For Those Of Us Who Have Never Raced LL

crt32
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Location
Oklahoma City, OK US
If you raced there what is the track like? It looks super rutty, but it also looks fairly slow compared to most local and national tracks. Is that because of TV or is it actually slower? The jumps look fairly simple. To me it looks like training in the deepest ruts you can and rutted straights would be the best. But all the training facilities seem to have larger jumps, faster speeds. How is it on a 125 vs 450? Give us slow riders the details of what its like.
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Meister
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Canton, OH US
8/2/2022 7:35pm
It was better 22 years ago. Wasn't such a 4 stroke slot car track.
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5
8/2/2022 7:37pm
I’ve never raced it but have several buddies who race it every year. They all say it’s as rough a track as you can ride but the ruts are what gets you. They never end. Would love to walk the track after the day is over.
langhammx
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Santa Clarita, CA US
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8/2/2022 7:40pm
Haven’t been back since ‘07, but the track has always been way over-rated. The facility and experience is fantastic, but the track itself is really nothing to write home about.
Although, I was pretty impressed with the track when they raced the nationals there during COVID. The riders weren’t complaining either.
But I’d agree with you after watching today, the speeds are definitely slower than normal, the new dirt, after the flood seems to be even softer and ruts are deeper than I remember.
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1
8/2/2022 7:41pm
langhammx wrote:
Haven’t been back since ‘07, but the track has always been way over-rated. The facility and experience is fantastic, but the track itself is really nothing...
Haven’t been back since ‘07, but the track has always been way over-rated. The facility and experience is fantastic, but the track itself is really nothing to write home about.
Although, I was pretty impressed with the track when they raced the nationals there during COVID. The riders weren’t complaining either.
But I’d agree with you after watching today, the speeds are definitely slower than normal, the new dirt, after the flood seems to be even softer and ruts are deeper than I remember.
On the broadcast they were saying the dirt was much harder and slicker than normal. Hard to tell from
Tv.
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The Shop

langhammx
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8/2/2022 7:47pm
On the broadcast they were saying the dirt was much harder and slicker than normal. Hard to tell from
Tv.
Interesting, I missed that.
I saw pics of the facility after the flood and the amount of sand that had accumulated on the track area. Maybe they pushed it off the track. But hard pack dirt doesn’t normally develop ruts like we saw today. I’ll ask Keefer what he thinks of the dirt, he’s been there a few times.
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8/2/2022 7:58pm
On the broadcast they were saying the dirt was much harder and slicker than normal. Hard to tell from
Tv.
langhammx wrote:
Interesting, I missed that. I saw pics of the facility after the flood and the amount of sand that had accumulated on the track area. Maybe...
Interesting, I missed that.
I saw pics of the facility after the flood and the amount of sand that had accumulated on the track area. Maybe they pushed it off the track. But hard pack dirt doesn’t normally develop ruts like we saw today. I’ll ask Keefer what he thinks of the dirt, he’s been there a few times.
Pass what keefer says along please. I am curious. I had it on the tv all day and they mentioned it a few times. I agree it definitely didn’t look hard packed.
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langhammx
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8/2/2022 7:59pm
Pass what keefer says along please. I am curious. I had it on the tv all day and they mentioned it a few times. I agree...
Pass what keefer says along please. I am curious. I had it on the tv all day and they mentioned it a few times. I agree it definitely didn’t look hard packed.
Will do
1
8/2/2022 8:17pm
The track is very narrow in most sections. There isn’t any elevation change but there are some good split sections.

The track is prepped and filled pretty deep but then it gets overridden through most of the day. Doesn’t develop good lines like a pro race, but more amateur lines that just get chewed up more and more all day. Think a lot of really long slow inside ruts. If you have a late day moto, now you’re looking at a really overridden track with shadows obscuring square edge bumps.

The track also has a bit of fine sand mixed into some sections, but it almost makes it slippery or gives an awkward feel since the rest of the track is on such a hard base.

Since the track is so narrow the start plays a huge role. Can be tough to make passes on this track and if you don’t start right with your main competition it’s hard to ever catch up because there will be a huge gap right off the bat
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cable
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Rockford, MI US
8/2/2022 8:25pm
watch closely and ask yourself if you could take your hand off anywhere to pull a tearoff, besides a jump. there is no rest.
OR Racer46
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Eagle Point, OR US
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8/2/2022 9:40pm
I hate the track. And the weather . But its a great event
1
8/3/2022 7:36am
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes race on it there's chop everywhere, even where you wouldn't normally get it if it was only big bikes racing, which makes it v hard to find any kind of flow.

I've never ridden ruts quite like LL - there are areas where you choose a rut and stick with it for 3 turns and 2 straights. Then the heat/humidity is mental (I live in CO and rarely see humidity above 40%) so that almost killed me before the gate even dropped. Much fun though and an experience I'll never forget.

