For The Record Alta IS Legal For AMA Amateur Competition 2018

Zoom
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3/30/2018 12:36pm Edited Date/Time 3/30/2018 12:53pm
Just to be clear....

Alta is legal for AMA Amateur competition in an "Open cc" class for 2018. It's up to the promoter on whether or not they decide to follow this rule. Freestone followed this rule for the James Stewart Spring Championship. There were a few riders hoping their 2018 MXR models where delivered in time, but they ended up a couple of days late, or else they would have been raced there.

While MX Sports has decided to not let E bikes (Alta) in this year for the AMA Amateur Championship at Loretta Lynns, they will be doing their due diligence along with testing and research. My guess is that they will allow them next year at the Ranch. The foot is in the door, and it will be wide open soon.
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milliebays
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3/30/2018 12:49pm
there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things.

right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta knew or should have known of the increased risk of collision due to inherent expectation to be able to hear vehicles of same type operated in same environment (4 strokes), and Alta had the means to apply reasonable measures to increase awareness of location and trajectory of their electric vehicles to a reasonable degree"

someones gonna hit a kid crossing the track or something.
Jake_CR250R
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3/30/2018 12:53pm Edited Date/Time 3/30/2018 12:54pm
I wonder what AMA and Mx Sports "research" consists of
3/30/2018 1:28pm
milliebays wrote:
there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things. right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta...
there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things.

right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta knew or should have known of the increased risk of collision due to inherent expectation to be able to hear vehicles of same type operated in same environment (4 strokes), and Alta had the means to apply reasonable measures to increase awareness of location and trajectory of their electric vehicles to a reasonable degree"

someones gonna hit a kid crossing the track or something.
Right, because everyone that races motocross is blind or too dumb to look at the track before they cross it... I thought we saved that for the flaggers in arenacross?
p0wn
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3/30/2018 1:33pm
milliebays wrote:
there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things. right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta...
there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things.

right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta knew or should have known of the increased risk of collision due to inherent expectation to be able to hear vehicles of same type operated in same environment (4 strokes), and Alta had the means to apply reasonable measures to increase awareness of location and trajectory of their electric vehicles to a reasonable degree"

someones gonna hit a kid crossing the track or something.
Classic. Making up a problem that doesn't exist. You should be in politics! Hell - what are the next lotto numbers? What is the meaning of life? Can you also talk to the spirit world? Ask JFK what it was like to bang Marilyn Monroe and let us know!

The Shop

avidchimp
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3/30/2018 1:37pm Edited Date/Time 4/1/2018 8:03am
milliebays wrote:
there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things. right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta...
there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things.

right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta knew or should have known of the increased risk of collision due to inherent expectation to be able to hear vehicles of same type operated in same environment (4 strokes), and Alta had the means to apply reasonable measures to increase awareness of location and trajectory of their electric vehicles to a reasonable degree"

someones gonna hit a kid crossing the track or something.
You must be trolling...

I live in the electric car capital of the world, and if what you say was true all hell would be breaking loose.

Nice cast though...
JB 19
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3/30/2018 1:37pm
milliebays wrote:
there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things. right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta...
there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things.

right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta knew or should have known of the increased risk of collision due to inherent expectation to be able to hear vehicles of same type operated in same environment (4 strokes), and Alta had the means to apply reasonable measures to increase awareness of location and trajectory of their electric vehicles to a reasonable degree"

someones gonna hit a kid crossing the track or something.
How about all the people who get hit by "silent" cars in urban areas? I can just see a court room all looking at each thinking, wait a minute, so you say this thing is TOO quiet? Huh

kage173
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3/30/2018 1:41pm
Zoom wrote:
Just to be clear.... Alta is legal for AMA Amateur competition in an "Open cc" class for 2018. It's up to the promoter on whether or...
Just to be clear....

Alta is legal for AMA Amateur competition in an "Open cc" class for 2018. It's up to the promoter on whether or not they decide to follow this rule. Freestone followed this rule for the James Stewart Spring Championship. There were a few riders hoping their 2018 MXR models where delivered in time, but they ended up a couple of days late, or else they would have been raced there.

While MX Sports has decided to not let E bikes (Alta) in this year for the AMA Amateur Championship at Loretta Lynns, they will be doing their due diligence along with testing and research. My guess is that they will allow them next year at the Ranch. The foot is in the door, and it will be wide open soon.
Thanks for sharing. My opinion is that Alta is going to change the industry forever and for the better.
milliebays
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3/30/2018 4:41pm
all you people that think i'm trolling. I don't have an agenda or a side. Just making a prediction. Scoff away.
3/30/2018 10:20pm Edited Date/Time 3/30/2018 10:21pm
I wonder what AMA and Mx Sports "research" consists of
It is spelled "re$earch" in this case.

