GasGas US Mx Sx factory team?

I said it in a other topic before. Buttler brothers are probably becoming GasGas and will go from only 450 to a team who runs both 250 and 450 over time.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see ktm snap up JGR that way they have a full shop on the east cost, aldons in Florida and then the race shops in Cali. That is the most bang for your buck deal.

rob162 wrote:

I also wouldn't be surprised to see ktm snap up JGR that way they have a full shop on the east cost, aldons in Florida and then the race shops in Cali. That is the most bang for your buck deal.

Much easier to continue with Butler, a team they've been working with for well over 5 years? They know what they'll get with those guys.

rob162 wrote:

I also wouldn't be surprised to see ktm snap up JGR that way they have a full shop on the east cost, aldons in Florida and then the race shops in Cali. That is the most bang for your buck deal.

Motofinne wrote:

Much easier to continue with Butler, a team they've been working with for well over 5 years? They know what they'll get with those guys.

I would also say its a little sad for JGR.

They had such big plans to change the game and did some really interesting stuff with the early reverse engine Yamahas. They really used their Nascar connection to do interesting stuff.... Since it basically has been unsuccessful, or only as successful as a Rock River type team but with so much more money spent its just sad what it has become.


I wonder whether JGR would even want to be a cookie cutter corporate team? Or do they want to keep a certain flavour and if they cant maybe close up shop?

Zacka 161 wrote:

I would also say its a little sad for JGR.

They had such big plans to change the game and did some really interesting stuff with the early reverse engine Yamahas. They really used their Nascar connection to do interesting stuff.... Since it basically has been unsuccessful, or only as successful as a Rock River type team but with so much more money spent its just sad what it has become.


I wonder whether JGR would even want to be a cookie cutter corporate team? Or do they want to keep a certain flavour and if they cant maybe close up shop?

I cant see JGR being a ktm/husky/gasgas team their hands would be tied no custom in house work or engine building and that’s what they’re known for

rob162 wrote:

I also wouldn't be surprised to see ktm snap up JGR that way they have a full shop on the east cost, aldons in Florida and then the race shops in Cali. That is the most bang for your buck deal.

Motofinne wrote:

Much easier to continue with Butler, a team they've been working with for well over 5 years? They know what they'll get with those guys.

Zacka 161 wrote:

I would also say its a little sad for JGR.

They had such big plans to change the game and did some really interesting stuff with the early reverse engine Yamahas. They really used their Nascar connection to do interesting stuff.... Since it basically has been unsuccessful, or only as successful as a Rock River type team but with so much more money spent its just sad what it has become.


I wonder whether JGR would even want to be a cookie cutter corporate team? Or do they want to keep a certain flavour and if they cant maybe close up shop?

I foresee some kind of middle ground here...

On KTM's side, they would basically have an additional legit fabrication facility that can make almost anything to their specs. Has to be value in that.

From JGR's side, I think you latch on to a cutting edge OEM who might restrict the "creative freedom" JGR is used to, but also have the bank roll to supplement the efforts financially - not to mention the potential addition of a GNCC support program.

Or... JGR sticks with the same OEM that obviously doesn't give a shit about investing in it's moto tech or factory support team.

IMO - the choice is obvious. Time will tell..

JGR to Bultaco

Forgive me if I have this wrong but couldn’t any team be exactly like the Butler Bro’s team if they had deep enough pockets? KTM doesn’t give them anything for free, they lease the bikes and works parts from KTM from what I understand. Couldn’t JGR do they exact same thing if they wanted to?

I seem to remember a custom shock or something on Short’s bike years ago that the Butler’s team custom made, so it’s not like they are locked down or limited to what KTM says that can and can’t run.

aeffertz wrote:

Forgive me if I have this wrong but couldn’t any team be exactly like the Butler Bro’s team if they had deep enough pockets? KTM doesn’t give them anything for free, they lease the bikes and works parts from KTM from what I understand. Couldn’t JGR do they exact same thing if they wanted to?

I seem to remember a custom shock or something on Short’s bike years ago that the Butler’s team custom made, so it’s not like they are locked down or limited to what KTM says that can and can’t run.

Air shock on shorts bike was works ktm WP.
Bto is on full factory bikes. They pay for them but in the same sense that red bull ktm pays for theirs.

aeffertz wrote:

Forgive me if I have this wrong but couldn’t any team be exactly like the Butler Bro’s team if they had deep enough pockets? KTM doesn’t give them anything for free, they lease the bikes and works parts from KTM from what I understand. Couldn’t JGR do they exact same thing if they wanted to?

