Fast amateur A class riders

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3/15/2018 8:14 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/15/2018 8:15 PM

Why do some of these kids that have factory support and somehow don't get a ride on a team at least get to keep there amateur bikes for one more year to try to prove themselves as a pro?? Like Jacob hays for example how long did he ride for kawi and was beating Bogle in motos then gets nothing didn't even get a shot. Kawi should of kept him on board for one more year on his amateur bikes/program and see what he could of done as a pro.

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3/15/2018 8:37 PM

Its all about the ROI

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A big Thank you to FLY racing. OMA KTM. 100%. DT-1 Motorex and Bell helmets . Racing for you JG96

3/16/2018 11:40 AM

Interesting question.. I was watching "The Beginning" earlier today, it's an old amateur moto movie from 03 (?). When it flashed the end credits, there were so many great riders that I initially pegged as future champions, and so many of them never made it.



Who else did you have in mind?
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3/16/2018 8:08 PM

Dillon Epstein
Darian sanayei
Joey Crown
Jace Owen
Just so many kids that had rides for so long and think they are superstars when there amateur and when it comes time to turn pro all that hard work you get nothing at all from the people you rode so long for and did so good as a amateur.

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3/16/2018 8:11 PM

jdsmooth wrote:

Interesting question.. I was watching "The Beginning" earlier today, it's an old amateur moto movie from 03 (?). When it flashed the end credits, there were so many great riders that I initially pegged as future champions, and so many of them never made it.



Who else did you have in mind?

I watched the golden era yesterday. I spent the whole movie on my phone googling names of riders I have forgotten about.

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3/16/2018 8:21 PM

Also Tristan Charboneau, I thought he was going to do well here after his rookie debut.

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3/16/2018 9:31 PM

They take them to factory teams to early. They should have to go through the A class first also put a minimum age limit on racing AMA pro Naitionals and SX.
There is a slew of amateurs coming up with having proved nothing against the big guns.
Instabangers and rich parents is what is getting rides only to have them pulled when there true B class status is shown.

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3/16/2018 9:51 PM

TRAVO 67 wrote:

Dillon Epstein
Darian sanayei
Joey Crown
Jace Owen
Just so many kids that had rides for so long and think they are superstars when there amateur and when it comes time to turn pro all that hard work you get nothing at all from the people you rode so long for and did so good as a amateur.

Sanaei kind of missed his window the last year he raced be he was killing it and got hurt at Loretta's so he went back the next year in a class unfortunately Austin forkner was faster than he was as a b Rider so they skipped right over him basically

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3/16/2018 11:28 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/16/2018 11:30 PM

jdsmooth wrote:

Interesting question.. I was watching "The Beginning" earlier today, it's an old amateur moto movie from 03 (?). When it flashed the end credits, there were so many great riders that I initially pegged as future champions, and so many of them never made it.



Who else did you have in mind?

Man that was cool! Unless they're super superstars we don't really see them over here until their making their debuts..
Funny to see them racing as kids

Also chick right at the start!!! fucken yowzah! Edit @2:30ish

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why am I reading this? ..... Oh christ, now I'm posting...... shiiiiiiiit!!

3/17/2018 12:43 AM

Josh OsbyPhoto

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3/17/2018 2:32 AM

I’d put Zack Bell near the top of that list.

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3/17/2018 5:50 AM

Danster wrote:

Josh OsbyPhoto

Osby has a ride with the Club MX/Redemption Team.

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3/17/2018 5:52 AM

There are millions of A riders who have never made the big time!

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3/17/2018 5:54 AM

TRAVO 67 wrote:

Why do some of these kids that have factory support and somehow don't get a ride on a team at least get to keep there amateur bikes for one more year to try to prove themselves as a pro?? Like Jacob hays for example how long did he ride for kawi and was beating Bogle in motos then gets nothing didn't even get a shot. Kawi should of kept him on board for one more year on his amateur bikes/program and see what he could of done as a pro.

