 11:31 AM

Unreal.
A dirt bike.
On a track made of dirt.
Failed to finish a race due to dirt.

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10/4/2017 11:33 AM

The mud at Matterley was the stickiest mud I have ever seen. I would not fall off the bikes, just cloth up.
I can imagine the US mechanics did not expect this to happen.

During Sunday morning warm up the track was a mess. Luckily it became a bit better during the day.

Photo

Photo

Photo

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10/4/2017 11:34 AM

Acidreamer wrote:

Has anyone heard of a team blame the dirt for their bike failing? Has to be a first right?

Weeeelll,

They definitely made sure to point out it was a KYB component. They mentioned KYB 6 times in that statement, and Hondas come with Showas.

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10/4/2017 11:34 AM

scooterwhipmoore wrote:

That's two years in a row the Japanese have sabotaged us!

Hahaha this made me laugh

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
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10/4/2017 11:37 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/4/2017 11:38 AM

So can't really speak of dirt anymore.
More a bike packed with clay.
Check the chain on Herlings bike and the big pile of clay hanging under the fender.

Photo

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10/4/2017 11:44 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/4/2017 11:45 AM

btw. what is cole getting surgery on?

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10/4/2017 11:45 AM

Why didn't other brands using a KYB shock experience a similar issue? Was Cole the only Honda out there using a factory KYB shock?

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10/4/2017 11:54 AM

What suspension did Gasjer use?

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10/4/2017 12:02 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/4/2017 12:04 PM

twotwosix wrote:

Isn't this same style collar used on many different works KYB shocks on various brands?

No. The Honda uses a shorter shock and different collar than all other brands. You can see the difference in the photo below

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10/4/2017 12:03 PM

Photo

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10/4/2017 12:06 PM

How many bikes were Sunday on the track - 110?

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18 Yamaha YZ450F
94 Honda CR 500
90 Honda CR 500
81 Yamaha SR 500
68 BSA Thunderbolt
69 Triumph Tiger 100

10/4/2017 12:08 PM

theycallmeebryan wrote:

Why didn't other brands using a KYB shock experience a similar issue? Was Cole the only Honda out there using a factory KYB shock?

He was the only Honda using KYB at MXoN and the bumper cup/retainer on the Honda/KYB version is a bit different than on the other brands. In the others, the cup and retainer clips are separate items and this version it's one piece and has area for the mud to sit in the cup.

Photo

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10/4/2017 12:11 PM

scottydogmx wrote:

What suspension did Gasjer use?

Showa.

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10/4/2017 12:14 PM

scooterwhipmoore wrote:

That's two years in a row the Japanese have sabotaged us!

laughing laughing laughing grin grin
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10/4/2017 12:15 PM

Photo
Here is cup/retainer drilled
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10/4/2017 12:16 PM

no way that is so going to help in those muddy conditions

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10/4/2017 12:26 PM

Acidreamer wrote:

Has anyone heard of a team blame the dirt for their bike failing? Has to be a first right?

They aren't blaming dirt, they simply stated that an abnormal set of occurrences presented themselves and caused a failure. It's real easy to sit there and be an armchair engineer with inpecible hindsight, but the bottom line is things happen and will continue to happen until the end of time, not every single situation can be thought of and tested for in a situation like this.

As for them not doing anything but change the shock between motos, ya, I think that was definitely a failure on someone's part to think clearly in the heat of the moment.

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10/4/2017 12:29 PM

How in the world did the retainer get arround the bump stop? Twice?
ML512- go find some sticky mud and try to re-create this. You have the time, right?

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10/4/2017 12:31 PM

"We are very sorry, IT WAS KYB! By the way, these aren't production parts or Showa parts. Lastly, KYB is sorry as well."

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10/4/2017 12:35 PM

Acidreamer wrote:

Has anyone heard of a team blame the dirt for their bike failing? Has to be a first right?

JM485 wrote:

They aren't blaming dirt, they simply stated that an abnormal set of occurrences presented themselves and caused a failure. It's real easy to sit there and be an armchair engineer with inpecible hindsight, but the bottom line is things happen and will continue to happen until the end of time, not every single situation can be thought of and tested for in a situation like this.

As for them not doing anything but change the shock between motos, ya, I think that was definitely a failure on someone's part to think clearly in the heat of the moment.

I really have no issue with the first failure as shit does happen and Murphy's Law is forever. But to not take very strong preventative measures to ensure the same failure did not happen a second time, and simply change the part that broke out is absolutely off the charts.

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10/4/2017 12:39 PM

Over it already, we fvqqin lost again, period

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