HEP to Kawasaki or just Alex Ray?

MxKing809 wrote:

Par for the Suzuki course to only give their teams a guarantee for this year (2019)..... and not have them lined out for 2020. JGR seems...

Par for the Suzuki course to only give their teams a guarantee for this year (2019)..... and not have them lined out for 2020.

JGR seems strung along by dwindling Suzuki support, and it wouldn’t surprise me if HEP got the axe with Suzuki’s troubles.

MxKing809 wrote:

Par for the Suzuki course to only give their teams a guarantee for this year (2019)..... and not have them lined out for 2020. JGR seems...

Par for the Suzuki course to only give their teams a guarantee for this year (2019)..... and not have them lined out for 2020.

JGR seems strung along by dwindling Suzuki support, and it wouldn’t surprise me if HEP got the axe with Suzuki’s troubles.

TeamGreen wrote:

What, exactly, are Suzuki's "troubles"?

MxKing809 wrote:

Par for the Suzuki course to only give their teams a guarantee for this year (2019)..... and not have them lined out for 2020. JGR seems...

Par for the Suzuki course to only give their teams a guarantee for this year (2019)..... and not have them lined out for 2020.

JGR seems strung along by dwindling Suzuki support, and it wouldn’t surprise me if HEP got the axe with Suzuki’s troubles.

TeamGreen wrote:

What, exactly, are Suzuki's "troubles"?

MotoMan12345 wrote:

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some...

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some weight off and add a little power. Then go ahead and keep it the same for the next 10 years.

kawboy627 wrote:

Let me get this strait, Suzuki might not be making new dirt bikes?? That would be a sad day for our sport given the history. Oh...

Let me get this strait, Suzuki might not be making new dirt bikes?? That would be a sad day for our sport given the history. Oh well, better bikes to buy anyway. Also, I am taking this information with a grain of salt.

MotoMan12345 wrote:

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some...

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some weight off and add a little power. Then go ahead and keep it the same for the next 10 years.

MotoMan12345 wrote:

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some...

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some weight off and add a little power. Then go ahead and keep it the same for the next 10 years.

ML512 wrote:

HEP will be on Suzukis, not Kawasakis.

MotoMan12345 wrote:

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some...

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some weight off and add a little power. Then go ahead and keep it the same for the next 10 years.

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Everyone keeps saying Suzuki needs to add power... by chance have any of you saying that ridden them? Sure, maybe on the dyno they are down...

Everyone keeps saying Suzuki needs to add power... by chance have any of you saying that ridden them? Sure, maybe on the dyno they are down a few HP, but on the track I promise you don’t really notice because the bike is so easy to ride and puts the power down so well.. It might not be the kind of power that wants to rip your arms off, but let’s be honest here, 90% of us or more can’t handle all that power anyways.

ML512 wrote:

HEP will be on Suzukis, not Kawasakis.

mb60 wrote:

How about A Ray on a Kawi from the hint swap moto live dropped ? (:

Lightning78 wrote:

Youre asking for Suzuki to ADD electric start AND shave some weight off the bike? You realize the 2 ideas contradict each other right? Even IF...

Youre asking for Suzuki to ADD electric start AND shave some weight off the bike?

You realize the 2 ideas contradict each other right? Even IF Suzuki added electric start and were able to keep the weight the same as it is now would be a massive accomplishment and that would be the case with any manufacturer.

Go back and look at the weight of a brand new bone stock CRF450r and then look at what that very same bike weighs now. The CRF459 has gained somewhere around 10 - 15lbs…it could be as much as 20lbs heavier than the 2005 - 2008 bike and that's thanks to 2 things that riders can't LIVE without EFI and Electric Start. Personally the EFI thing I can let slide even though every Japanese mfg had to add 10lbs to their bikes as a result of needing EFI…… BUT I cant believe the public outcry when a closed course SX/MX designated race bike is released without electric start, let alone a minimalist design based on pure performance and light weight. One of a lot of mêst consistently mentioned negatives or notes/complaints made about the newest gen RMZ450 was that is "really needs" electric start… ..Does it really need it? No, and my opinion of ES for MX designated bikes is that its a useless unnecessary "improvement" and I would gladly request a kick start only version that is 10+ pounds lighter if I had the option. Not only for the weight savings but I don't like the fact that bikes don't even have kickstarting as an option. Its funny how ES was never a highly anticipated… again "improvement" but once consumers got it, everyone decided that kickstarting a race oriented DIRTBIKE was waaayyyy too much of a barbaric method to get their bike started but for the entire history of the sport or hobby of RIDING a dirtbike, they've utilized the prehistoric kickstart method.