Alta has gotta pay to play.
kkawboy14
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3/31/2018 3:42am
1) those bikes aren’t silent
2) they already make noise
3) they just aren’t as noisy as 4 strokes
racerx217
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3/31/2018 12:17pm
In the isle of man and pikes peak they made them run with speakers emitting some sort of sound.
Tbteam
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3/31/2018 12:49pm
I love the quiet riding idea, but races are for machines of “like kind”. I don’t think that electric/gas engines should race together, but that’s just an opinion.

Please note the “just an opinion” part.
moto0852
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3/31/2018 1:47pm
The fact they ARE AMA legal is what makes it worse. This is Davey Coombs and MXsports just saying "we don't care we are not running them".

I've always thought of DC and the cheerleader for the sport but this his actions are depressing and he reasoning flawed.
3/31/2018 1:55pm
p0wn wrote:
Classic. Making up a problem that doesn't exist. You should be in politics! Hell - what are the next lotto numbers? What is the meaning of...
Classic. Making up a problem that doesn't exist. You should be in politics! Hell - what are the next lotto numbers? What is the meaning of life? Can you also talk to the spirit world? Ask JFK what it was like to bang Marilyn Monroe and let us know!

FYI, JFK Did bang Marilyn Monroe...
3/31/2018 4:48pm Edited Date/Time 3/31/2018 4:50pm
moto0852 wrote:
The fact they ARE AMA legal is what makes it worse. This is Davey Coombs and MXsports just saying "we don't care we are not running...
The fact they ARE AMA legal is what makes it worse. This is Davey Coombs and MXsports just saying "we don't care we are not running them".

I've always thought of DC and the cheerleader for the sport but this his actions are depressing and he reasoning flawed.
Technically, they are not legal per the AMA rulebook. There is not an approval that promoters can choose whether or not to follow. Supplemental rules allow a promoter to ask for exceptions to the rulebook. What the rulebook says is we don't have a class for these bikes yet, but if a promoter asks for an exception for open classes via supplemental rules, the AMA will say yes.

So DC is actually following the rulebook, and just not asking for an exception.
Johnny Depp
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3/31/2018 4:57pm
moto0852 wrote:
The fact they ARE AMA legal is what makes it worse. This is Davey Coombs and MXsports just saying "we don't care we are not running...
The fact they ARE AMA legal is what makes it worse. This is Davey Coombs and MXsports just saying "we don't care we are not running them".

I've always thought of DC and the cheerleader for the sport but this his actions are depressing and he reasoning flawed.
SlowOldGuy wrote:
Technically, they are not legal per the AMA rulebook. There is not an approval that promoters can choose whether or not to follow. Supplemental rules allow...
Technically, they are not legal per the AMA rulebook. There is not an approval that promoters can choose whether or not to follow. Supplemental rules allow a promoter to ask for exceptions to the rulebook. What the rulebook says is we don't have a class for these bikes yet, but if a promoter asks for an exception for open classes via supplemental rules, the AMA will say yes.

So DC is actually following the rulebook, and just not asking for an exception.
Pretty sure you have it backwards. They are OK unless a supplemental rule DQ's them.

Either way, DC and MX Sports make the decision. Not the AMA.
3/31/2018 5:07pm Edited Date/Time 3/31/2018 5:15pm
Pretty sure you have it backwards. They are OK[i] unless [/i]a supplemental rule DQ's them. Either way, DC and MX Sports make the decision. Not the...
Pretty sure you have it backwards. They are OK unless a supplemental rule DQ's them.

Either way, DC and MX Sports make the decision. Not the AMA.
100% I have it right, Here is the passage in the rulebook:

Electric Motorcycles
a. Electric Motorcycle is a two-wheeled vehicle
powered and propelled solely by stored electricity
(battery/accumulator), without the use of petroleum
based fuels. Racing eligibility will be determined
through supplemental rules.

Promoters submit Supplemental rules to the AMA for approval.

8. Recognized, non-recognized districts, competition
partners, organizers or series that require supplementary
regulations must submit any supplementary regulations to
the AMA for approval prior to the first event of the year.
Failure to do so may result in permanent loss of sanction.
Supplemental rules must include any class structure not
included in the AMA rulebook and won't include district or
series information and district policies. Supplemental
regulations must be submitted for approval for any
deviation from the AMA regulations.

And DC and MX Sports do NOT make the decision on what is legal for AMA Amateur Competition in 2018 (the title of this post). I'm pretty sure they submit their class structure and supplemental rules to AMA just like every other promoter.

Like I said before, if the promotors ask for approval for the E bikes to run in open classes, I'm pretty sure those requests will be approved.

p.s. Johnny Depp, I love your movies!!!


Johnny Depp
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3/31/2018 5:36pm Edited Date/Time 3/31/2018 5:46pm
It is a bunch of gobbledy gook to read, but there would have been no need for the recent announcement on supplemental rules saying no Alta's if it were not already legal.

Larry Hughes that posted this thread is an Alta regional rep, and I feel sure he knows how to interpret the rules.

By DC being the decision maker I am referring to the LL Nats only, sorry for the confusion in wording.
3/31/2018 5:43pm
Not to beat a dead horse, but what the recent announcement said was that MX Sports was making a revision and not going to be asking for an exception through supplemental rules.

