Graphics Have Limited Shelf Life

Edited Date/Time 11/15/2013 9:22pm
FYI - my bad I guess.

Stockpiled some custom graphics for my bikes.

Broke out a set about 1.5 years old and tried to apply to new plastics.

1. They would not form with heat as newer sets will

2. They will not adhere to the plastic well and come off

3. Worse yet, the clear cover is separating from color graphic base

This backup bike in the garage still not used 3 months after application of graphics.

Factory Backing informed my that after such a long time they are unable to send a free replacement because I waited to long to apply them.

I had no idea graphics go bad with this age level.

Bummer
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DDMX18
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AU
11/14/2013 7:48pm
Yeah thats a bummer, I had the same thing with some old graphics that i had left over (over 12 months old) and they didnt stick too well on the curved parts of my bike when i was frehening it up to sell.

I'm not sure what you could do about the separation between the colour and the clear, but i used a spray on adhesive that worked well. You spray both sides, let it dry and then join them together. It wasnt noticeable when i had finished and they came out good as new....Any residue came off with solvent.
mx757
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Pueblo, CO US
11/14/2013 7:56pm
That seems really weird. Where were they stored? Ive used backgrounds that sat for years and years before, but they were stored inside my house and kept away from the sun until they were installed
bryan
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Location
Wildomar, CA US
11/14/2013 9:56pm
I think vinyl might shrink over time. And since custom graphics are usually two layers of two different types of vinyl, I'd bet they shrink at different rates and that'd likely cause the separation.

I've had some screen-printed graphics sitting around for a solid 7 years and they still look great, though it looks like they've shrunk just a little.
11/15/2013 3:34am
FYI - my bad I guess. Stockpiled some custom graphics for my bikes. Broke out a set about 1.5 years old and tried to apply to...
FYI - my bad I guess.

Stockpiled some custom graphics for my bikes.

Broke out a set about 1.5 years old and tried to apply to new plastics.

1. They would not form with heat as newer sets will

2. They will not adhere to the plastic well and come off

3. Worse yet, the clear cover is separating from color graphic base

This backup bike in the garage still not used 3 months after application of graphics.

Factory Backing informed my that after such a long time they are unable to send a free replacement because I waited to long to apply them.

I had no idea graphics go bad with this age level.

Bummer
Worse yet, the clear cover is separating from color graphic base

That is why you only buy from reputable companies... DecalMX, Enjoi, Factory Effex, ONE.

This is called laminate. 99% of the mom and pop graphic companies out there do this and it is a very shitty way to make graphics, yet the public just eats it up because the company is local (don't get me started on the quality of the artwork or the printing).

I already posted in the last graphics thread about how REAL graphics are printed, but suffice it to say that if they are laminates then the company is substandard.

The Shop

Spagina767
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912
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Location
Fredericksburg, VA US
11/15/2013 5:18am
FYI - my bad I guess. Stockpiled some custom graphics for my bikes. Broke out a set about 1.5 years old and tried to apply to...
FYI - my bad I guess.

Stockpiled some custom graphics for my bikes.

Broke out a set about 1.5 years old and tried to apply to new plastics.

1. They would not form with heat as newer sets will

2. They will not adhere to the plastic well and come off

3. Worse yet, the clear cover is separating from color graphic base

This backup bike in the garage still not used 3 months after application of graphics.

Factory Backing informed my that after such a long time they are unable to send a free replacement because I waited to long to apply them.

I had no idea graphics go bad with this age level.

Bummer
[b]Worse yet, the clear cover is separating from color graphic base[/b] That is why you only buy from reputable companies... DecalMX, Enjoi, Factory Effex, ONE. This...
Worse yet, the clear cover is separating from color graphic base

That is why you only buy from reputable companies... DecalMX, Enjoi, Factory Effex, ONE.

This is called laminate. 99% of the mom and pop graphic companies out there do this and it is a very shitty way to make graphics, yet the public just eats it up because the company is local (don't get me started on the quality of the artwork or the printing).