Jump forward to 2019 and the only mfg still utilizing a Kickstarter is ridiculed and being set behind its competitors for not including Electric Starting AS WELL AS some other things such as its weight and needing an updated engine yet the 2018 - 2019 RMZ450's are not costing their new owners 10k like the other bikes. Ive seen then sell for as low as 6k - 7k. Suzuki has come of THE BEST race oriented street bikes in their GSXR lineup so I'm sure they could release a new dare I say more modernized engine although the current one isn't THAT bad. It surely wouldn't hurt Suzuki if the updated their engine design to take advantage of the direct downdraft intake the other mfgs are using as well as getting on the finger follower valve train design. I would be really bummed to see Suzuki abandon their closed course race dirtbike division. Its the best looking bike aesthetically hands down and so were their last gen RM's

MotoMan12345 wrote:

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some...

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some weight off and add a little power. Then go ahead and keep it the same for the next 10 years.

Lightning78 wrote:

Youre asking for Suzuki to ADD electric start AND shave some weight off the bike? You realize the 2 ideas contradict each other right? Even IF...

Youre asking for Suzuki to ADD electric start AND shave some weight off the bike?

You realize the 2 ideas contradict each other right? Even IF Suzuki added electric start and were able to keep the weight the same as it is now would be a massive accomplishment and that would be the case with any manufacturer.

Go back and look at the weight of a brand new bone stock CRF450r and then look at what that very same bike weighs now. The CRF459 has gained somewhere around 10 - 15lbs…it could be as much as 20lbs heavier than the 2005 - 2008 bike and that's thanks to 2 things that riders can't LIVE without EFI and Electric Start. Personally the EFI thing I can let slide even though every Japanese mfg had to add 10lbs to their bikes as a result of needing EFI…… BUT I cant believe the public outcry when a closed course SX/MX designated race bike is released without electric start, let alone a minimalist design based on pure performance and light weight. One of a lot of mêst consistently mentioned negatives or notes/complaints made about the newest gen RMZ450 was that is "really needs" electric start… ..Does it really need it? No, and my opinion of ES for MX designated bikes is that its a useless unnecessary "improvement" and I would gladly request a kick start only version that is 10+ pounds lighter if I had the option. Not only for the weight savings but I don't like the fact that bikes don't even have kickstarting as an option. Its funny how ES was never a highly anticipated… again "improvement" but once consumers got it, everyone decided that kickstarting a race oriented DIRTBIKE was waaayyyy too much of a barbaric method to get their bike started but for the entire history of the sport or hobby of RIDING a dirtbike, they've utilized the prehistoric kickstart method.

Jump forward to 2019 and the only mfg still utilizing a Kickstarter is ridiculed and being set behind its competitors for not including Electric Starting AS WELL AS some other things such as its weight and needing an updated engine yet the 2018 - 2019 RMZ450's are not costing their new owners 10k like the other bikes. Ive seen then sell for as low as 6k - 7k. Suzuki has come of THE BEST race oriented street bikes in their GSXR lineup so I'm sure they could release a new dare I say more modernized engine although the current one isn't THAT bad. It surely wouldn't hurt Suzuki if the updated their engine design to take advantage of the direct downdraft intake the other mfgs are using as well as getting on the finger follower valve train design. I would be really bummed to see Suzuki abandon their closed course race dirtbike division. Its the best looking bike aesthetically hands down and so were their last gen RM's

MotoMan12345 wrote:

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some...

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some weight off and add a little power. Then go ahead and keep it the same for the next 10 years.

Lightning78 wrote:

Youre asking for Suzuki to ADD electric start AND shave some weight off the bike? You realize the 2 ideas contradict each other right? Even IF...

Youre asking for Suzuki to ADD electric start AND shave some weight off the bike?

You realize the 2 ideas contradict each other right? Even IF Suzuki added electric start and were able to keep the weight the same as it is now would be a massive accomplishment and that would be the case with any manufacturer.

Go back and look at the weight of a brand new bone stock CRF450r and then look at what that very same bike weighs now. The CRF459 has gained somewhere around 10 - 15lbs…it could be as much as 20lbs heavier than the 2005 - 2008 bike and that's thanks to 2 things that riders can't LIVE without EFI and Electric Start. Personally the EFI thing I can let slide even though every Japanese mfg had to add 10lbs to their bikes as a result of needing EFI…… BUT I cant believe the public outcry when a closed course SX/MX designated race bike is released without electric start, let alone a minimalist design based on pure performance and light weight. One of a lot of mêst consistently mentioned negatives or notes/complaints made about the newest gen RMZ450 was that is "really needs" electric start… ..Does it really need it? No, and my opinion of ES for MX designated bikes is that its a useless unnecessary "improvement" and I would gladly request a kick start only version that is 10+ pounds lighter if I had the option. Not only for the weight savings but I don't like the fact that bikes don't even have kickstarting as an option. Its funny how ES was never a highly anticipated… again "improvement" but once consumers got it, everyone decided that kickstarting a race oriented DIRTBIKE was waaayyyy too much of a barbaric method to get their bike started but for the entire history of the sport or hobby of RIDING a dirtbike, they've utilized the prehistoric kickstart method.

