Frame repair help

That frame appears to be fubar, sorry for your friend. Maybe Honda will help him out but I don't have experience with these kinds of claims

^ X2 Not much you can do there. That sucks.

Better then his head, that had to have been a hell of a hit.

imoto34 wrote:

Better then his head, that had to have been a hell of a hit.

That's the sad thing, it wasn't really high speed. It just caught the tree at a crappy angle. We didn't even know there was frame damage until he removed his acerbis skid plate. Not so much as a scuff on it which is weird.

You could find someone to repair it sure, but it's been compromised and would not be safe to ride on again most likely. I'm not a welding expert so others here can chime in. Looks like pretty extensive frame damage.

You could have a fab shop cut out that section and replace it with a replica section via welding. The guys who do 2 stroke AF conversions do it all the time.

Personally id just replace the frame. Idk if i could sell the bike with that kind of work done to it.

Hate to say it but i think that needs replacement. Looks like he can get one from Partzilla for about $1200.

If he's a slower trail/play rider, I'd start saving for a new/used/ebay frame and keep riding it and keep an eye on it.

That sucker is cracked pretty good. I will say though , if you guys are only doing single track , and not planning on doing moto with it.....it might be able to get salvaged with an overlay tube , welded on by someone who knows what they are doing. Since I only ride moto myself , I'd be dropping the $1200.00 on a new frame. No way I would take a chance on it , by getting it repaired.

I can honestly say that is the first time I've seen something like this. I've seen small dings and dents, but never seen a frame bend like that!

That's a bummer for your buddy. I'd rather be safe than sorry and just replace the frame. Scrap the old one or sell it to someone looking to do an AF conversion. They will have to cut that section out anyways.

Suggest a carbon fiber skid plate with new frame

Very unlucky. No way I would even think about trying to repair that. $1k is a hefty sum for a replacement part, but it's just not worth taking the risk on IMO. A trip to the hospital will quickly cost you that in your deductible.

If it makes your friend feel any better, I once wrote off a BMW M3 that because of my age at the time, I was only covered by Third Party Fire and Theft Insurance - it's a type of insurance you get in England where if you bump the car, it's on you but everything else is covered. I smashed it up bad and tweaked the chassis. By the time I had sold all the salvageable bits, I was 14k (in GBP) out of pocket. It still makes me sick thinking about the wasted money, but I console myself by remembering that it was just a piece of metal which can be easily replaced. Human life can't.

You 100% need a new frame. I'm sure you could find someone who says they could repair it but it would never be safe to ride again. I would also pull the engine and take a good look at the cases. Ebay is your friend.

I would contact the guys at Service Honda. Hell they put new lower frame tubes on their 500AF frames all the time.

Just find a used 14-17 CRF250 frame off ebay. Should be around $600

Needs a little clean up. Offer him $600

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15-Honda-CRF250R-Main-Frame-BOS/162914520133?fits=Year%3A2014%7CModel%3ACRF250R&hash=item25ee764c45:g:A7sAAOSw6Bhaj0mT&vxp=mtr

The problem with repairing that is that aluminum is very difficult to re-weld without compromising the structural integrity.
The alloy used in that section of the frame is most likely a 6061 alloy with a T6 hardness, or something very similar. A T6 hardness in 6061 has a 35,000 psi yield. Now if somehow you could find a replacement tube and find a shop to weld it in, the area of the welds would be reduced to basically a T0 hardness which has a Yield of 8000 psi. So in the concentrated area of the weld the integrity of the aluminum is drastically reduced and would very likely create a problem area down the road........

Hope that all made some sort of sense...

Blade Flanagan jr. wrote:

You 100% need a new frame. I'm sure you could find someone who says they could repair it but it would never be safe to ride again. I would also pull the engine and take a good look at the cases. Ebay is your friend.

Nice Avatar!....I mean, that frame is cooked, better watch for a rolling chassis or frame and replace.

OP's user name checks out.

Blade Flanagan jr. wrote:

You 100% need a new frame. I'm sure you could find someone who says they could repair it but it would never be safe to ride again. I would also pull the engine and take a good look at the cases. Ebay is your friend.

Forty wrote:

Nice Avatar!....I mean, that frame is cooked, better watch for a rolling chassis or frame and replace.

Thanks! That pic is from Washougal 04. She walked out of the pits with a blanket and I said to myself - shes going to have to bend over to put the blanket down. Just then this guy walks into the frame with these cheese burgers, I was pissed at first but it made it kind of funnier. In the full pic you can see the look on his face like his eyeballs were going to pop out!

rbm33 wrote:

The problem with repairing that is that aluminum is very difficult to re-weld without compromising the structural integrity.
The alloy used in that section of the frame is most likely a 6061 alloy with a T6 hardness, or something very similar. A T6 hardness in 6061 has a 35,000 psi yield. Now if somehow you could find a replacement tube and find a shop to weld it in, the area of the welds would be reduced to basically a T0 hardness which has a Yield of 8000 psi. So in the concentrated area of the weld the integrity of the aluminum is drastically reduced and would very likely create a problem area down the road........

Hope that all made some sort of sense...

I think so. For dumb guy terms welding in a new section would be weaker than original and could fail in the future?