I already posted in the last graphics thread about how REAL graphics are printed, but suffice it to say that if they are laminates then the company is substandard.
I had the same thing happen with a set of N-Style graphics two years ago so I don't know if its only these "substandard local companies"
ADynes
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IN US
11/15/2013 5:28am
Spagina767 wrote:
I had the same thing happen with a set of N-Style graphics two years ago so I don't know if its only these "substandard local companies"
Ditto, I have the clear top layer separating on a set from one of the big companies he listed. Its only in one spot though, where the airbox decal bends sharply around the radius corner of the airbox. Superglue fixed it.
11/15/2013 6:11am
FYI - my bad I guess. Stockpiled some custom graphics for my bikes. Broke out a set about 1.5 years old and tried to apply to...
FYI - my bad I guess.

Stockpiled some custom graphics for my bikes.

Broke out a set about 1.5 years old and tried to apply to new plastics.

1. They would not form with heat as newer sets will

2. They will not adhere to the plastic well and come off

3. Worse yet, the clear cover is separating from color graphic base

This backup bike in the garage still not used 3 months after application of graphics.

Factory Backing informed my that after such a long time they are unable to send a free replacement because I waited to long to apply them.

I had no idea graphics go bad with this age level.

Bummer
Thank you guys - all of you very much.

I have to say in all honesty that this set of graphics that failed started out in a garage in upstate NY and went down to like 15 degrees, then, across to our new home in So Cal and went through 100+ degrees in the garage.

A little smarter after all of your comments above
therealjonon
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Santa Clarita, CA US
11/15/2013 6:52am
THEFACTORYPILOT, if you don't mind me asking, who are you?
11/15/2013 7:04am
If you store them in a dry, cool place they will last. You can't expect anything to last warping In a trailer.

68 degrees dry and dark they'll be as good as new.
MCP486
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San Diego, CA US
11/15/2013 7:33am Edited Date/Time 11/15/2013 7:54am
THEFACTORYPILOT, if you don't mind me asking, who are you?
Someone who doesn't know much about how plasticizers interact with adhesive…

Since every company that he included in his post laminates, they must all be sub-standard, right, lol?
Renner153
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11/15/2013 9:13am
THEFACTORYPILOT, if you don't mind me asking, who are you?
MCP486 wrote:
Someone who doesn't know much about how plasticizers interact with adhesive… Since every company that he included in his post laminates, they must all be sub-standard...
Someone who doesn't know much about how plasticizers interact with adhesive…

Since every company that he included in his post laminates, they must all be sub-standard, right, lol?
Actually factorypilot is right. Sorta. A lot of the companies listed do use screen printed graphics but not for custom graphics. No custom graphics will be as good as screen printed. Plain and simple. Graphics do have a shelf life. No chance I'd put a set if graphics on that are a year old if they are custom digital graphics. Screen prints can go a few years before they are bad. One industries and factory effex are actually going into digital printing now more than screen printing. Not sure about nstyle but I'm sure most of their stuff is digital too. Enjoy is screen print unless you get custom stuff.

Bottom line is, if you get custom graphics expect for them to be lower quality than a set of team graphics from a major company. There are reasons why mom and pop graphic shops pop up and disappear on a daily basis...
MCP486
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11/15/2013 9:54am
THEFACTORYPILOT, if you don't mind me asking, who are you?
MCP486 wrote:
Someone who doesn't know much about how plasticizers interact with adhesive… Since every company that he included in his post laminates, they must all be sub-standard...
Someone who doesn't know much about how plasticizers interact with adhesive…

Since every company that he included in his post laminates, they must all be sub-standard, right, lol?
Renner153 wrote:
Actually factorypilot is right. Sorta. A lot of the companies listed do use screen printed graphics but not for custom graphics. No custom graphics will be...
Actually factorypilot is right. Sorta. A lot of the companies listed do use screen printed graphics but not for custom graphics. No custom graphics will be as good as screen printed. Plain and simple. Graphics do have a shelf life. No chance I'd put a set if graphics on that are a year old if they are custom digital graphics. Screen prints can go a few years before they are bad. One industries and factory effex are actually going into digital printing now more than screen printing. Not sure about nstyle but I'm sure most of their stuff is digital too. Enjoy is screen print unless you get custom stuff.

