Forkner track cutting

TDeath21
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5/23/2017 11:42am
So if Dungey had entered the track at Southwick not at the start line but, just behind the next to last place guy, it would have...
So if Dungey had entered the track at Southwick not at the start line but, just behind the next to last place guy, it would have been alright? In Forkner's case, it's not about where he re-entered the track, it's about how much of the track he didn't ride compared to his competitors. What if after he left the mechanic's area he completed 25% of a another lap before the same thing happened. Can he just keep cutting the track to get to the mechanic's area as long as he doesn't re-enter the track in front of anyone? I like the kid and hope he does well but, he got by with one there.
TDeath21 wrote:
Exactly. Don't like the rough rollers section that takes a toll on your body and you've struggled with all day? Well just cut that section and...
Exactly. Don't like the rough rollers section that takes a toll on your body and you've struggled with all day? Well just cut that section and make sure you end up exactly where you were relative to your competitors. That way you won't lose track time or positions and you still aren't improving your track position. I'm not sure how people can say he didn't gain an advantage. Savatgy skipped a section. Forkner skipped roughly 40 seconds. They should have calculated the seconds that he skipped and added that to his total time. Easy fix. I'm a fan of Forkner (being from Missouri and all) and he's the one I want to win this championship, but that should never be allowed.
bama205 wrote:
One problem. He actually had an equipment issue.
I don't think there's a stipulation that allows track cutting for an equipment issue.
Pakoyz250f
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5/23/2017 12:42pm
HenryA wrote:
Oh Crush you're too dramatic, he doesn't deserve a penalty. It's the same in every sport. Imagine cutting half the track at a F1 race because...
Oh Crush you're too dramatic, he doesn't deserve a penalty. It's the same in every sport. Imagine cutting half the track at a F1 race because something mechanical, race control wouldn't mind and you would easily get away with it Whistling
Exactly... I can't imagine this happening at motogp or F1... They have to complete the lap in order to enter the pits
Jrewing
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5/24/2017 11:01pm
TeamGreen wrote:
You both are in the "Epic Fail" class.
TDeath21 wrote:
Thank you for your insightful, well thought out post. I'm glad you contributed greatly to the discussion.
TeamGreen wrote:
I've already e-mailed your parents. I'll expect your essays on this matter to be completed by the end of the week.
TeamGreen, how often do you drink and post?

As a repeat offender myself, I say keep
drinking
TeamGreen
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5/24/2017 11:07pm
TDeath21 wrote:
Thank you for your insightful, well thought out post. I'm glad you contributed greatly to the discussion.
TeamGreen wrote:
I've already e-mailed your parents. I'll expect your essays on this matter to be completed by the end of the week.
Jrewing wrote:
TeamGreen, how often do you drink and post?

As a repeat offender myself, I say keep
drinking
Rarely; but, when I do...I drink Don Julio. 1942. Thank you.

You'll have to forgive me, I'm burdened with reading and understanding the rules and the intent of words like "safest" and "safely".

But, that's just me.

The Shop

jemcee
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5/25/2017 12:01am
TeamGreen wrote:
Rarely; but, when I do...I drink Don Julio. 1942. Thank you. You'll have to forgive me, I'm burdened with reading and understanding the rules and the...
Rarely; but, when I do...I drink Don Julio. 1942. Thank you.

You'll have to forgive me, I'm burdened with reading and understanding the rules and the intent of words like "safest" and "safely".

But, that's just me.
haha aah ok well I got two more to burden you with "quickest" and "easiest"
DanDunes818
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Portland, OR US
5/25/2017 12:38am
I interviewed Austin after the race and he explained that an AMA / MXSports guy made him wait in the mechanics area for quite a while waiting for everyone to go by. Like ML said earlier in this thread, I thought he was way further back after the incident, but I understand people questioning it.

kage173
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TX US
5/25/2017 6:38am
Yes. AMA letting the factory teams and their stars do whatever they want as long as no other factory team stinks up the air about it...
Yes. AMA letting the factory teams and their stars do whatever they want as long as no other factory team stinks up the air about it. Ive always loved the team spotters sprinkled around the track while no one else can get near those same areas.
kage173 wrote:
Good point on the spotters. I've always thought the same thing. So is it cool for every privateer to show up with their parents, uncles, cousins...
Good point on the spotters. I've always thought the same thing. So is it cool for every privateer to show up with their parents, uncles, cousins and neighbors in team shirts and have them spread around the track?? It's definitely an advantage to be getting that kind of feedback. I've seen teams talk about the spotters picking out lines for riders and providing feedback on what the other guys are doing. Just nix it, it's not fair to everyone on the gate.
ML512 wrote:
"no one else can get near those same areas" As a photographer, I can and any crew member who applies the proper passes can. If a...
"no one else can get near those same areas"

As a photographer, I can and any crew member who applies the proper passes can. If a privateer wants dudes out there everywhere, go get a bunch of buddies...some matching pit shirts...apply for the passes, and then they can.

