For The Record Alta IS Legal For AMA Amateur Competition 2018

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3/30/2018 12:36 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/30/2018 12:37 PM

Just to be clear....

Alta is legal for AMA Amateur competition in an "Open cc" class for 2018. It's up to the promoter on whether or not they decide to follow this rule. Freestone followed this rule for the James Stewart Spring Championship. There were a few riders hoping their 2018 MXR models where delivered in time, but they ended up a couple of days late, or else they would have been raced there.

While MX Sports has decided to not let E bikes (Alta) in this year for the AMA Amateur Championship at Loretta Lynns, they will be doing their due diligence along with testing and research. My guess is that they will allow them next year at the Ranch. The foot is in the door, and it will be wide open soon.

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3/30/2018 12:49 PM

there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things.

right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta knew or should have known of the increased risk of collision due to inherent expectation to be able to hear vehicles of same type operated in same environment (4 strokes), and Alta had the means to apply reasonable measures to increase awareness of location and trajectory of their electric vehicles to a reasonable degree"

someones gonna hit a kid crossing the track or something.

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3/30/2018 12:53 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/30/2018 12:54 PM

I wonder what AMA and Mx Sports "research" consists of

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2003 CR250R - 2006 KX250 (freessshhhh)

3/30/2018 1:28 PM

milliebays wrote:

there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things.

right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta knew or should have known of the increased risk of collision due to inherent expectation to be able to hear vehicles of same type operated in same environment (4 strokes), and Alta had the means to apply reasonable measures to increase awareness of location and trajectory of their electric vehicles to a reasonable degree"

someones gonna hit a kid crossing the track or something.

Right, because everyone that races motocross is blind or too dumb to look at the track before they cross it... I thought we saved that for the flaggers in arenacross?

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3/30/2018 1:33 PM

milliebays wrote:

there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things.

right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta knew or should have known of the increased risk of collision due to inherent expectation to be able to hear vehicles of same type operated in same environment (4 strokes), and Alta had the means to apply reasonable measures to increase awareness of location and trajectory of their electric vehicles to a reasonable degree"

someones gonna hit a kid crossing the track or something.

Classic. Making up a problem that doesn't exist. You should be in politics! Hell - what are the next lotto numbers? What is the meaning of life? Can you also talk to the spirit world? Ask JFK what it was like to bang Marilyn Monroe and let us know!

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3/30/2018 1:37 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/1/2018 8:03 AM

milliebays wrote:

there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things.

right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta knew or should have known of the increased risk of collision due to inherent expectation to be able to hear vehicles of same type operated in same environment (4 strokes), and Alta had the means to apply reasonable measures to increase awareness of location and trajectory of their electric vehicles to a reasonable degree"

someones gonna hit a kid crossing the track or something.

You must be trolling...

I live in the electric car capital of the world, and if what you say was true all hell would be breaking loose.

Nice cast though...

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3/30/2018 1:37 PM

milliebays wrote:

there will be a lawsuit sooner or later where someone gets hit because they couldn't hear the things.

right or wrong, the claim will be: "Alta knew or should have known of the increased risk of collision due to inherent expectation to be able to hear vehicles of same type operated in same environment (4 strokes), and Alta had the means to apply reasonable measures to increase awareness of location and trajectory of their electric vehicles to a reasonable degree"

someones gonna hit a kid crossing the track or something.

How about all the people who get hit by "silent" cars in urban areas? I can just see a court room all looking at each thinking, wait a minute, so you say this thing is TOO quiet? wassat

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3/30/2018 1:41 PM

Zoom wrote:

Just to be clear....

Alta is legal for AMA Amateur competition in an "Open cc" class for 2018. It's up to the promoter on whether or not they decide to follow this rule. Freestone followed this rule for the James Stewart Spring Championship. There were a few riders hoping their 2018 MXR models where delivered in time, but they ended up a couple of days late, or else they would have been raced there.

While MX Sports has decided to not let E bikes (Alta) in this year for the AMA Amateur Championship at Loretta Lynns, they will be doing their due diligence along with testing and research. My guess is that they will allow them next year at the Ranch. The foot is in the door, and it will be wide open soon.

Thanks for sharing. My opinion is that Alta is going to change the industry forever and for the better.

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3/30/2018 4:41 PM

all you people that think i'm trolling. I don't have an agenda or a side. Just making a prediction. Scoff away.

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3/30/2018 10:20 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/30/2018 10:21 PM

Jake_CR250R wrote:

I wonder what AMA and Mx Sports "research" consists of

It is spelled "re$earch" in this case.

Alta has gotta pay to play.

