Forum QNA: Derek Dorresteyn - Alta Motors

JMX82
Posts
1393
Joined
5/9/2013
Location
Hyllykallio FI
3/21/2018 10:33pm
JMX82 wrote:
Greetings from cold Finland! Does you bike work in freezing temperatures like - 10 Celcius (14F)?
Hi JMX82, We tried some ice racing last month! Internal resistance in the batteries does increase as temperature decreases but the pack is operational to -20C...
Hi JMX82,

We tried some ice racing last month! Internal resistance in the batteries does increase as temperature decreases but the pack is operational to -20C, power is limited until the internal heating brings the pack up to temp so starts are better if the pack is not starting the race at -20C.

Jeff Fredette on the Alta Redshift is 2018 AMA Ice Race Grand Championship National #1 - Vet 40 GP

Best,

Derek

Thanks for the answer! -10C is cold enough for me Smile I hope we get to see your bikes here in Finland soon. Lot's of tracks have been closed due to noise issues and going electric would solve that problem
36Wheeler
Posts
130
Joined
2/15/2018
Location
Reading GB
3/22/2018 5:14am
Hi Derek

Many thanks for the QNA, has made for a very interesting read so far.
I have been thinking recently about the rise of electric vehicle technology and what it might do to the moto industry... Do you see electric bikes eventually drowning out the motorcycle market in many years to come or do you think that there will always be a large group of hardcore guys who love the sound, smell and thrill of the internal combustion engine?

In simple terms do you think that in 20 years say, a SX main event will be all electric guys or do you see the electric bikes coming into the scene as a separate class with a separate following similar to Formula E and formula 1?
It is easy to see that at this stage the technology surrounding electric vehicles is moving forward much faster than that of the internal combustion engine so at some point it has to overtake?...

Many thanks

One-Hander
Posts
133
Joined
4/22/2016
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
3/22/2018 5:35am
Hi Derek,

Are there any changes forecasted in the fork department? I believe you are running the 4CS forks, and they have gotten quite a bad rap with racers. Any chance of you guys updating to the newer AER models or another brand? Thanks.
3/22/2018 6:41am
One-Hander wrote:
Hi Derek, Are there any changes forecasted in the fork department? I believe you are running the 4CS forks, and they have gotten quite a bad...
Hi Derek,

Are there any changes forecasted in the fork department? I believe you are running the 4CS forks, and they have gotten quite a bad rap with racers. Any chance of you guys updating to the newer AER models or another brand? Thanks.
The new MXR model has the AER fork. The good thing is, there are a multitude of mods, expensive and inexpensive, to make the 4CS work. Or, just keep an eye out, guys will sell their AER stock suspension to replace them with Ohlins and other kits.

The Shop

Kenny Lingus
Posts
1022
Joined
9/9/2016
Location
Watkins Glen, NY US
3/22/2018 10:27am
Will there be any demo rides in Western NY? Looked on your website and didn't see anything listed.
Hi Kenny Lingus, Sign up for a demo on the website, Altamotors.co and between our demo team and the dealer network we will get you on...
Hi Kenny Lingus,

Sign up for a demo on the website, Altamotors.co and between our demo team and the dealer network we will get you on a bike!.

Best,

Derek
Thanks. I will.
3/22/2018 12:01pm
Ted722 wrote:
Derek, Thanks for doing this. Any OHV challenges? Particularly here in California...getting it approved for Off-Road Green sticker program, etc. Would seem like it would have...
Derek,
Thanks for doing this. Any OHV challenges? Particularly here in California...getting it approved for Off-Road Green sticker program, etc. Would seem like it would have been a no-brainer, but just curious if you guys ran into any issues.

It also appears you have a few models that will have tax breaks here in California in 2018 (and beyond I presume). Good stuff.

Last, but not least, KTM's talking about doing away with their 50's and replacing with electric. What's your take on this? A bottom-up transition to electric? An easier motorcycle to learn on?

Thanks again and congrats on the success of Alta.
Hi Ted722,

No problems getting a green sticker in CA.

The 2018 SM and EX are street legal and eligible for the CA tax breaks of $900-$1000.

The transition to electric will happen in any category where electric has an advantage. So in off road it's top down (Alta) and bottom up (KTM 50). The little bikes are attractive for some of the same reasons the Redshift is selling, very low maintenance and easier to ride.


Best,

Derek

3/22/2018 12:38pm
mxtech1 wrote:
From a manufacturing perspective.... How universal are your assembly lines and stations? Is it a mixed model line for all offroad models? Can you share the...
From a manufacturing perspective....

How universal are your assembly lines and stations?

Is it a mixed model line for all offroad models?

