GH 2 stroke convo..all tidbits here please

rongi#401
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rongi#401 4/21/2019 7:20pm
4/21/2019 7:20pm
kiwifan wrote:
Yes mostly it is the rider, but it is still/weird strange not to see KTM and Husky not dominating in the 250's.... given their advantages than...
Yes mostly it is the rider, but it is still/weird strange not to see KTM and Husky not dominating in the 250's.... given their advantages than the much older bikes, especially the Hondas, Kawasakis and Suzukis
Sluggo77 wrote:
What are the significant technological advantages that KTM/Husky 2 strokes have over Japanese 250s?
kiwifan wrote:
As I said over the older bikes such as fuel injection, modern suspension, modern chassis, modern power valve systems, availability of parts ...unless are you implying...
As I said over the older bikes such as fuel injection, modern suspension, modern chassis, modern power valve systems, availability of parts ...unless are you implying a 2007 CR250R/RM250/KX250 will compete on par with a 2019 KTM250SX?
I’m saying yes it does, I’ve ridden both, and wasn’t impressed with the ktm
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seth505
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seth505 4/21/2019 7:24pm
4/21/2019 7:24pm
The KTM brakes better, vibrates less, has a better layout to work on, turns better but it's not suited for everyone (I don't think any bike out there is).
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wilh72
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wilh72 4/21/2019 7:31pm
4/21/2019 7:31pm
rongi#401 wrote:
I went 8-4 for 4th overall in 125 novice, made a few mistakes and lost a few spots, was third most of moto 2, haven’t raced...
I went 8-4 for 4th overall in 125 novice, made a few mistakes and lost a few spots, was third most of moto 2, haven’t raced a big race in about 12 years, and after racing 4 strokes always, and now racing all 125s, fuck four strokes!!!! It was so sick! We need more of these races. So many people showed up, it was like a mini national!!

I can’t express how fun this event is, and how cool it was to watch the pro class, shoemaker and Justin hoeft were murdering the track in their 125s, And the open pro class....dude, honestly a series like this could replace the ama nationals if you got enough top guys to show up, fuck supercross too yesterday was way too sick!
Agreed. Me and my uncle went yesterday and we both said this would be are yearly race we both go to to spectate and are skipping the nationals. Love the atmosphere there and I am even considering racing next year. We had a lot of fun.
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CivBars
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CivBars 4/21/2019 7:54pm
4/21/2019 7:54pm
kiwifan wrote:
Yes mostly it is the rider, but it is still/weird strange not to see KTM and Husky not dominating in the 250's.... given their advantages than...
Yes mostly it is the rider, but it is still/weird strange not to see KTM and Husky not dominating in the 250's.... given their advantages than the much older bikes, especially the Hondas, Kawasakis and Suzukis
Sluggo77 wrote:
What are the significant technological advantages that KTM/Husky 2 strokes have over Japanese 250s?
kiwifan wrote:
As I said over the older bikes such as fuel injection, modern suspension, modern chassis, modern power valve systems, availability of parts ...unless are you implying...
As I said over the older bikes such as fuel injection, modern suspension, modern chassis, modern power valve systems, availability of parts ...unless are you implying a 2007 CR250R/RM250/KX250 will compete on par with a 2019 KTM250SX?
Fuel injection?
Todays suspension is practically identical to 07. Especially in Yamaha's case.

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kiwifan
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kiwifan 4/21/2019 8:37pm
4/21/2019 8:37pm
Sluggo77 wrote:
What are the significant technological advantages that KTM/Husky 2 strokes have over Japanese 250s?
kiwifan wrote:
As I said over the older bikes such as fuel injection, modern suspension, modern chassis, modern power valve systems, availability of parts ...unless are you implying...
As I said over the older bikes such as fuel injection, modern suspension, modern chassis, modern power valve systems, availability of parts ...unless are you implying a 2007 CR250R/RM250/KX250 will compete on par with a 2019 KTM250SX?
CivBars wrote:
Fuel injection?
Todays suspension is practically identical to 07. Especially in Yamaha's case.
Fuel Injection/PI/TPI/DI/whatever you want to call it...

