Forkner track cutting

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5/22/2017 3:22 AM

Have you guys listened to the RacerX wrap up?

WTF. Seriously. This sport is the bush-eeeeeee-est of leagues.

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Cheers, Crush
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5/22/2017 3:35 AM

What was said?

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5/22/2017 4:01 AM

I guess first moto, right at the start, his bike is no good. Electrical gremlin.

Goes up the up-hill rollers... bike splutters. Back down the hill and bee-lines to the mechanic's area, get's fixed, and then enters back at the finish line.

So lap wise, at least half a lap cut, and time-wise, with a spluttering bike, probably a minute saved, which means his first moto 11th is probably a 20th... IF not a DNF, cause fuck knows if it'd even have made it to the mechanics area.

Seriously. Ridiculous.

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Cheers, Crush
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5/22/2017 4:02 AM

Where can i listen? Its not on youtube.

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5/22/2017 4:24 AM

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5/22/2017 6:32 AM

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Cheers, Crush
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5/22/2017 6:35 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/22/2017 6:38 AM

I think the reason they didn't ping him was because he still was dead-last, over half a lap down on the next guy when he did re-enter the race.

The team could also argue a safety issue based off the condition of the bike.

It's not the first time I've seen a rider go straight to the mechanics area from other sections of the track.

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5/22/2017 6:37 AM

So apparently, if nobody protests, no problem?

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5/22/2017 6:43 AM

Cutting half a lap out is bad. Safety concern or not. This is still a race. If it's too unsafe to re-enter where you left then it should just be a DNF.

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5/22/2017 6:44 AM

ML512 wrote:

I think the reason they didn't ping him was because he still was dead-last, over half a lap down on the next guy when he did re-enter the race.

The team could also argue a safety issue based off the condition of the bike.

It's not the first time I've seen a rider go straight to the mechanics area from other sections of the track.

Take exception to any safety arguement, if they (the rider or team) consider it a safety issue he should be pulling off the track immediately and parking it.

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5/22/2017 6:45 AM

ML512 wrote:

I think the reason they didn't ping him was because he still was dead-last, over half a lap down on the next guy when he did re-enter the race.

The team could also argue a safety issue based off the condition of the bike.

It's not the first time I've seen a rider go straight to the mechanics area from other sections of the track.

Andy_Greenney wrote:

Take exception to any safety arguement, if they (the rider or team) consider it a safety issue he should be pulling off the track immediately and parking it.

I'm just saying, the team could argue it as response, not saying it's the winning fact.

I didn't hear of any teams placing a protest, so it somewhat shows that the other riders and competing teams didn't view it as that bad.

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5/22/2017 6:49 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/22/2017 6:51 AM

I wasn't arguing with you as you are right the team probably would respond with that arguement, just saying in reality it's a BS arguement haha. The bike can be to dangerous to complete a whole lap but not 3/4 or 1/2 a lap...

As for the incident, if he was dead last and then some, I can't see who would have a problem

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5/22/2017 6:54 AM

Crush wrote:

I guess first moto, right at the start, his bike is no good. Electrical gremlin.

Goes up the up-hill rollers... bike splutters. Back down the hill and bee-lines to the mechanic's area, get's fixed, and then enters back at the finish line.

So lap wise, at least half a lap cut, and time-wise, with a spluttering bike, probably a minute saved, which means his first moto 11th is probably a 20th... IF not a DNF, cause fuck knows if it'd even have made it to the mechanics area.

Seriously. Ridiculous.

Exit the track safely, re-enter safely and not gain any positions are the rules, correct? If those are the rules then what did he do that was wrong? I would understand if he re-entered anywhere but last place.

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5/22/2017 6:59 AM

ML512 wrote:

I think the reason they didn't ping him was because he still was dead-last, over half a lap down on the next guy when he did re-enter the race.

The team could also argue a safety issue based off the condition of the bike.

It's not the first time I've seen a rider go straight to the mechanics area from other sections of the track.

Regardless of whether he was last or not. He still gained a huge amount of time. He should have been a minute further back in last

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5/22/2017 7:15 AM

agn5009 wrote:

Exit the track safely, re-enter safely and not gain any positions are the rules, correct? If those are the rules then what did he do that was wrong? I would understand if he re-entered anywhere but last place.