Johnny Depp
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3/31/2018 5:54pm
Let's agree to disagree on this one.

"Accordingly, the Supplemental Rules for the Loretta Lynn program have been revised to prohibit electric motorcycles from competition until further notice."
3/31/2018 6:11pm
Let's agree to disagree on this one. "Accordingly, the Supplemental Rules for the Loretta Lynn program have been revised to prohibit electric motorcycles from competition until...
Let's agree to disagree on this one.

"Accordingly, the Supplemental Rules for the Loretta Lynn program have been revised to prohibit electric motorcycles from competition until further notice."
Gonna give it one last shot here. What you posted saying what I am saying. Pretty sure LL originally asked AMA for an exception (supplemental rule), and changed their mind.

The reason I am positive on the AMAs rule and intent, and how supplemental rules work,
is that I am part of the committee that wrote it.
burn1986
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3/31/2018 6:20pm
I wonder what AMA and Mx Sports "research" consists of
Calling Honda and asking if it was okay.
Johnny Depp
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4/1/2018 6:15am
Let's agree to disagree on this one. "Accordingly, the Supplemental Rules for the Loretta Lynn program have been revised to prohibit electric motorcycles from competition until...
Let's agree to disagree on this one.

"Accordingly, the Supplemental Rules for the Loretta Lynn program have been revised to prohibit electric motorcycles from competition until further notice."
SlowOldGuy wrote:
Gonna give it one last shot here. What you posted saying what I am saying. Pretty sure LL originally asked AMA for an exception (supplemental rule)...
Gonna give it one last shot here. What you posted saying what I am saying. Pretty sure LL originally asked AMA for an exception (supplemental rule), and changed their mind.

The reason I am positive on the AMAs rule and intent, and how supplemental rules work,
is that I am part of the committee that wrote it.
Mike, Can you share what you guys were drinking, I mean thinking?
wardy
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4/1/2018 6:38am
Mike you know i love ya man but this one just stinks. And i bet equally as interesting is that AMA racing prohibits


muli-cylinder machines

two wheel drive machines.

those rules nixed those bikes before they had any chance to see competition.

so much for "forward" thinking.

I would agree for now "not in the 250 class" but the rest?

but hey this will happen more and more as the new way proceeds.
snydes
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4/1/2018 6:45am
MX Sports should explain their reasoning for not allowing them in the open classes, because now they just look foolish. DC states there was only one registered to race, then what’s the problem here?
4/1/2018 7:48am Edited Date/Time 4/1/2018 8:16am
Mike, Can you share what you guys were drinking, I mean thinking?
Personally, I was drinking water. We were thinking lets define what the bikes are and add a provision where promoters who would like to allow them to run have a way to do so on a case by case basis (supplemental rules), without forcing all promoters to accept them. This will allow us to gauge the competitiveness of the bikes in a more controlled environment without setting precedents that may have consequences like the 2 stroke/4 stroke disaster.

People are raising hell, but in reality, the AMA and motocross/Endurocross are way in front of all other motorsports in this issue. I am not aware of any other forms of motorsports where electric vehicles compete side by side with ICE vehicles and we will have the opportunity at most of our amateur events.

And for the record, there were two of the OEMs in the room and neither had any comment.
dkg
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4/1/2018 8:39am
Mike, Can you share what you guys were drinking, I mean thinking?
SlowOldGuy wrote:
Personally, I was drinking water. We were thinking lets define what the bikes are and add a provision where promoters who would like to allow them...
Personally, I was drinking water. We were thinking lets define what the bikes are and add a provision where promoters who would like to allow them to run have a way to do so on a case by case basis (supplemental rules), without forcing all promoters to accept them. This will allow us to gauge the competitiveness of the bikes in a more controlled environment without setting precedents that may have consequences like the 2 stroke/4 stroke disaster.

People are raising hell, but in reality, the AMA and motocross/Endurocross are way in front of all other motorsports in this issue. I am not aware of any other forms of motorsports where electric vehicles compete side by side with ICE vehicles and we will have the opportunity at most of our amateur events.

And for the record, there were two of the OEMs in the room and neither had any comment.
Be careful interjecting logic here, it interferes with reception of the foil hat conspiracy theorists.
Spizzy
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4/1/2018 8:47am
Which 2 oems were in the room and declined comment?
4/1/2018 9:32am
In our AMA Congress meetings, the OEMs are invited to attend but do not sit at the table and have no voting rights. If they have a comment on something we are discussing they will raise their hands and will be called on by the chairman. Sometimes people on the committee will request comment. Neither happened when discussing this topic.

I don't recall if they were specifically sitting in the room when we discussed E-bikes but Kawi and KTM attended the meetings. These are not secret meetings, lots of people are coming and going during a meeting that can last 6 hours plus.

Also, any AMA member can propose a rule through their congressperson. It is not hard to be part of the process.
Spizzy
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4/1/2018 10:08am
Im aware of congress and the process, was just curious which oems were there.

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