Good to see 4 Zukes in the 450 Main.

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2/16/2020 12:18 PM

Hopefully they will make some changes and add the E button for 2021.

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2/16/2020 12:25 PM

I’m hoping I’ll need a new one for 21 and I love my suzuki now, but if they don’t change a single thing I might have to switch

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2/16/2020 12:31 PM

That's the same amount of kickstart bikes that made the 250 Main.

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2/16/2020 12:40 PM

I’d love to see Suzuki have a little resurgence of the Moto scene... and corporately as well a resurgence. Never rode them but it’s good for the sport.

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2/16/2020 12:43 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/16/2020 12:43 PM

Privateers? HEP is one of the best non factory supported teams in the paddock. They have a GP winner on their payroll.

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2/16/2020 12:56 PM

mb60 wrote:

Hopefully they will make some changes and add the E button for 2021.

I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't been a part of the sport since the beginning of racing until recently. Riders have never been rewarded with an easy start button after a crash or stall until now.

An E button is an insurance policy for crashing or stalling your bike. These are the best riders in the world and they should not be rewarded for making a mistake (an E button when they crash). They should have to start their bikes the old fashioned way like every former champion. Fitness also plays into this. We all know it's not easy to kick start a hot bike in a race.

Those who get to the finish line first with the least amount of crashes (mistakes) should win. E starts took away the negative consequences of crashing or stalling. I'm sure there were championships lost from crashes that resulted in the bike not being able to be restarted quick enough. Times have changed.

E starts and hole shot devices should go away. Why make it easier on them as they are the best in the world? Let's see some wheelies off the gate, not this low rider hole shot device shit.

500 downvotes? smile


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2/16/2020 1:02 PM

mb60 wrote:

Hopefully they will make some changes and add the E button for 2021.

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't been a part of the sport since the beginning of racing until recently. Riders have never been rewarded with an easy start button after a crash or stall until now.

An E button is an insurance policy for crashing or stalling your bike. These are the best riders in the world and they should not be rewarded for making a mistake (an E button when they crash). They should have to start their bikes the old fashioned way like every former champion. Fitness also plays into this. We all know it's not easy to kick start a hot bike in a race.

Those who get to the finish line first with the least amount of crashes (mistakes) should win. E starts took away the negative consequences of crashing or stalling. I'm sure there were championships lost from crashes that resulted in the bike not being able to be restarted quick enough. Times have changed.

E starts and hole shot devices should go away. Why make it easier on them as they are the best in the world? Let's see some wheelies off the gate, not this low rider hole shot device shit.

500 downvotes? smile


Literally all advancements in dirt bikes have brought advantages. By this logic, the bikes should all be steel framed, twin shocks, and non-inverted forks...

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2/16/2020 1:08 PM

mb60 wrote:

Hopefully they will make some changes and add the E button for 2021.

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't been a part of the sport since the beginning of racing until recently. Riders have never been rewarded with an easy start button after a crash or stall until now.

An E button is an insurance policy for crashing or stalling your bike. These are the best riders in the world and they should not be rewarded for making a mistake (an E button when they crash). They should have to start their bikes the old fashioned way like every former champion. Fitness also plays into this. We all know it's not easy to kick start a hot bike in a race.

Those who get to the finish line first with the least amount of crashes (mistakes) should win. E starts took away the negative consequences of crashing or stalling. I'm sure there were championships lost from crashes that resulted in the bike not being able to be restarted quick enough. Times have changed.

E starts and hole shot devices should go away. Why make it easier on them as they are the best in the world? Let's see some wheelies off the gate, not this low rider hole shot device shit.

500 downvotes? smile


mxbrian15 wrote:

Literally all advancements in dirt bikes have brought advantages. By this logic, the bikes should all be steel framed, twin shocks, and non-inverted forks...

Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years, but an E start is a completely different beast we are talking about.

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2/16/2020 1:31 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/16/2020 1:36 PM

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't been a part of the sport since the beginning of racing until recently. Riders have never been rewarded with an easy start button after a crash or stall until now.

An E button is an insurance policy for crashing or stalling your bike. These are the best riders in the world and they should not be rewarded for making a mistake (an E button when they crash). They should have to start their bikes the old fashioned way like every former champion. Fitness also plays into this. We all know it's not easy to kick start a hot bike in a race.