I seem to remember a custom shock or something on Short’s bike years ago that the Butler’s team custom made, so it’s not like they are locked down or limited to what KTM says that can and can’t run.

rob162 wrote:

Air shock on shorts bike was works ktm WP.
Bto is on full factory bikes. They pay for them but in the same sense that red bull ktm pays for theirs.

What a shame nothing eventuated from the air shock, it looked trick.

rob162 wrote:

I also wouldn't be surprised to see ktm snap up JGR that way they have a full shop on the east cost, aldons in Florida and then the race shops in Cali. That is the most bang for your buck deal.

Motofinne wrote:

Much easier to continue with Butler, a team they've been working with for well over 5 years? They know what they'll get with those guys.

Zacka 161 wrote:

I would also say its a little sad for JGR.

They had such big plans to change the game and did some really interesting stuff with the early reverse engine Yamahas. They really used their Nascar connection to do interesting stuff.... Since it basically has been unsuccessful, or only as successful as a Rock River type team but with so much more money spent its just sad what it has become.


I wonder whether JGR would even want to be a cookie cutter corporate team? Or do they want to keep a certain flavour and if they cant maybe close up shop?

JGR has had poor bikes IMO. Not saying what they can do to a dirt bike is poor, just saying that it was basically impossible to get any title contender with the backwards motor Yamahas, and then switching over to Suzuki when they were on a decline with a not very up to date bike. Even after Suzuki came out with their new 450 it still is behind all the other brands. The reverse engine Yamahas (in the early years) and now the Suzuki’s haven’t helped them with getting talent at all IMO. They probably would’ve had more luck with just buying their own Honda’s and going racing. If Butler Bro’s KTM does switch to be the factory GasGas team, maybe JGR can pick up their void as the satellite KTM 450 team. Or Husky uses JGR to run a 450 satellite program or to run the official 250 program ala TLD KTM?

JGR should go Kawasaki 450 team because no satelite team there right now. They could benefit from Kawasaki 250 operations with upcoming talent that just cant all fit to factory Kawasaki.
If they hop into KTM/Husky/GasGas they need strong outside sponsors anyway.

Motofinne wrote:

Much easier to continue with Butler, a team they've been working with for well over 5 years? They know what they'll get with those guys.

Zacka 161 wrote:

I would also say its a little sad for JGR.

They had such big plans to change the game and did some really interesting stuff with the early reverse engine Yamahas. They really used their Nascar connection to do interesting stuff.... Since it basically has been unsuccessful, or only as successful as a Rock River type team but with so much more money spent its just sad what it has become.


I wonder whether JGR would even want to be a cookie cutter corporate team? Or do they want to keep a certain flavour and if they cant maybe close up shop?

mxjon454 wrote:

JGR has had poor bikes IMO. Not saying what they can do to a dirt bike is poor, just saying that it was basically impossible to get any title contender with the backwards motor Yamahas, and then switching over to Suzuki when they were on a decline with a not very up to date bike. Even after Suzuki came out with their new 450 it still is behind all the other brands. The reverse engine Yamahas (in the early years) and now the Suzuki’s haven’t helped them with getting talent at all IMO. They probably would’ve had more luck with just buying their own Honda’s and going racing. If Butler Bro’s KTM does switch to be the factory GasGas team, maybe JGR can pick up their void as the satellite KTM 450 team. Or Husky uses JGR to run a 450 satellite program or to run the official 250 program ala TLD KTM?

Did someone force JGR to Yamaha in those early years? Did someone force JGR to Suzuki when everyone knew their situation? No.

They made those calls themselves.

Zacka 161 wrote:

I would also say its a little sad for JGR.

They had such big plans to change the game and did some really interesting stuff with the early reverse engine Yamahas. They really used their Nascar connection to do interesting stuff.... Since it basically has been unsuccessful, or only as successful as a Rock River type team but with so much more money spent its just sad what it has become.


