Gas gas 450 Kickstart and no mapping

spimx
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spimx
Would you buy a gas gas 450 or 250 MX version with Kickstart, no mapping, no TC, stainless valves, maybe whichever is the cheeper version of domino or brembo stuff? And the bike is somewhat cheaper than a KTM? Essentially an affordable 450 with no bullshit. Honestly I have not changed the map on my bike in at least a year. Yea,I race and sometimes I drop the bike. Honestly if I save 30 seconds with e start I don't think pro circuit will pick me up for the team. I have a few enduro friends who do not want e start since we got stranded on the side of a mountain a few times.

To me Kawasaki is coming up in the industry and the past few years I have seen some crazy good deals on KXs and people love the bike too. Kawasaki is KTMs competition on the track and in the showroom. Kawasaki is catching up to KTM due to price.

If not what should be the goal for gas gas? What other part of the market are they missing?

Gas gas 450mx Kickstart no mapping and cheap

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Dirty Points 7/13/2020 9:43am
7/13/2020 9:43am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2020 12:32pm
I don't see how adding an additional set of case castings and parts to their production process would make it cheaper, at all. And multiple maps is a nearly-free to produce feature on these ECU systems.

If they really wanted cheaper, running a generation or two behind the other models, and pipelining tooling/parts to trickle down to the Spanish or Asian factories, while bargain-shoppping the OEM bolt-on items might be a workable business model (but tricky to implement from a business and logistical standpoint). Then again, people bitch about other outdated but proven makes here.
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O&GDriller
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O&GDriller 7/13/2020 9:43am
7/13/2020 9:43am
Sort of silly poll. KTM is committed to moving forward with their brands via lots of money spent on R&D. No way in hell they're going to offer an inferior product after they've spent so much money and time making their bikes the most advanced available.
spimx
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spimx 7/13/2020 9:50am
7/13/2020 9:50am
O&GDriller wrote:
Sort of silly poll. KTM is committed to moving forward with their brands via lots of money spent on R&D. No way in hell they're going...
Sort of silly poll. KTM is committed to moving forward with their brands via lots of money spent on R&D. No way in hell they're going to offer an inferior product after they've spent so much money and time making their bikes the most advanced available.
So what should the goal be for gas gas? The majority of guys are already satisfied with either KTM or Husky. The market is open for guys who don't want to mess with a battery. Plenty of guys would rather spend money on traveling, tires and suspension?

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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 7/13/2020 9:52am
7/13/2020 9:52am
"Essentially an affordable 450 with no bullshit."

It's already on dealership floors. It's called an RMZ 450.
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spimx
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spimx 7/13/2020 9:58am
7/13/2020 9:58am
Dirty Points wrote:
I don't see how adding an additional set of case castings and parts to their production process would make it cheaper, at all. And multiple maps...
I don't see how adding an additional set of case castings and parts to their production process would make it cheaper, at all. And multiple maps is a nearly-free to produce feature on these ECU systems.

If they really wanted cheaper, running a generation or two behind the other models, and pipelining tooling/parts to trickle down to the Spanish or Asian factories, while bargain-shoppping the OEM bolt-on items might be a workable business model (but tricky to implement from a business and logistical standpoint). Then again, people bitch about other outdated but proven makes here.
Ide be fine with that. I know I'm not the only one who isn't an e start guy. Plenty of guys defending Suzuki here. I just want reliability and just grew up kicking a bike.
spimx
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spimx 7/13/2020 10:00am
7/13/2020 10:00am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
"Essentially an affordable 450 with no bullshit."

It's already on dealership floors. It's called an RMZ 450.
Exactly KTM already competes with everyone else. They might as well go after the RM army.
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Dirty Points 7/13/2020 10:01am
7/13/2020 10:01am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2020 10:03am
Dirty Points wrote:
I don't see how adding an additional set of case castings and parts to their production process would make it cheaper, at all. And multiple maps...
I don't see how adding an additional set of case castings and parts to their production process would make it cheaper, at all. And multiple maps is a nearly-free to produce feature on these ECU systems.

