HEP Suzuki and Bar X Suzuki

BobPA
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BobPA 8/29/2022 7:09am
8/29/2022 7:09am
soggy wrote:
Tell that to the magpies guys that went back to last gen 250f motor.
wrc777 wrote:
Are any independent teams running the 22.5 bike yet in the US? Does the old engine in the new chassis allow them to change the anti-squat...
Are any independent teams running the 22.5 bike yet in the US? Does the old engine in the new chassis allow them to change the anti-squat to be more like the old bike?

The dyno tests are clear, the new engine is significantly faster everywhere and has better throttle response based on the reviews. Vohland didn't seem to be getting out motored by Cooper when they showed the overhead shots on Saturday. The only 250s I see consistently getting out pulled are the Hondas. Suzukis are not usually running high enough to get TV coverage so hard to say on those but they seem to do decent on starts. It would be interesting if they had a top tier rider to see where the bike really stands.
Zycki11 wrote:
Apples and oranges. The new gen engines in ktm/husky aren’t producing the power the factory guys like. They gave all said it. Cost wise, it isn’t...
Apples and oranges. The new gen engines in ktm/husky aren’t producing the power the factory guys like. They gave all said it. Cost wise, it isn’t going to cost more for a Suzuki to be fast. All of those engines are completely redone, so they are spending I would assume a similar amount.

The Suzuki makes great midrange power and has decent roll on torque. Twisted development who does the engines says the Suzuki makes the most power at 8k rpm.
How often is a professionally ridden 250f at 8k RPMs? It would be nice to see any overlay of the power curves of some built 250f engines. I'd be willing to be the Yamaha has everyone covered everywhere through the rev range.
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wrc777
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wrc777 8/29/2022 7:18am
8/29/2022 7:18am
wrc777 wrote:
Are any independent teams running the 22.5 bike yet in the US? Does the old engine in the new chassis allow them to change the anti-squat...
Are any independent teams running the 22.5 bike yet in the US? Does the old engine in the new chassis allow them to change the anti-squat to be more like the old bike?

The dyno tests are clear, the new engine is significantly faster everywhere and has better throttle response based on the reviews. Vohland didn't seem to be getting out motored by Cooper when they showed the overhead shots on Saturday. The only 250s I see consistently getting out pulled are the Hondas. Suzukis are not usually running high enough to get TV coverage so hard to say on those but they seem to do decent on starts. It would be interesting if they had a top tier rider to see where the bike really stands.
Zycki11 wrote:
Apples and oranges. The new gen engines in ktm/husky aren’t producing the power the factory guys like. They gave all said it. Cost wise, it isn’t...
Apples and oranges. The new gen engines in ktm/husky aren’t producing the power the factory guys like. They gave all said it. Cost wise, it isn’t going to cost more for a Suzuki to be fast. All of those engines are completely redone, so they are spending I would assume a similar amount.

The Suzuki makes great midrange power and has decent roll on torque. Twisted development who does the engines says the Suzuki makes the most power at 8k rpm.
BobPA wrote:
How often is a professionally ridden 250f at 8k RPMs? It would be nice to see any overlay of the power curves of some built 250f...
How often is a professionally ridden 250f at 8k RPMs? It would be nice to see any overlay of the power curves of some built 250f engines. I'd be willing to be the Yamaha has everyone covered everywhere through the rev range.
HP race development has some dyno charts on youtube. He shows the Suzuki can make similar power to the yz when both are built out. I don’t think anyone will ever show a jgr or star engine dyno run to compare though. One advantage the Suzuki does have for tuners is the second injector is already there.
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uncledaddy69
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uncledaddy69 8/29/2022 7:34am
8/29/2022 7:34am
Rickyisms wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/08/29/566125/s1200_99740867_A64B_4E85_9AEF_23DCE88B228C.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/08/29/566123/s1200_FA02A186_3BC3_4162_8367_255BC1C2AB30.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/08/29/566124/s1200_A141B90A_B388_4884_A53E_A4D84E428997.jpg[/img]



