Forrest Butler and Mark Kvamme welcomed back with open arms?

USA
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8/7/2022 10:46am Edited Date/Time 8/8/2022 6:24pm
After stealing more money from families than anyone I know of in the industry, these 2 guys start teams back up with a few privateers and everything is golden.

Interesting how people turn a blind eye to these types of guys. Why don't people look at them like the criminals that they are? Is it because they are personable? People go absolutely nuts when someone like Varner doesn't come through with a $2k motor job, but these 2 have swindled millions throughout the years.
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Juck
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8/7/2022 11:12am
What actually happened with all that isn't publicly available information or at least I don't think it is so I can't really make a proper judgement on them. Doesn't look good though with them not paying Baggett, which is probably what I dislike the most about the situation. Can you elaborate more on the stealing money from families comment?
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El Capitan
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8/7/2022 11:14am
"It's a small club---and we ain't in it..." -George Carlin.
8/7/2022 11:23am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2022 11:49am
Didn’t the BBMX/RMATV program screw over Max Markolf too, leading to him giving up the sport before going pro? Correct me if I’m wrong. (edit: I was wrong)

I wish the moto media would actually hold these people accountable for this shit since it seems like no one else does, but that’ll never happen. It seems we don’t have journalists in our sport, just podcasters.
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DonM
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8/7/2022 11:35am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2022 11:36am
Juck wrote:
What actually happened with all that isn't publicly available information or at least I don't think it is so I can't really make a proper judgement...
What actually happened with all that isn't publicly available information or at least I don't think it is so I can't really make a proper judgement on them. Doesn't look good though with them not paying Baggett, which is probably what I dislike the most about the situation. Can you elaborate more on the stealing money from families comment?
MDK didn't pay anybody his last year, not the riders, the mechanics, truck driver and the suppliers...he took his race team bankrupt to avoid paying anyone even though he's a billionaire...the guy is a complete douche....Butler is a little different he got stiffed by his financial partner and he didn't have anywhere to get money but he did let everyone go so they could at least find rides/jobs but for the most all got paid...one is bad management while the other is nothing but a crook...
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ML512
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8/7/2022 11:35am
Didn’t the BBMX/RMATV program screw over Max Markolf too, leading to him giving up the sport before going pro? Correct me if I’m wrong. (edit: I...
Didn’t the BBMX/RMATV program screw over Max Markolf too, leading to him giving up the sport before going pro? Correct me if I’m wrong. (edit: I was wrong)

I wish the moto media would actually hold these people accountable for this shit since it seems like no one else does, but that’ll never happen. It seems we don’t have journalists in our sport, just podcasters.
I could be wrong, but I think that Markolf ended up suing KTM on that one? His contract may have been with them and not BBMX?
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-MAVERICK-
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8/7/2022 11:42am
Didn’t the BBMX/RMATV program screw over Max Markolf too, leading to him giving up the sport before going pro? Correct me if I’m wrong. (edit: I...
Didn’t the BBMX/RMATV program screw over Max Markolf too, leading to him giving up the sport before going pro? Correct me if I’m wrong. (edit: I was wrong)

I wish the moto media would actually hold these people accountable for this shit since it seems like no one else does, but that’ll never happen. It seems we don’t have journalists in our sport, just podcasters.
ML512 wrote:
I could be wrong, but I think that Markolf ended up suing KTM on that one? His contract may have been with them and not BBMX?
diz330
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8/7/2022 11:45am
We don't know they ripped off baggett. everyone signs non disclosures but pretty sure they came to a deal. Matthes has said a few times how is the media supposed to report on these topics when no one gives up any information? Or he gets one side of the fued but the other person won't talk...so he can't report on the topic when the one person could be throwing the other person under the bus and not getting other side of the story.
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8/7/2022 11:47am
Didn’t the BBMX/RMATV program screw over Max Markolf too, leading to him giving up the sport before going pro? Correct me if I’m wrong. (edit: I...
Didn’t the BBMX/RMATV program screw over Max Markolf too, leading to him giving up the sport before going pro? Correct me if I’m wrong. (edit: I was wrong)