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Part of Speech: Noun

Definition: A loser, poser, lame-ass. One who talks the talk, but could never walk the walk.

One who talks shit and doesn't back it up, but rather ends up eating their shit in return. A fuckin 'tard.


Usage: Slang

3/31/2018 3:42 AM

1) those bikes aren’t silent
2) they already make noise
3) they just aren’t as noisy as 4 strokes

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3/31/2018 12:17 PM

In the isle of man and pikes peak they made them run with speakers emitting some sort of sound.

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3/31/2018 12:49 PM

I love the quiet riding idea, but races are for machines of “like kind”. I don’t think that electric/gas engines should race together, but that’s just an opinion.

Please note the “just an opinion” part.

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3/31/2018 1:47 PM

The fact they ARE AMA legal is what makes it worse. This is Davey Coombs and MXsports just saying "we don't care we are not running them".

I've always thought of DC and the cheerleader for the sport but this his actions are depressing and he reasoning flawed.

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Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous. Checkout; ABetterStockMarket.com

3/31/2018 1:55 PM

p0wn wrote:

Classic. Making up a problem that doesn't exist. You should be in politics! Hell - what are the next lotto numbers? What is the meaning of life? Can you also talk to the spirit world? Ask JFK what it was like to bang Marilyn Monroe and let us know!

FYI, JFK Did bang Marilyn Monroe...

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3/31/2018 4:48 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/31/2018 4:50 PM

moto0852 wrote:

The fact they ARE AMA legal is what makes it worse. This is Davey Coombs and MXsports just saying "we don't care we are not running them".

I've always thought of DC and the cheerleader for the sport but this his actions are depressing and he reasoning flawed.

Technically, they are not legal per the AMA rulebook. There is not an approval that promoters can choose whether or not to follow. Supplemental rules allow a promoter to ask for exceptions to the rulebook. What the rulebook says is we don't have a class for these bikes yet, but if a promoter asks for an exception for open classes via supplemental rules, the AMA will say yes.

So DC is actually following the rulebook, and just not asking for an exception.

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3/31/2018 4:57 PM

moto0852 wrote:

The fact they ARE AMA legal is what makes it worse. This is Davey Coombs and MXsports just saying "we don't care we are not running them".

I've always thought of DC and the cheerleader for the sport but this his actions are depressing and he reasoning flawed.

SlowOldGuy wrote:

Technically, they are not legal per the AMA rulebook. There is not an approval that promoters can choose whether or not to follow. Supplemental rules allow a promoter to ask for exceptions to the rulebook. What the rulebook says is we don't have a class for these bikes yet, but if a promoter asks for an exception for open classes via supplemental rules, the AMA will say yes.

So DC is actually following the rulebook, and just not asking for an exception.

Pretty sure you have it backwards. They are OK unless a supplemental rule DQ's them.

Either way, DC and MX Sports make the decision. Not the AMA.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

3/31/2018 5:07 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/31/2018 5:15 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Pretty sure you have it backwards. They are OK unless a supplemental rule DQ's them.

Either way, DC and MX Sports make the decision. Not the AMA.

100% I have it right, Here is the passage in the rulebook:

Electric Motorcycles
a. Electric Motorcycle is a two-wheeled vehicle
powered and propelled solely by stored electricity
(battery/accumulator), without the use of petroleum
based fuels. Racing eligibility will be determined
through supplemental rules.

Promoters submit Supplemental rules to the AMA for approval.

8. Recognized, non-recognized districts, competition
partners, organizers or series that require supplementary
regulations must submit any supplementary regulations to
the AMA for approval prior to the first event of the year.
Failure to do so may result in permanent loss of sanction.
Supplemental rules must include any class structure not
included in the AMA rulebook and won't include district or
series information and district policies. Supplemental
regulations must be submitted for approval for any
deviation from the AMA regulations.

And DC and MX Sports do NOT make the decision on what is legal for AMA Amateur Competition in 2018 (the title of this post). I'm pretty sure they submit their class structure and supplemental rules to AMA just like every other promoter.

Like I said before, if the promotors ask for approval for the E bikes to run in open classes, I'm pretty sure those requests will be approved.

p.s. Johnny Depp, I love your movies!!!


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3/31/2018 5:36 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/31/2018 5:46 PM

It is a bunch of gobbledy gook to read, but there would have been no need for the recent announcement on supplemental rules saying no Alta's if it were not already legal.

Larry Hughes that posted this thread is an Alta regional rep, and I feel sure he knows how to interpret the rules.

By DC being the decision maker I am referring to the LL Nats only, sorry for the confusion in wording.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

3/31/2018 5:43 PM

Not to beat a dead horse, but what the recent announcement said was that MX Sports was making a revision and not going to be asking for an exception through supplemental rules.