If they really wanted cheaper, running a generation or two behind the other models, and pipelining tooling/parts to trickle down to the Spanish or Asian factories, while bargain-shoppping the OEM bolt-on items might be a workable business model (but tricky to implement from a business and logistical standpoint). Then again, people bitch about other outdated but proven makes here.
spimx wrote:
Ide be fine with that. I know I'm not the only one who isn't an e start guy. Plenty of guys defending Suzuki here. I just...
Ide be fine with that. I know I'm not the only one who isn't an e start guy. Plenty of guys defending Suzuki here. I just want reliability and just grew up kicking a bike.
My point was that building a kickstart engine just for Gas Gas would be probably be close to a wash (or even more expensive) for for KTM at this point.
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nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 7/13/2020 10:03am
7/13/2020 10:03am
Wait till you see how bold the new graphics are on the 2021 RMZ, will make you forget all about GasGas.
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spimx
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spimx 7/13/2020 10:07am
7/13/2020 10:07am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2020 10:10am
Dirty Points wrote:
I don't see how adding an additional set of case castings and parts to their production process would make it cheaper, at all. And multiple maps...
I don't see how adding an additional set of case castings and parts to their production process would make it cheaper, at all. And multiple maps is a nearly-free to produce feature on these ECU systems.

If they really wanted cheaper, running a generation or two behind the other models, and pipelining tooling/parts to trickle down to the Spanish or Asian factories, while bargain-shoppping the OEM bolt-on items might be a workable business model (but tricky to implement from a business and logistical standpoint). Then again, people bitch about other outdated but proven makes here.
spimx wrote:
Ide be fine with that. I know I'm not the only one who isn't an e start guy. Plenty of guys defending Suzuki here. I just...
Ide be fine with that. I know I'm not the only one who isn't an e start guy. Plenty of guys defending Suzuki here. I just want reliability and just grew up kicking a bike.
Dirty Points wrote:
My point was that building a kickstart engine just for Gas Gas would be probably be close to a wash (or even more expensive) for for...
My point was that building a kickstart engine just for Gas Gas would be probably be close to a wash (or even more expensive) for for KTM at this point.
I understand that. Maybe the bike could run a year or two behind but I draw the line at made in China. I know Honda and KTM have already made some bikes in China and maybe just the profits and better but I know the price isn't better than a KLX. I think poor Chinese quality will catch up to Honda.
Dirty Points 7/13/2020 10:21am
7/13/2020 10:21am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2020 10:31am
spimx wrote:
I understand that. Maybe the bike could run a year or two behind but I draw the line at made in China. I know Honda and...
I understand that. Maybe the bike could run a year or two behind but I draw the line at made in China. I know Honda and KTM have already made some bikes in China and maybe just the profits and better but I know the price isn't better than a KLX. I think poor Chinese quality will catch up to Honda.
India plant is probably a bit closer to this capability already producing quite a few models and parts, but they may be maxed just producing small-bore street models. I think the China/CF Moto partnership is just assembly
tek14
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tek14 7/13/2020 10:25am
7/13/2020 10:25am
GasGas will come with less optional parts and with lower price than KTM/Husky.
deanwhite51
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deanwhite51 7/13/2020 3:54pm
7/13/2020 3:54pm
Gas GAS already released a statement a while back saying that the GAS GAS will be the bottom end of the range to compete with the other manufacturing prices.

HUSKY with the high end parts.
KTM in the middle with the whole "Race Ready".
GAS GAS practically a bone stock KTM with the very bare minimum bolt ons.

As for what they are released with,, More then certain they are being released with Electric start.


Drtbykr
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Drtbykr 7/13/2020 4:43pm
7/13/2020 4:43pm Edited Date/Time 7/13/2020 4:44pm
Even at the low end of the high end of price points (?), no button no sale for 4 bangers.