I wish the moto media would actually hold these people accountable for this shit since it seems like no one else does, but that’ll never happen. It seems we don’t have journalists in our sport, just podcasters.
ML512 wrote:
I could be wrong, but I think that Markolf ended up suing KTM on that one? His contract may have been with them and not BBMX?
Ah, looks like you and Mav are right. I thought he was under the RMATV program as an am at the time, guess I misremembered.
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ML512
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8/7/2022 11:51am
Ah, looks like you and Mav are right. I thought he was under the RMATV program as an am at the time, guess I misremembered.
I think KTM was “placing him there” as they had a longer-term commitment to him.
Cygrace74
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8/7/2022 12:09pm
Have I missed something, who is mark kvamme? Is that Ethan lanes dad and owner of 83? If so that’s like the third last name I’ve heard of that guy
ML512
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8/7/2022 12:17pm
Cygrace74 wrote:
Have I missed something, who is mark kvamme? Is that Ethan lanes dad and owner of 83? If so that’s like the third last name I’ve...
Have I missed something, who is mark kvamme? Is that Ethan lanes dad and owner of 83? If so that’s like the third last name I’ve heard of that guy
No, Mark Kvamme was MDK KTM back in the late 2000s.
-MAVERICK-
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8/7/2022 12:17pm
Cygrace74 wrote:
Have I missed something, who is mark kvamme? Is that Ethan lanes dad and owner of 83? If so that’s like the third last name I’ve...
Have I missed something, who is mark kvamme? Is that Ethan lanes dad and owner of 83? If so that’s like the third last name I’ve heard of that guy
No. Remember MDK Motorsports? That was him.

FastEddy
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8/7/2022 12:39pm Edited Date/Time 8/7/2022 12:40pm
Juck wrote:
What actually happened with all that isn't publicly available information or at least I don't think it is so I can't really make a proper judgement...
What actually happened with all that isn't publicly available information or at least I don't think it is so I can't really make a proper judgement on them. Doesn't look good though with them not paying Baggett, which is probably what I dislike the most about the situation. Can you elaborate more on the stealing money from families comment?
DonM wrote:
MDK didn't pay anybody his last year, not the riders, the mechanics, truck driver and the suppliers...he took his race team bankrupt to avoid paying anyone...
MDK didn't pay anybody his last year, not the riders, the mechanics, truck driver and the suppliers...he took his race team bankrupt to avoid paying anyone even though he's a billionaire...the guy is a complete douche....Butler is a little different he got stiffed by his financial partner and he didn't have anywhere to get money but he did let everyone go so they could at least find rides/jobs but for the most all got paid...one is bad management while the other is nothing but a crook...
Didn't at one time Wiseco also not pay Butler Brothers a pretty decent amount money owed to them?
I think I remember reading a pretty pissed off post on the old MotoNews/MotoTalk site talking about it.
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AZ35
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8/7/2022 12:59pm
Cygrace74 wrote:
Have I missed something, who is mark kvamme? Is that Ethan lanes dad and owner of 83? If so that’s like the third last name I’ve...
Have I missed something, who is mark kvamme? Is that Ethan lanes dad and owner of 83? If so that’s like the third last name I’ve heard of that guy
Silicon Valley "venture capitalist" partner.

Lots of $$, pretty sure his Dad was a big wig Silicon Valley tech investor too.
UpTiTe
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8/7/2022 1:40pm
Juck wrote:
What actually happened with all that isn't publicly available information or at least I don't think it is so I can't really make a proper judgement...
What actually happened with all that isn't publicly available information or at least I don't think it is so I can't really make a proper judgement on them. Doesn't look good though with them not paying Baggett, which is probably what I dislike the most about the situation. Can you elaborate more on the stealing money from families comment?
DonM wrote:
MDK didn't pay anybody his last year, not the riders, the mechanics, truck driver and the suppliers...he took his race team bankrupt to avoid paying anyone...
MDK didn't pay anybody his last year, not the riders, the mechanics, truck driver and the suppliers...he took his race team bankrupt to avoid paying anyone even though he's a billionaire...the guy is a complete douche....Butler is a little different he got stiffed by his financial partner and he didn't have anywhere to get money but he did let everyone go so they could at least find rides/jobs but for the most all got paid...one is bad management while the other is nothing but a crook...
A bit deeper than “he got stiffed by his backer”.

There is a reason sponsors pull their money, it all caught up with him with Covid.
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DonM
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8/7/2022 2:28pm
Juck wrote:
What actually happened with all that isn't publicly available information or at least I don't think it is so I can't really make a proper judgement...
What actually happened with all that isn't publicly available information or at least I don't think it is so I can't really make a proper judgement on them. Doesn't look good though with them not paying Baggett, which is probably what I dislike the most about the situation. Can you elaborate more on the stealing money from families comment?
DonM wrote:
MDK didn't pay anybody his last year, not the riders, the mechanics, truck driver and the suppliers...he took his race team bankrupt to avoid paying anyone...
MDK didn't pay anybody his last year, not the riders, the mechanics, truck driver and the suppliers...he took his race team bankrupt to avoid paying anyone even though he's a billionaire...the guy is a complete douche....Butler is a little different he got stiffed by his financial partner and he didn't have anywhere to get money but he did let everyone go so they could at least find rides/jobs but for the most all got paid...one is bad management while the other is nothing but a crook...
UpTiTe wrote:
A bit deeper than “he got stiffed by his backer”.

