Forum QNA: 2019 250 Shootout

ML512
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ML512
Edited Date/Time 1/15/2019 12:04pm
Hello all! Pretty simple in here, if you have a question about the test itself, fire away. If you have a question to a specific test rider about their opinions, I'm here of course (Michael Lindsay) and our other editor Sean Klinger, Shelby Paget and Joe Carlino are regulars on the forum as well, while the other testers (Chris Hay, Zach Peddie, and Kusti Manninen) they're but a text away for me. I can forward on those questions and see if I can wrangle up an answer.

Btw, here's the link to the article, in case you haven't seen it: https://www.vitalmx.com/features/2019-Vital-MX-250-Shootout,6335

Lastly, we're curious what you, the reader, think of the actual Shootout. Too long, just right, too short (I doubt that, ha)...and what the context in which we cover it. We appreciate any feedback you might have.
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theycallmeebryan 12/12/2018 7:51am
12/12/2018 7:51am
No dyno's again just like the 450's? Was it the same issue you had in the 450 shootout? Kinda bummed about that. Its a great way to compare the power of each bike in the shootout.
ML512
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ML512 12/12/2018 8:07am
12/12/2018 8:07am
theycallmeebryan wrote:
No dyno's again just like the 450's? Was it the same issue you had in the 450 shootout? Kinda bummed about that. Its a great way...
No dyno's again just like the 450's? Was it the same issue you had in the 450 shootout? Kinda bummed about that. Its a great way to compare the power of each bike in the shootout.
In this case we couldn’t get all the bikes at the same time to do a dyno day.
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brycepdh 12/12/2018 8:18am
12/12/2018 8:18am
The Forum QNA link at the end of the article just opens a new web page of the article and not the thread.
yz133rider
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yz133rider 12/12/2018 8:30am
12/12/2018 8:30am
In this case i feel like you didnt have the suzuki long enough to do a proper test let alone a shootout with 6 riders with it. Damned if u do damned if you dont include it i understand that

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ML512
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ML512 12/12/2018 8:54am
12/12/2018 8:54am
yz133rider wrote:
In this case i feel like you didnt have the suzuki long enough to do a proper test let alone a shootout with 6 riders with...
In this case i feel like you didnt have the suzuki long enough to do a proper test let alone a shootout with 6 riders with it. Damned if u do damned if you dont include it i understand that
I asked each rider in the test what it would’ve taken to move the Suzuki up (the one start rated it sixth), they all said further days of testing in stock trim wouldn’t have helped its rating. And I personally full agree from my own standpoint.
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mattyhamz2 12/12/2018 9:08am
12/12/2018 9:08am
Sucks that you guys only got the Suzuki for one day.

Michael, thank you for including so many different skill levels for the shootout. It's nice seeing what an average Joe(pun intended) thinks about everything. Having ridden with Joe a few times it's great to hear his opinion on the bikes having seen his riding. I've seen Shelby's videos on IG so at least I have a good idea of his speed as well. I enjoy hearing a regular guys opinion compared to nothing but new and old pros since what they look for and like isn't what most guys would want. I understand it can be hard to get the average guy to translate what they feel into words, but this is a huge reason I always pay more attention to the Vital shootouts vs anyone else.

Thanks for always doing an awesome job with the shootouts and for having normal guys involved!
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moto671z
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moto671z 12/12/2018 10:51am
12/12/2018 10:51am
Do you have the settings for the TPST map? Is this the same as the connected response map on Yamaha’s website?
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nytsmaC 12/12/2018 12:50pm
12/12/2018 12:50pm
How come the bike scores don’t match how the riders individually ranked them?
ML512
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ML512 12/12/2018 1:38pm
12/12/2018 1:38pm
moto671z wrote:
Do you have the settings for the TPST map? Is this the same as the connected response map on Yamaha’s website?
Trying to get it right now.
ML512
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ML512 12/12/2018 1:44pm
12/12/2018 1:44pm
nytsmaC wrote:
How come the bike scores don’t match how the riders individually ranked them?
Something didn't get moved over correctly from my build out area, it's corrected now.
swtwtwtw
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swtwtwtw 12/12/2018 3:43pm
12/12/2018 3:43pm Edited Date/Time 12/12/2018 3:46pm
For the yz250f and yup


And don’t neglect changing the “position “ settings. Many people are just changing the “value” numbers.
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opyguy
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opyguy 12/12/2018 4:04pm
12/12/2018 4:04pm
MXA says Suzuki makes more power than the KX
ML512
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ML512 12/12/2018 4:29pm
12/12/2018 4:29pm
TP map, I’ll add it to the article.


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holeshot413
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holeshot413 12/12/2018 5:42pm
12/12/2018 5:42pm
How was the reliability of bikes?
How long did you ride or race them?

We’re they tested under any racing conditions?
ML512
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ML512 12/12/2018 6:09pm
12/12/2018 6:09pm
holeshot413 wrote:
How was the reliability of bikes?
How long did you ride or race them?