I wonder whether JGR would even want to be a cookie cutter corporate team? Or do they want to keep a certain flavour and if they cant maybe close up shop?

mxjon454 wrote:

JGR has had poor bikes IMO. Not saying what they can do to a dirt bike is poor, just saying that it was basically impossible to get any title contender with the backwards motor Yamahas, and then switching over to Suzuki when they were on a decline with a not very up to date bike. Even after Suzuki came out with their new 450 it still is behind all the other brands. The reverse engine Yamahas (in the early years) and now the Suzuki’s haven’t helped them with getting talent at all IMO. They probably would’ve had more luck with just buying their own Honda’s and going racing. If Butler Bro’s KTM does switch to be the factory GasGas team, maybe JGR can pick up their void as the satellite KTM 450 team. Or Husky uses JGR to run a 450 satellite program or to run the official 250 program ala TLD KTM?

Motofinne wrote:

Did someone force JGR to Yamaha in those early years? Did someone force JGR to Suzuki when everyone knew their situation? No.

They made those calls themselves.

I know nobody forced them to those brands at those specific times, they probably went with them because of the support that they were offered. By going with these two brands though have hurt them and maybe it would’ve been better for them to go with a brand that would’ve attracted better riders that would’ve delivered better results which maybe would’ve gotten them support from said brand. It probably would’ve been better from them to go the Mile Genova route and buy Hondas, start doing good on that brand and then gain support. There’s a reason JGR is in the position they’re in, hopefully it changes so they stay in the sport. But if they want to sign a higher level guy they need to go to a different brand. The only reason they Savagty is because this was the best deal he could get with all the other teams being full.

Motofinne wrote:

Much easier to continue with Butler, a team they've been working with for well over 5 years? They know what they'll get with those guys.

Zacka 161 wrote:

I would also say its a little sad for JGR.

They had such big plans to change the game and did some really interesting stuff with the early reverse engine Yamahas. They really used their Nascar connection to do interesting stuff.... Since it basically has been unsuccessful, or only as successful as a Rock River type team but with so much more money spent its just sad what it has become.


I wonder whether JGR would even want to be a cookie cutter corporate team? Or do they want to keep a certain flavour and if they cant maybe close up shop?

mxjon454 wrote:

JGR has had poor bikes IMO. Not saying what they can do to a dirt bike is poor, just saying that it was basically impossible to get any title contender with the backwards motor Yamahas, and then switching over to Suzuki when they were on a decline with a not very up to date bike. Even after Suzuki came out with their new 450 it still is behind all the other brands. The reverse engine Yamahas (in the early years) and now the Suzuki’s haven’t helped them with getting talent at all IMO. They probably would’ve had more luck with just buying their own Honda’s and going racing. If Butler Bro’s KTM does switch to be the factory GasGas team, maybe JGR can pick up their void as the satellite KTM 450 team. Or Husky uses JGR to run a 450 satellite program or to run the official 250 program ala TLD KTM?

You do know JGR switched to Suzuki just one month after Ken Roczen wrapped up the outdoor title on the very same bike?? That Suzuki was more than capable of winning & still is with the right rider.

Zacka 161 wrote:

I would also say its a little sad for JGR.

They had such big plans to change the game and did some really interesting stuff with the early reverse engine Yamahas. They really used their Nascar connection to do interesting stuff.... Since it basically has been unsuccessful, or only as successful as a Rock River type team but with so much more money spent its just sad what it has become.


I wonder whether JGR would even want to be a cookie cutter corporate team? Or do they want to keep a certain flavour and if they cant maybe close up shop?

mxjon454 wrote:

JGR has had poor bikes IMO. Not saying what they can do to a dirt bike is poor, just saying that it was basically impossible to get any title contender with the backwards motor Yamahas, and then switching over to Suzuki when they were on a decline with a not very up to date bike. Even after Suzuki came out with their new 450 it still is behind all the other brands. The reverse engine Yamahas (in the early years) and now the Suzuki’s haven’t helped them with getting talent at all IMO. They probably would’ve had more luck with just buying their own Honda’s and going racing. If Butler Bro’s KTM does switch to be the factory GasGas team, maybe JGR can pick up their void as the satellite KTM 450 team. Or Husky uses JGR to run a 450 satellite program or to run the official 250 program ala TLD KTM?

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

You do know JGR switched to Suzuki just one month after Ken Roczen wrapped up the outdoor title on the very same bike?? That Suzuki was more than capable of winning & still is with the right rider.

But the support is next to none. You could probably argue that a 2020 TM 450 is capable of winning outdoor races with prime Roczen on it but the support will be bad.

Anyone spotted GASGAS factory bike (Coldenhoff) pics?