Do the rules state gain position or time, or both? Genuine question.
If it's only position there would be no problem with someone cutting most of the first lap after a first turn pile up to join the back of the pack.

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5/22/2017 7:45 AM

5. Course Cutting

a. Leaving the designated race course is forbidden. A rider must make every effort to stay on course at all times. The penalty for course cutting to gain an advantage will be the loss of finishing positions or a disqualification.

b. A rider forced off the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest safe point. While off the course the rider may not accelerate in an unsafe manner or attempt to gain an advantage. If a rider accelerates while off the course or cuts large amounts of the race course, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.

c. An advantage is not defined by the race position.

I'm a fan of Forkner, but it seems pretty clear that according to the rules he did indeed gain an advantage. Lucky nobody complained I guess.

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5/22/2017 7:51 AM

ProbablyDave wrote:

5. Course Cutting

a. Leaving the designated race course is forbidden. A rider must make every effort to stay on course at all times. The penalty for course cutting to gain an advantage will be the loss of finishing positions or a disqualification.

b. A rider forced off the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest safe point. While off the course the rider may not accelerate in an unsafe manner or attempt to gain an advantage. If a rider accelerates while off the course or cuts large amounts of the race course, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.

c. An advantage is not defined by the race position.

I'm a fan of Forkner, but it seems pretty clear that according to the rules he did indeed gain an advantage. Lucky nobody complained I guess.

Just playing devil's advocate, but 5a seems to make the case for exiting the course with the intent to gain advantage. Forkner left the track to get to the mechanic's area to fix the bike. Not with the intent to cut a section of track out.

Ambiguity in the rulebook is never a good thing. But it's what we have.

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5/22/2017 7:57 AM

It doesn't matter to me what he did but I'm sure it matters to the guys that finished 12-21st.

I enjoyed seeing him work his way up through the pack but turns out he should have been DQed

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5/22/2017 8:00 AM

If it was a privateer rider they would have been DQd IMO.

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5/22/2017 8:04 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/22/2017 8:04 AM

ProbablyDave wrote:

5. Course Cutting

a. Leaving the designated race course is forbidden. A rider must make every effort to stay on course at all times. The penalty for course cutting to gain an advantage will be the loss of finishing positions or a disqualification.

b. A rider forced off the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest safe point. While off the course the rider may not accelerate in an unsafe manner or attempt to gain an advantage. If a rider accelerates while off the course or cuts large amounts of the race course, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.

c. An advantage is not defined by the race position.

I'm a fan of Forkner, but it seems pretty clear that according to the rules he did indeed gain an advantage. Lucky nobody complained I guess.

IWreckALot wrote:

Just playing devil's advocate, but 5a seems to make the case for exiting the course with the intent to gain advantage. Forkner left the track to get to the mechanic's area to fix the bike. Not with the intent to cut a section of track out.

Ambiguity in the rulebook is never a good thing. But it's what we have.

Yeah, the rule book seems pretty vague in a lot of places. 5a could be clarified way more:

"The penalty for course cutting [in order] to gain an advantage will be the loss of finishing positions or a disqualification."

But are they even referring to intent? I dunno. But with this change it still looks bad. 5b defines an advantage as cutting a large amount of the race track. If an advantage is defined that way, Forkner did indeed intend to gain an advantage because he intended to cut a large amount of the track.

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5/22/2017 8:09 AM

Who knows how much of the 3rd segment he missed, plus all of the 4th segment.

Photo

Photo

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5/22/2017 8:28 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/22/2017 8:29 AM

ML512 wrote:

I think the reason they didn't ping him was because he still was dead-last, over half a lap down on the next guy when he did re-enter the race.

The team could also argue a safety issue based off the condition of the bike.

It's not the first time I've seen a rider go straight to the mechanics area from other sections of the track.

How can that possibly be ok when the time benefit would have been close to a minute?!

Fine. Cut the track, be safe. Get docked a minute. Simple as that.

