Give a privateer a chance

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12/26/2018 6:05 PM

I've been giving this a little bit of thought- mind you maybe not great thoughts, but thoughts none-the-less.

As Supercross season is getting ready to start are there some simple ways to give privateers at least a fighting chance against the factory bikes. I already get it that the factory riders are factory riders because they are the best, but put those best riders on the best bikes and the privateer doesn't stand a chance.

There are some simple things that would help. Not in any particular order.

1. No "development" tires. All riders have access to the same manufacturer tire whether it's Bridgestone, Dunlop, Pirelli, etc. All the tires a production models.

2. No more PRO6 VP fuel- it's too expensive (15 gallon drum is $588) and that fuel probably allows the factories to build an engine that is way more powerful than what the privateer can afford/manage. Everyone runs T4.

3. All entered riders are allowed on press day practice.

4. Maximum of 3 motors per team that are sealed. You're penalized points if you need additional motors. Doesn't include clutches.

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12/26/2018 6:10 PM

press day practice is not set up for more than a few riders and normally they don't use the whole track, not much advantage to it , a rider would be better off staying home an extra day and training on a real track.

3 engines per rider or Team ? that is a non issue I doubt they change engines that often on race days in SX.

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12/26/2018 6:12 PM

There's usually privateers who ride press day and it doesn't really give them an advantage come race day, especially since it's just a section of the track like an SX triple and a rhythm.

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12/26/2018 6:13 PM

Talent shines through even on a non factory bike. The rules you suggest wont make any difference. Racing is not a poor mans sport. The bikes the "privateers" are riding are not holding them back and have you seen some of the rigs and set ups the "privateers" are taking to the races ? No need to feel sorry for them. If they have what it takes the factorys already know about them.

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Ed Johnson

12/26/2018 6:17 PM

How much you wanna make a bet I can throw a football over them mountains?... Yeah... Coach woulda put me in fourth quarter, we would've been state champions. No doubt. No doubt in my mind.Photo

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Ed Johnson

12/26/2018 6:21 PM

I tried to give my posts a thumbs down but it wont let me.

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Ed Johnson

12/26/2018 6:26 PM

The 4 AM press ride sucks for every rider that has to do it.

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12/26/2018 7:43 PM

500guy wrote:

press day practice is not set up for more than a few riders and normally they don't use the whole track, not much advantage to ...more

3 engines per rider for the whole series (17 races 450), 2 engines per West/East Coast Lites series.

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12/26/2018 7:51 PM

The fuel retail price limits would be a good idea honestly.

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12/26/2018 7:53 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/26/2018 7:54 PM

500guy wrote:

press day practice is not set up for more than a few riders and normally they don't use the whole track, not much advantage to ...more

brettmx wrote:

3 engines per rider for the whole series (17 races 450), 2 engines per West/East Coast Lites series.

Sealed engines or limited engines for a season in Moto in my opinion are a horrible idea. In car racing it’s fine because when it blows up you’re not going to get hurt. In Moto most privateers are going to struggle to build a competitive engine that doesn’t grenade after that many hours, they’re going to get hurt with a rule like that when it lets go at a bad time. Believe it or not, most of the top 250 teams have engine combos that will wreck privateers and still go 15 operating hours without a problem. Privateers have engine builders with so much less R&D time they’re struggling to make that kind of power and keep it that reliable. At that point, I believe you’re putting a privateer in larger danger than a factory rider.

However, I totally agree with fuel and tire rules. I’ve posted many times myself that I want a production tire rule and a much cheaper spec fuel. Maybe something with lesser aditivies so teams with large amounts of dyno and R&D time can’t perfect an ECU to take advantage of great fuel.

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12/26/2018 8:02 PM

I’m with Mike Lindsay here. Tyres and fuel yes, engines no.

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12/26/2018 8:12 PM

U really want privateers to have a shot? 250 2 strokes in the 250f class /thread..

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12/26/2018 8:28 PM

I agree with you on the tires aspect, that's probably WAY bigger of a benefit than most people realize.

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If it can't be fixed with a hammer, it's an electrical problem.

12/26/2018 9:17 PM

How about limiting suspension? Aside from the engine, isn’t that what separates the Factory boys from everyone else? Let the Factory guys have their engines, but make them ride the same suspension as Joe Blow.


Remember the IROC races in NASCAR? Everyone got the same equipment. Why can’t that be a thing for moto? For moto, everyone rides a production bike. May the best manufacturer win (and we all benefit from that because we would probably end up with even better bikes).

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12/26/2018 9:39 PM

500guy wrote:

press day practice is not set up for more than a few riders and normally they don't use the whole track, not much advantage to ...more

brettmx wrote:

3 engines per rider for the whole series (17 races 450), 2 engines per West/East Coast Lites series.

ML512 wrote:

Sealed engines or limited engines for a season in Moto in my opinion are a horrible idea. In car racing it’s fine because when ...more

100% agree on Tires. This is the only professional motor sport without spec tires.