Those who get to the finish line first with the least amount of crashes (mistakes) should win. E starts took away the negative consequences of crashing or stalling. I'm sure there were championships lost from crashes that resulted in the bike not being able to be restarted quick enough. Times have changed.

E starts and hole shot devices should go away. Why make it easier on them as they are the best in the world? Let's see some wheelies off the gate, not this low rider hole shot device shit.

500 downvotes? smile


mxbrian15 wrote:

Literally all advancements in dirt bikes have brought advantages. By this logic, the bikes should all be steel framed, twin shocks, and non-inverted forks...

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years, but an E start is a completely different beast we are talking about.

I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

2/16/2020 1:41 PM

Liquid-radiator-cooled suspension coming soon!

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2/16/2020 1:52 PM

BobPA wrote:

I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.

I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.

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2/16/2020 1:59 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/16/2020 2:01 PM

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't been a part of the sport since the beginning of racing until recently. Riders have never been rewarded with an easy start button after a crash or stall until now.

An E button is an insurance policy for crashing or stalling your bike. These are the best riders in the world and they should not be rewarded for making a mistake (an E button when they crash). They should have to start their bikes the old fashioned way like every former champion. Fitness also plays into this. We all know it's not easy to kick start a hot bike in a race.

Those who get to the finish line first with the least amount of crashes (mistakes) should win. E starts took away the negative consequences of crashing or stalling. I'm sure there were championships lost from crashes that resulted in the bike not being able to be restarted quick enough. Times have changed.

E starts and hole shot devices should go away. Why make it easier on them as they are the best in the world? Let's see some wheelies off the gate, not this low rider hole shot device shit.

500 downvotes? smile


mxbrian15 wrote:

Literally all advancements in dirt bikes have brought advantages. By this logic, the bikes should all be steel framed, twin shocks, and non-inverted forks...

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years, but an E start is a completely different beast we are talking about.

E start has been the biggest competitive tech advantage any mxer has had in recent years.

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2/16/2020 6:28 PM

mxbrian15 wrote:

Literally all advancements in dirt bikes have brought advantages. By this logic, the bikes should all be steel framed, twin shocks, and non-inverted forks...

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years, but an E start is a completely different beast we are talking about.

BobPA wrote:

I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.

According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion until modern "easy buttons" were introduced were faced with the consequences of crashing and stalling their bike. Every single previous champion also had to get their bike restarted after a crash by expending a ton of energy, which sometimes failed completely with a bike that wouldn't restart. Until the "easy button", it wasn't "easy" to get back in the race...now it is.

Comparing this to an evolution of a shock or brake is asinine. Does a shock or brake stop working when the bike is tipped over? And does that shock or brake require the rider to expend a ton of energy to maybe get it working again to maybe re-enter the race for points? Absolutely not. Staying on two wheels should be rewarded like it used to be and crashing should have consequences, just like MotoGP. How different the MotoGP championship landscape would be if MotoGP guys could just pickup their bike and push an easy button to get going again.

If one cannot understand how an easy button completely minimizes the consequences of making mistakes and changes the whole landscape of race wins and championships then you have some soul searching to do. Just realize why you love them on your bike so much, because e start buttons make it easy...I'm all for e starts outside of professional racing.

I do not like seeing a rider sit on the track and kick his bike for 45 seconds while he gets lapped and loses valuable points or even a championship...but guess what, he wouldn't be there if he had not made a mistake and this is how it's always been to separated the champions from the field, until now...

Roczen could have had his championship hopes lost last night by his little tip over if this happened a few years ago. He could have been a lap down while trying to start his bike. But in today's new world he's up instantly and gets back to 3rd place. Absolutely no consequence for making a mistake. This coming from a Roczen fan.

I appreciate racing, especially the number one challenge of staying on two wheels while going fast. Therefore I do not appreciate an easy button in professional SX/MX.

Moments like this with ICE are nearly gone forever until electric bikes take over (unless you ride a RMZ or KX250 smile ) Imagine that, champions used to have to get their bikes started to enter or re-enter the race. Friggin legend right here:

But like you said Bob, it's just my opinion


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2/16/2020 6:36 PM

mb60 wrote:

I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.

