Posts
300
Joined
6/16/2012
Location
Phoenix, AZ
US
Edited Date/Time
8/29/2015 12:07pm
I have been desperately trying to avoid opening my big mouth and venting my frustrations about this product (and the industry in general) but I can't hold back, so here it goes. Top off the flame-throwers, I'm ready to do battle.
I have always been a huge fan of two stroke racing because of the simplicity, reliability and affordability aspect. Because of this, I have always been a fan of FMF because they have supported this segment of the market for the same reasons. Kudos to them, we need more companies like this that "get it" and back the return of the smokers. The problem lies in the fact that the industry is realizing that the consumer is conditioned to spending thousands and thousands instead of hundreds because of the 4Turds and now they are trying to take advantage of it. This is not a good thing.
The reason people ride 2-strokes:
1. They can afford to
2. They are simple and cheap
3. In many cases they are faster (and always lighter)
4. They are reliable.
Enter the FMF Titanium 2.1:
In the world of bolting on billet, anodized engine plugs, skid plates, shark fins, 5lb billet hubs made in China, exhaust systems that make less HP than stock (most of them) and all kinds of anodized, CNC bullshit that only ADD weight to your 275lb 4-turd, this 2 stroke silencer tops the charts in regards to marketing "horse-shit"
(I JUST WANT TO DISCLOSE THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION, NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS)
1. This silencer is twice as big as stock, and that is being kind. If I bought a John Deere lawn mower with an exhaust that big I would be pissed. On a 2-stroke?
Really?
Why?
The body is made of Titanium, stock is aluminum. It's simple math, Ti is 50% the weight of steel, Aluminum is 30% the weight of steel. Contrary to what most people think, Ti is NOT lighter than aluminum. If anything this silencer is 1.5 lbs HEAVIER than stock, not 1.5 lbs lighter.
Selling $400 titanium silencers that are as big as a four-stroke will not help this sport!
This is not the best answer to the sports biggest problem (affordability).
Considering the fact that most 2 stroke aftermarket exhaust companies have been pushing "shorty" silencers for years, this is a big change. If you really understand two strokes, shorty silencers are the kiss of death for most two stroke powerbands (MOST) and they almost guarantee you will loose 1000-1500 rpm in over-rev, a two strokes best friend. If most riders really understood how two strokes worked and they did their homework and tested back to back, they would see in most cases stock is best, or at least the stock length silencer is best.
Building billet, anodized, CNC infested boat anchors that perform at a lower level than stock is not in the sports best interest, whether it involves two strokes or four. Yet the sport seems obsessed with it. Its amusing to see how people react to a bunch of anodized Chinese parts that weigh double the amount of the stock ones, and at the same time actually thinking it improves the performance of the motorcycle, pretty comical.
It's refreshing to see that the aftermarket is finally realizing that its impossible to saw 2" off of a two stroke exhaust system without detrimental effects to the power-band but on the other side of the coin, to see them try to charge $200-$250 more for the correct length exhaust silencer is a joke.
I am willing to bet $1000 cash that part #1 weighs more than part #2?
I would be willing to bet another $1000 cash the dyno numbers are within 1/2 HP on both parts.
Job #1 is to keep two stroke racing affordable or we will be right back where we started with the 4-turds and the sport will continue to die a slow painful death. Selling $400 two stroke silencers that are not an improvement over stock is not how we do that.
We need to tend to the roots or the trees will die. Stamp It.
I have always been a huge fan of two stroke racing because of the simplicity, reliability and affordability aspect. Because of this, I have always been a fan of FMF because they have supported this segment of the market for the same reasons. Kudos to them, we need more companies like this that "get it" and back the return of the smokers. The problem lies in the fact that the industry is realizing that the consumer is conditioned to spending thousands and thousands instead of hundreds because of the 4Turds and now they are trying to take advantage of it. This is not a good thing.
The reason people ride 2-strokes:
1. They can afford to
2. They are simple and cheap
3. In many cases they are faster (and always lighter)
4. They are reliable.
Enter the FMF Titanium 2.1:
In the world of bolting on billet, anodized engine plugs, skid plates, shark fins, 5lb billet hubs made in China, exhaust systems that make less HP than stock (most of them) and all kinds of anodized, CNC bullshit that only ADD weight to your 275lb 4-turd, this 2 stroke silencer tops the charts in regards to marketing "horse-shit"
(I JUST WANT TO DISCLOSE THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION, NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS)
1. This silencer is twice as big as stock, and that is being kind. If I bought a John Deere lawn mower with an exhaust that big I would be pissed. On a 2-stroke?
Really?
Why?
The body is made of Titanium, stock is aluminum. It's simple math, Ti is 50% the weight of steel, Aluminum is 30% the weight of steel. Contrary to what most people think, Ti is NOT lighter than aluminum. If anything this silencer is 1.5 lbs HEAVIER than stock, not 1.5 lbs lighter.
Selling $400 titanium silencers that are as big as a four-stroke will not help this sport!
This is not the best answer to the sports biggest problem (affordability).
Considering the fact that most 2 stroke aftermarket exhaust companies have been pushing "shorty" silencers for years, this is a big change. If you really understand two strokes, shorty silencers are the kiss of death for most two stroke powerbands (MOST) and they almost guarantee you will loose 1000-1500 rpm in over-rev, a two strokes best friend. If most riders really understood how two strokes worked and they did their homework and tested back to back, they would see in most cases stock is best, or at least the stock length silencer is best.
