False neutral!

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12/15/2018 4:18 AM

According to the crash of Coldenhoff(if neutral was the problem) i was thinkin why haven't the gp bikes or dirtbikes in general some kind of safety system where its impossible to hit neutral while riding. This can possibly avoid a lot of crashes and dangerous moment.

Just like the motogp bikes, they have to push an extra lever to put it in neutral. Im sure factory's can find different kind of systems to make it impossible to hit a neutral.
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12/15/2018 4:43 AM

I feel like id hit neutral more often if it was all the way at the bottom. Tbh solid shifts are the trick to not hitting neutrals. Hitting shifts super fast like these pros do, its probably easy to make a little mistake and not pull up enough to get to 2nd.

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12/15/2018 5:01 AM

kb228 wrote:

I feel like id hit neutral more often if it was all the way at the bottom. Tbh solid shifts are the trick to not hitting ...more

Did you actually read the post and look at the pic? - you can't get to neutral unless you pull in that stubby lever. This is an excellent idea, and let there be no doubt about the injuries it would prevent. Heck, it out to be mandatory!!!!

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12/15/2018 5:07 AM

kb228 wrote:

I feel like id hit neutral more often if it was all the way at the bottom. Tbh solid shifts are the trick to not hitting ...more

Silas444 wrote:

Did you actually read the post and look at the pic? - you can't get to neutral unless you pull in that stubby lever. This is ...more

Guess i didnt really. Its saturday and i had to be up for work at 4am. Forgive me lol

Its a cool idea if they can implement it in a light weight manner. Theyd have to put it on production bikes tho too to stay legal

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12/15/2018 5:10 AM

Always loved the term “I hit a False Neutral”. Nooooo, you F’ing hit neutral!!!

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12/15/2018 5:18 AM

Talisker wrote:

Always loved the term “I hit a False Neutral”. Nooooo, you F’ing hit neutral!!!

LOL, you beat me to it. That sh*t wasn't "false" neutral, that was "REAL" neutral. If it was "false", you'd still be in gear.

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12/15/2018 5:39 AM

That wasn't neutral.
Or maybe it was if they use a 3-speed gearbox.
Otherwise there's no way at that speed he's shifting up from first to second...

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12/15/2018 6:51 AM

Talisker wrote:

Always loved the term “I hit a False Neutral”. Nooooo, you F’ing hit neutral!!!

DoctorJD wrote:

LOL, you beat me to it. That sh*t wasn't "false" neutral, that was "REAL" neutral. If it was "false", you'd still be in gear.

I always thought a false neutral was when a sloppy shift doesn't fully engage and gets you in between two gears other than 1st or 2nd. I think it happened more often on older bikes.

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12/15/2018 6:55 AM

It appears some folks have never ridden (or heard of) a bike with a Sachs engine/gearbox. They had a false neutral between most every gear.

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12/15/2018 7:02 AM

Talisker wrote:

Always loved the term “I hit a False Neutral”. Nooooo, you F’ing hit neutral!!!

DoctorJD wrote:

LOL, you beat me to it. That sh*t wasn't "false" neutral, that was "REAL" neutral. If it was "false", you'd still be in gear.

Gworm wrote:

I always thought a false neutral was when a sloppy shift doesn't fully engage and gets you in between two gears other than 1st ...more

^ This. I highly doubt he was shifting from 1st to 2nd when this happened, as I've never used 1st on a mx track ever. There is a "false" neutral between every gear, when the previous gear has disengaged and the new gear has not fully engaged. If the shift detent mechanism doesn't fully lock in the new gear, it can disengage and you can end up in that bad space between gears at a very inopportune time.

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12/15/2018 7:05 AM

yea im pretty sure a false neutral is when the gearbox doesnt fully engage between shifts. Ive had it happen shifting from 4th to 5th a bunch of times on my '13 CRF250, so it definitely wasnt the "real" neutral.

What the OP posted looks pretty interesting, im sure the GP teams could figure it out, then have the OEMs make it a stock component

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12/15/2018 7:36 AM

Talisker wrote:

Always loved the term “I hit a False Neutral”. Nooooo, you F’ing hit neutral!!!

DoctorJD wrote:

LOL, you beat me to it. That sh*t wasn't "false" neutral, that was "REAL" neutral. If it was "false", you'd still be in gear.

These guys must have never rode a Suzuki

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12/15/2018 8:52 AM

The MotoGP bikes are “seamless” gearboxes, so they are always engaged in a gear and that is why they also have a seperate neutral (like a manual car)

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12/15/2018 9:42 AM

How do you hit a "false neutral"?

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Nobody ever told me, I found out for myself. You've got to believe in foolish miracles. It's not how you play the game, it's if you win or lose. You can choose. Don't confuse. Win or lose. It's up to you!