The future is now.
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Renner153
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Renner153 7/13/2020 5:00pm
7/13/2020 5:00pm
The gasgas will be a year or 2 behind the ktm/husky. Getting more use out of the R&D they already have keeping production cost down.
SEMAC
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SEMAC 7/13/2020 5:12pm
7/13/2020 5:12pm
I don't really see how KTM is pouring millions of dollars un r&d,and what technologycal wonder has made on their bikes,the way i ser,they hsvent changed in years,only KTM action magazine,ir Teo stroke action mag,see 1 mm offset chance,or whatever
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SEMAC
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SEMAC 7/13/2020 5:15pm
7/13/2020 5:15pm
This forum gets old,the same guys,over and over on the dame subjects,repeating what they read on shoutots ir what ever
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spimx
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spimx 7/13/2020 5:22pm
7/13/2020 5:22pm
I just want to keep my kickstarter and ride Austrian. It's kickstart gas gas or back to 2t for me. I've got enough to deal with between all my bikes my wife's car and my truck. I feel like I'm constantly fixing something. Fork seals, tires, tires chain sprockets, I don't need a battery to deal with and I'd rather be riding than dealing with more electrical problems.
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yz133rider
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yz133rider 7/13/2020 5:22pm
7/13/2020 5:22pm
SEMAC wrote:
This forum gets old,the same guys,over and over on the dame subjects,repeating what they read on shoutots ir what ever
Lol from 2012 to 2013 the ktm improved MASSIVELY and then 3 short years later in 16 took another massive jump.

In 4 years it gained massive power, lost massive weight, handled amazing, took over the classes from dead last to shootout winners/contenders in each class. But yeah sure they are the same cuz they’re still orange I suppose.
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LungButter
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LungButter 7/13/2020 5:27pm
7/13/2020 5:27pm
If Gas Gas ends up being a more affordable KTM with a few less gadgets then my family will be a Gas Gas family. New bikes are too nice and too expensive these days. It's just not necessary for most of us.

I remember when it was a BIG deal when my YZ came stock with a quick adjust perch back in the day. I'm more than happy with my '13 KTM and it seems to collect hardware for me in the VetA class damn near every time I get the itch to off road racing over guys on newer and more decked out bikes.

The market is screaming for a good bike that doesn't cost $10-12k.
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langhammx
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langhammx 7/13/2020 5:36pm
7/13/2020 5:36pm
LungButter wrote:
If Gas Gas ends up being a more affordable KTM with a few less gadgets then my family will be a Gas Gas family. New bikes...
If Gas Gas ends up being a more affordable KTM with a few less gadgets then my family will be a Gas Gas family. New bikes are too nice and too expensive these days. It's just not necessary for most of us.

I remember when it was a BIG deal when my YZ came stock with a quick adjust perch back in the day. I'm more than happy with my '13 KTM and it seems to collect hardware for me in the VetA class damn near every time I get the itch to off road racing over guys on newer and more decked out bikes.

The market is screaming for a good bike that doesn't cost $10-12k.
We are talking a few hundred dollars less, not thousands.
langhammx
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langhammx 7/13/2020 5:39pm
7/13/2020 5:39pm Edited Date/Time 7/13/2020 5:39pm
deanwhite51 wrote:
Gas GAS already released a statement a while back saying that the GAS GAS will be the bottom end of the range to compete with the...
Gas GAS already released a statement a while back saying that the GAS GAS will be the bottom end of the range to compete with the other manufacturing prices.

HUSKY with the high end parts.
KTM in the middle with the whole "Race Ready".
GAS GAS practically a bone stock KTM with the very bare minimum bolt ons.

As for what they are released with,, More then certain they are being released with Electric start.


“ HUSKY with the high end parts.”
I’m not sure what parts of the Husky are considered high end, but the Brembo brakes and clutch on the KTM are better that the Magura on the Husky, IMO
LungButter
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LungButter 7/13/2020 5:47pm
7/13/2020 5:47pm
langhammx wrote:
We are talking a few hundred dollars less, not thousands.
Don't go hurting me like that.

Maybe I should just ask for first right of refusal to buy your bikes when your done? Them some beauties!
lostboy819
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lostboy819 7/14/2020 11:58am
7/14/2020 11:58am
The only gas gas I would ever even consider would be the Gas Gas trials bike, but they are at least one up over TMs no way I would even consider buying one of those turds. Pinch
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yz133rider
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yz133rider 7/14/2020 12:06pm
7/14/2020 12:06pm
lostboy819 wrote:
The only gas gas I would ever even consider would be the Gas Gas trials bike, but they are at least one up over TMs no...
The only gas gas I would ever even consider would be the Gas Gas trials bike, but they are at least one up over TMs no way I would even consider buying one of those turds. Pinch
I’m sure you’ve ridden a nice example extensively to have formed that opinion, likely even owned one.

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