Some of the best looking bikes out there.
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 8/29/2022 7:36am
8/29/2022 7:36am
So in the time since we last had one of these suzuki threads, has anyone gone out and bought a new suzuki?
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wrc777
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wrc777 8/29/2022 7:52am
8/29/2022 7:52am
Bruce372 wrote:
So in the time since we last had one of these suzuki threads, has anyone gone out and bought a new suzuki?
If you buy a new one and don’t like it you will lose your ass on resale. From the reviews a revalve/respring is required to make the bike rideable compared to other stock suspensions so there goes any savings vs buying another bike that has ok oem suspension. The lack of kickstart and still being one of the heaviest bikes isn’t so great either.
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Trickamoto
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Trickamoto 8/29/2022 7:56am
8/29/2022 7:56am
mb60 wrote:
I;m very curious about Bar X next year and what brand or what riders ride for them ? Right now it seems Kilroy and Mumford are...
I;m very curious about Bar X next year and what brand or what riders ride for them ? Right now it seems Kilroy and Mumford are the only 2 worth keeping,
Money wrote:
Hate to say it but none of them are worth keeping.
thewrizzle wrote:
Explain that logic would ya?
Maybe check the results sheet....
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thewrizzle
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thewrizzle 8/29/2022 8:05am
8/29/2022 8:05am
Money wrote:
Hate to say it but none of them are worth keeping.
thewrizzle wrote:
Explain that logic would ya?
Trickamoto wrote:
Maybe check the results sheet....
I see guys that are earning points. Is the implication that only race/championship winning riders deserve a ride?
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 8/29/2022 8:07am
8/29/2022 8:07am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2022 8:34am
soggy wrote:
There not good enough to win on, but Tomac could win on one(assuming it’s with a top team)?

Confused by your statement.
Bruce372 wrote:
Do you think if Tomac was on a Suzuki this year he would have the red plate?
NorCalRedRyder wrote:
Not without electic start. But since him and Chase are consistently beating 3rd place by 30 seconds with starts outside the top 10. It's not out...
Not without electic start. But since him and Chase are consistently beating 3rd place by 30 seconds with starts outside the top 10. It's not out of the question....
OUCH! NorCal comes out swinging and...

It's a REALITY HIT!

Kinda nice to see that on the 1st page, too. Cheerful

I find it interesting that...

The Suzuki HASN'T had ANYTHING changed in 5 (going on 6) model years and...yet...it's STILL one of the "Best All Around Handling" bikes in the class. It still craves the inside like nothing-else. It's still stable as an XR650R (Some will say it's as heavy, too...maybe they should weigh their new super-electric-start hot-rod before they comment) and...it's at a decent price, too.

Oh, btw, it's an excellent "off-roader", too.

BUT!!! And this is s Big One...

Going into 2023, it seems, we're gonna be able to BUY a 2023 CRF450RS for $8,799...? (That's a 2022 CRF-R at a discount). You could argue that this was also a valid point when the 2020 CRF450RS sold for the same price as an RMZ...

smoothies862
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smoothies862 8/29/2022 8:55am
8/29/2022 8:55am
Twisted Tea has the best grab your eyes marketing. You could read the shroud every lap it came by. Agreed its one of the top looking bikes and haulers for that matter. Yes i buy some twisted because they are in the sport.
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smoothies862
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smoothies862 8/29/2022 8:55am
8/29/2022 8:55am
Twisted Tea has the best grab your eyes marketing. You could read the shroud every lap it came by. Agreed its one of the top looking bikes and haulers for that matter. Yes i buy some twisted because they are in the sport.
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smoothies862
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smoothies862 8/29/2022 8:56am
8/29/2022 8:56am
Twisted Tea has the best grab your eyes marketing. You could read the shroud every lap it came by. Agreed its one of the top looking bikes and haulers for that matter. Yes i buy some twisted because they are in the sport.
Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 8/29/2022 9:06am
8/29/2022 9:06am
Bruce372 wrote:
So in the time since we last had one of these suzuki threads, has anyone gone out and bought a new suzuki?
I'm in the process.
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Jeffery_Cutty
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Jeffery_Cutty 8/29/2022 9:24am
8/29/2022 9:24am
wrc777 wrote:
Are any independent teams running the 22.5 bike yet in the US? Does the old engine in the new chassis allow them to change the anti-squat...
Are any independent teams running the 22.5 bike yet in the US? Does the old engine in the new chassis allow them to change the anti-squat to be more like the old bike?