Jump forward to 2019 and the only mfg still utilizing a Kickstarter is ridiculed and being set behind its competitors for not including Electric Starting AS WELL AS some other things such as its weight and needing an updated engine yet the 2018 - 2019 RMZ450's are not costing their new owners 10k like the other bikes. Ive seen then sell for as low as 6k - 7k. Suzuki has come of THE BEST race oriented street bikes in their GSXR lineup so I'm sure they could release a new dare I say more modernized engine although the current one isn't THAT bad. It surely wouldn't hurt Suzuki if the updated their engine design to take advantage of the direct downdraft intake the other mfgs are using as well as getting on the finger follower valve train design. I would be really bummed to see Suzuki abandon their closed course race dirtbike division. Its the best looking bike aesthetically hands down and so were their last gen RM's

MotoMan12345 wrote:

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some...

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some weight off and add a little power. Then go ahead and keep it the same for the next 10 years.

Lightning78 wrote:

Youre asking for Suzuki to ADD electric start AND shave some weight off the bike? You realize the 2 ideas contradict each other right? Even IF...

Youre asking for Suzuki to ADD electric start AND shave some weight off the bike?

You realize the 2 ideas contradict each other right? Even IF Suzuki added electric start and were able to keep the weight the same as it is now would be a massive accomplishment and that would be the case with any manufacturer.

Go back and look at the weight of a brand new bone stock CRF450r and then look at what that very same bike weighs now. The CRF459 has gained somewhere around 10 - 15lbs…it could be as much as 20lbs heavier than the 2005 - 2008 bike and that's thanks to 2 things that riders can't LIVE without EFI and Electric Start. Personally the EFI thing I can let slide even though every Japanese mfg had to add 10lbs to their bikes as a result of needing EFI…… BUT I cant believe the public outcry when a closed course SX/MX designated race bike is released without electric start, let alone a minimalist design based on pure performance and light weight. One of a lot of mêst consistently mentioned negatives or notes/complaints made about the newest gen RMZ450 was that is "really needs" electric start… ..Does it really need it? No, and my opinion of ES for MX designated bikes is that its a useless unnecessary "improvement" and I would gladly request a kick start only version that is 10+ pounds lighter if I had the option. Not only for the weight savings but I don't like the fact that bikes don't even have kickstarting as an option. Its funny how ES was never a highly anticipated… again "improvement" but once consumers got it, everyone decided that kickstarting a race oriented DIRTBIKE was waaayyyy too much of a barbaric method to get their bike started but for the entire history of the sport or hobby of RIDING a dirtbike, they've utilized the prehistoric kickstart method.

Jump forward to 2019 and the only mfg still utilizing a Kickstarter is ridiculed and being set behind its competitors for not including Electric Starting AS WELL AS some other things such as its weight and needing an updated engine yet the 2018 - 2019 RMZ450's are not costing their new owners 10k like the other bikes. Ive seen then sell for as low as 6k - 7k. Suzuki has come of THE BEST race oriented street bikes in their GSXR lineup so I'm sure they could release a new dare I say more modernized engine although the current one isn't THAT bad. It surely wouldn't hurt Suzuki if the updated their engine design to take advantage of the direct downdraft intake the other mfgs are using as well as getting on the finger follower valve train design. I would be really bummed to see Suzuki abandon their closed course race dirtbike division. Its the best looking bike aesthetically hands down and so were their last gen RM's

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Don’t you think Suzuki has thought about everything they could do to update the bikes and make them a bit better? I’d bet you $100 that...

Don’t you think Suzuki has thought about everything they could do to update the bikes and make them a bit better? I’d bet you $100 that they have thought about it, but does that mean they’d sell more bikes? I highly doubt it.

I’m my opinion, Suzuki could dump tons of money into R&D and come out with the most powerful and best handling bike there is and I have no doubt that they could, but I don’t think it would make that much of a difference. For some reason so many people are on the “Suzuki is a heavy, slow, piece of shit with a kickstarter” bandwagon that them having the best bike wouldn’t equal more sales. It would just be a waste of their time and money.