Suspension wise, we are not talking about Yamaha here in my post, I can guarantee you that the KTM suspension is way ahead of the 2007 stuff for Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki
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SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 4/21/2019 8:47pm
4/21/2019 8:47pm
kiwifan wrote:
As I said over the older bikes such as fuel injection, modern suspension, modern chassis, modern power valve systems, availability of parts ...unless are you implying...
As I said over the older bikes such as fuel injection, modern suspension, modern chassis, modern power valve systems, availability of parts ...unless are you implying a 2007 CR250R/RM250/KX250 will compete on par with a 2019 KTM250SX?
CivBars wrote:
Fuel injection?
Todays suspension is practically identical to 07. Especially in Yamaha's case.
kiwifan wrote:
Fuel Injection/PI/TPI/DI/whatever you want to call it... Suspension wise, we are not talking about Yamaha here in my post, I can guarantee you that the KTM...
Fuel Injection/PI/TPI/DI/whatever you want to call it...

Suspension wise, we are not talking about Yamaha here in my post, I can guarantee you that the KTM suspension is way ahead of the 2007 stuff for Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki
It's definitely not "way ahead". Suspension tech hasn't moved much since the 90s...

A properly setup/valved Honda/Kawi/Zook is still competitive.
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cmotodad
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cmotodad 4/21/2019 8:52pm
4/21/2019 8:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2019 8:54pm
I beg to differ on the suspension. KTM-Husky sells the priciest bike with the worst suspension. You can, says WP, buy our better stuff at a cost. Sorry but my opinion is the WP KTM-Husky suspension sucks and is difficult to set up and not as good at it's best.
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crc245
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crc245 4/21/2019 8:55pm
4/21/2019 8:55pm
CivBars wrote:
Fuel injection?
Todays suspension is practically identical to 07. Especially in Yamaha's case.
kiwifan wrote:
Fuel Injection/PI/TPI/DI/whatever you want to call it... Suspension wise, we are not talking about Yamaha here in my post, I can guarantee you that the KTM...
Fuel Injection/PI/TPI/DI/whatever you want to call it...

Suspension wise, we are not talking about Yamaha here in my post, I can guarantee you that the KTM suspension is way ahead of the 2007 stuff for Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki
SoCalMX70 wrote:
It's definitely not "way ahead". Suspension tech hasn't moved much since the 90s...

A properly setup/valved Honda/Kawi/Zook is still competitive.
I'd argue the opposite, kiwifan: The 47mm Showa's found on the last generation Honda's and Suzuki's can be made to work significantly better than any modern AER design...Handling-wise they're also quite competitive, as evidenced by this weekend's 2T races.
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CivBars
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CivBars 4/21/2019 9:02pm
4/21/2019 9:02pm
kiwifan wrote:
As I said over the older bikes such as fuel injection, modern suspension, modern chassis, modern power valve systems, availability of parts ...unless are you implying...
As I said over the older bikes such as fuel injection, modern suspension, modern chassis, modern power valve systems, availability of parts ...unless are you implying a 2007 CR250R/RM250/KX250 will compete on par with a 2019 KTM250SX?
CivBars wrote:
Fuel injection?
Todays suspension is practically identical to 07. Especially in Yamaha's case.
kiwifan wrote:
Fuel Injection/PI/TPI/DI/whatever you want to call it... Suspension wise, we are not talking about Yamaha here in my post, I can guarantee you that the KTM...
Fuel Injection/PI/TPI/DI/whatever you want to call it...

Suspension wise, we are not talking about Yamaha here in my post, I can guarantee you that the KTM suspension is way ahead of the 2007 stuff for Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki
What KTM motocross bike has that FI/ PI/ TPI/ DI?

Two stroke KTM WP suspension is on par with 2007 Two stroke Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki suspension. At best.
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CivBars
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CivBars 4/21/2019 9:10pm
4/21/2019 9:10pm
Although KTM has that counter balanced shaft to help reduce vibration. Is a hydro clutch and a different power valve really making this brand head and shoulders above the rest? I prefer a cable clutch and off road is where that power valve will shine most.
fullfloater
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fullfloater 4/21/2019 11:12pm
4/21/2019 11:12pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2019 11:20pm
This race is on my bucket list. Would probably go for for a YZ250 since that's the last 2-stroke I owned and I loved it. See you in a couple of years in the old man's class. Would be nice if Yamaha would at least put the YZ65-style plastics on the 125/250. There are obviously buyers out there. Imagine that, wanting the "proper" bikes to look as good as the 65.

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kiwifan
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kiwifan 4/22/2019 12:35am
4/22/2019 12:35am
CivBars wrote:
Fuel injection?
Todays suspension is practically identical to 07. Especially in Yamaha's case.
kiwifan wrote:
Fuel Injection/PI/TPI/DI/whatever you want to call it... Suspension wise, we are not talking about Yamaha here in my post, I can guarantee you that the KTM...
Fuel Injection/PI/TPI/DI/whatever you want to call it...