The dyno tests are clear, the new engine is significantly faster everywhere and has better throttle response based on the reviews. Vohland didn't seem to be getting out motored by Cooper when they showed the overhead shots on Saturday. The only 250s I see consistently getting out pulled are the Hondas. Suzukis are not usually running high enough to get TV coverage so hard to say on those but they seem to do decent on starts. It would be interesting if they had a top tier rider to see where the bike really stands.
Not a team, Justin rodbell was on one before the switch to hep
soggy
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soggy 8/29/2022 9:31am
8/29/2022 9:31am
Sandusky26 wrote:
I'm in the process.
You didn’t gel with the Kawi man?
soggy
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soggy 8/29/2022 10:00am
8/29/2022 10:00am
Sandusky26 wrote:
I'm in the process.
soggy wrote:
You didn’t gel with the Kawi man?
Sandusky26 wrote:
My RMARMY shits all over the Kawi.
Re-enlisted 🫡
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MXer391
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MXer391 8/29/2022 10:34am
8/29/2022 10:34am
Sandusky26 wrote:
I'm in the process.
soggy wrote:
You didn’t gel with the Kawi man?
Sandusky26 wrote:
My RMARMY shits all over the Kawi.
I've been looking at this thread for 2 days waiting for you to show up... Thanks for not letting me down
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R VanKamp77
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R VanKamp77 8/29/2022 10:39am
8/29/2022 10:39am
bigsal wrote:
MXA just put their 2022 RMZ250 test bike into the show at Washougal with only a pipe and vortex box (like mine), they are still great...
MXA just put their 2022 RMZ250 test bike into the show at Washougal with only a pipe and vortex box (like mine), they are still great bikes I love riding my Suzuki every time out .
I have never felt so comfortable and been as fast as I was on that exact platform. That is an awesome bike, and completely bulletproof to boot.
jrb2216
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jrb2216 8/29/2022 11:24am
8/29/2022 11:24am
ML512 wrote:
Matthes has been talking about HEP too, he actually brought it up before I heard anything.

BarX comments started around Washougal.
Any news of what mfg they would potentially go to?
ML512
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ML512 8/29/2022 12:42pm
8/29/2022 12:42pm
ML512 wrote:
Matthes has been talking about HEP too, he actually brought it up before I heard anything.

BarX comments started around Washougal.
jrb2216 wrote:
Any news of what mfg they would potentially go to?
Kawasaki and KTM are rumored. I think KTM is already off the table though.
alphado
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alphado 8/29/2022 12:45pm
8/29/2022 12:45pm
So no Suzuki teams in 2023?
Payup_199
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Payup_199 8/29/2022 1:08pm
8/29/2022 1:08pm Edited Date/Time 8/29/2022 1:09pm
Seems that since AC9 turned down a Suzuki/HEP contract a few months ago that Suzuki has no interest in more support (?)

With no big names signed, can you blame them?
Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 8/29/2022 1:50pm
8/29/2022 1:50pm
Bruce372 wrote:
So in the time since we last had one of these suzuki threads, has anyone gone out and bought a new suzuki?
Why are you so obsessed with downplaying Suzuki? Genuine question. I could see the hate if people were constantly ranting and raving, saying the bikes are the best thing out there, but they are not. There's one common denominator in every Suzuki thread, and it's you constantly berating them. Live and let live, man.
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Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 8/29/2022 1:53pm
8/29/2022 1:53pm
ML512 wrote:
Matthes has been talking about HEP too, he actually brought it up before I heard anything.