We’re they tested under any racing conditions?
No reliability problems, most bikes ended the test with an additional 12-15 hours over where they started the Shootout. No races were performed during this Shootout.
CarlinoJoeVideo
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CarlinoJoeVideo 12/12/2018 10:52pm
12/12/2018 10:52pm
moto671z wrote:
Do you have the settings for the TPST map? Is this the same as the connected response map on Yamaha’s website?
The TP map is really good! The WiFi tuner is the future of mapping for me, I love to mess around with bikes and that is the ultimate gadget!
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Myke
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Myke 12/13/2018 7:54am
12/13/2018 7:54am
swtwtwtw wrote:
For the yz250f and yup [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/12/12/309423/s1200_F8A5EE34_EBFB_4718_BCC4_05DCEA30D301.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/12/12/309425/s1200_D4A70731_AEAE_4E9E_B9D4_FF4837031EAD.jpg[/img] And don’t neglect changing the “position “ settings. Many people are just changing the “value” numbers.
For the yz250f and yup


And don’t neglect changing the “position “ settings. Many people are just changing the “value” numbers.
Thanks for the help with my map on my '19 yz250f last weekend! I was one of those that didn't know to change the "position" settings. Runs really really good now.

I have 12 hours on mine and it is the best bike I have owned to date.
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grunkster
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grunkster 12/13/2018 9:29am
12/13/2018 9:29am
TP map is great...I originally only entered the numbers and failed to changed the rpm ranges...fixed
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BRG11
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BRG11 12/13/2018 2:44pm
12/13/2018 2:44pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2018 2:44pm
Kind of surprised to see you guys rate the Honda so low this year compared to last year when the bike seemed to be an overall improvement from 2018. Was it because the bike was all new last year so everyone was just more excited about Honda finally producing a competitive 250?
ML512
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ML512 12/13/2018 3:16pm
12/13/2018 3:16pm
BRG11 wrote:
Kind of surprised to see you guys rate the Honda so low this year compared to last year when the bike seemed to be an overall...
Kind of surprised to see you guys rate the Honda so low this year compared to last year when the bike seemed to be an overall improvement from 2018. Was it because the bike was all new last year so everyone was just more excited about Honda finally producing a competitive 250?
Well, the Honda got second last year and fourth this year, but if you look at the added scores...second, third, and fourth were basically a point apart from each. Last year the KTM beat it and the '19 KTM was just as good if not improved, the Yamaha jumped up to the winning spot with a big list of improvements and then the '19 Husky was fairly improved too. But it was super close between the Honda, KTM, and Husky.
Mike McCutcheon 12/13/2018 7:19pm
12/13/2018 7:19pm
Michael you mentioned going up to a 110/90 rear on the Yamaha since the motor was so strong. Are you planning on giving it a try? What about a 49t or 51t spricket change for either a long winded 2nd gear or a meaty 3rd gear?
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BRG11 12/13/2018 7:25pm
12/13/2018 7:25pm
ML512 wrote:
Well, the Honda got second last year and fourth this year, but if you look at the added scores...second, third, and fourth were basically a point...
Well, the Honda got second last year and fourth this year, but if you look at the added scores...second, third, and fourth were basically a point apart from each. Last year the KTM beat it and the '19 KTM was just as good if not improved, the Yamaha jumped up to the winning spot with a big list of improvements and then the '19 Husky was fairly improved too. But it was super close between the Honda, KTM, and Husky.
With that said do you think you can go wrong with any of the bikes? It seems like you can just pick a color in the 450 class and you’ll probably be happy with it. For a non racer weekend warrior novice would it be that much more beneficial to buy the Yamaha over the KTM or the Honda over the Husky, etc...? Since the bikes all seem good these days it’s looking like a personal preference choice over a performance choice.
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ML512
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ML512 12/13/2018 10:25pm
12/13/2018 10:25pm
Mike McCutcheon wrote:
Michael you mentioned going up to a 110/90 rear on the Yamaha since the motor was so strong. Are you planning on giving it a try...
Michael you mentioned going up to a 110/90 rear on the Yamaha since the motor was so strong. Are you planning on giving it a try? What about a 49t or 51t spricket change for either a long winded 2nd gear or a meaty 3rd gear?
I run 110 on all 250s once the shootout is over. I understand why the Japanese OEMs soec their bikes with 100s but I really wish the YZ250F came with that 110 stock and a wider rear rim, like the KTM or Husky.
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ML512
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ML512 12/13/2018 10:28pm
12/13/2018 10:28pm
BRG11 wrote:
With that said do you think you can go wrong with any of the bikes? It seems like you can just pick a color in the...
With that said do you think you can go wrong with any of the bikes? It seems like you can just pick a color in the 450 class and you’ll probably be happy with it. For a non racer weekend warrior novice would it be that much more beneficial to buy the Yamaha over the KTM or the Honda over the Husky, etc...? Since the bikes all seem good these days it’s looking like a personal preference choice over a performance choice.