There is a reason sponsors pull their money, it all caught up with him with Covid.
I was trying to point out the differences between the two…the vid is the reason he had to bring the partner in the first place…who in the end didn’t fulfill his agreed upon amount…
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8tensolutions
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8/7/2022 3:10pm
The real issue is all of this is here-say around Butler and we don't know what happened, so it is completely unfair to point fingers that way. It definitely sounds like they made some mistakes, but we just don't know.

MDK.....seems like they really left Will Hahn and others out to dry and not sure anyone is "welcoming" them back as Will and others have called them out directly on social. That question really should be directed to the WSX guys and how they can look the other way.
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Brent
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8/7/2022 3:37pm Edited Date/Time 8/7/2022 3:40pm
its because this sport is so small and hungry for any outside support, that people will get in bed with the same dudes who cheated them out of money, or are questionable businesses to begin with.

It even happens at the factory level - https://racerxonline.com/2018/02/22/yamaha-announces-termination-of-spo…

Supply and demand - if more outside money was coming into Motocross, then maybe there would be a higher caliber of team owner.
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McG194
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8/7/2022 3:47pm
Juck wrote:
What actually happened with all that isn't publicly available information or at least I don't think it is so I can't really make a proper judgement...
What actually happened with all that isn't publicly available information or at least I don't think it is so I can't really make a proper judgement on them. Doesn't look good though with them not paying Baggett, which is probably what I dislike the most about the situation. Can you elaborate more on the stealing money from families comment?
DonM wrote:
MDK didn't pay anybody his last year, not the riders, the mechanics, truck driver and the suppliers...he took his race team bankrupt to avoid paying anyone...
MDK didn't pay anybody his last year, not the riders, the mechanics, truck driver and the suppliers...he took his race team bankrupt to avoid paying anyone even though he's a billionaire...the guy is a complete douche....Butler is a little different he got stiffed by his financial partner and he didn't have anywhere to get money but he did let everyone go so they could at least find rides/jobs but for the most all got paid...one is bad management while the other is nothing but a crook...
Take a look at the bikes and rig from 21 and compare the sponsors to the start of 22 it will give you a good idea of who Forest screwed over.
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ehr400
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8/7/2022 6:41pm
Travis Preston sued MDK and won, for them not fulfilling their contract with him.
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scott_nz
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8/7/2022 6:59pm
i think it comes down to no one else stepping up to take their place,

i mean, if you had a choice of taking bikes and travel money, or pack a van yourself, its probably worth the risk on these teams,
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FreshTopEnd
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8/8/2022 10:39am
ehr400 wrote:
Travis Preston sued MDK and won, for them not fulfilling their contract with him.
Did he collect? Or did he just get a judgment against a bankrupt entity?
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DonM
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8/8/2022 4:14pm
ehr400 wrote:
Travis Preston sued MDK and won, for them not fulfilling their contract with him.
Did he collect? Or did he just get a judgment against a bankrupt entity?
Did not collect just got a judgment.
Cygrace74
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8/8/2022 6:24pm
Brent wrote:
its because this sport is so small and hungry for any outside support, that people will get in bed with the same dudes who cheated them...
its because this sport is so small and hungry for any outside support, that people will get in bed with the same dudes who cheated them out of money, or are questionable businesses to begin with.

It even happens at the factory level - https://racerxonline.com/2018/02/22/yamaha-announces-termination-of-spo…

Supply and demand - if more outside money was coming into Motocross, then maybe there would be a higher caliber of team owner.
I always took it as Knich was Millsaps way of buying his ride. It was announced along with his signing, their website had no info of any kind and was very vague for being such a big sponsor, and was terminated same time he stopped riding for them. Seemed like a front to me, the company disappeared when his ride ended and the contract terminated.
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Tyler D
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2/23/2023 12:50pm

Whats the latest on BBMX? Thought butler had a backer and sponsors lined up. 

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2/23/2023 3:12pm
Tyler D wrote:

Whats the latest on BBMX? Thought butler had a backer and sponsors lined up. 

This was their latest post on instagram.

Not a very good look if they are trying to sell off race bikes. I do know this is normal after a season. 

But no posts after about riders for MX or WSX isn't very promising. 

image-20230223161026-1

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Conkey
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2/23/2023 5:33pm
Cygrace74 wrote:
Have I missed something, who is mark kvamme? Is that Ethan lanes dad and owner of 83? If so that’s like the third last name I’ve...
Have I missed something, who is mark kvamme? Is that Ethan lanes dad and owner of 83? If so that’s like the third last name I’ve heard of that guy
AZ35 wrote:
Silicon Valley "venture capitalist" partner.

Lots of $$, pretty sure his Dad was a big wig Silicon Valley tech investor too.

Simpleton explanation:  His father invented a piece that is in every single computer.  Or pretty damn close to that.  

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