Suspension wise, we are not talking about Yamaha here in my post, I can guarantee you that the KTM suspension is way ahead of the 2007 stuff for Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki
CivBars wrote:
What KTM motocross bike has that FI/ PI/ TPI/ DI?

Two stroke KTM WP suspension is on par with 2007 Two stroke Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki suspension. At best.
ok so the SX doesnt have TPI...yet...my humble apologies, I have spanked myself just so you feel a lot better
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Nick_Lalanne
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Nick_Lalanne 4/22/2019 6:18am
4/22/2019 6:18am
crowe176 wrote:
Did anyone win/run that dudes big bore kit that was paying a bonus to the winner?
8686 wrote:
I did just read that Wageman’s YZ was “punched out”. Was it an ESR Kit???
ML512 wrote:
I was told it was an Athena Kit. I asked if anyone saw that ESR guy and no one found him. Alessi tried to contact him...
I was told it was an Athena Kit. I asked if anyone saw that ESR guy and no one found him. Alessi tried to contact him after he put up that big bonuses if you raced one of his bikes and he said he wouldn’t answer their calls/never called back.
Gardner was on the ESR bike, and the kits where there and available. Maybe you should ask Carlen what he thought?
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GoggleFiend904 4/22/2019 6:22am
4/22/2019 6:22am
8686 wrote:
I did just read that Wageman’s YZ was “punched out”. Was it an ESR Kit???
ML512 wrote:
I was told it was an Athena Kit. I asked if anyone saw that ESR guy and no one found him. Alessi tried to contact him...
I was told it was an Athena Kit. I asked if anyone saw that ESR guy and no one found him. Alessi tried to contact him after he put up that big bonuses if you raced one of his bikes and he said he wouldn’t answer their calls/never called back.
Nick_Lalanne wrote:
Gardner was on the ESR bike, and the kits where there and available. Maybe you should ask Carlen what he thought?
Did he end up with a 15k paycheck? If so then that's legit
ML512
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ML512 4/22/2019 6:54am
4/22/2019 6:54am
8686 wrote:
I did just read that Wageman’s YZ was “punched out”. Was it an ESR Kit???
ML512 wrote:
I was told it was an Athena Kit. I asked if anyone saw that ESR guy and no one found him. Alessi tried to contact him...
I was told it was an Athena Kit. I asked if anyone saw that ESR guy and no one found him. Alessi tried to contact him after he put up that big bonuses if you raced one of his bikes and he said he wouldn’t answer their calls/never called back.
Nick_Lalanne wrote:
Gardner was on the ESR bike, and the kits where there and available. Maybe you should ask Carlen what he thought?
Didn’t see any logos on Gardner’s bike and had no clue where he parked or was setup. Considering the guy seemed to be trying to make a splash, there could’ve been a bit more effort on their behalf. I walked around and practically asked every industry person I saw if they knew if ESR was there. Most just said “who?”

I’m really interested in doing a test on his product with a project bike, so hopefully I can line that up in the future.

I double checked last night, Wageman’s bike was a 300 Athena Kit.



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Nick_Lalanne
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Nick_Lalanne 4/22/2019 7:05am
4/22/2019 7:05am
ML512 wrote:
I was told it was an Athena Kit. I asked if anyone saw that ESR guy and no one found him. Alessi tried to contact him...
I was told it was an Athena Kit. I asked if anyone saw that ESR guy and no one found him. Alessi tried to contact him after he put up that big bonuses if you raced one of his bikes and he said he wouldn’t answer their calls/never called back.
Nick_Lalanne wrote:
Gardner was on the ESR bike, and the kits where there and available. Maybe you should ask Carlen what he thought?
ML512 wrote:
Didn’t see any logos on Gardner’s bike and had no clue where he parked or was setup. Considering the guy seemed to be trying to make...
Didn’t see any logos on Gardner’s bike and had no clue where he parked or was setup. Considering the guy seemed to be trying to make a splash, there could’ve been a bit more effort on their behalf. I walked around and practically asked every industry person I saw if they knew if ESR was there. Most just said “who?”

I’m really interested in doing a test on his product with a project bike, so hopefully I can line that up in the future.

I double checked last night, Wageman’s bike was a 300 Athena Kit.