Can you share the TAKT time?

What type of quality initiatives differentiate your product from your competition?

Hi Mxtech1,

We are currently running all the bikes down the same manufacturing line, it's a traditional Toyota inspired manufacturing line with humans doing assembly. We build the electronics and batteries on a separate line that relies more on automation. Quality systems rely heavily on automotive methodologies and start at design and are focused on supplier quality and our own manufacturing quality. We do in line quality checks for critical to quality steps and collect data for all our in-house manufacturing. TAKT time would not impress you currently (think many minutes) but our systems are solid and we are constantly refining processes and doing our best to add capacity to match demand.

Best,

Derek
3/22/2018 12:45pm
One-Hander wrote:
Hi Derek, Are there any changes forecasted in the fork department? I believe you are running the 4CS forks, and they have gotten quite a bad...
Hi Derek,

Are there any changes forecasted in the fork department? I believe you are running the 4CS forks, and they have gotten quite a bad rap with racers. Any chance of you guys updating to the newer AER models or another brand? Thanks.
Hi One-Hander,

We listened to the criticism of the 4CS and made the change to the WP AER48 for the 2018 Alta Redhift MXR, we also went with a much firmer stock setting. The base model 2018 Alta Redshift MX ($10495) still comes with the 4CS.

Please sign up for a demo on the website and try the MXR with the AER48, the 25% more power and better suspension are a huge improvement.

Best,

Derek

3/22/2018 1:32pm Edited Date/Time 3/23/2018 9:28am
36Wheeler wrote:
Hi Derek Many thanks for the QNA, has made for a very interesting read so far. I have been thinking recently about the rise of electric...
Hi Derek

Many thanks for the QNA, has made for a very interesting read so far.
I have been thinking recently about the rise of electric vehicle technology and what it might do to the moto industry... Do you see electric bikes eventually drowning out the motorcycle market in many years to come or do you think that there will always be a large group of hardcore guys who love the sound, smell and thrill of the internal combustion engine?

In simple terms do you think that in 20 years say, a SX main event will be all electric guys or do you see the electric bikes coming into the scene as a separate class with a separate following similar to Formula E and formula 1?
It is easy to see that at this stage the technology surrounding electric vehicles is moving forward much faster than that of the internal combustion engine so at some point it has to overtake?...

Many thanks

Hi 36Wheeler,


Hopefully there are no drownings! We live in a world where climate change is deemed a big risk and legislators are acting on this, as examples, it will be illegal to sell new combustion engines in the Netherlands starting in 2025, in Germany in 2030, and in California in 2040. The motorcycle market is global and manufacturers need markets that are large enough to justify the investments in new things so they end up making models that can be sold in multiple places so these changes will accelerate a switch. In that not so far off future I believe that there will be more electric bikes, that is one reason I co-founded Alta, but as a guy who is committed to making really great electric bikes, ones that are potentially better than their gas counterpoints, that's one way to make sure this sport we love survives.

We want to be in a SX main event next year because we beat the competition in the heat!. If we can't get that we might need to settle for racing other electrics in the same venues and maybe over time, just like is starting to happen in Formula E , the sponsors, riders, and teams migrate. I'd prefer to have electric just be another option and not classified as another thing, after all we are all just trying to find the best way to get around a track or trail.

One technology overtaking another is literally the history of civilization.

Best,

Derek
Spizzy
Posts
90
Joined
8/28/2017
Location
Frankfort, IL US
3/22/2018 7:15pm
Also an early believer in your product and I own #90. Bought it in October, and was extremely happy with it until at 5 hours the battery failed. Contacted your team and in a week, you had a technician and battery come from California to Chicago to resolve and replace the battery. Ive since put 2.5 additional hours on it before the winter set in.
Great customer service, as my closest dealer at the time was in Alabama. That said, I cant help but feel Alta has dumped on their early believers. I knew going into this technology would improve and it would only get better, but I certainly didn't expect a $4,500 drop in msrp 5 months later for the same product. Do you know how hard it is for me to talk your product up to other racers that are well aware of this price reduction?
As it stands right now, I cant get a day of play riding out of it charging at 220V, so I'm forced to bring my ICE bike and deal with it, or step up and buy your quick charger for $800 more dollars on a bike Ive lost roughly 6K on in 5 months. Very disappointing. I'm not one to ask for handouts, but I firmly believe you owe all 2017 model buyers a discounted rate on that charger at a minimum.
mark911
Posts
360
Joined
3/28/2015
Location
Ashville, OH US
3/23/2018 3:58am
Spizzy wrote:
Also an early believer in your product and I own #90. Bought it in October, and was extremely happy with it until at 5 hours the...
Also an early believer in your product and I own #90. Bought it in October, and was extremely happy with it until at 5 hours the battery failed. Contacted your team and in a week, you had a technician and battery come from California to Chicago to resolve and replace the battery. Ive since put 2.5 additional hours on it before the winter set in.
Great customer service, as my closest dealer at the time was in Alabama. That said, I cant help but feel Alta has dumped on their early believers. I knew going into this technology would improve and it would only get better, but I certainly didn't expect a $4,500 drop in msrp 5 months later for the same product. Do you know how hard it is for me to talk your product up to other racers that are well aware of this price reduction?
As it stands right now, I cant get a day of play riding out of it charging at 220V, so I'm forced to bring my ICE bike and deal with it, or step up and buy your quick charger for $800 more dollars on a bike Ive lost roughly 6K on in 5 months. Very disappointing. I'm not one to ask for handouts, but I firmly believe you owe all 2017 model buyers a discounted rate on that charger at a minimum.
Heck, I'd be happy just to be offered one of the first 2018 MXRs off the line for a good price!