I’d even put money on the fact that if we could do a blind test with bikes, the majority of average riders would absolutely love the RMZ450 in its current state. It’s very rider friendly and just because it doesn’t “feel fast” doesn’t mean you can’t go fast on it. I’d guarantee that I’m just as fast on my RMZ450 than I was on my YZ450, if not faster because it’s just easier to ride overall. Now I’m not saying the RMZ is the greatest bike ever made, but what I am saying is that it’s a great overall package that most won’t even give a chance because they buy into the “slow, heavy, outdated” rep that it comes with.

People need to actually try riding the bike first, with an open mind, and I really believe they’d all be pleasantly surprised. Forget about what the magazines/shootouts say, forget about what Kenny KTM Koolaid drinker said, forget about what Harry Honda rider said about the Suzuki and just try one out with an open mind. In case a lot of you haven’t noticed, there have been a bit more of the spoke with my wallet threads with guys buying Suzuki’s and talking about how easy they are to ride and how they really aren’t what everyone makes them out to be.

MotoMan12345 wrote:

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some...

Suzuki just needs to put a little effort into a dirt bike for one year. Add electric start cus that’s a deal breaker for people...shave some weight off and add a little power. Then go ahead and keep it the same for the next 10 years.

Lightning78 wrote:

Youre asking for Suzuki to ADD electric start AND shave some weight off the bike? You realize the 2 ideas contradict each other right? Even IF...

Youre asking for Suzuki to ADD electric start AND shave some weight off the bike?

You realize the 2 ideas contradict each other right? Even IF Suzuki added electric start and were able to keep the weight the same as it is now would be a massive accomplishment and that would be the case with any manufacturer.

Go back and look at the weight of a brand new bone stock CRF450r and then look at what that very same bike weighs now. The CRF459 has gained somewhere around 10 - 15lbs…it could be as much as 20lbs heavier than the 2005 - 2008 bike and that's thanks to 2 things that riders can't LIVE without EFI and Electric Start. Personally the EFI thing I can let slide even though every Japanese mfg had to add 10lbs to their bikes as a result of needing EFI…… BUT I cant believe the public outcry when a closed course SX/MX designated race bike is released without electric start, let alone a minimalist design based on pure performance and light weight. One of a lot of mêst consistently mentioned negatives or notes/complaints made about the newest gen RMZ450 was that is "really needs" electric start… ..Does it really need it? No, and my opinion of ES for MX designated bikes is that its a useless unnecessary "improvement" and I would gladly request a kick start only version that is 10+ pounds lighter if I had the option. Not only for the weight savings but I don't like the fact that bikes don't even have kickstarting as an option. Its funny how ES was never a highly anticipated… again "improvement" but once consumers got it, everyone decided that kickstarting a race oriented DIRTBIKE was waaayyyy too much of a barbaric method to get their bike started but for the entire history of the sport or hobby of RIDING a dirtbike, they've utilized the prehistoric kickstart method.

Jump forward to 2019 and the only mfg still utilizing a Kickstarter is ridiculed and being set behind its competitors for not including Electric Starting AS WELL AS some other things such as its weight and needing an updated engine yet the 2018 - 2019 RMZ450's are not costing their new owners 10k like the other bikes. Ive seen then sell for as low as 6k - 7k. Suzuki has come of THE BEST race oriented street bikes in their GSXR lineup so I'm sure they could release a new dare I say more modernized engine although the current one isn't THAT bad. It surely wouldn't hurt Suzuki if the updated their engine design to take advantage of the direct downdraft intake the other mfgs are using as well as getting on the finger follower valve train design. I would be really bummed to see Suzuki abandon their closed course race dirtbike division. Its the best looking bike aesthetically hands down and so were their last gen RM's

Hudd_421 wrote:

Y'all spoke with your wallets when Suzuki mades bikes that were more relevant (2005-2015). Didn't buy them then, and won't buy them if ONLY ThEy hAd...

Y'all spoke with your wallets when Suzuki mades bikes that were more relevant (2005-2015). Didn't buy them then, and won't buy them if ONLY ThEy hAd LeCtRiC StaRt ... Same with two strokes, we all bought 4 strokes like they were magic dick pills.

ML512 wrote:

HEP will be on Suzukis, not Kawasakis.

mb60 wrote:

How about A Ray on a Kawi from the hint swap moto live dropped ? (:

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Where at?

Lightning78 wrote:

Youre asking for Suzuki to ADD electric start AND shave some weight off the bike? You realize the 2 ideas contradict each other right? Even IF...