There's a million things that's not fair to everyone on the gate. That's the point of being good enough to get on a good team...


Crush
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5/25/2017 7:12am
I interviewed Austin after the race and he explained that an AMA / MXSports guy made him wait in the mechanics area for quite a while...
I interviewed Austin after the race and he explained that an AMA / MXSports guy made him wait in the mechanics area for quite a while waiting for everyone to go by. Like ML said earlier in this thread, I thought he was way further back after the incident, but I understand people questioning it.

Still BS. Even if the official made him wait, it's another example of the on the fly bs that riddles this sport.

IF you let him come back bee line, the ONLY correct way to handle it, is to add the section time back on, AFTER the fact in a review situation.... and possible, a discretionary penalty for not following the track... cause who's to say Jmart's bike wouldn't have made it back if it only had to go another 100 metres from the first time he heard it bog...
nrosso391
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5/25/2017 7:32am
After hearing it from Mathees on the podcast, Forkner should have been penalized. I agree with JT about the other teams dropping the ball and not saying anything or protesting.

I say the AMA Officials currently suck on anything to do with the rules they created. They need to make it clear when a rider has to come into the pits, "they MUST enter the mechanics area from the portion of the track that is adjacent to it" NOT cutting the track to get there and then entering without going back to the portion you cut off your lap. AMA needs to do something about who's Officiating these races, because they are the worst I've ever seen them right now.
Judging by what JT said, his bike might not have even made it back to the pits and probably would have taken him another 30+ seconds over race pace to get there. So, he saved I think over a minute of time. I'd be pissed if I was the guys behind him.
Robgvx
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5/25/2017 9:21am
Why can't the rule be like it always was here? If you leave the track you re-join at the place you left it...
OW38B
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5/25/2017 9:32am
To eliminate all of this conjecture about this "advantage" or not business. They should reinstate the past rule where you had to re-enter the track at the spot you left the track or further back on the track. They could make an allowance if you go off the track on a downhill you can re-enter at the bottom of the hill.


Seems all of the Kawasaki riders are graduates of the Ryan Villopoto "School of off track Racing".
KurtJ99
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5/25/2017 2:12pm
Crush wrote:
Say you're Jmart, going for the title, Forkner is a rival. Our bikes have issues around the same spot but I persist as I SHOULD, and...
Say you're Jmart, going for the title, Forkner is a rival. Our bikes have issues around the same spot but I persist as I SHOULD, and it dies, DNF.

Forkner instead bee-lines it, saving himself any opportunity for the problem to deteriorate to a DNF, and also gaining a minute advantage in TOTAL race time... (Frame it how you want, this is what it is)

Now if Forkner beats me by anything less than 10 points, the spread from 10th to 20th, the difference in how he finished, then I'm a fucking angry Minnesotan midget and screaming blue murder for my old bike.

People still rant about Dungey's fuel/chain/efi, you guys think they won't be bummed about this? No ifs or butts, add the time back on. The other teams are mental for not protesting a title threat and the officials missed the boat, as always.
^^^ This. Voice of fn clarity.

If it's a "safety" issue then take the DNF if you feel the need to not continue on the track to return to the mechanics area. If the bike expires before you get to the mechanic that's too bad.
GreaseMeter
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5/25/2017 3:17pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I've already e-mailed your parents. I'll expect your essays on this matter to be completed by the end of the week.
Jrewing wrote:
TeamGreen, how often do you drink and post?

As a repeat offender myself, I say keep
drinking
TeamGreen wrote:
Rarely; but, when I do...I drink Don Julio. 1942. Thank you. You'll have to forgive me, I'm burdened with reading and understanding the rules and the...
Rarely; but, when I do...I drink Don Julio. 1942. Thank you.

You'll have to forgive me, I'm burdened with reading and understanding the rules and the intent of words like "safest" and "safely".

But, that's just me.
There are 3 types of tequila drinkers. People that drink shitty tequila, people that drink tequila like wienies (salt, lime) and people that drink tequila to show off money they don't have. Never be the latter bro.
DanDunes818
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Portland, OR US
5/26/2017 12:44am
I interviewed Austin after the race and he explained that an AMA / MXSports guy made him wait in the mechanics area for quite a while...
I interviewed Austin after the race and he explained that an AMA / MXSports guy made him wait in the mechanics area for quite a while waiting for everyone to go by. Like ML said earlier in this thread, I thought he was way further back after the incident, but I understand people questioning it.

Crush wrote:
Still BS. Even if the official made him wait, it's another example of the on the fly bs that riddles this sport. IF you let him...
Still BS. Even if the official made him wait, it's another example of the on the fly bs that riddles this sport.