Bottom line is, if you get custom graphics expect for them to be lower quality than a set of team graphics from a major company. There are reasons why mom and pop graphic shops pop up and disappear on a daily basis...
I respectfully disagree…I think it would be an accurate statement to say that all graphics, screen-printed or digitally-printed have a finite shelf life. Graphics stored in a climate controlled environment will fare better than graphics stored in a 100+ F warehouse. After six months, neither will perform as well as they did when they were manufactured….not to say that they won't adhere, but they will have a degree of performance loss. The mode of failure between screen/digital may be different, but if any graphic is 1-2 years old, it's past its prime.
Surfinglbi23
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11/15/2013 12:16pm
This does not bode well for the NOS graphics I have sitting around for my 1995 RM125 lol
Bhayz105
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Germantown, MD US
11/15/2013 12:36pm
Everyone is hitting on close to the same point. All vinyl adhesive has a shelf life. However the common misconception is that companies that are not the big 4 (One, FX, N-Style and Decal Works) "sub par" quality is a bit erroneous. The majority of the market buys from only a few suppliers.

Your best bet is if it was custom digital work and has been in the garage, or on the shelf for more than 6 months; get a new set.
Tracktor
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11/15/2013 3:18pm
I have some Throttle Jockey graphics that are delaminating. It's due to a fuel leak in a tank so it's not their fault at all just pointing out that they are a two layer graphic and a high quality, imo, product............
swedishfishmx
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11/15/2013 3:57pm
FYI - my bad I guess. Stockpiled some custom graphics for my bikes. Broke out a set about 1.5 years old and tried to apply to...
FYI - my bad I guess.

Stockpiled some custom graphics for my bikes.

Broke out a set about 1.5 years old and tried to apply to new plastics.

1. They would not form with heat as newer sets will

2. They will not adhere to the plastic well and come off

3. Worse yet, the clear cover is separating from color graphic base

This backup bike in the garage still not used 3 months after application of graphics.

Factory Backing informed my that after such a long time they are unable to send a free replacement because I waited to long to apply them.

I had no idea graphics go bad with this age level.

Bummer
[b]Worse yet, the clear cover is separating from color graphic base[/b] That is why you only buy from reputable companies... DecalMX, Enjoi, Factory Effex, ONE. This...
Worse yet, the clear cover is separating from color graphic base

That is why you only buy from reputable companies... DecalMX, Enjoi, Factory Effex, ONE.

This is called laminate. 99% of the mom and pop graphic companies out there do this and it is a very shitty way to make graphics, yet the public just eats it up because the company is local (don't get me started on the quality of the artwork or the printing).

I already posted in the last graphics thread about how REAL graphics are printed, but suffice it to say that if they are laminates then the company is substandard.
Once again you literally know nothing about graphics.
Rooster
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Location
Edmonton CA
11/15/2013 5:00pm
Renner153 wrote:
Actually factorypilot is right. Sorta. A lot of the companies listed do use screen printed graphics but not for custom graphics. No custom graphics will be...
Actually factorypilot is right. Sorta. A lot of the companies listed do use screen printed graphics but not for custom graphics. No custom graphics will be as good as screen printed. Plain and simple. Graphics do have a shelf life. No chance I'd put a set if graphics on that are a year old if they are custom digital graphics. Screen prints can go a few years before they are bad. One industries and factory effex are actually going into digital printing now more than screen printing. Not sure about nstyle but I'm sure most of their stuff is digital too. Enjoy is screen print unless you get custom stuff.

Bottom line is, if you get custom graphics expect for them to be lower quality than a set of team graphics from a major company. There are reasons why mom and pop graphic shops pop up and disappear on a daily basis...
Actually you're wrong.

Screen printing can produce colors that will not fade as quick and/or be a little more saturated, but there's nothing about the vinyl, the overlaminate or the adhesive that a new inkjet printer cannot produce with superior quality.

UV cured, Resin based or latex inks don't have the same impact on the base vinyls that solvent based inks do. There's also thermal ribbon transfer that possible, but it has the same crappy screening that screen printing has.