What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...

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2/16/2020 6:53 PM

BobPA wrote:

I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.

mb60 wrote:

I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.

xrmark wrote:

What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...

My ‘19 RMZ450 is the easiest bike to kickstart that I’ve owned. Cold, hot....one kick and it starts. All the time.

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2/16/2020 6:54 PM


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2/16/2020 7:02 PM

What I think BDB is say is that a kick started is like a lifted truck with huge wheels and tiny looking tires.

I searched out the 17 crf I bought because I wanted the kicker. If the battery dies (my leg), I can't ride anyway.

This is after owning a 16 ktm. I like living on the risky side knowing that if I fall over I have to kick it.. oh wait... I do have a recluse... Lol

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2/16/2020 7:14 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/16/2020 7:27 PM

BobPA wrote:

I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.

mb60 wrote:

I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.

xrmark wrote:

What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...

I'll just drop this GIF of Kyle Peters hopelessly kicking a newer 250, giving up four positions, while in the same time Cameron Mcadoo stands up, rights his bike and roosts away. And I guarantee you, Peters kicks that thing better than I would all gassed out from picking the bike up -- especially on a 450.

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2/16/2020 7:35 PM

mb60 wrote:

I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.

xrmark wrote:

What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...

malachi177 wrote:

My ‘19 RMZ450 is the easiest bike to kickstart that I’ve owned. Cold, hot....one kick and it starts. All the time.

Agreed. It's very easy to kickstart for me as well.

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2/16/2020 8:15 PM

BobPA wrote:

I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.

mb60 wrote:

I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.

xrmark wrote:

What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...

2017 KX 450 and when you have short legs they are a bitch to restart.

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2/16/2020 9:13 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/16/2020 9:23 PM

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years, but an E start is a completely different beast we are talking about.

BobPA wrote:

I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion until modern "easy buttons" were introduced were faced with the consequences of crashing and stalling their bike. Every single previous champion also had to get their bike restarted after a crash by expending a ton of energy, which sometimes failed completely with a bike that wouldn't restart. Until the "easy button", it wasn't "easy" to get back in the race...now it is.

Comparing this to an evolution of a shock or brake is asinine. Does a shock or brake stop working when the bike is tipped over? And does that shock or brake require the rider to expend a ton of energy to maybe get it working again to maybe re-enter the race for points? Absolutely not. Staying on two wheels should be rewarded like it used to be and crashing should have consequences, just like MotoGP. How different the MotoGP championship landscape would be if MotoGP guys could just pickup their bike and push an easy button to get going again.

If one cannot understand how an easy button completely minimizes the consequences of making mistakes and changes the whole landscape of race wins and championships then you have some soul searching to do. Just realize why you love them on your bike so much, because e start buttons make it easy...I'm all for e starts outside of professional racing.

I do not like seeing a rider sit on the track and kick his bike for 45 seconds while he gets lapped and loses valuable points or even a championship...but guess what, he wouldn't be there if he had not made a mistake and this is how it's always been to separated the champions from the field, until now...

Roczen could have had his championship hopes lost last night by his little tip over if this happened a few years ago. He could have been a lap down while trying to start his bike. But in today's new world he's up instantly and gets back to 3rd place. Absolutely no consequence for making a mistake. This coming from a Roczen fan.

I appreciate racing, especially the number one challenge of staying on two wheels while going fast. Therefore I do not appreciate an easy button in professional SX/MX.

Moments like this with ICE are nearly gone forever until electric bikes take over (unless you ride a RMZ or KX250 smile ) Imagine that, champions used to have to get their bikes started to enter or re-enter the race. Friggin legend right here:

But like you said Bob, it's just my opinion


I can maybe see your point of view? But it is pretty "asinine". By your argument everyone should run flimsy steel bars and cast aluminum levers. This way if you crash and fold them like spaghetti, the penalty will be severe.....Damn you Twinwalls and forged levers....That is how silly your argument sounds.....And yes! A front brake will stop working after a tip over.....Poor argument choice there BTW.

Crashes in MX happen, it is 100% part of the sport, and will never go away. Every single rider will crash during the season. Mistakes will also happen....Especially now coming into the east coast.....Do not care how good the pros are.