BarX comments started around Washougal.
jrb2216 wrote:
Any news of what mfg they would potentially go to?
ML512 wrote:
Kawasaki and KTM are rumored. I think KTM is already off the table though.
Don’t let those hippies make the same mistake as me, biggest fuck up of my life.
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 8/29/2022 3:19pm
8/29/2022 3:19pm
Bruce372 wrote:
So in the time since we last had one of these suzuki threads, has anyone gone out and bought a new suzuki?
Mr. Afterbar wrote:
Why are you so obsessed with downplaying Suzuki? Genuine question. I could see the hate if people were constantly ranting and raving, saying the bikes are...
Why are you so obsessed with downplaying Suzuki? Genuine question. I could see the hate if people were constantly ranting and raving, saying the bikes are the best thing out there, but they are not. There's one common denominator in every Suzuki thread, and it's you constantly berating them. Live and let live, man.
Sorry, I am not downplaying suzuki, just being objective. They are great bikes, and go back and read, I regret selling my last one.

That said, and maybe where I come off negative is so many people saying how great they are but have never owned one. If you want suzuki professional team at the races, then go out and buy one and give suzuki a really good incentive to develop the bike more.

Mr. Afterbar, what are you riding these days? If it's yellow, I apologize if I've upset you. If it's not yellow, take the drive down from Greenbay to Sportland in south Wisconsin and pick one up! 😀
kiwifan
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kiwifan 8/29/2022 10:49pm
8/29/2022 10:49pm
wrc777 wrote:
The bikes seem to get starts. I suspect it takes a lot more money put into the engine to make a competitive RMZ than a competitive...
The bikes seem to get starts. I suspect it takes a lot more money put into the engine to make a competitive RMZ than a competitive Austrian bike.
soggy wrote:
Tell that to the magpies guys that went back to last gen 250f motor.
wrc777 wrote:
Are any independent teams running the 22.5 bike yet in the US? Does the old engine in the new chassis allow them to change the anti-squat...
Are any independent teams running the 22.5 bike yet in the US? Does the old engine in the new chassis allow them to change the anti-squat to be more like the old bike?

The dyno tests are clear, the new engine is significantly faster everywhere and has better throttle response based on the reviews. Vohland didn't seem to be getting out motored by Cooper when they showed the overhead shots on Saturday. The only 250s I see consistently getting out pulled are the Hondas. Suzukis are not usually running high enough to get TV coverage so hard to say on those but they seem to do decent on starts. It would be interesting if they had a top tier rider to see where the bike really stands.
the Hondas are getting out pulled??? Seriously??? I know you dont like Hondas but heck thats so wrong it aint funny.
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kiwifan
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kiwifan 8/29/2022 10:52pm
8/29/2022 10:52pm
I think they will go Kawasaki
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 8/30/2022 2:20am
8/30/2022 2:20am Edited Date/Time 8/30/2022 4:45am
Payup_199 wrote:
Seems that since AC9 turned down a Suzuki/HEP contract a few months ago that Suzuki has no interest in more support (?) With no big names...
Seems that since AC9 turned down a Suzuki/HEP contract a few months ago that Suzuki has no interest in more support (?)

With no big names signed, can you blame them?
I think Matthes hinted once that the amount Suzuki supports HEP with is shockingly small. One of the reasons JGR folded because they weren't able to keep going with that little support when they struggled to find an outside title sponsor.

So it seems like any of the other OEMs could get a solid B/Satellite-level team in HEP for relatively little money. Or a perfect program for a company like Beta to partner with if they ever want to start SX/MX racing in USA.
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