Youre asking for Suzuki to ADD electric start AND shave some weight off the bike?

You realize the 2 ideas contradict each other right? Even IF Suzuki added electric start and were able to keep the weight the same as it is now would be a massive accomplishment and that would be the case with any manufacturer.

Go back and look at the weight of a brand new bone stock CRF450r and then look at what that very same bike weighs now. The CRF459 has gained somewhere around 10 - 15lbs…it could be as much as 20lbs heavier than the 2005 - 2008 bike and that's thanks to 2 things that riders can't LIVE without EFI and Electric Start. Personally the EFI thing I can let slide even though every Japanese mfg had to add 10lbs to their bikes as a result of needing EFI…… BUT I cant believe the public outcry when a closed course SX/MX designated race bike is released without electric start, let alone a minimalist design based on pure performance and light weight. One of a lot of mêst consistently mentioned negatives or notes/complaints made about the newest gen RMZ450 was that is "really needs" electric start… ..Does it really need it? No, and my opinion of ES for MX designated bikes is that its a useless unnecessary "improvement" and I would gladly request a kick start only version that is 10+ pounds lighter if I had the option. Not only for the weight savings but I don't like the fact that bikes don't even have kickstarting as an option. Its funny how ES was never a highly anticipated… again "improvement" but once consumers got it, everyone decided that kickstarting a race oriented DIRTBIKE was waaayyyy too much of a barbaric method to get their bike started but for the entire history of the sport or hobby of RIDING a dirtbike, they've utilized the prehistoric kickstart method.

Jump forward to 2019 and the only mfg still utilizing a Kickstarter is ridiculed and being set behind its competitors for not including Electric Starting AS WELL AS some other things such as its weight and needing an updated engine yet the 2018 - 2019 RMZ450's are not costing their new owners 10k like the other bikes. Ive seen then sell for as low as 6k - 7k. Suzuki has come of THE BEST race oriented street bikes in their GSXR lineup so I'm sure they could release a new dare I say more modernized engine although the current one isn't THAT bad. It surely wouldn't hurt Suzuki if the updated their engine design to take advantage of the direct downdraft intake the other mfgs are using as well as getting on the finger follower valve train design. I would be really bummed to see Suzuki abandon their closed course race dirtbike division. Its the best looking bike aesthetically hands down and so were their last gen RM's

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Don’t you think Suzuki has thought about everything they could do to update the bikes and make them a bit better? I’d bet you $100 that...

Don’t you think Suzuki has thought about everything they could do to update the bikes and make them a bit better? I’d bet you $100 that they have thought about it, but does that mean they’d sell more bikes? I highly doubt it.

I’m my opinion, Suzuki could dump tons of money into R&D and come out with the most powerful and best handling bike there is and I have no doubt that they could, but I don’t think it would make that much of a difference. For some reason so many people are on the “Suzuki is a heavy, slow, piece of shit with a kickstarter” bandwagon that them having the best bike wouldn’t equal more sales. It would just be a waste of their time and money.

I’d even put money on the fact that if we could do a blind test with bikes, the majority of average riders would absolutely love the RMZ450 in its current state. It’s very rider friendly and just because it doesn’t “feel fast” doesn’t mean you can’t go fast on it. I’d guarantee that I’m just as fast on my RMZ450 than I was on my YZ450, if not faster because it’s just easier to ride overall. Now I’m not saying the RMZ is the greatest bike ever made, but what I am saying is that it’s a great overall package that most won’t even give a chance because they buy into the “slow, heavy, outdated” rep that it comes with.

People need to actually try riding the bike first, with an open mind, and I really believe they’d all be pleasantly surprised. Forget about what the magazines/shootouts say, forget about what Kenny KTM Koolaid drinker said, forget about what Harry Honda rider said about the Suzuki and just try one out with an open mind. In case a lot of you haven’t noticed, there have been a bit more of the spoke with my wallet threads with guys buying Suzuki’s and talking about how easy they are to ride and how they really aren’t what everyone makes them out to be.

Motofinne wrote:

I agree with most of what you wrote except the part where you don't think a better RM-Z 250 or 450 would grow the sales. I...

I agree with most of what you wrote except the part where you don't think a better RM-Z 250 or 450 would grow the sales.

I don't know how you don't think that a Suzuki with an e-start and a more modern engine (note, it doesn't have to be faster. Just more modern and lighter feeling.) would sell more than the current generation does?

The Suzuki has gotten the rep that it deserves. Are there trolls that completely bash the bikes? Absolutely and they should be ignored. 10 years ago they did the same with KTM and the first gen YZ450F(although that truly was a horrible, horrible bike.).