I'll agree to disagree, I guess. No one is changing anyone's opinions....You're argument is so silly, it is making me take a few day break from Vital...Cannot afford to lose anymore brain cells.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

2/16/2020 9:41 PM

xrmark wrote:

What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...

malachi177 wrote:

My ‘19 RMZ450 is the easiest bike to kickstart that I’ve owned. Cold, hot....one kick and it starts. All the time.

Mossy wrote:

Agreed. It's very easy to kickstart for me as well.

Have you ever tried to start a bike that is heavily modified? Sometimes they just don't like to start when hot. I had a very built crf250 that started first kick every time, same bike, same build a year later and it never wanted to start hot so we ran the idle at about 2,000 RPM.

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2017 TC250 - The daily
2004 RM144 - The project

2/18/2020 6:20 PM

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years, but an E start is a completely different beast we are talking about.

BobPA wrote:

I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion until modern "easy buttons" were introduced were faced with the consequences of crashing and stalling their bike. Every single previous champion also had to get their bike restarted after a crash by expending a ton of energy, which sometimes failed completely with a bike that wouldn't restart. Until the "easy button", it wasn't "easy" to get back in the race...now it is.

Comparing this to an evolution of a shock or brake is asinine. Does a shock or brake stop working when the bike is tipped over? And does that shock or brake require the rider to expend a ton of energy to maybe get it working again to maybe re-enter the race for points? Absolutely not. Staying on two wheels should be rewarded like it used to be and crashing should have consequences, just like MotoGP. How different the MotoGP championship landscape would be if MotoGP guys could just pickup their bike and push an easy button to get going again.

If one cannot understand how an easy button completely minimizes the consequences of making mistakes and changes the whole landscape of race wins and championships then you have some soul searching to do. Just realize why you love them on your bike so much, because e start buttons make it easy...I'm all for e starts outside of professional racing.

I do not like seeing a rider sit on the track and kick his bike for 45 seconds while he gets lapped and loses valuable points or even a championship...but guess what, he wouldn't be there if he had not made a mistake and this is how it's always been to separated the champions from the field, until now...

Roczen could have had his championship hopes lost last night by his little tip over if this happened a few years ago. He could have been a lap down while trying to start his bike. But in today's new world he's up instantly and gets back to 3rd place. Absolutely no consequence for making a mistake. This coming from a Roczen fan.

I appreciate racing, especially the number one challenge of staying on two wheels while going fast. Therefore I do not appreciate an easy button in professional SX/MX.

Moments like this with ICE are nearly gone forever until electric bikes take over (unless you ride a RMZ or KX250 smile ) Imagine that, champions used to have to get their bikes started to enter or re-enter the race. Friggin legend right here:

But like you said Bob, it's just my opinion


A disc brake reduces your chances of a bigger mistake than a drum brake. So when some bikes had discs and others had old drums, your logic would say that is unfair because you can brake quicker from a mistake where racers with drums would’ve crashed or gone off track. They shouldn’t get that advantage because they made a mistake, right?

Also, while there is an advantage to an e start, that is only if it functions properly. If the starter or battery fails, that racer now has to bump start his bike! You don’t have that problem with a kick start.

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2/18/2020 7:50 PM

BobPA wrote:

I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion until modern "easy buttons" were introduced were faced with the consequences of crashing and stalling their bike. Every single previous champion also had to get their bike restarted after a crash by expending a ton of energy, which sometimes failed completely with a bike that wouldn't restart. Until the "easy button", it wasn't "easy" to get back in the race...now it is.

Comparing this to an evolution of a shock or brake is asinine. Does a shock or brake stop working when the bike is tipped over? And does that shock or brake require the rider to expend a ton of energy to maybe get it working again to maybe re-enter the race for points? Absolutely not. Staying on two wheels should be rewarded like it used to be and crashing should have consequences, just like MotoGP. How different the MotoGP championship landscape would be if MotoGP guys could just pickup their bike and push an easy button to get going again.

If one cannot understand how an easy button completely minimizes the consequences of making mistakes and changes the whole landscape of race wins and championships then you have some soul searching to do. Just realize why you love them on your bike so much, because e start buttons make it easy...I'm all for e starts outside of professional racing.