Building billet, anodized, CNC infested boat anchors that perform at a lower level than stock is not in the sports best interest, whether it involves two strokes or four. Yet the sport seems obsessed with it. Its amusing to see how people react to a bunch of anodized Chinese parts that weigh double the amount of the stock ones, and at the same time actually thinking it improves the performance of the motorcycle, pretty comical.
It's refreshing to see that the aftermarket is finally realizing that its impossible to saw 2" off of a two stroke exhaust system without detrimental effects to the power-band but on the other side of the coin, to see them try to charge $200-$250 more for the correct length exhaust silencer is a joke.
I am willing to bet $1000 cash that part #1 weighs more than part #2?
I would be willing to bet another $1000 cash the dyno numbers are within 1/2 HP on both parts.
Job #1 is to keep two stroke racing affordable or we will be right back where we started with the 4-turds and the sport will continue to die a slow painful death. Selling $400 two stroke silencers that are not an improvement over stock is not how we do that.
We need to tend to the roots or the trees will die. Stamp It.
That's pretty big, maybe a 5 stroke?
The Shop
That's how a real two stroke should look.
This is what I got for my 2-stroke. Decent price at $160 retail price and same lenght as stock. Fills the purpose and looks good (which clearly matters). So FMF still offers a lot of good products that the general consumers want in the correct price category.
But i am going to measure & weigh my stock silencer and see what the difference is to my shorty.
My next two stroke has one of them and a works pipe! SEXY!
I use a Pro Circuit Nature Friendly exhaust. Does its job at sound db levels and has a spark arrestor so I don't turn Michigans forest info California.
Pit Row
Euro noise standards are are good thing - the old old saying - " less sound = more ground" is even more relevant today than it was in the 70s when I first heard / saw it.
I'm quite fantatical about making my Bikes quiet - I live right on the edge of suburbia and the Mountains here, and have ridden in the area for well over 40 years, and will continue to do so as long as I can. I make my own , long, Long mufflers, run Full chamber protectors that also quell my 500 2ts resonance, And an all enveloping aluminium drop tank. My 500 sounds like a moped, which means I can ride right near houses that have found their way into the mountains here, yet no one knows I'm there. Yet, you get the local dickheads that scream up and down the fire trails, on their MX sound level mufflers on their CRFXs / WRs / EXCs et al, that get nailed by the cops, after pissing off the local residents. And, I have to say it, pissing me off with their god awful noise. I'll pop out of the single track, and the cops, that know me / my bike, just wave me on / or just have a chat with me.
I always have a bit of a chuckle at the claims that such and such 2t muffler makes so much power over the other one, especially when I check stinger / core lengths and IDs. Given the same or very similar specs for those two items, on a straight through core, with the same type of 'pack' , you'll get no noticeable difference. Hell, I can't feel any power loss on my 500, between my own 625mm length muffler, and my 300mm or less length FMF / PC and 'other brand' mufflers from my mispent middle years racing 500s. But, I do admit, in my terrain, I doubt I ever get above about 3k in revs, other than when, sometimes, I come home via a short stretch of freeway, when I occasionally give the old girl the berries - and the long , quiet muffler doesn't slow things down.
2 strokes are so easy to make quiet, without messing up the power - 4ts, well they are the difficult ones to make quiet, without messing with power / having a boat anchor hanging off the bike.
There's a market for expensive, fancy mufflers and manufacturers are just making such things available to the 2t riders that want them. So long as reasonably priced pipes / mufflers remain available, let people spend up bigger than most of us see the need to.
ti shorty on ktm 300, cracked, had it welded, cracked again, now a paper weight, back to standard alum shorty, Ti good for factory guys or garage queens but not for every day use. I dont fault FMF, consumer demands it, they build it. I will continue to buy FMF until I"m done riding, they offered to have me send it back, I just ordered an alum shorty, after shipping & dicking around it was cheaper... this reminds me, I have to order a gnarely for my xc 300 today!
Want titanium? Done. Want aluminum? Done. Long? Sure. Short? No problem. Anodized? They have that covered as well.
As far as weight goes, the straight weights aren't an accurate comparison. A lighter material that's stronger can utilize less of it and achieve the same strength at less weight. So your comparison of weights is somewhat skewed in this context. On my four stroke, the titanium exhaust shaved 2.5 pounds off the stock system which was steel/aluminum.
I do agree (somewhat) with the way we've been trained by companies to purchase more expensive products. Retail on a titanium full system for a four stroke can run north of $1,000. Some of this I'm sure is greed from the manufacturers, but they've also never forced me to make a purchase. I have the freedom to decide what I want to put on my bike.
Instead of complaining about FMF making an expensive titanium silencer that doesn't seem to fit your needs, why not give them credit for making a variety of products to meet a bunch of people's needs? At least they continue to develop new products and fill a need in the market outside of the typical "long or short" silencer options.
Without companies like FMF pushing forward, development would be stalled or possibly even going backwards. Kudos to them for offering choices outside of the normal.
Shane
Titanium shines in the strength to weight ratio for the common metals, so you should be able to use thinner sheets to get the same strength which should result in a much lighter product.
So as I have not bought a muffler product in ages, please educate me. Dont the OEM's list weight, peak hp ( or dyno chart), and sound test data in their specs? I know I would not buy one with out ths data listed for comparison to stock and each other. Unless of course, I was buying it for coolness, which I wouldnt.
Shane
Shorty silencers are junk that has been pushed on us or they are how a 2 stroke is supposed to look?
You seem to be telling your story both ways...
Post a reply to: FMF Titanium Silencer