Future Rule Change for Rejoining the Track

TXDirt wrote:

I like that you can make a huge mistake and go off the track and re-enter race as if it never happened. Not losing so much...

I like that you can make a huge mistake and go off the track and re-enter race as if it never happened. Not losing so much as a second of time.

uneasy_rider wrote:

You honestly think that there should be a penalty for making a mistake, like running off a track? I guarantee you would change your tune if...

You honestly think that there should be a penalty for making a mistake, like running off a track? I guarantee you would change your tune if you were in that position. You would be screaming how obsurd it is to penalize someone for something out of their control, as you should. I honestly think that some people`s moral compass is broke on here!

TXDirt wrote:

I like that you can make a huge mistake and go off the track and re-enter race as if it never happened. Not losing so much...

I like that you can make a huge mistake and go off the track and re-enter race as if it never happened. Not losing so much as a second of time.

uneasy_rider wrote:

You honestly think that there should be a penalty for making a mistake, like running off a track? I guarantee you would change your tune if...

You honestly think that there should be a penalty for making a mistake, like running off a track? I guarantee you would change your tune if you were in that position. You would be screaming how obsurd it is to penalize someone for something out of their control, as you should. I honestly think that some people`s moral compass is broke on here!

TXDirt wrote:

I like that you can make a huge mistake and go off the track and re-enter race as if it never happened. Not losing so much...

I like that you can make a huge mistake and go off the track and re-enter race as if it never happened. Not losing so much as a second of time.

uneasy_rider wrote:

You honestly think that there should be a penalty for making a mistake, like running off a track? I guarantee you would change your tune if...

You honestly think that there should be a penalty for making a mistake, like running off a track? I guarantee you would change your tune if you were in that position. You would be screaming how obsurd it is to penalize someone for something out of their control, as you should. I honestly think that some people`s moral compass is broke on here!

MPJC wrote:

If someone make a mistake, that does not mean it was out of their control. Going off the track due to carrying too much speed into...

If someone make a mistake, that does not mean it was out of their control. Going off the track due to carrying too much speed into a corner is a mistake within one's control. What this shows is that "intentional" and "within one's control" do not mean the same thing. I think that what you are saying is that we don't want to see riders unduly penalized for unintentional mistakes (which is kind of redundant, since we don't intend to make mistakes - we intend actions that can sometimes turn out to be mistakes) if the foul is minor and the response is appropriate (e.g. letting the other rider reestablish the gap). Some minor fouls are mistakes that are fairly normal racing incidents and micro-policing of each of them would detract from the racing in various ways (e.g. nobody would ever know who won until all possible fouls were scrutinized).

uneasy_rider wrote:

You honestly think that there should be a penalty for making a mistake, like running off a track? I guarantee you would change your tune if...

You honestly think that there should be a penalty for making a mistake, like running off a track? I guarantee you would change your tune if you were in that position. You would be screaming how obsurd it is to penalize someone for something out of their control, as you should. I honestly think that some people`s moral compass is broke on here!

MPJC wrote:

If someone make a mistake, that does not mean it was out of their control. Going off the track due to carrying too much speed into...

If someone make a mistake, that does not mean it was out of their control. Going off the track due to carrying too much speed into a corner is a mistake within one's control. What this shows is that "intentional" and "within one's control" do not mean the same thing. I think that what you are saying is that we don't want to see riders unduly penalized for unintentional mistakes (which is kind of redundant, since we don't intend to make mistakes - we intend actions that can sometimes turn out to be mistakes) if the foul is minor and the response is appropriate (e.g. letting the other rider reestablish the gap). Some minor fouls are mistakes that are fairly normal racing incidents and micro-policing of each of them would detract from the racing in various ways (e.g. nobody would ever know who won until all possible fouls were scrutinized).

uneasy_rider wrote:

So youre saying his mistake was intentional? There is no chance that you have ever raced, or competed in any sport with that philosophy. Yes, he...

So youre saying his mistake was intentional? There is no chance that you have ever raced, or competed in any sport with that philosophy. Yes, he was carrying alot of speed, did you notice that he was competing in a race? You go fast, sometimes that can lead to mistakes. More often then not mistakes can lead to series, career, or god forbid life ending injuries. But you say he overjumped by being out of control, yet chaStize him for showing control by reentering the race at a safe spot? WTF?

MPJC wrote:

If someone make a mistake, that does not mean it was out of their control. Going off the track due to carrying too much speed into...

If someone make a mistake, that does not mean it was out of their control. Going off the track due to carrying too much speed into a corner is a mistake within one's control. What this shows is that "intentional" and "within one's control" do not mean the same thing. I think that what you are saying is that we don't want to see riders unduly penalized for unintentional mistakes (which is kind of redundant, since we don't intend to make mistakes - we intend actions that can sometimes turn out to be mistakes) if the foul is minor and the response is appropriate (e.g. letting the other rider reestablish the gap). Some minor fouls are mistakes that are fairly normal racing incidents and micro-policing of each of them would detract from the racing in various ways (e.g. nobody would ever know who won until all possible fouls were scrutinized).

uneasy_rider wrote:

So youre saying his mistake was intentional? There is no chance that you have ever raced, or competed in any sport with that philosophy. Yes, he...