I do not like seeing a rider sit on the track and kick his bike for 45 seconds while he gets lapped and loses valuable points or even a championship...but guess what, he wouldn't be there if he had not made a mistake and this is how it's always been to separated the champions from the field, until now...

Roczen could have had his championship hopes lost last night by his little tip over if this happened a few years ago. He could have been a lap down while trying to start his bike. But in today's new world he's up instantly and gets back to 3rd place. Absolutely no consequence for making a mistake. This coming from a Roczen fan.

I appreciate racing, especially the number one challenge of staying on two wheels while going fast. Therefore I do not appreciate an easy button in professional SX/MX.

Moments like this with ICE are nearly gone forever until electric bikes take over (unless you ride a RMZ or KX250 smile ) Imagine that, champions used to have to get their bikes started to enter or re-enter the race. Friggin legend right here:

But like you said Bob, it's just my opinion


mxbrian15 wrote:

A disc brake reduces your chances of a bigger mistake than a drum brake. So when some bikes had discs and others had old drums, your logic would say that is unfair because you can brake quicker from a mistake where racers with drums would’ve crashed or gone off track. They shouldn’t get that advantage because they made a mistake, right?

Also, while there is an advantage to an e start, that is only if it functions properly. If the starter or battery fails, that racer now has to bump start his bike! You don’t have that problem with a kick start.

Brian,

If you really can't understand the concept and implications of the easy button completely changing the landscape and you're still trying to compare it to disk/drum brake technology after my explanation above, then I'm really sorry. I feel for you.

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2/18/2020 7:59 PM

mb60 wrote:

I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.

xrmark wrote:

What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...

Dirty Points wrote:

I'll just drop this GIF of Kyle Peters hopelessly kicking a newer 250, giving up four positions, while in the same time Cameron Mcadoo stands up, rights his bike and roosts away. And I guarantee you, Peters kicks that thing better than I would all gassed out from picking the bike up -- especially on a 450.

How about Justin cooper a few rounds ago??

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2/18/2020 8:16 PM

mb60 wrote:

Hopefully they will make some changes and add the E button for 2021.

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't been a part of the sport since the beginning of racing until recently. Riders have never been rewarded with an easy start button after a crash or stall until now.

An E button is an insurance policy for crashing or stalling your bike. These are the best riders in the world and they should not be rewarded for making a mistake (an E button when they crash). They should have to start their bikes the old fashioned way like every former champion. Fitness also plays into this. We all know it's not easy to kick start a hot bike in a race.

Those who get to the finish line first with the least amount of crashes (mistakes) should win. E starts took away the negative consequences of crashing or stalling. I'm sure there were championships lost from crashes that resulted in the bike not being able to be restarted quick enough. Times have changed.

E starts and hole shot devices should go away. Why make it easier on them as they are the best in the world? Let's see some wheelies off the gate, not this low rider hole shot device shit.

500 downvotes? smile


I don't the electric start is a bridge too far, but I agree with you in general.

It falls into the category of nice, but unnecessary.

Motocross bikes are supposed to be inexpensive, spartan pieces of machinery.

Continually adding expense moves us closer to something like road racing - which is now basically DOA as an amateur sport.

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2/19/2020 12:33 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/19/2020 12:34 AM

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion until modern "easy buttons" were introduced were faced with the consequences of crashing and stalling their bike. Every single previous champion also had to get their bike restarted after a crash by expending a ton of energy, which sometimes failed completely with a bike that wouldn't restart. Until the "easy button", it wasn't "easy" to get back in the race...now it is.

Comparing this to an evolution of a shock or brake is asinine. Does a shock or brake stop working when the bike is tipped over? And does that shock or brake require the rider to expend a ton of energy to maybe get it working again to maybe re-enter the race for points? Absolutely not. Staying on two wheels should be rewarded like it used to be and crashing should have consequences, just like MotoGP. How different the MotoGP championship landscape would be if MotoGP guys could just pickup their bike and push an easy button to get going again.

If one cannot understand how an easy button completely minimizes the consequences of making mistakes and changes the whole landscape of race wins and championships then you have some soul searching to do. Just realize why you love them on your bike so much, because e start buttons make it easy...I'm all for e starts outside of professional racing.