Cheers
Simon
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motomike137
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Fenton, MI US
8/3/2022 7:42am
The event is a bucket list item for anyone that loves the sport. The best thing I can say about the track is that it is the same for everyone. If you are going there to race create a rut tack in a field and get real good at it Wink
2
8/3/2022 8:05am
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes...
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes race on it there's chop everywhere, even where you wouldn't normally get it if it was only big bikes racing, which makes it v hard to find any kind of flow.

I've never ridden ruts quite like LL - there are areas where you choose a rut and stick with it for 3 turns and 2 straights. Then the heat/humidity is mental (I live in CO and rarely see humidity above 40%) so that almost killed me before the gate even dropped. Much fun though and an experience I'll never forget.

Cheers
Simon
Good break down on the track. High heat and extreme humidity is my favorite weather.
1
2
Markee
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8/3/2022 1:10pm
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes...
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes race on it there's chop everywhere, even where you wouldn't normally get it if it was only big bikes racing, which makes it v hard to find any kind of flow.

I've never ridden ruts quite like LL - there are areas where you choose a rut and stick with it for 3 turns and 2 straights. Then the heat/humidity is mental (I live in CO and rarely see humidity above 40%) so that almost killed me before the gate even dropped. Much fun though and an experience I'll never forget.

Cheers
Simon
Good break down on the track. High heat and extreme humidity is my favorite weather.
May I ask, WTF is wrong with you?
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2
lumpy790
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York, SC US
8/3/2022 1:23pm Edited Date/Time 8/3/2022 1:25pm
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes...
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes race on it there's chop everywhere, even where you wouldn't normally get it if it was only big bikes racing, which makes it v hard to find any kind of flow.

I've never ridden ruts quite like LL - there are areas where you choose a rut and stick with it for 3 turns and 2 straights. Then the heat/humidity is mental (I live in CO and rarely see humidity above 40%) so that almost killed me before the gate even dropped. Much fun though and an experience I'll never forget.

Cheers
Simon
Good break down on the track. High heat and extreme humidity is my favorite weather.
Agree …. Sleepy Hollow in PA used to get ruts like that so racing there was good rut experience for Lorettas.

Going WFO through those ruts is what wins LL championships. If you have to think about it you just lost.
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MotofactioN
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655
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6/25/2020
Location
Gloucester, VA US
8/3/2022 1:24pm
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes...
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes race on it there's chop everywhere, even where you wouldn't normally get it if it was only big bikes racing, which makes it v hard to find any kind of flow.

I've never ridden ruts quite like LL - there are areas where you choose a rut and stick with it for 3 turns and 2 straights. Then the heat/humidity is mental (I live in CO and rarely see humidity above 40%) so that almost killed me before the gate even dropped. Much fun though and an experience I'll never forget.

Cheers
Simon
Good break down on the track. High heat and extreme humidity is my favorite weather.
I’m with ya man. Nothing like riding in the mid summer, 95+ degrees, and Virginia humidity. Complainers gonna complain.
1
lumpy790
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York, SC US
8/3/2022 1:27pm
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes...
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes race on it there's chop everywhere, even where you wouldn't normally get it if it was only big bikes racing, which makes it v hard to find any kind of flow.

I've never ridden ruts quite like LL - there are areas where you choose a rut and stick with it for 3 turns and 2 straights. Then the heat/humidity is mental (I live in CO and rarely see humidity above 40%) so that almost killed me before the gate even dropped. Much fun though and an experience I'll never forget.

Cheers
Simon
Good break down on the track. High heat and extreme humidity is my favorite weather.
Markee wrote:
May I ask, WTF is wrong with you?
Guessing you haven’t ever been there have you?
NP301
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Keene, NH US
8/3/2022 1:46pm
It's an interesting track, its soft enough to rut up but traction can be difficult depending on where you are. Was definitely a learning experience for me. When I used to race I would get flustered at big events and unfortunately(with multiple people attending telling me I didn't ride to my fullest protentional) I got a lot of arm pump, some bike failure and lots of fun. I am however very glad I got to experience it, my only regret was not riding like it was the back yard. I remember having to take my goggles off one motto because they kept fogging up due to the excess sweat. Anyways here is a clip from 2011.
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JustMX
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Location
TN US
8/3/2022 2:23pm
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes...
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes race on it there's chop everywhere, even where you wouldn't normally get it if it was only big bikes racing, which makes it v hard to find any kind of flow.

I've never ridden ruts quite like LL - there are areas where you choose a rut and stick with it for 3 turns and 2 straights. Then the heat/humidity is mental (I live in CO and rarely see humidity above 40%) so that almost killed me before the gate even dropped. Much fun though and an experience I'll never forget.