IF you let him come back bee line, the ONLY correct way to handle it, is to add the section time back on, AFTER the fact in a review situation.... and possible, a discretionary penalty for not following the track... cause who's to say Jmart's bike wouldn't have made it back if it only had to go another 100 metres from the first time he heard it bog...
I've had issues with a lot of the calls throughout the year, but I didn't have an issue with the way this played out. For all we know, they let him wait for a minute. It sounded like it was a while.

I just don't think sending him back through the infield to reenter where he left was the best play here.
JSmith
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5/26/2017 6:13am
I listened to the podcast. They stated he cut off about 40-45 seconds of track at race pace. Probably much longer with a sputtering bike. I think it is only fair to administer a penalty for the track cutting.
Crush
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5/26/2017 7:24am
I interviewed Austin after the race and he explained that an AMA / MXSports guy made him wait in the mechanics area for quite a while...
I interviewed Austin after the race and he explained that an AMA / MXSports guy made him wait in the mechanics area for quite a while waiting for everyone to go by. Like ML said earlier in this thread, I thought he was way further back after the incident, but I understand people questioning it.

Crush wrote:
Still BS. Even if the official made him wait, it's another example of the on the fly bs that riddles this sport. IF you let him...
Still BS. Even if the official made him wait, it's another example of the on the fly bs that riddles this sport.

IF you let him come back bee line, the ONLY correct way to handle it, is to add the section time back on, AFTER the fact in a review situation.... and possible, a discretionary penalty for not following the track... cause who's to say Jmart's bike wouldn't have made it back if it only had to go another 100 metres from the first time he heard it bog...
I've had issues with a lot of the calls throughout the year, but I didn't have an issue with the way this played out. For all...
I've had issues with a lot of the calls throughout the year, but I didn't have an issue with the way this played out. For all we know, they let him wait for a minute. It sounded like it was a while.

I just don't think sending him back through the infield to reenter where he left was the best play here.
Sure. So add all the time he saved on to his total race time, figure out where that puts him, insert him there, and then consider a penalty for cutting the track back to the mechanics area. If Jmart felt a flinch of the bike at turn 2 and turned around, who's to say he doesn't DNF.

I honestly can't even begin to understand how anyone would be ok with how this, or most other rulings are officiated in MX and SX. It's so rare it's handled properly. It fucking drives me nuts that this sport, that has millions invested from multiple parties, can't put together some consistent, and professional ruling. It looks like a shit show. How does Geico, the sponsor, get the feedback that one knowing their star rider may end up on the shit stick of this and the explanation is "well we held him back for quite a while"... that sounds pretty fucking professional doesn't it.

More than that, I don't get these teams who constantly let their contracted professionals take it in the arse with all the flipant rulings without causing a fucking ruckus.

I'd never pay a contractor hundreds of thousands of dollars and then let the comp get away with anything other than what's in the rule book. It's ridiculous.
yak651
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5/26/2017 7:40am
I just don't understand why someone has to protest for rule to be enforced. Either a rule was broken or it wasn't.
Crush
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5/26/2017 7:51am
yak651 wrote:
I just don't understand why someone has to protest for rule to be enforced. Either a rule was broken or it wasn't.
You'd think it'd be that easy. There's always a fucking oddity to every situation in this sport it seems!
PRM31
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5/26/2017 8:03am
Why did he feel it necessary to leave the track and head straight to where his mechanic was?

I cannot think of a single reason to justify that. If there was a safety issue, bike was going to quit, whatever, you have to take the DNF.
wreckitrandy
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5/26/2017 8:08am
peelout wrote:
some of you dorks are the same old lady that watches Tiger misplace his ball on a penalty and call in to the PGA to bitch...
some of you dorks are the same old lady that watches Tiger misplace his ball on a penalty and call in to the PGA to bitch about it, demanding a penalty
Well peely, we can't all be in the cool kid club. Some of us have to stand on the curb and wave while y'all wheelie by.
mb60
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5/26/2017 8:27am
Does it surprise anybody that the AMA is clueless once again ? I mean really what is the purpose of these clowns even being involved in this sport ?
5/26/2017 10:32am
peelout wrote:
some of you dorks are the same old lady that watches Tiger misplace his ball on a penalty and call in to the PGA to bitch...
some of you dorks are the same old lady that watches Tiger misplace his ball on a penalty and call in to the PGA to bitch about it, demanding a penalty
It's goddamn asinine that golf will let viewers call in or e-mail perceived rules infractions, then turn around and IMPOSE THE PENALTIES, maybe even the next day!

Hell, I've been trying to call balls and strikes from the stands for years, in near real time, and it's had no effect at all. Nothin'.

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