Inkjet based manufacturing has superior print quality and much more manufacturing flexibility. If you want to produce 3000 sets of the exact same graphics, then screen printing is the most economical method (for now). This doesn't mean it's the way to produce the highest quality or the best durability. It's just the fastest way to bang out that many.
11/15/2013 7:17pm
Ok so maybe I used some wrong adjectives and put the emfassis on the wrong sillabble....

Nowhere did I say that screened graphics won't break down.

And ya probably could have done better by excluding the word "real" when referring to graphics... graphics are graphics up to a point, but in the end my bet is on those which are not laminated.

And I'd say that I do know a bit about how various heavy duty stickers are made as I ran a company making them and worked closely with a local 3M distributer sourcing the products needed to run an operation such as DecalMX... I've also owned and ran a creen printing company, have much experience with UV-dried inks, automatic presses, etc.

And Dennis, I'm not anyone that you might know, unless you raced at 59th/Mosier Valley/Whitney throughout the 90s.
bryan
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Location
Wildomar, CA US
11/15/2013 7:20pm
Renner153 wrote:
Actually factorypilot is right. Sorta. A lot of the companies listed do use screen printed graphics but not for custom graphics. No custom graphics will be...
Actually factorypilot is right. Sorta. A lot of the companies listed do use screen printed graphics but not for custom graphics. No custom graphics will be as good as screen printed. Plain and simple. Graphics do have a shelf life. No chance I'd put a set if graphics on that are a year old if they are custom digital graphics. Screen prints can go a few years before they are bad. One industries and factory effex are actually going into digital printing now more than screen printing. Not sure about nstyle but I'm sure most of their stuff is digital too. Enjoy is screen print unless you get custom stuff.

Bottom line is, if you get custom graphics expect for them to be lower quality than a set of team graphics from a major company. There are reasons why mom and pop graphic shops pop up and disappear on a daily basis...
Rooster wrote:
Actually you're wrong. Screen printing can produce colors that will not fade as quick and/or be a little more saturated, but there's nothing about the vinyl...
Actually you're wrong.

Screen printing can produce colors that will not fade as quick and/or be a little more saturated, but there's nothing about the vinyl, the overlaminate or the adhesive that a new inkjet printer cannot produce with superior quality.

UV cured, Resin based or latex inks don't have the same impact on the base vinyls that solvent based inks do. There's also thermal ribbon transfer that possible, but it has the same crappy screening that screen printing has.

Inkjet based manufacturing has superior print quality and much more manufacturing flexibility. If you want to produce 3000 sets of the exact same graphics, then screen printing is the most economical method (for now). This doesn't mean it's the way to produce the highest quality or the best durability. It's just the fastest way to bang out that many.
I think Mr. Renner is commenting on the average while Mr. Rooster is commenting on the exception. Maybe something's changed in the last year or two, but screen printing won the durability, color and sharpness contest every time. Digital printing was just the only practical way to make small runs since it was so expensive to setup for screen printing.
JeepnMike
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11/15/2013 7:37pm
You guys are spoiled these days. "Back in the day" we had to actually pick the stickers we wanted on our bikes. If we wanted the stickers and numbers (Dirt Digits) to last, we had to use thick and really freaking sticky sheets of 100% clear vinyl to protect everything. I actually enjoyed spending countless hours putting everything together and layering on the clear sheets and hand cutting it all with new bikes and plastics. All of this pre-done stuff takes a lot of the individualism out of it (other than getting to have your name on your bike).

I am sure if I had to do it now I would just order them up like you guys all do now, but things are definitely different than they were 20 years ago.
11/15/2013 7:41pm
Renner153 wrote:
Actually factorypilot is right. Sorta. A lot of the companies listed do use screen printed graphics but not for custom graphics. No custom graphics will be...
Actually factorypilot is right. Sorta. A lot of the companies listed do use screen printed graphics but not for custom graphics. No custom graphics will be as good as screen printed. Plain and simple. Graphics do have a shelf life. No chance I'd put a set if graphics on that are a year old if they are custom digital graphics. Screen prints can go a few years before they are bad. One industries and factory effex are actually going into digital printing now more than screen printing. Not sure about nstyle but I'm sure most of their stuff is digital too. Enjoy is screen print unless you get custom stuff.