Every year like clockwork I get a call from a certain auto manufacturer asking me if I want to upgrade to the new year model. I would like to think that the original Alta buyers (as opposed to people that were given free bikes) would be looked upon in a similar light. If not now it's certainly not going to happen after Alta grows larger and more bureaucratic. In the big scheme of things it's all good anyway.
3/23/2018 10:58am
Spizzy wrote:
Also an early believer in your product and I own #90. Bought it in October, and was extremely happy with it until at 5 hours the...
Also an early believer in your product and I own #90. Bought it in October, and was extremely happy with it until at 5 hours the battery failed. Contacted your team and in a week, you had a technician and battery come from California to Chicago to resolve and replace the battery. Ive since put 2.5 additional hours on it before the winter set in.
Great customer service, as my closest dealer at the time was in Alabama. That said, I cant help but feel Alta has dumped on their early believers. I knew going into this technology would improve and it would only get better, but I certainly didn't expect a $4,500 drop in msrp 5 months later for the same product. Do you know how hard it is for me to talk your product up to other racers that are well aware of this price reduction?
As it stands right now, I cant get a day of play riding out of it charging at 220V, so I'm forced to bring my ICE bike and deal with it, or step up and buy your quick charger for $800 more dollars on a bike Ive lost roughly 6K on in 5 months. Very disappointing. I'm not one to ask for handouts, but I firmly believe you owe all 2017 model buyers a discounted rate on that charger at a minimum.
Hi Spizzy,

First of all thank you for being an early customer of Alta and I'm happy to hear that your are satisfied with the customer service experience and apologies that there was an issue in the first place. We are committed to making sure that you have a great experience with Alta and I would like you to send a message to info@altamotors.co about your concerns. I'll follow up with and make sure you are satisfied.

Best,

Derek

3/23/2018 11:02am
mark911 wrote:
Heck, I'd be happy just to be offered one of the first 2018 MXRs off the line for a good price! Every year like clockwork I...
Heck, I'd be happy just to be offered one of the first 2018 MXRs off the line for a good price!

Every year like clockwork I get a call from a certain auto manufacturer asking me if I want to upgrade to the new year model. I would like to think that the original Alta buyers (as opposed to people that were given free bikes) would be looked upon in a similar light. If not now it's certainly not going to happen after Alta grows larger and more bureaucratic. In the big scheme of things it's all good anyway.
Hi Mark,

I can think of nothing better than the early Alta customers all riding around on the latest and greatest that would be a testament to what we are trying to do for sure. I'll pass your idea on about the MXRs and I suggest you also sent in a note about it to info@altamotors.co.

Thanks again for your support.


Best,

Derek
colintrax
Posts
4704
Joined
8/25/2015
Location
Taylorsville, GA US
Fantasy
2363rd
3/23/2018 11:29am
Hey Derek, thanks for stopping by.

I'm one of those people that can't stand aluminum frames, they don't offer the same feedback as a steel frame does and most of them make me feel very uncomfortable on the track. Kinda like riding with arm pump.
I test rode an Alta and was very impressed with the frame. Didn't have the dead feeling I get from most. However I can't help but imagine y'all would've made it even better with steel. Was there any reasons for aluminum other than cost and ease of casting/machining? Have y'all tried a steel frame with the electric drivetrain? Is there any plans for steel frames in the future?
Whats the primary goal with the future models? Lower weight, more power and so forth.

Thank you!
3/23/2018 1:47pm
colintrax wrote:
Hey Derek, thanks for stopping by. I'm one of those people that can't stand aluminum frames, they don't offer the same feedback as a steel frame...
Hey Derek, thanks for stopping by.