Got it.

It's still crazy to me how low speed and minimal the crash seemed. I was behind him and I heard the smack but thought it was the plastic skid plate cracking. Would have never in my wildest dreams thought the frame cradle would look like this. Crap happens I guess. His best bet it seems is to buy a new one and chalk it up to damn that sucks.

Cheaper than a broken femur! Pennies on the dollar if he looks at it like that!

feelit2morrow wrote:

I think so. For dumb guy terms welding in a new section would be weaker than original and could fail in the future?

Got it.

It's still crazy to me how low speed and minimal the crash seemed. I was behind him and I heard the smack but thought it was the plastic skid plate cracking. Would have never in my wildest dreams thought the frame cradle would look like this. Crap happens I guess. His best bet it seems is to buy a new one and chalk it up to damn that sucks.

Not only would the repaired section be weaker at the welds, but the frame tubing Honda uses isn't easy to get....it's a particular extrusion profile....the difference is on the internal profile. Can't tell it's special unless you cut it. I know a shop that does AF conversions that can get it, but as they're on Vital, I'm guessing they're not looking to do it, since they haven't posted

get a full coverage skid plate so it hides the damage !

rbm33 wrote:

The problem with repairing that is that aluminum is very difficult to re-weld without compromising the structural integrity.
The alloy used in that section of the frame is most likely a 6061 alloy with a T6 hardness, or something very similar. A T6 hardness in 6061 has a 35,000 psi yield. Now if somehow you could find a replacement tube and find a shop to weld it in, the area of the welds would be reduced to basically a T0 hardness which has a Yield of 8000 psi. So in the concentrated area of the weld the integrity of the aluminum is drastically reduced and would very likely create a problem area down the road........

Hope that all made some sort of sense...

feelit2morrow wrote:

I think so. For dumb guy terms welding in a new section would be weaker than original and could fail in the future?

Got it.

It's still crazy to me how low speed and minimal the crash seemed. I was behind him and I heard the smack but thought it was the plastic skid plate cracking. Would have never in my wildest dreams thought the frame cradle would look like this. Crap happens I guess. His best bet it seems is to buy a new one and chalk it up to damn that sucks.

If the aluminum gets that weak from welding then that would hold true for every single weld on the frame from the factory. 6061 is extruded at whatever hardness and then welded. The frames arent hardened after welding. All welds are weaker than the original material. It that wasnt the case then these AF conversions wouldnt be existing.

Buy another frame. You're spending money ether way, the difference is the resale. I would buy a bike with a replacement frame, wouldn't touch a bike with a frame repair to that extent.

New frame needed 100% by reasons given before me. Also, do people really use plastic/carbon skid plates on aluminium frames while riding offroad???? Aluminium skid is the only way to go. Make sure it covers the entire bottom of frame/cradle. Save the glide plates for moto imo.

Radfonz wrote:

get a full coverage skid plate so it hides the damage !

Yeah, that will stop the frame from blowing apart on a hard landing! LOL

rbm33 wrote:

The problem with repairing that is that aluminum is very difficult to re-weld without compromising the structural integrity.
The alloy used in that section of the frame is most likely a 6061 alloy with a T6 hardness, or something very similar. A T6 hardness in 6061 has a 35,000 psi yield. Now if somehow you could find a replacement tube and find a shop to weld it in, the area of the welds would be reduced to basically a T0 hardness which has a Yield of 8000 psi. So in the concentrated area of the weld the integrity of the aluminum is drastically reduced and would very likely create a problem area down the road........

Hope that all made some sort of sense...

feelit2morrow wrote:

I think so. For dumb guy terms welding in a new section would be weaker than original and could fail in the future?

Got it.

It's still crazy to me how low speed and minimal the crash seemed. I was behind him and I heard the smack but thought it was the plastic skid plate cracking. Would have never in my wildest dreams thought the frame cradle would look like this. Crap happens I guess. His best bet it seems is to buy a new one and chalk it up to damn that sucks.

kb228 wrote:

If the aluminum gets that weak from welding then that would hold true for every single weld on the frame from the factory. 6061 is extruded at whatever hardness and then welded. The frames arent hardened after welding. All welds are weaker than the original material. It that wasnt the case then these AF conversions wouldnt be existing.

Whilst is is probably best to buy a new frame or used one. I would not be afraid to takle that one on to make a solid repair.
if you use the right material and weld it with the right rod the a secure job would more than last the life of the bike!
The key is the material, if you use 7005 or 7020 and weld with 5356 rods then the weld HAZ (Heat affected zone) will naturally age harden to within 10% of the origional strength, if you machined the ends to fit insid the it would be even better.
after 3 weeks it would have age hardened enough to use and it will continue to gain strength every day up to 6 months.
I am sure most problems that ocure with Aluminium frames is using wrong filler wire and also not allowing age hardening to take place, especially with subframe repairs.

In that area where the frame is dented it is not so much the structual part as it is braced by the engine (check many road bike that se the engine as part of the frame ).
having said that, unless you were friendly with someone who had the facilities and time it probably would be cheaper to get a used frame maybe frome a team who would have this type of stuff if you wrote to them nicely, we alway try to help out here.