I can make that happen I’m good friends with Eddie

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ML512
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ML512 4/22/2019 7:13am
4/22/2019 7:13am
Nick_Lalanne wrote:
I can make that happen I’m good friends with Eddie
Gardner’s bike looked insanely easy to ride and smooth. Cool
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500guy
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500guy 4/22/2019 7:23am
4/22/2019 7:23am
Tell me about these two guy's are they local Pro's , Amateurs up and coming been around for awhile etc.?
ML512
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ML512 4/22/2019 7:26am
4/22/2019 7:26am
500guy wrote:
Tell me about these two guy's are they local Pro's , Amateurs up and coming been around for awhile etc.?
Both have raced Supercross this year, I think Gardner is in his third year.

Carlen has made a few 450 mains this year and Robbie has made most of the 250 mains.
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ML512
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ML512 4/22/2019 7:30am
4/22/2019 7:30am
500guy wrote:
Tell me about these two guy's are they local Pro's , Amateurs up and coming been around for awhile etc.?
Gardner's 16-18 results...I believe he's made something like 6-8 450 mains in 2019.


Robbie raced made two 250 mains last year and I believe has made six this year, including the first 250 East/West Shootout and his highest finish has been 11th and two 13ths.
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Meister
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Meister 4/22/2019 7:44am
4/22/2019 7:44am
My God. I wish this was the sound you heard every time the fast guys were on the track.
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Nick_Lalanne
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Nick_Lalanne 4/22/2019 8:24am
4/22/2019 8:24am
ML512 wrote:
Gardner’s bike looked insanely easy to ride and smooth. Cool
The low end power of the setup he was running makes the bike very 4 stroke like.

Whats the best way to get in contact with you to try to setup some testing?
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aFACEdismembered 4/22/2019 8:34am
4/22/2019 8:34am
CivBars wrote:
Although KTM has that counter balanced shaft to help reduce vibration. Is a hydro clutch and a different power valve really making this brand head and...
Although KTM has that counter balanced shaft to help reduce vibration. Is a hydro clutch and a different power valve really making this brand head and shoulders above the rest? I prefer a cable clutch and off road is where that power valve will shine most.
Huge HP advantage in stock trim (which should correlate to mods done to new vs old bikes also) on a track notorious for its huge hills. I think everything else is rider preference. And, of course, more HP doesn't mean better lap times if the rider can't utilize the extra power.

CivBars
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CivBars 4/22/2019 9:23am
4/22/2019 9:23am
kiwifan wrote:
Fuel Injection/PI/TPI/DI/whatever you want to call it... Suspension wise, we are not talking about Yamaha here in my post, I can guarantee you that the KTM...
Fuel Injection/PI/TPI/DI/whatever you want to call it...

Suspension wise, we are not talking about Yamaha here in my post, I can guarantee you that the KTM suspension is way ahead of the 2007 stuff for Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki
CivBars wrote:
What KTM motocross bike has that FI/ PI/ TPI/ DI?

Two stroke KTM WP suspension is on par with 2007 Two stroke Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki suspension. At best.
kiwifan wrote:
ok so the SX doesnt have TPI...yet...my humble apologies, I have spanked myself just so you feel a lot better
Thatta boy
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NJKawi913 4/22/2019 9:36am
4/22/2019 9:36am
Kyle_McNab wrote:
Coty schock deserves some recognition, hell of a rider. Same class as cooper and hartraft in the amateurs, he could be on their level with the...
Coty schock deserves some recognition, hell of a rider. Same class as cooper and hartraft in the amateurs, he could be on their level with the right support
couldn't agree with you more. I believe he'll be trying to qualify to Nj supercross this weekend. I would be awesome to see him out there for the heats.
EnvyMedia 4/22/2019 10:02am
4/22/2019 10:02am
So most front runners were on a 300 kit? I've heard from EMX riders that a 250 was actually better to race MX with than a 300. Pretty interesting.
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CivBars
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CivBars 4/22/2019 11:23am
4/22/2019 11:23am
What's the best placing 250 two stroke at a sx/mx recently? KTM? Chris Alldredge? It's a shame he crashed. He had a great attitude!
seth505
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seth505 4/22/2019 11:26am
4/22/2019 11:26am
EnvyMedia wrote:
So most front runners were on a 300 kit? I've heard from EMX riders that a 250 was actually better to race MX with than a...
So most front runners were on a 300 kit? I've heard from EMX riders that a 250 was actually better to race MX with than a 300. Pretty interesting.
I was wondering the same thing but Glen Helen is pretty unique. The 300 should work well if it's pushing extra torque down low/mid for those wacky hills.
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