I'm one of those people that can't stand aluminum frames, they don't offer the same feedback as a steel frame does and most of them make me feel very uncomfortable on the track. Kinda like riding with arm pump.
I test rode an Alta and was very impressed with the frame. Didn't have the dead feeling I get from most. However I can't help but imagine y'all would've made it even better with steel. Was there any reasons for aluminum other than cost and ease of casting/machining? Have y'all tried a steel frame with the electric drivetrain? Is there any plans for steel frames in the future?
Whats the primary goal with the future models? Lower weight, more power and so forth.

Thank you!
Hi Colintrax,

I hear you and for sure there are big differences in the flex characteristics of Aluminum vs. Steel MX frames. Finding the right solution to what is a complex multi variable problem was not easy and we did a lot of competitive research on both steel and aluminum chassis in the development of the Redshift before going down the path we did. Our chassis is functionally similar to a other MX frames out there in that it has ergos, flex characteristics, and geometry that riders feel immediately comfortable on but how we achieved that is novel.We had a few brand new problems to solve, led by accommodating the largest battery pack ever put into a production off-road motorcycle, creating a cooling loop for the motor and inverter that sinks heat into the chassis, and using a stressed casting as the main frame element. Inspired by the words of the late motorcycle designer John Britten "every part needs to do at least two jobs", we took this to heart, especially in our cast frame structure that we call the "rear bulkhead" it's the outer water jacket of the motor and inverter, the gear box housing, the central structure of the frame with swing arm, front frame section, rear subframe, and battery all connecting to it. This tight integration was done while maintaining the desired CG and having material and form that carries the immense loads generated during MX all while driving the lowest system mass.

Glad to hear you like the result, we tried to pull in desirable elements into the design from both the aluminum and steel strategy camps. Certainly building something that could be serially produced was important from the beginning.

Best,

Derek
KooyaKooya
Posts
105
Joined
11/27/2016
Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
3/23/2018 5:45pm Edited Date/Time 3/23/2018 6:45pm
One of the things that's always fascinated me about dirt bikes is the way in which all of the design elements so delicately play together to give each bike a unique and distinct character, like how Suzukis are know for "cornering on rails". Frame geometry, triple clamp design, rear linkage dimensions, flex characteristics, engine mounting, weight distribution, wheelbase, suspension setup... the list goes on and on, and if just one of those things is off, the bike can be a total turkey. Thus it seems like such a daunting task to design a brand new bike from scratch, as even well established companies have been known to screw it up (look at the 2006 KX 250 for example). What gave you guys at Alta the confidence to give it a go? Have members of your staff had prior experience designing dirt bikes? Did you outsource expertise from people in the industry, perhaps ex-employees of the Big Four Japanese companies?
3/24/2018 11:21am
KooyaKooya wrote:
One of the things that's always fascinated me about dirt bikes is the way in which all of the design elements so delicately play together to...
One of the things that's always fascinated me about dirt bikes is the way in which all of the design elements so delicately play together to give each bike a unique and distinct character, like how Suzukis are know for "cornering on rails". Frame geometry, triple clamp design, rear linkage dimensions, flex characteristics, engine mounting, weight distribution, wheelbase, suspension setup... the list goes on and on, and if just one of those things is off, the bike can be a total turkey. Thus it seems like such a daunting task to design a brand new bike from scratch, as even well established companies have been known to screw it up (look at the 2006 KX 250 for example). What gave you guys at Alta the confidence to give it a go? Have members of your staff had prior experience designing dirt bikes? Did you outsource expertise from people in the industry, perhaps ex-employees of the Big Four Japanese companies?
Hi KooyaKooya,

It is/was a daunting task to build a new MX bike from scratch and coming up with a successful methodology to understand what is working and why and then incorporate that into our design was a big task. In answer to your question "did we get help" I'd say yes but it mostly came from the deep base of knowledge that exists here on refining race bikes and the fixing problems that the OEMs create . Since we have a large concentration of very high levels of racing in the US we also have a lot of really knowledgeable and skilled individuals who know what works and why. The deep product development skills and knowledge are still mainly in Japan and Europe but we are doing our best to attract some of that talent to our team, consult with experts when we can, and to develop the deep understanding of structures and vehicle dynamics that it takes to build great motorcycles. An ongoing example of these efforts has been Dave Arnold's (former Honda team manager) involvement with our chassis and suspension refinement for SX racing, Dave has been a big part of the development of the modern MX bike and his insights, intuition, and experience really help us to get to results faster. Are we done with development and refinement? never but the approach to date and the results are getting very good reviews. At the recent product launch of the MXR I heard more than once that we had probably build the best handling motorcycle ever made.