David934 wrote:

Anyone spotted GASGAS factory bike (Coldenhoff) pics?

Last photos I saw of 'Hoff was on a KTM still. It's rumored he may start on a KTM and switch to the GG later from what I read.

Zacka 161 wrote:

I would also say its a little sad for JGR.

They had such big plans to change the game and did some really interesting stuff with the early reverse engine Yamahas. They really used their Nascar connection to do interesting stuff.... Since it basically has been unsuccessful, or only as successful as a Rock River type team but with so much more money spent its just sad what it has become.


I wonder whether JGR would even want to be a cookie cutter corporate team? Or do they want to keep a certain flavour and if they cant maybe close up shop?

mxjon454 wrote:

JGR has had poor bikes IMO. Not saying what they can do to a dirt bike is poor, just saying that it was basically impossible to get any title contender with the backwards motor Yamahas, and then switching over to Suzuki when they were on a decline with a not very up to date bike. Even after Suzuki came out with their new 450 it still is behind all the other brands. The reverse engine Yamahas (in the early years) and now the Suzuki’s haven’t helped them with getting talent at all IMO. They probably would’ve had more luck with just buying their own Honda’s and going racing. If Butler Bro’s KTM does switch to be the factory GasGas team, maybe JGR can pick up their void as the satellite KTM 450 team. Or Husky uses JGR to run a 450 satellite program or to run the official 250 program ala TLD KTM?

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

You do know JGR switched to Suzuki just one month after Ken Roczen wrapped up the outdoor title on the very same bike?? That Suzuki was more than capable of winning & still is with the right rider.

Yaa I know that, but something that JGR is or isn’t doing is why top riders don’t go there. You can put Roczen and Tomac on any bike and they’ll win. You put them on a JGR bike right now and they’ll win. JGR can’t sign the elite guys, they need a better bike to sign a top 5 guy IMO.

David934 wrote:

Anyone spotted GASGAS factory bike (Coldenhoff) pics?

WDSRCR wrote:

Last photos I saw of 'Hoff was on a KTM still. It's rumored he may start on a KTM and switch to the GG later from what I read.

Maybe some english friends here have pics from Hawkstone

WDSRCR wrote:

Last photos I saw of 'Hoff was on a KTM still. It's rumored he may start on a KTM and switch to the GG later from what I read.

You mean when they install the red plastic?

It's silly to pretend this is something it isn't.

David934 wrote:

Anyone spotted GASGAS factory bike (Coldenhoff) pics?

WDSRCR wrote:

Last photos I saw of 'Hoff was on a KTM still. It's rumored he may start on a KTM and switch to the GG later from what I read.

David934 wrote:

Maybe some english friends here have pics from Hawkstone

He was in full Standing Construct KTM mode.

Ivo Monticelli was the same at the last round of the Italian International Series, though his Team was listed as Team 128 - his race number.

As others have suggested, it appears they may be doing a Standing Construct Gas Gas Team launch just prior to the Matterly Basin GP. You know, the full bells and whistles thing that MotoGP Teams get up to, at times.

It would be pretty bloody strange, nay, pathetic, if KTM / KTGG couldn't organize new Bodywork, and, a few other visible things that would be different (enough) from their KTMs / KTHuskies for the GP season start .......

mxjon454 wrote:

JGR has had poor bikes IMO. Not saying what they can do to a dirt bike is poor, just saying that it was basically impossible to get any title contender with the backwards motor Yamahas, and then switching over to Suzuki when they were on a decline with a not very up to date bike. Even after Suzuki came out with their new 450 it still is behind all the other brands. The reverse engine Yamahas (in the early years) and now the Suzuki’s haven’t helped them with getting talent at all IMO. They probably would’ve had more luck with just buying their own Honda’s and going racing. If Butler Bro’s KTM does switch to be the factory GasGas team, maybe JGR can pick up their void as the satellite KTM 450 team. Or Husky uses JGR to run a 450 satellite program or to run the official 250 program ala TLD KTM?

Motofinne wrote:

Did someone force JGR to Yamaha in those early years? Did someone force JGR to Suzuki when everyone knew their situation? No.