Cheers
Simon
Good break down on the track. High heat and extreme humidity is my favorite weather.
Markee wrote:
May I ask, WTF is wrong with you?
pro wonders off sometimes into the outer realms, but stop just a moment in your contemplation of his post and you will realize you are asking the wrong question.

the correct one to ask is

"What is right with you, my moto brother?"

seek the answer to that and you will meld into oneness with the pro125 legend
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lumpy790
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York, SC US
8/3/2022 2:26pm
At Lorettas you either seem to have good luck … or bad luck there is no in between.
JustMX
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Location
TN US
8/3/2022 2:49pm
crt32 wrote:
If you raced there what is the track like? It looks super rutty, but it also looks fairly slow compared to most local and national tracks...
If you raced there what is the track like? It looks super rutty, but it also looks fairly slow compared to most local and national tracks. Is that because of TV or is it actually slower? The jumps look fairly simple. To me it looks like training in the deepest ruts you can and rutted straights would be the best. But all the training facilities seem to have larger jumps, faster speeds. How is it on a 125 vs 450? Give us slow riders the details of what its like.
Never raced there but I was on the track crew as a dozer/water truck driver for about 7 years.up until about 2015.

There is nothing really spectacular about the track. the 10 commandments have always been tough and hard to get a rhythm through. The finish line section and the whoops after it where you turn as you go through was always tough, and then the put a tunnel in, which made it even tougher.

They used to put a lot of sawdust down, but in recent years have gone more with sand, which a think is much better and forms different kinds of bumps and ruts and doesn't get as slick when watered.

They will work on different sections as the days go on. I would say every area of the track will get either plowed or dozed about every 3 or 5 motos, with special attention given to kickers that may develop and they will try to fix the worst rutted sections before a 50cc and 65cc classes.

The big difference between LLs and most other racing is that every class has 40 riders, and they have all gone through a tough process to be there, so with few exceptions there are not a lot of slotches. because of this more of the track gets used and there are optional lines that form that you wouldn't normally see. RIders that have raced there know this and if they have a problem like a poor start or early fall they utilize them more efficiently than LL rookies.

You never get a break. if you let off or make a mistake there are 5 guys close to your speed around you that will take advantage of it. If you don't prepare for the longer motos and the stifling heat and humidity you will go from a solid top ten to outside the top 20 in the last 5 minutes.

It will rain at least one day. Racing will continue. it may rain every day. Racing will continue.

People that roll in for their first time will think that the track is simple. No big booters or gap jumps. almost everything there can be jumped by a decent 85cc rider. but the track, the heat, and the competition will wear you down and absolutely kick your ass.
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ElliotB16
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1061
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6/10/2019
Location
Cairo, GA US
8/3/2022 3:09pm
Looks like the big bikes have outgrown the track, Lots of tip toing around the track.
1
8/3/2022 4:59pm
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes...
It's pretty slow and rather tight on a big bike, but the toughest thing is the ruts and the odd bumps. Because all sizes of bikes race on it there's chop everywhere, even where you wouldn't normally get it if it was only big bikes racing, which makes it v hard to find any kind of flow.

I've never ridden ruts quite like LL - there are areas where you choose a rut and stick with it for 3 turns and 2 straights. Then the heat/humidity is mental (I live in CO and rarely see humidity above 40%) so that almost killed me before the gate even dropped. Much fun though and an experience I'll never forget.

Cheers
Simon
Good break down on the track. High heat and extreme humidity is my favorite weather.
I’m with ya man. Nothing like riding in the mid summer, 95+ degrees, and Virginia humidity. Complainers gonna complain.
Oh hell Yeah Virginia has enjoyable heat too. Higher the humidity and dew point the more enjoyable. Once this yard bird is done frying. I,ll be in a sauna we found some tricks to get up to 230. The young guys say how can you handle the heat so long. I tell them drop and give me 20 and I,ll tell ya. I made some crap up about the monks. Or some of it is true. They reverse there minds and say it’s so cold in here. You must concentrate while doing this. You can give yourself goose bumps when your in 200+ sauna. Shit LL heat is nothing I would b doing jumping jacks , running in place and doing push-ups in my gear in the sun b4 my moto.
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TXDirt
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7399
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7/29/2015
Location
Plano, TX US
8/3/2022 6:09pm Edited Date/Time 8/3/2022 6:09pm
Track was at its peak from about 1992-1999

I remember they would change the direction each year. The finish line section was absolutely gnarly no matter the direction.

It’s been tamed way way down.

Like others have said, it’s a tough track, gritty competition, tons of sponsors on hand, insane heat, humidity, rain, etc.

Fun times….
dboivin
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2943
Joined
5/19/2010
Location
Saginaw, MI US
8/3/2022 6:58pm Edited Date/Time 8/3/2022 6:59pm
have been there many times. my struggle was the humid heat...i could never adjust to it. always a struggle. the track is sneaky tough. you look at it and think its pretty plain....then your moto comes up and you struggle bus it the whole moto if yer a good consistent rider you will always rise to the top unless you have a bout of bad luck. getting 3 good motos is hardest part.

the best part about that track is its very fair
Regis
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Gonzales, LA US
Fantasy
292nd
8/3/2022 7:13pm
Being from so cal, the weather was almost unbelievable. There was no way to replicate it back home to be ready for it.

The ruts and wood chips were also a challenge.
Meister
Posts
2553
Joined
3/21/2013
Location
Canton, OH US
8/3/2022 7:38pm
Anyone hear weege even call it a slot car track today?

I'm with txdirt tho. Track used to be way better.

I also love riding in the heat.
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