Best,

Derek
Ted722
Posts
4487
Joined
9/21/2011
Location
Sacramento, CA US
3/24/2018 12:33pm
Derek,
Curious what (if any) procedures off-road racing organizations are using for dead engine starts and Alta's.

Ted
3/24/2018 2:50pm
Hi Derek,

First off, well done and a credit to you all at Alta.

The product you offer is obviously state of the art and continuing development costs must be extreme,

Where does the finance come from to allow Alta to continue and push towards the future, assuming that you in no way sell enough bikes to fund the entire project,

Lottery, drugs or fantastic investors other than yourselves?
ML512
Posts
15463
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
54th
3/25/2018 8:16pm
Derek, thanks so much for your time here this week and everyone that participated. Hope all enjoyed and stay tuned for the next QNA
3/26/2018 12:27pm
Ted722 wrote:
Derek,
Curious what (if any) procedures off-road racing organizations are using for dead engine starts and Alta's.

Ted
Hi Ted722,

This has not been a problem to date, you still need to push a start button , like hitting the starter on some bikes.

Best,

Derek
3/26/2018 12:34pm
Hi Derek, First off, well done and a credit to you all at Alta. The product you offer is obviously state of the art and continuing...
Hi Derek,

First off, well done and a credit to you all at Alta.

The product you offer is obviously state of the art and continuing development costs must be extreme,

Where does the finance come from to allow Alta to continue and push towards the future, assuming that you in no way sell enough bikes to fund the entire project,

Lottery, drugs or fantastic investors other than yourselves?
Hi Inthebadboycorner,

I confirm that we are making large investments into development and R&D, this is an indication of both how much we believe in the space and how much we think electric will be a growing part of it, we are really fortunate to have found a group of individual and institutional investors that share the same vision.


Best,

Derek
3/26/2018 12:37pm Edited Date/Time 3/26/2018 12:37pm
ML512 wrote:
Derek, thanks so much for your time here this week and everyone that participated. Hope all enjoyed and stay tuned for the next QNA
Thanks Michael,

I've enjoyed every minute of it, there has been a lot of thoughtful questions and a great discourse. Thanks for the opportunity and keep up the great work you do at VitalMX.

Best,

Derek
Ted722
Posts
4487
Joined
9/21/2011
Location
Sacramento, CA US
3/31/2018 12:18am
Hi R.EX, Homologation into AMA amateur racing has gone fairly well, while we are not allowed to race as a 250 as we thought would be...
Hi R.EX,

Homologation into AMA amateur racing has gone fairly well, while we are not allowed to race as a 250 as we thought would be fair we are allow to run in classes were displacement is open, like Vets, Womens, College boy, etc. As time passes and the world becomes more familiar with our bikes and electric propulsion in general we hope to get back to a CC equivalency test. Expect to see a handful of Alta's at the qualifiers and hopefully some at Loretta's this year!.

Homologation into professional racing (SX, US Outdoors, and MXGP ) is another story. The conversations are happening but things are not moving nearly as fast as we would like. We are very sympathetic to concerns about getting it right but in the end we are very sensitive to not putting things out of balance and just want an opportunity to demonstrate the capabilities our products like the other brands and if you believe like I do that electric will be an ever growing part of motorcycling the time to act is sooner and not later as more brands get involved and want to participate. Ready to Race? SO ARE WE!

Best,

Derek
I truly don't understand the recent ban on Electric bikes at Loretta's in the age or open classes. Regardless, make lemons into lemonade. Looking forward to taking a test ride one of these days and seeing more and more of these bikes in action.
CG118
Posts
630
Joined
6/27/2014
Location
Kennesaw, GA US
3/31/2018 10:18am
I’m just waiting for you guys to cut a little more weight, and then myself and my 3 sons will all be on Altas. Goodbye noise/ICEs. I’ll head right down to Highland Park Resort and get them from Paul Wright.

Thanks for coming on here and doing the QNA.

Chris
peltier626
Posts
1401
Joined
3/15/2018
Location
LA US
3/31/2018 10:28am
Derek, Could you elaborate on the denial to compete on a open national platform and what time frame do you expect when it comes to national participation?
Holigan
Posts
1444
Joined
6/18/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
3/31/2018 12:16pm
Rode my MXR for the first time last Sunday. The bike is awesome! Thanks you
Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
3/31/2018 12:56pm
Holigan wrote:
Rode my MXR for the first time last Sunday. The bike is awesome! Thanks you
Congrats on the new ride!

Post a reply to: Forum QNA: Derek Dorresteyn - Alta Motors

The Latest