I still believe that a specific bike in this group will suit a user more than the other five and improve their experience. For every guy will it be the winner? Naw, but based on what we collect it seems the Yamaha would be considered the most rounded bike and suit the largest amount of riders. But at that, I think every bike in this test could be the best bike for a certain rider and that’s why I implore anyone to read each section, other Shootouts, and learn all they can.
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Mike McCutcheon 12/13/2018 10:58pm
12/13/2018 10:58pm
Thank you ML for the tire size info. I intend to do the same.
I have a 2019 YZ250F, Is it important to have the wider 450 rim with a 110 or is the difference in handling not noticeable to the average rider?
I’m wondering if a 110 mounted on the stock rim would affect the tire profile and height, causing more tire flex/roll when leaned over and accelerating plus a little taller gearing.
I’m probably overthinking this....
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ML512
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ML512 12/14/2018 7:26am
12/14/2018 7:26am
Mike McCutcheon wrote:
Thank you ML for the tire size info. I intend to do the same. I have a 2019 YZ250F, Is it important to have the wider...
Thank you ML for the tire size info. I intend to do the same.
I have a 2019 YZ250F, Is it important to have the wider 450 rim with a 110 or is the difference in handling not noticeable to the average rider?
I’m wondering if a 110 mounted on the stock rim would affect the tire profile and height, causing more tire flex/roll when leaned over and accelerating plus a little taller gearing.
I’m probably overthinking this....
The rim size will effect the tire profile a bit, make sure you 110/80-19 instead of a 110/90-19. The 90 is taller and feels really tall on the smaller rim size.
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Naanak 12/14/2018 9:50am
12/14/2018 9:50am
To me the Honda sounds like the perfect bike besides the motor. I currently have a 16 Yz250f and had a 14 Crf250r before. I never had an issue with the Honda motor before and still wouldn’t, even compared to the potent yz motor. With that said is the Honda motor that bad that it wouldn’t be worth it. Also I ride a lot of sand which is why I’m concerned.
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MBR 12/14/2018 1:41pm
12/14/2018 1:41pm
Naanak wrote:
To me the Honda sounds like the perfect bike besides the motor. I currently have a 16 Yz250f and had a 14 Crf250r before. I never...
To me the Honda sounds like the perfect bike besides the motor. I currently have a 16 Yz250f and had a 14 Crf250r before. I never had an issue with the Honda motor before and still wouldn’t, even compared to the potent yz motor. With that said is the Honda motor that bad that it wouldn’t be worth it. Also I ride a lot of sand which is why I’m concerned.
Honda motor is really fun and fast, but going from bike to another it takes a while to get used to. Also the ergonomics and ease of turning are best in class!
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mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 12/14/2018 4:16pm
12/14/2018 4:16pm
Mike McCutcheon wrote:
Thank you ML for the tire size info. I intend to do the same. I have a 2019 YZ250F, Is it important to have the wider...
Thank you ML for the tire size info. I intend to do the same.
I have a 2019 YZ250F, Is it important to have the wider 450 rim with a 110 or is the difference in handling not noticeable to the average rider?
I’m wondering if a 110 mounted on the stock rim would affect the tire profile and height, causing more tire flex/roll when leaned over and accelerating plus a little taller gearing.
I’m probably overthinking this....
ML512 wrote:
The rim size will effect the tire profile a bit, make sure you 110/80-19 instead of a 110/90-19. The 90 is taller and feels really tall...
The rim size will effect the tire profile a bit, make sure you 110/80-19 instead of a 110/90-19. The 90 is taller and feels really tall on the smaller rim size.
Haven't ridden 250f's since 2008, but who still makes a 110/80? Last time I looked it didn't seem like many still made them.
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Cancerman
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Cancerman 12/14/2018 11:11pm
12/14/2018 11:11pm
yz133rider wrote:
In this case i feel like you didnt have the suzuki long enough to do a proper test let alone a shootout with 6 riders with...
In this case i feel like you didnt have the suzuki long enough to do a proper test let alone a shootout with 6 riders with it. Damned if u do damned if you dont include it i understand that
ML512 wrote:
I asked each rider in the test what it would’ve taken to move the Suzuki up (the one start rated it sixth), they all said further...
I asked each rider in the test what it would’ve taken to move the Suzuki up (the one start rated it sixth), they all said further days of testing in stock trim wouldn’t have helped its rating. And I personally full agree from my own standpoint.
Michael, I've noticed that for the last several years, the majority of test riders are all featherweight girly boys. How about a wider variety of weights, maybe a couple more old farts. Many new bike purchasers are over 40, as they are the ones with the disposable income. I know you are testing the bikes the way they come, but skinny guys all complained about the Suzi being too stiff. Did you re spring the Suzi and then play with the set up? I think that would make for a more through test. You played with mapping, couplers, so why not test them properly sprung? Your big boy had to ride all the others with soft springs?
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