They made those calls themselves.

mxjon454 wrote:

I know nobody forced them to those brands at those specific times, they probably went with them because of the support that they were offered. By going with these two brands though have hurt them and maybe it would’ve been better for them to go with a brand that would’ve attracted better riders that would’ve delivered better results which maybe would’ve gotten them support from said brand. It probably would’ve been better from them to go the Mile Genova route and buy Hondas, start doing good on that brand and then gain support. There’s a reason JGR is in the position they’re in, hopefully it changes so they stay in the sport. But if they want to sign a higher level guy they need to go to a different brand. The only reason they Savagty is because this was the best deal he could get with all the other teams being full.

From what I understand JGR's relationship with Toyota limits their options when it comes to working with different manufacturers on the MX side of things.

David934 wrote:

Anyone spotted GASGAS factory bike (Coldenhoff) pics?

WDSRCR wrote:

Last photos I saw of 'Hoff was on a KTM still. It's rumored he may start on a KTM and switch to the GG later from what I read.

David934 wrote:

Maybe some english friends here have pics from Hawkstone

Neither Diga or Standing Construct are currently riding the red ones yet. I dont think anyone aside from the two teams, and a photographer will see the bikes until Matterley.

WDSRCR wrote:

Last photos I saw of 'Hoff was on a KTM still. It's rumored he may start on a KTM and switch to the GG later from what I read.

David934 wrote:

Maybe some english friends here have pics from Hawkstone

Bearuno wrote:

He was in full Standing Construct KTM mode.

Ivo Monticelli was the same at the last round of the Italian International Series, though his Team was listed as Team 128 - his race number.

As others have suggested, it appears they may be doing a Standing Construct Gas Gas Team launch just prior to the Matterly Basin GP. You know, the full bells and whistles thing that MotoGP Teams get up to, at times.

It would be pretty bloody strange, nay, pathetic, if KTM / KTGG couldn't organize new Bodywork, and, a few other visible things that would be different (enough) from their KTMs / KTHuskies for the GP season start .......

There was "news" about GasGas coming out at first MXGP weekend so bike would be shown friday launch at track.
Im pretty sure they been running orange "GasGas" frame and motor packed and bike will just look new then.

mxjon454 wrote:

Yaa I know that, but something that JGR is or isn’t doing is why top riders don’t go there. You can put Roczen and Tomac on any bike and they’ll win. You put them on a JGR bike right now and they’ll win. JGR can’t sign the elite guys, they need a better bike to sign a top 5 guy IMO.

You don't make sense, you say Roczen and Tomac could win on a JGR bike right now but JGR needs a better bike to sign elite riders?????

What they need is the money to pay an elite rider. In this day and age, its all about the money and at that level riders will chase $$ vs. a certain bike.

MC did and if it were not for a few fluke off the track issues, he would have won the SX title that year on the Zook.

RC did and it worked out just fine while all the fans claimed he was going to be mired mid pack on a Suzuki.

Kenny jumped on the RC/Hart Suzuki team and also won a lot of races. You could argue he has never had as much success than he did on the Zook.

These moves were all predicated on money, not the bike. Elite riders know any factory can make a bike capable of winning.

Gas Gas Monkey

endurox wrote:

JGR to Bultaco

Zacka 161 wrote:

I would also say its a little sad for JGR.

They had such big plans to change the game and did some really interesting stuff with the early reverse engine Yamahas. They really used their Nascar connection to do interesting stuff.... Since it basically has been unsuccessful, or only as successful as a Rock River type team but with so much more money spent its just sad what it has become.


I wonder whether JGR would even want to be a cookie cutter corporate team? Or do they want to keep a certain flavour and if they cant maybe close up shop?

mxjon454 wrote:

JGR has had poor bikes IMO. Not saying what they can do to a dirt bike is poor, just saying that it was basically impossible to get any title contender with the backwards motor Yamahas, and then switching over to Suzuki when they were on a decline with a not very up to date bike. Even after Suzuki came out with their new 450 it still is behind all the other brands. The reverse engine Yamahas (in the early years) and now the Suzuki’s haven’t helped them with getting talent at all IMO. They probably would’ve had more luck with just buying their own Honda’s and going racing. If Butler Bro’s KTM does switch to be the factory GasGas team, maybe JGR can pick up their void as the satellite KTM 450 team. Or Husky uses JGR to run a 450 satellite program or to run the official 250 program ala TLD KTM?

Motofinne wrote:

Did someone force JGR to Yamaha in those early years? Did someone force JGR to Suzuki when everyone knew their situation? No.

They made those calls themselves.

I think the Toyota connection forced them to Yamaha in the beginning.