Bottom line is, if you get custom graphics expect for them to be lower quality than a set of team graphics from a major company. There are reasons why mom and pop graphic shops pop up and disappear on a daily basis...
Rooster wrote:
Actually you're wrong. Screen printing can produce colors that will not fade as quick and/or be a little more saturated, but there's nothing about the vinyl...
Actually you're wrong.

Screen printing can produce colors that will not fade as quick and/or be a little more saturated, but there's nothing about the vinyl, the overlaminate or the adhesive that a new inkjet printer cannot produce with superior quality.

UV cured, Resin based or latex inks don't have the same impact on the base vinyls that solvent based inks do. There's also thermal ribbon transfer that possible, but it has the same crappy screening that screen printing has.

Inkjet based manufacturing has superior print quality and much more manufacturing flexibility. If you want to produce 3000 sets of the exact same graphics, then screen printing is the most economical method (for now). This doesn't mean it's the way to produce the highest quality or the best durability. It's just the fastest way to bang out that many.
bryan wrote:
I think Mr. Renner is commenting on the average while Mr. Rooster is commenting on the exception. Maybe something's changed in the last year or two...
I think Mr. Renner is commenting on the average while Mr. Rooster is commenting on the exception. Maybe something's changed in the last year or two, but screen printing won the durability, color and sharpness contest every time. Digital printing was just the only practical way to make small runs since it was so expensive to setup for screen printing.
I agree with what you just said Bryan... except the difference is that I was exhausted and sounded like a huge arsehole when I said it, whilst yours was rational!
Renner153
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11/15/2013 8:42pm
Rooster wrote:
Actually you're wrong. Screen printing can produce colors that will not fade as quick and/or be a little more saturated, but there's nothing about the vinyl...
Actually you're wrong.

Screen printing can produce colors that will not fade as quick and/or be a little more saturated, but there's nothing about the vinyl, the overlaminate or the adhesive that a new inkjet printer cannot produce with superior quality.

UV cured, Resin based or latex inks don't have the same impact on the base vinyls that solvent based inks do. There's also thermal ribbon transfer that possible, but it has the same crappy screening that screen printing has.

Inkjet based manufacturing has superior print quality and much more manufacturing flexibility. If you want to produce 3000 sets of the exact same graphics, then screen printing is the most economical method (for now). This doesn't mean it's the way to produce the highest quality or the best durability. It's just the fastest way to bang out that many.
I've been working at a graphics company for 2 and a half years. I basically run the entire place. A company that does both screen printing and digital printing. And as far as for motorcycle graphics go, screen printed graphics are far more superior in pretty much every way for a bike. Unless you deal with a company that uses crap quality materials. MOST graphic companies use he same materials. The neon yellow tld graphics that enjoy made for them for washougal were screen printed and you will not get that same quality color.

Screen printing is the way to go if you want more than 25 sets of graphics. Digital printing is good but as stated by the OP the laminate shrinks, starts to delaminate, and adhesive loses it's luster. Yes screen printing will shrink but it all shrinks together and the adhesive will last much longer.

And MCP, trust me adhesive will not have a finite shelf life. Unless you got some nasa adhesive or something that will peel the color off of the plastics, which you would never want something that strong, it will go bad after a few years. I deal with graphics anywhere from 10 years old to a day old, trust me they go bad.
11/15/2013 9:01pm
Rooster wrote:
Actually you're wrong. Screen printing can produce colors that will not fade as quick and/or be a little more saturated, but there's nothing about the vinyl...
Actually you're wrong.

Screen printing can produce colors that will not fade as quick and/or be a little more saturated, but there's nothing about the vinyl, the overlaminate or the adhesive that a new inkjet printer cannot produce with superior quality.

UV cured, Resin based or latex inks don't have the same impact on the base vinyls that solvent based inks do. There's also thermal ribbon transfer that possible, but it has the same crappy screening that screen printing has.