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12/26/2018 10:28 PM

T-Fish wrote:

How about limiting suspension? Aside from the engine, isn’t that what separates the Factory boys from everyone else? Let the ...more

yeah we’d get a great production bike, for 20k.

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Alright Lunger, Let's Do It

12/26/2018 10:39 PM

I prefer to see the top riders on amazing motorcycles, why limit what they can do? Tires and fuel I’ll give you but everything else is a go for me, nothing like a full built factory motorcycle!

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Don’t piss off the old people - the older they get the less “life in prison” is a deterrent for them!

2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250

12/26/2018 10:40 PM

T-Fish wrote:

How about limiting suspension? Aside from the engine, isn’t that what separates the Factory boys from everyone else? Let the ...more

Johnny Ringo wrote:

yeah we’d get a great production bike, for 20k.

Yeah, no it wouldnt work that way lol.

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12/27/2018 8:16 AM

$588 for 15 gallons isn't that bad when you put it in perspective.
$39.2 per gallon.

How many gallons do you go thru in a weekend between practices & the races?
I suspect in the long game, fuel is a very minor expense.


You don't have to put in a production tire rule, just that all tires are accessible to all riders in the series.

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12/27/2018 8:26 AM

How about a Go Fund Me page? Could start an entire team of privateers, using the dollars raised!

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12/27/2018 8:52 AM

Remember the rules are set up to protect the factory teams and the privateers are the fillers to make it a show.
We have seen a privateer excel when the factory has to fill in a spot with a better bike setup and better practice sessions away from the races during the week.
It helps quite a bit to bring them up another level in the results and maybe another chance for a seat the following year.
That’s why only a small percentage make it.

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12/27/2018 9:01 AM

Mr. Info wrote:

Remember the rules are set up to protect the factory teams and the privateers are the fillers to make it a show.
We have seen ...more

There is only a small percentage that have all the pieces to be there, you can blame what ever you want.

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12/27/2018 4:48 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/27/2018 5:09 PM

Seems like a good place to make an offer (without clogging the board with more threads).

If you're a true privateer and want to race the Florida National on June 22nd, we have a place for you - if you need support. We have two spare rooms, a private bathroom, private practice track, and North Florida MX (3 miles from here). We also have a 30 amp hook up for your camper - should you so desire. We will charge you nothing and provide meals, showers, clothes washing machines, etc. As I said above, there are two spare bedrooms. In one, there's a queen bed for a couple. In the other is a futon for your mechanic or friend. PM here if you're interested. We are located about forty minutes from WW.

No, we're not serial killers or twisted freaks - just quiet folks that love moto and love to support the backbone of pro racing - privateers.

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12/27/2018 4:59 PM

Make the mains 5 laps and hope to god they can get a decent start. Do you notice the back half of the field towards the end of a SX Main event? It looks like they can barely make it around the track after 10 laps. Blame it on whatever you want but the reality is the factory riders are the fastest and in the best shape. They deserve the best equipment

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12/27/2018 5:31 PM


No factory mechanics at the first turn or spotters on the track.
Starting positions by lottery out of a hat right before the Moto.
No provisional crap. You don't make the main, you don't make the main.
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12/27/2018 6:14 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/27/2018 6:24 PM

Mr. Info wrote:

Remember the rules are set up to protect the factory teams and the privateers are the fillers to make it a show.
We have seen ...more

w00t w00t w00t So which privateers really excelled when he was giving a factory fill in spot ? The only true privateer I ever saw get a factory bike for a race was Scott Champion and it didn't make much difference. You could give me the best guitar ever made and I still couldn't play it. You either have it or you don't and a factory bike and private test track might help a little but wont make you win unless you have the talent and only a few can get to the top step.
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Ed Johnson

12/27/2018 6:17 PM

Probably should just hand out equal-sized participation trophies before the races even start and give everyone the same purse payout as well..........

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12/27/2018 7:00 PM


I dunno guys, all these bits and pieces, imho, won't change much.
The thing the top guys have is consistency. Every week, good equipment. Every week, a solid training routine.
Every week, a paycheck. Every week, riding as much as they want. Every week a flight to the track. Every week
mechanics keeping your bikes in top shape.

Sure, a really good rider might have a good day every now and then. But, there is so much to do, so much to look after
at that level, it's no wonder Johnny Average rarely pops a good finish. I think that's what Reeds problem was when he was running his own show.

Agreed, there are a few that come down the pike now and then that have so much talent they will make the grade no matter what. McGrath. RC. Stewart to name a few. But, given the factory treatment, unless you are a never will squid,
I believe there are a lot of guys that could make the top.

That's what I think anyway.
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12/27/2018 10:37 PM

Mr. Info wrote:

Remember the rules are set up to protect the factory teams and the privateers are the fillers to make it a show.
We have seen ...more

lostboy819 wrote: w00t w00t w00t So which privateers really excelled when he was giving a factory fill in spot ? The only true privateer I ever saw get a ...more

Freddy Noren comes to mind. But other than that, your whole post is correct.

Old Blood, you really shouldn’t drink and post. It never works out well for you.

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12/29/2018 2:33 PM

The "Nuclear" option. Bring back the claim rule.

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