Team Green doesn’t have a way to support them in the Pro ranks. That program is budgeted as an amateur squad and only goes to those events, staying on with a kid going pro takes away from the equiptment they would offer an amateur that year. Secondly, all they would be able to provide is the bike and parts itself, the rider wouldn’t have a ride as Pro Circuit is the official 250 program...it’s up to Mitch if he wants to bring one of those guys up from the Team Green program. In a lot of cases, they can offer to help those kids with bikes another year but that’s not enough to get them to the races, they have to go to a different program that can get them a mechanic, fly them to the races, etc at the minimum.

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3/17/2018 5:57 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/17/2018 5:58 AM

USA wrote:

Also Tristan Charboneau, I thought he was going to do well here after his rookie debut.

Tristan didn’t turn Pro the year that Geico had planned and his contract with the most actually ran out. Based on his amateur results and working with the team, they weren’t going to move him to the Pro ranks at all but ended up doing outdoors with him after a bunch of injuries to the main squad. At this point he was running on a verbal deal basically for that stretch of races. Problem for him is the team was already full for the next season, he missed his spot and didn’t move up within the right timeframe...along with there being issues on how he worked with the team.

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3/17/2018 6:01 AM

Wells423 wrote:

I’d put Zack Bell near the top of that list.

Zach Bell turned Pro in 2012 and race for Geico through 2014, moved to Rockstar Husky in ‘15 and 51Fifty Yamaha in ‘16.

He now races off-road on a Husky support program and is the defending Big 6 Champion on the West Coast.

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3/17/2018 6:05 AM

TRAVO 67 wrote:

Dillon Epstein
Darian sanayei
Joey Crown
Jace Owen
Just so many kids that had rides for so long and think they are superstars when there amateur and when it comes time to turn pro all that hard work you get nothing at all from the people you rode so long for and did so good as a amateur.

Owen’s support went away as an amateur when Suzuki pulled their support from the Rockstar Racing program, he wasn’t really doing so hot at that point anyhow. He did the last of amateurs on his own and bounced around for abit until he matured and got his stuff together. He’s been killing it in Arenacross, making a living and I know a team or two has been thinking about giving him a shot in SX but now he’s out with double knee surgery.

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3/17/2018 6:10 AM

TRAVO 67 wrote:

Dillon Epstein
Darian sanayei
Joey Crown
Jace Owen
Just so many kids that had rides for so long and think they are superstars when there amateur and when it comes time to turn pro all that hard work you get nothing at all from the people you rode so long for and did so good as a amateur.

Crown has a ride as well but is hurt.

Epstein’s deal was weird...he thought he had the PC ride and it got pulled out from under him for Hill

Sanayei was in the same place as Worth and Harrison. All three were at Team Green when Forkner was coming up behind them. PC had one spot and they took Forkner. However, Sanayei made things worked and has a good ride in the MXGP series.

Not all these kids can move into Factory level support programs. Over their amateur years Team Green and other programs get these kids to the races and allow them to show their stuff. It’s ultimately up to a combination of results, skills, family environemnt and sponsor relations that gets a kid one of the coveted spots. The ones that are leftover still have a good chance of getting decent rides if the skills are there and they kept their noses clean....there’s plenty of kids that were on the cusp of being good enough to sign or give a shot to, but dealings with them or their parents hurt their chances of getting a spot.

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3/17/2018 6:22 AM

The kids that had rides as amateurs and are ready to turn pro that don't get a ride kinda just give up a lot of times. They think they need 2 mechanics and fly to races even though they have spent years doing amateur nationals traveling. If my kid were in that position I would go pro for a year and just act as if it was another amateur year. Some of these superstar kids parents probably spend more or the same as what it would cost as a pro as a amateur

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3/17/2018 6:25 AM

Does every graduated college student get THE dream job?