So youre saying his mistake was intentional? There is no chance that you have ever raced, or competed in any sport with that philosophy. Yes, he was carrying alot of speed, did you notice that he was competing in a race? You go fast, sometimes that can lead to mistakes. More often then not mistakes can lead to series, career, or god forbid life ending injuries. But you say he overjumped by being out of control, yet chaStize him for showing control by reentering the race at a safe spot? WTF?

MPJC wrote:

That's exactly what I wasn't saying. I actually said that no mistake is intentional (as indicated by my comment that "unintentional mistake" is redundant). I also...

That's exactly what I wasn't saying. I actually said that no mistake is intentional (as indicated by my comment that "unintentional mistake" is redundant). I also drew a distinction between "intentional" and "under one's control". You can have a situation where everything is under your control (e.g. how fast you were going) and it leads to unintended consequences (e.g. going off the track). This is in contrast to a situation that is neither intentional nor under one's control (e.g. mechanical failure).

uneasy_rider wrote:

So youre saying his mistake was intentional? There is no chance that you have ever raced, or competed in any sport with that philosophy. Yes, he...

So youre saying his mistake was intentional? There is no chance that you have ever raced, or competed in any sport with that philosophy. Yes, he was carrying alot of speed, did you notice that he was competing in a race? You go fast, sometimes that can lead to mistakes. More often then not mistakes can lead to series, career, or god forbid life ending injuries. But you say he overjumped by being out of control, yet chaStize him for showing control by reentering the race at a safe spot? WTF?

MPJC wrote:

That's exactly what I wasn't saying. I actually said that no mistake is intentional (as indicated by my comment that "unintentional mistake" is redundant). I also...

That's exactly what I wasn't saying. I actually said that no mistake is intentional (as indicated by my comment that "unintentional mistake" is redundant). I also drew a distinction between "intentional" and "under one's control". You can have a situation where everything is under your control (e.g. how fast you were going) and it leads to unintended consequences (e.g. going off the track). This is in contrast to a situation that is neither intentional nor under one's control (e.g. mechanical failure).

uneasy_rider wrote:

OK, we have a common ground, but where do you draw the line between an unintentional accident that gets penalized and one that doesnt? I think...

OK, we have a common ground, but where do you draw the line between an unintentional accident that gets penalized and one that doesnt? I think it is ridiculous that his instance has caused this much uproar as AC was behind JC when he left the track, was behind him when he got back on the track AND slowed down to allow JC to gain some ground on him after he was on the track, yet still beat him cause JC crashed. I don`t get the outrage. AC beat him largely because he crashed, but very possibly would have beat him anyways. Regardless JC took himself out. The off track excursion had no affect on the outcome of the race.

psychotronBR wrote:

I can kind of see where you guys are comming from, on the fact that Adam made a mistake, but untimately didn't pay a high enough...

I can kind of see where you guys are comming from, on the fact that Adam made a mistake, but untimately didn't pay a high enough price for it since que lost no time to Cooper once he re-entered, but jesus christ, some of you seem hellbent on burning him on a spike like a fucking witch for it.

Given the situation and how fast he was going, he made a reasonable (and arguably safer) call. Now quit your bitching.

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Just make the banners out of armco and add a couple of feet of height to them, and no one will leave the track.

Ranman68 wrote:

As long as track edges are lined with tough blocks end to end (supercross), or with that banner/fence-like stuff (motocross), the current rule is the only...

As long as track edges are lined with tough blocks end to end (supercross), or with that banner/fence-like stuff (motocross), the current rule is the only rule that can always be followed safely. Riders cant be crashing trying to wheelie back over a tough block or get banner/fence material tangled up in their bikes that is strong enough to disable a wheel, simply to re-enter at the same place they went off the track.. A rule change of any kind on this issue would either be ultra dangerous and disasterous, or very unfair to riders for an honest racing mistake/incident unless they do something a lot different with the fencing/banner/tough blocks. I don't think it's a big enough problem to justify all that.

Ranman68 wrote:

AC raced balls out for 35 minutes. ONE TIME during that, he landed off track by a few inches. Afterwards, he used his head, re- entered...

AC raced balls out for 35 minutes. ONE TIME during that, he landed off track by a few inches. Afterwards, he used his head, re- entered safely, and voluntarily did the right thing letting Cooper get his gap back before getting on the gas.
If I'm reading your post right, you're saying that accidentally landing 4-5 inches to the side of the track was a "huge" mistake? Seriously? It also sounds like your suggesting AC intentionally accidentally made this huge mistake simply because he didn't like a rutty section. But obviously it was just on one lap, and unless the rule is changed, this ludicrous thing you suggest could become an every lap occurrence by AC. Is this what you're saying?
When have you ever seen any rider accidentally run off the track twice in the same spot in the same moto? Or intentionally accidentally run off the track twice in the same spot in the same moto? What is your basis for implying that AC would ever do that on purpose just once, let alone every lap? I can't wrap my head around your comment. Is it satire?