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Cheers, Crush
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5/22/2017 8:51 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/22/2017 8:52 AM

some of you dorks are the same old lady that watches Tiger misplace his ball on a penalty and call in to the PGA to bitch about it, demanding a penalty

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5/22/2017 8:57 AM

Photo
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United States of America

5/22/2017 9:02 AM

peelout wrote:

some of you dorks are the same old lady that watches Tiger misplace his ball on a penalty and call in to the PGA to bitch about it, demanding a penalty

Damn, I swear, Peely steals my thoughts! (And, rumor has it...he killed Kenny!)

The there's this: IF his bike was barely running...and he manages to get back to the mechanics area SAFELY...
Then they fix the bike.
THE SAFEST PLACE TO RE-ENTER THE TRACK IS RIGHT THERE AT THE MECHANIC'S AREA.

But, I could be wrong.

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

5/22/2017 9:12 AM

ML512 wrote:

I think the reason they didn't ping him was because he still was dead-last, over half a lap down on the next guy when he did re-enter the race.

The team could also argue a safety issue based off the condition of the bike.

It's not the first time I've seen a rider go straight to the mechanics area from other sections of the track.

Crush wrote:

How can that possibly be ok when the time benefit would have been close to a minute?!

Fine. Cut the track, be safe. Get docked a minute. Simple as that.

Yes. AMA letting the factory teams and their stars do whatever they want as long as no other factory team stinks up the air about it. Ive always loved the team spotters sprinkled around the track while no one else can get near those same areas.

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5/22/2017 9:18 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/22/2017 9:22 AM

Wait a minute.

Half the fucking planet went nuts about Marvin giving Dungey 3 points, the other lost their shit about Savatgy's New York penalty... and now this is just ok despite being far more blatant.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be safe, but it should be a fucking no-brainer that the minute plus he saved should be added to his total race time. Otherwise, when do we start and stop administering the rules then fuck-os?

If I lost a title or an overall bonus position to Forkner by a couple points (up to 10!!!) at the end of the year, i'd be dirty.

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Cheers, Crush
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5/22/2017 9:19 AM

ML512 wrote:

I think the reason they didn't ping him was because he still was dead-last, over half a lap down on the next guy when he did re-enter the race.

The team could also argue a safety issue based off the condition of the bike.

It's not the first time I've seen a rider go straight to the mechanics area from other sections of the track.

Crush wrote:

How can that possibly be ok when the time benefit would have been close to a minute?!

Fine. Cut the track, be safe. Get docked a minute. Simple as that.

brightlights wrote:

Yes. AMA letting the factory teams and their stars do whatever they want as long as no other factory team stinks up the air about it. Ive always loved the team spotters sprinkled around the track while no one else can get near those same areas.

Good point on the spotters. I've always thought the same thing. So is it cool for every privateer to show up with their parents, uncles, cousins and neighbors in team shirts and have them spread around the track?? It's definitely an advantage to be getting that kind of feedback. I've seen teams talk about the spotters picking out lines for riders and providing feedback on what the other guys are doing. Just nix it, it's not fair to everyone on the gate.

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5/22/2017 9:29 AM

ML512 wrote:

I think the reason they didn't ping him was because he still was dead-last, over half a lap down on the next guy when he did re-enter the race.

The team could also argue a safety issue based off the condition of the bike.

It's not the first time I've seen a rider go straight to the mechanics area from other sections of the track.

Crush wrote:

How can that possibly be ok when the time benefit would have been close to a minute?!

Fine. Cut the track, be safe. Get docked a minute. Simple as that.

I didn't say it was okay, I was just stating why they probably didn't make a big deal of it.

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5/22/2017 9:32 AM

Crush wrote:

Wait a minute.

Half the fucking planet went nuts about Marvin giving Dungey 3 points, the other lost their shit about Savatgy's New York penalty... and now this is just ok despite being far more blatant.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be safe, but it should be a fucking no-brainer that the minute plus he saved should be added to his total race time. Otherwise, when do we start and stop administering the rules then fuck-os?

If I lost a title or an overall bonus position to Forkner by a couple points (up to 10!!!) at the end of the year, i'd be dirty.

The argument you present about gaining a half of lap/ 1 minute. It can also be argued that the gap between him and the rider in front of him at the time he left the track to the time he reentered the track was not reduced by one minute, ergo did not gain advantage. Lots of ways to evaluate things,
Just saying

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