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3/17/2018 6:42 AM

TRAVO 67 wrote:

The kids that had rides as amateurs and are ready to turn pro that don't get a ride kinda just give up a lot of times. They think they need 2 mechanics and fly to races even though they have spent years doing amateur nationals traveling. If my kid were in that position I would go pro for a year and just act as if it was another amateur year. Some of these superstar kids parents probably spend more or the same as what it would cost as a pro as a amateur

A lot of kids and parents have gotten into thinking if lil johnny doesn't have a ride when turns pro its over. It wasn't that long ago when some of the top riders would still ride their first few nationals on their own before getting signed. Also, there's ways to make a living beyond the US or MXGP scene...such as racing in Canada, Australia, Brazil...SX series like the ones in Germany, Britain, France, Italy, etc... Then there's odd ball races in Mexico, Phillipines, Thailand, Argentina, Costa Rica, etc.

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3/17/2018 7:06 AM

It's so sad what happened to Josh Lichtle. From that video he seemed to be a real character around the paddock.

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3/17/2018 8:20 AM

lumpy790 wrote:

Does every graduated college student get THE dream job?

funny, I never thought pro mx was a career, I just think of a career as a long process over a lifetime after college. With Poto, Dungey a few others retired from MX at 26 or 27, not my definition of a career....now to jump sides of the fence, I would say Reed has made MX a career...

in response to another post in here, I'v taken my kid to gatorback a few years, I would say the top amateurs get more support then the guys finishing in the 20th positions in MX with support rides.

It would be interesting to limit armature support and move the budget over to the pros, but they won't cause the real money is made from amateurs chasing the dream or weekend warriors...as an example I think you sell the majority of your product to schmucks like me then Tomac....

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3/17/2018 8:34 AM

USA wrote:

Also Tristan Charboneau, I thought he was going to do well here after his rookie debut.

ML512 wrote:

Tristan didn’t turn Pro the year that Geico had planned and his contract with the most actually ran out. Based on his amateur results and working with the team, they weren’t going to move him to the Pro ranks at all but ended up doing outdoors with him after a bunch of injuries to the main squad. At this point he was running on a verbal deal basically for that stretch of races. Problem for him is the team was already full for the next season, he missed his spot and didn’t move up within the right timeframe...along with there being issues on how he worked with the team.

Tristan has a Yamaha ride and is in Europe .

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A big Thank you to FLY racing. OMA KTM. 100%. DT-1 Motorex and Bell helmets . Racing for you JG96

3/17/2018 9:53 AM

Wells423 wrote:

I’d put Zack Bell near the top of that list.

ML512 wrote:

Zach Bell turned Pro in 2012 and race for Geico through 2014, moved to Rockstar Husky in ‘15 and 51Fifty Yamaha in ‘16.

He now races off-road on a Husky support program and is the defending Big 6 Champion on the West Coast.

Love seeing him at Hangtown on a CRF 450 with a larger tank.

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bd

3/17/2018 9:54 AM

lumpy790 wrote:

Does every graduated college student get THE dream job?

Well said

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bd

3/17/2018 10:10 AM

A LOT of armature kids have been quoted saying their whole jump into the program ranks were based on like winning their last 3 motos at Lorettas and if they won 2 and got a 4th on their third Moto the factory contract for said "can't miss kid" gets pulled and goes to someone else... obviously I'm paraphrasing here but that's the theme of a lot of big named amatures that become struggling privateers once they hit the pro ranks hence this thread......now this is what's usually said from the riders side, of course we never really hear the flip side, can you imagine how many of these stories Mitch or any other 250 factory team owner could correct? It's hard to say who is right and who is embellishing.....the story above was pretty much how Epstein (sp) explained his fall from Team Green Superstardom to having no ride when he hit the pro's

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3/17/2018 10:28 AM

Dillan Epstein has been racing in Canada. This year he's Matt Goerke's teammate on the Rockstar Energy OTSFF Yamaha Team.

Like ML said there's other ways to make a living racing dirt bikes. I get that the US is where a lot of people dream to be but if that's not an option there's other market's that will allow someone to race for a living.

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3/17/2018 3:53 PM

That was really fun to read, thanks ML.

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3/17/2018 4:01 PM

Windham didn’t have a ride after amateur turning pro. Went out for a few nationals on his own and scored a Yamaha factory ride.
Bradshaw didn’t have a ride after amateur either and went to to Tokyo sx and whooped the big boys in the 250 class and got signed..

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