I do not like seeing a rider sit on the track and kick his bike for 45 seconds while he gets lapped and loses valuable points or even a championship...but guess what, he wouldn't be there if he had not made a mistake and this is how it's always been to separated the champions from the field, until now...

Roczen could have had his championship hopes lost last night by his little tip over if this happened a few years ago. He could have been a lap down while trying to start his bike. But in today's new world he's up instantly and gets back to 3rd place. Absolutely no consequence for making a mistake. This coming from a Roczen fan.

I appreciate racing, especially the number one challenge of staying on two wheels while going fast. Therefore I do not appreciate an easy button in professional SX/MX.

Moments like this with ICE are nearly gone forever until electric bikes take over (unless you ride a RMZ or KX250 smile ) Imagine that, champions used to have to get their bikes started to enter or re-enter the race. Friggin legend right here:

But like you said Bob, it's just my opinion


mxbrian15 wrote:

A disc brake reduces your chances of a bigger mistake than a drum brake. So when some bikes had discs and others had old drums, your logic would say that is unfair because you can brake quicker from a mistake where racers with drums would’ve crashed or gone off track. They shouldn’t get that advantage because they made a mistake, right?

Also, while there is an advantage to an e start, that is only if it functions properly. If the starter or battery fails, that racer now has to bump start his bike! You don’t have that problem with a kick start.

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

Brian,

If you really can't understand the concept and implications of the easy button completely changing the landscape and you're still trying to compare it to disk/drum brake technology after my explanation above, then I'm really sorry. I feel for you.

He will be fine. Some of us think your argument is shit too. It must be hard for a mastermind like yourself to deal with all the commoners on vital.

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2/19/2020 3:34 AM

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion until modern "easy buttons" were introduced were faced with the consequences of crashing and stalling their bike. Every single previous champion also had to get their bike restarted after a crash by expending a ton of energy, which sometimes failed completely with a bike that wouldn't restart. Until the "easy button", it wasn't "easy" to get back in the race...now it is.

Comparing this to an evolution of a shock or brake is asinine. Does a shock or brake stop working when the bike is tipped over? And does that shock or brake require the rider to expend a ton of energy to maybe get it working again to maybe re-enter the race for points? Absolutely not. Staying on two wheels should be rewarded like it used to be and crashing should have consequences, just like MotoGP. How different the MotoGP championship landscape would be if MotoGP guys could just pickup their bike and push an easy button to get going again.

If one cannot understand how an easy button completely minimizes the consequences of making mistakes and changes the whole landscape of race wins and championships then you have some soul searching to do. Just realize why you love them on your bike so much, because e start buttons make it easy...I'm all for e starts outside of professional racing.

I do not like seeing a rider sit on the track and kick his bike for 45 seconds while he gets lapped and loses valuable points or even a championship...but guess what, he wouldn't be there if he had not made a mistake and this is how it's always been to separated the champions from the field, until now...

Roczen could have had his championship hopes lost last night by his little tip over if this happened a few years ago. He could have been a lap down while trying to start his bike. But in today's new world he's up instantly and gets back to 3rd place. Absolutely no consequence for making a mistake. This coming from a Roczen fan.

I appreciate racing, especially the number one challenge of staying on two wheels while going fast. Therefore I do not appreciate an easy button in professional SX/MX.

Moments like this with ICE are nearly gone forever until electric bikes take over (unless you ride a RMZ or KX250 smile ) Imagine that, champions used to have to get their bikes started to enter or re-enter the race. Friggin legend right here:

But like you said Bob, it's just my opinion


mxbrian15 wrote:

A disc brake reduces your chances of a bigger mistake than a drum brake. So when some bikes had discs and others had old drums, your logic would say that is unfair because you can brake quicker from a mistake where racers with drums would’ve crashed or gone off track. They shouldn’t get that advantage because they made a mistake, right?

Also, while there is an advantage to an e start, that is only if it functions properly. If the starter or battery fails, that racer now has to bump start his bike! You don’t have that problem with a kick start.

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

Brian,

If you really can't understand the concept and implications of the easy button completely changing the landscape and you're still trying to compare it to disk/drum brake technology after my explanation above, then I'm really sorry. I feel for you.

Lol! Please don’t waste your time feeling sorry for me. We disagree on a petty topic of opinion. I won’t lose any sleep.

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