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3/31/2018 5:54 PM

Let's agree to disagree on this one.

"Accordingly, the Supplemental Rules for the Loretta Lynn program have been revised to prohibit electric motorcycles from competition until further notice."

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

3/31/2018 6:11 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Let's agree to disagree on this one.

"Accordingly, the Supplemental Rules for the Loretta Lynn program have been revised to prohibit electric motorcycles from competition until further notice."

Gonna give it one last shot here. What you posted saying what I am saying. Pretty sure LL originally asked AMA for an exception (supplemental rule), and changed their mind.

The reason I am positive on the AMAs rule and intent, and how supplemental rules work,
is that I am part of the committee that wrote it.

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3/31/2018 6:20 PM

Jake_CR250R wrote:

I wonder what AMA and Mx Sports "research" consists of

Calling Honda and asking if it was okay.

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4/1/2018 6:15 AM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Let's agree to disagree on this one.

"Accordingly, the Supplemental Rules for the Loretta Lynn program have been revised to prohibit electric motorcycles from competition until further notice."

SlowOldGuy wrote:

Gonna give it one last shot here. What you posted saying what I am saying. Pretty sure LL originally asked AMA for an exception (supplemental rule), and changed their mind.

The reason I am positive on the AMAs rule and intent, and how supplemental rules work,
is that I am part of the committee that wrote it.

Mike, Can you share what you guys were drinking, I mean thinking?

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

4/1/2018 6:38 AM

Mike you know i love ya man but this one just stinks. And i bet equally as interesting is that AMA racing prohibits


muli-cylinder machines

two wheel drive machines.

those rules nixed those bikes before they had any chance to see competition.

so much for "forward" thinking.

I would agree for now "not in the 250 class" but the rest?

but hey this will happen more and more as the new way proceeds.

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4/1/2018 6:45 AM

MX Sports should explain their reasoning for not allowing them in the open classes, because now they just look foolish. DC states there was only one registered to race, then what’s the problem here?

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4/1/2018 7:48 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/1/2018 8:16 AM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Mike, Can you share what you guys were drinking, I mean thinking?

Personally, I was drinking water. We were thinking lets define what the bikes are and add a provision where promoters who would like to allow them to run have a way to do so on a case by case basis (supplemental rules), without forcing all promoters to accept them. This will allow us to gauge the competitiveness of the bikes in a more controlled environment without setting precedents that may have consequences like the 2 stroke/4 stroke disaster.

People are raising hell, but in reality, the AMA and motocross/Endurocross are way in front of all other motorsports in this issue. I am not aware of any other forms of motorsports where electric vehicles compete side by side with ICE vehicles and we will have the opportunity at most of our amateur events.

And for the record, there were two of the OEMs in the room and neither had any comment.

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4/1/2018 8:39 AM

SlowOldGuy wrote:

Gonna give it one last shot here. What you posted saying what I am saying. Pretty sure LL originally asked AMA for an exception (supplemental rule), and changed their mind.

The reason I am positive on the AMAs rule and intent, and how supplemental rules work,
is that I am part of the committee that wrote it.

Johnny Depp wrote:

Mike, Can you share what you guys were drinking, I mean thinking?

SlowOldGuy wrote:

Personally, I was drinking water. We were thinking lets define what the bikes are and add a provision where promoters who would like to allow them to run have a way to do so on a case by case basis (supplemental rules), without forcing all promoters to accept them. This will allow us to gauge the competitiveness of the bikes in a more controlled environment without setting precedents that may have consequences like the 2 stroke/4 stroke disaster.

People are raising hell, but in reality, the AMA and motocross/Endurocross are way in front of all other motorsports in this issue. I am not aware of any other forms of motorsports where electric vehicles compete side by side with ICE vehicles and we will have the opportunity at most of our amateur events.

And for the record, there were two of the OEMs in the room and neither had any comment.

Be careful interjecting logic here, it interferes with reception of the foil hat conspiracy theorists.

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I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train

4/1/2018 8:47 AM

Which 2 oems were in the room and declined comment?

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4/1/2018 9:32 AM

In our AMA Congress meetings, the OEMs are invited to attend but do not sit at the table and have no voting rights. If they have a comment on something we are discussing they will raise their hands and will be called on by the chairman. Sometimes people on the committee will request comment. Neither happened when discussing this topic.

I don't recall if they were specifically sitting in the room when we discussed E-bikes but Kawi and KTM attended the meetings. These are not secret meetings, lots of people are coming and going during a meeting that can last 6 hours plus.

Also, any AMA member can propose a rule through their congressperson. It is not hard to be part of the process.

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