Inkjet based manufacturing has superior print quality and much more manufacturing flexibility. If you want to produce 3000 sets of the exact same graphics, then screen printing is the most economical method (for now). This doesn't mean it's the way to produce the highest quality or the best durability. It's just the fastest way to bang out that many.
Renner153 wrote:
I've been working at a graphics company for 2 and a half years. I basically run the entire place. A company that does both screen printing...
I've been working at a graphics company for 2 and a half years. I basically run the entire place. A company that does both screen printing and digital printing. And as far as for motorcycle graphics go, screen printed graphics are far more superior in pretty much every way for a bike. Unless you deal with a company that uses crap quality materials. MOST graphic companies use he same materials. The neon yellow tld graphics that enjoy made for them for washougal were screen printed and you will not get that same quality color.

Screen printing is the way to go if you want more than 25 sets of graphics. Digital printing is good but as stated by the OP the laminate shrinks, starts to delaminate, and adhesive loses it's luster. Yes screen printing will shrink but it all shrinks together and the adhesive will last much longer.

And MCP, trust me adhesive will not have a finite shelf life. Unless you got some nasa adhesive or something that will peel the color off of the plastics, which you would never want something that strong, it will go bad after a few years. I deal with graphics anywhere from 10 years old to a day old, trust me they go bad.
Hey Renner, check your PMs... I need a new printing shop, would like to throw you the business.
MCP486
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11/15/2013 9:06pm Edited Date/Time 11/15/2013 9:10pm
Rooster wrote:
Actually you're wrong. Screen printing can produce colors that will not fade as quick and/or be a little more saturated, but there's nothing about the vinyl...
Actually you're wrong.

Screen printing can produce colors that will not fade as quick and/or be a little more saturated, but there's nothing about the vinyl, the overlaminate or the adhesive that a new inkjet printer cannot produce with superior quality.

UV cured, Resin based or latex inks don't have the same impact on the base vinyls that solvent based inks do. There's also thermal ribbon transfer that possible, but it has the same crappy screening that screen printing has.

Inkjet based manufacturing has superior print quality and much more manufacturing flexibility. If you want to produce 3000 sets of the exact same graphics, then screen printing is the most economical method (for now). This doesn't mean it's the way to produce the highest quality or the best durability. It's just the fastest way to bang out that many.
Renner153 wrote:
I've been working at a graphics company for 2 and a half years. I basically run the entire place. A company that does both screen printing...
I've been working at a graphics company for 2 and a half years. I basically run the entire place. A company that does both screen printing and digital printing. And as far as for motorcycle graphics go, screen printed graphics are far more superior in pretty much every way for a bike. Unless you deal with a company that uses crap quality materials. MOST graphic companies use he same materials. The neon yellow tld graphics that enjoy made for them for washougal were screen printed and you will not get that same quality color.

Screen printing is the way to go if you want more than 25 sets of graphics. Digital printing is good but as stated by the OP the laminate shrinks, starts to delaminate, and adhesive loses it's luster. Yes screen printing will shrink but it all shrinks together and the adhesive will last much longer.

And MCP, trust me adhesive will not have a finite shelf life. Unless you got some nasa adhesive or something that will peel the color off of the plastics, which you would never want something that strong, it will go bad after a few years. I deal with graphics anywhere from 10 years old to a day old, trust me they go bad.
fi·nite
ˈfīnīt/
adjective
1.
having limits or bounds.
Renner153
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11/15/2013 9:11pm
MCP486 wrote:
fi·nite
ˈfīnīt/
adjective
1.
having limits or bounds.
Hahaha I just re-read everything. Didn't even realize what was said haha. I should probably stay off the drugs. Lol. They literally started kicking in as I got on vital tonight and apparently they are working right now haha
MCP486
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Location
San Diego, CA US
11/15/2013 9:21pm
MCP486 wrote:
fi·nite
ˈfīnīt/
adjective
1.
having limits or bounds.
Renner153 wrote:
Hahaha I just re-read everything. Didn't even realize what was said haha. I should probably stay off the drugs. Lol. They literally started kicking in as...
Hahaha I just re-read everything. Didn't even realize what was said haha. I should probably stay off the drugs. Lol. They literally started kicking in as I got on vital tonight and apparently they are working right now haha
Smile
Renner153
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11/15/2013 9:22pm
Pain killers are working good tonight haha! I guess I need to be off of them ASAP tho haha

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