OT wrote:

Don't think you understand my sarcasm.. I'm not impying he does it every lap nor impying he would :-) just having a joke and said if...

Don't think you understand my sarcasm.. I'm not impying he does it every lap nor impying he would :-) just having a joke and said if I (ME) was AC. I don't have time to read your whole reply but have a nice day brother

MPJC wrote:

Strangely, you don't seem to understand what you were actually doing in your post. What you have done is present an argument that states an undesirable...

Strangely, you don't seem to understand what you were actually doing in your post. What you have done is present an argument that states an undesirable hypothetical that would be allowed under the current rule as a reason to change the rule ("Under the current rule riders could do this undesirable thing, therefore the rule is flawed"). The undesirable thing, of course, is cutting the track whenever there's a section they don't like. But this supposes that the officials are complete imbeciles incapable of exercising any semblance of reasonable discretion. If that's not plausible, then neither is your argument. On my view, if we let the officials do their job, there isn't a problem.

TXDirt wrote:

I like that you can make a huge mistake and go off the track and re-enter race as if it never happened. Not losing so much...

I like that you can make a huge mistake and go off the track and re-enter race as if it never happened. Not losing so much as a second of time.

uneasy_rider wrote:

You honestly think that there should be a penalty for making a mistake, like running off a track? I guarantee you would change your tune if...

You honestly think that there should be a penalty for making a mistake, like running off a track? I guarantee you would change your tune if you were in that position. You would be screaming how obsurd it is to penalize someone for something out of their control, as you should. I honestly think that some people`s moral compass is broke on here!

TXDirt wrote:

Mistakes come with a negative cost/impact. Hence why they are called mistakes. It does not matter if it was intentional or not. Mistake usually means unintentional...

Mistakes come with a negative cost/impact. Hence why they are called mistakes. It does not matter if it was intentional or not. Mistake usually means unintentional though doesn't it? Or do you intentionally make mistakes? That would be called something else then. In the past, it was widely ruled and accepted that you re-enter where you went off. So this created it's own penalty of sorts usually a few seconds.

Now, because it is accepted that it's too dangerous to re-enter where you went off, now you can re-enter at "safest place". Wherever that is and whatever that means. So there is no loss of time for your mistake. You can just re-enter right behind the guy you were racing with.

Going off the track is a fairly big mistake and use to cost you time as you had to re-enter where you went off. Now you can make this mistake, race around to the next "safest place" and re-enter (usually at full speed) and your mistake, didn't cost you anything.

Go watch back a few years when JMart made a mistake on the track at Millville, which caused him to go off the track part way up the hill. Rather then re-enter where he went off, he completely cut off the uphill section. He cut across the track and entered right behind the same guy he was racing with. Not missing so much as a second of time for his obvious mistake. He just cut the track as if it never happened. Had he re-entered where he went off and completed the course section he would have lost probably 5-10 seconds of time. This would have been fair because it was HIS mistake that caused HIM to go off the track. Since he cut the track instead of re-entering where he went off he didn't lose so much as a bike length.

https://youtu.be/wo2bhzazGow

TXDirt wrote:

I like that you can make a huge mistake and go off the track and re-enter race as if it never happened. Not losing so much...

I like that you can make a huge mistake and go off the track and re-enter race as if it never happened. Not losing so much as a second of time.

uneasy_rider wrote:

You honestly think that there should be a penalty for making a mistake, like running off a track? I guarantee you would change your tune if...

You honestly think that there should be a penalty for making a mistake, like running off a track? I guarantee you would change your tune if you were in that position. You would be screaming how obsurd it is to penalize someone for something out of their control, as you should. I honestly think that some people`s moral compass is broke on here!

TXDirt wrote:

Mistakes come with a negative cost/impact. Hence why they are called mistakes. It does not matter if it was intentional or not. Mistake usually means unintentional...

Mistakes come with a negative cost/impact. Hence why they are called mistakes. It does not matter if it was intentional or not. Mistake usually means unintentional though doesn't it? Or do you intentionally make mistakes? That would be called something else then. In the past, it was widely ruled and accepted that you re-enter where you went off. So this created it's own penalty of sorts usually a few seconds.

Now, because it is accepted that it's too dangerous to re-enter where you went off, now you can re-enter at "safest place". Wherever that is and whatever that means. So there is no loss of time for your mistake. You can just re-enter right behind the guy you were racing with.

Going off the track is a fairly big mistake and use to cost you time as you had to re-enter where you went off. Now you can make this mistake, race around to the next "safest place" and re-enter (usually at full speed) and your mistake, didn't cost you anything.

Go watch back a few years when JMart made a mistake on the track at Millville, which caused him to go off the track part way up the hill. Rather then re-enter where he went off, he completely cut off the uphill section. He cut across the track and entered right behind the same guy he was racing with. Not missing so much as a second of time for his obvious mistake. He just cut the track as if it never happened. Had he re-entered where he went off and completed the course section he would have lost probably 5-10 seconds of time. This would have been fair because it was HIS mistake that caused HIM to go off the track. Since he cut the track instead of re-entering where he went off he didn't lose so much as a bike length.

https://youtu.be/wo2bhzazGow