12/15/2018 9:49 AM

Gotta double clutch that bitch!

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12/15/2018 10:03 AM

Either way the real neutral and the false neutral could both be very dangerous. There must be more than one way to make it impossible to hit real neutral. And for the false neutral, there are defenitly other ways to prevent this.

What about the shift lever, if the shift lever would be shorter there wouldn't be such a long travel to shift it fully up or down.

And what about the seamless gearbox like the motogp, it would solve both problems. Probably more expensive but if that could save some horror crashes when going over the bars.

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12/15/2018 10:11 AM

Yea, does seem like something that should have been addressed a long time ago. Hmmmnnn

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12/15/2018 10:12 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/15/2018 10:14 AM

I don't think a lot of you have hit false neutral before. False neutral isn't when you shift into neutral, it's that split second in between gears where you aren't getting any power. I understand it's hard to hit false neutral though when you bums don't even get out of 2nd gear.

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12/15/2018 10:24 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/15/2018 10:26 AM

Check the (lease) cost of a seamless gearbox. Yep, the Moto GP rulemakers really kept costs in check when they outlawed DCT systems. They add , depending on the bike model, around grand and bit to the price. A few Honda's can be had with them, option wise. Seamless GBs, somewhere around a Million Euros to Satellite teams in MotoGP.

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12/15/2018 10:27 AM

devindavisphoto wrote:

I don't think a lot of you have hit false neutral before. False neutral isn't when you shift into neutral, it's that split ...more

We can't all be badasses like you, DD! grin grin grin

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12/15/2018 10:31 AM

TeamGreen wrote:

How do you hit a "false neutral"?

Basically just when the shift mechanisme isn't making a full travel, so you current gear is disengaged but the next gear isn't engaged.

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12/15/2018 10:35 AM

devindavisphoto wrote:

I don't think a lot of you have hit false neutral before. False neutral isn't when you shift into neutral, it's that split ...more

NorCal 50+ wrote:

We can't all be badasses like you, DD! grin grin grin

I don't even ride dirt bikes so I don't know which DD you're referring to, Durham? Dahlgren?

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12/15/2018 10:37 AM

Bearuno wrote:

Check the (lease) cost of a seamless gearbox. Yep, the Moto GP rulemakers really kept costs in check when they outlawed DCT ...more

Then your talking motogp prices, i mean check lease cost of a non seamless gearbox back In the day and its probably just as high

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12/15/2018 11:32 AM

devindavisphoto wrote:

I don't think a lot of you have hit false neutral before. False neutral isn't when you shift into neutral, it's that split ...more

Are you a pro allready? Because i seem to remember you talked alot of shit back in the day about turning pro in a few years?

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12/15/2018 1:18 PM

Have a ride on a mid-70s Bultaco and you will suddenly realise where the expression "false neutral" comes from. The engineering back in those days was not quite at the level we have today, and it was very common for a rider to miss a shift. The "throw" of the lever was often much longer than on a modern bike, and on some brands you had to lift your boot off the peg to get the lever to travel far enough to engage the next gear. This meant it was easy to not move the lever far enough and the box would end up in between gears. You had to be really careful not to over-rev the engine and/or stamp on the gear lever in an attempt to force the naughty thing into some kind of gear, as that kind of approach could easily lead to damage inside the transmission.

I believe the Sachs 7 speed gearbox didn't even have a stop after top gear, so if you went up one more gear from top gear you ended up back in first gear! It was like a never ending loop!

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12/15/2018 1:30 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/15/2018 1:34 PM

MotoGP is always in two gears at the same time right? So I guess that’s why they need the extra lever to pull a neutral.
Wouldn’t work on an mx gearbox which has to engage each gear as you shift.
I have hit false neutral a couple of times, both were in deep sand, maybe something to do with the drag of the sand, sure made a noise when it re-engaged.

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12/15/2018 2:14 PM

Andy_Greenney wrote:

MotoGP is always in two gears at the same time right? So I guess that’s why they need the extra lever to pull a neutral.
...more

Correct

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12/15/2018 3:02 PM

Talisker wrote:

Always loved the term “I hit a False Neutral”. Nooooo, you F’ing hit neutral!!!

DoctorJD wrote:

LOL, you beat me to it. That sh*t wasn't "false" neutral, that was "REAL" neutral. If it was "false", you'd still be in gear.

“Fake neutral”

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12/15/2018 3:17 PM

devindavisphoto wrote:

I don't even ride dirt bikes so I don't know which DD you're referring to, Durham? Dahlgren?

Sounds to me like you should only post in
NON MOTO!

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12/15/2018 4:46 PM

TeamGreen wrote:

How do you hit a "false neutral"?

Ride a Maico.

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