Eye-Opening Observation at recent Amateur MX-Where's the future??

Ryno784
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189
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Cambridge City, IN US
6/29/2010 12:38pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 2:55pm
OK, so I was away from racing in the District for a few years, 5 or 6 to be more precise. Coming back and racing the past several weeks in the region one thing stands out.... the lack of youth riders....

What used to be our largest classes, the 50cc and 65cc, are now the smallest. There was once a time when we had to split the 65 class and the 50's were always full gates. Now they race for 3rd out of 3! And the +40 class was the biggest on the day!

Making it worse is Yamaha not producing the PW50, TTR50 or the Raptor 50 for 2011....Are the manufacturers throwing up their hands on moto? Who's coming in to become the next MC or Carmichael? Will there be less competition in the ranks thus making for less competitive riders....I don't have the answers, but I can say there's a storm on the horizon and those of us who hold this sport close to our heart may be in for some unfortunate changes.

I can understand the argument against the 4 strokes and the expenses of the bikes possibly pricing people out of the sport, but these are small 2 strokes that haven't increased in operating costs in years. So what happened and what's happening now? Will the market open up to Chinese products, will there be a rebound with the economy or is the sport ultimately doomed?

Comments, rants, sarcasm....all welcome.
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Larry
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Fayetteville, GA US
6/29/2010 12:41pm
Having the 50 classes disapear would be the best thing to happen to moto since Rodger DeCoster showed up in the States.
bt260
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200
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10/30/2008
Location
Locke, NY US
6/29/2010 12:44pm
Larry wrote:
Having the 50 classes disapear would be the best thing to happen to moto since Rodger DeCoster showed up in the States.
no way, without the 50 class there's no moto milfs
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA US
6/29/2010 12:45pm
Your gov't has done a lot to help KILL the Mini's...read up on "The Ban"...over at Transworld and Racer X...hell..search in here...

The Economy has put a real hurt on Racing Families, too.
Larry
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Fayetteville, GA US
6/29/2010 12:50pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Your gov't has done a lot to help KILL the Mini's...read up on "The Ban"...over at Transworld and Racer X...hell..search in here... The Economy has put...
Your gov't has done a lot to help KILL the Mini's...read up on "The Ban"...over at Transworld and Racer X...hell..search in here...

The Economy has put a real hurt on Racing Families, too.
So the govenment is not so bad after all.

The Shop

Ryno784
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Cambridge City, IN US
6/29/2010 12:59pm
Larry wrote:
Having the 50 classes disapear would be the best thing to happen to moto since Rodger DeCoster showed up in the States.
Elaborate Larry, why is it the best thing since sliced bread that the fiddy's are gone? Do the 50 riders grow up to be 80cc riders, and so on....
VEGAS711
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Location
Las Vegas, NV US
6/29/2010 1:02pm
Ryno784 wrote:
OK, so I was away from racing in the District for a few years, 5 or 6 to be more precise. Coming back and racing the...
OK, so I was away from racing in the District for a few years, 5 or 6 to be more precise. Coming back and racing the past several weeks in the region one thing stands out.... the lack of youth riders....

What used to be our largest classes, the 50cc and 65cc, are now the smallest. There was once a time when we had to split the 65 class and the 50's were always full gates. Now they race for 3rd out of 3! And the +40 class was the biggest on the day!

Making it worse is Yamaha not producing the PW50, TTR50 or the Raptor 50 for 2011....Are the manufacturers throwing up their hands on moto? Who's coming in to become the next MC or Carmichael? Will there be less competition in the ranks thus making for less competitive riders....I don't have the answers, but I can say there's a storm on the horizon and those of us who hold this sport close to our heart may be in for some unfortunate changes.

I can understand the argument against the 4 strokes and the expenses of the bikes possibly pricing people out of the sport, but these are small 2 strokes that haven't increased in operating costs in years. So what happened and what's happening now? Will the market open up to Chinese products, will there be a rebound with the economy or is the sport ultimately doomed?

Comments, rants, sarcasm....all welcome.
They aren't making 50cc bikes in 2011 because they are introducing 85cc four strokes in 50cc chassis for the 4-6 and 7-8 year olds.Woohoo
pie8man
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635
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Loveland, CO US
6/29/2010 1:04pm
I'll tell you what I see.
An enormous growing population of lazy people. I am a parent of 3, my oldest is 6 and I work hard at my job and in play to lead my kids by example. There is a massive shortage of this in our society. It is far easier to buy your kid a skateboard or a BMX bike and set them free on the neighborhood.. Or sign them up for those pesky stick and ball sports. (which I also do and coach because it is what they want to do). It is what they see on TV. When we have freestyle skate, BMX, and all the other x-game type options (there are 3 skate parks in my city) that is what the kids want to do. The bottom line is that actual racing while it is in my blood is not what kids are after these days. I can only take my son to the BMX track once a week and soon also to the moto track once a week if I am lucky, that leaves em 5 to 6 other days a week to do other things. There are just so many options that are far more mainstream today that the kids would rather do. We keep harping on tour promoters to get a pro payout in line with what it costs to race and that's a start but it is just a start. There are far more sponsored amateur BMX riders on a $800 bike and skaters on a $300 board making a better living in their sport than our MX racers that make the day program at the nationals. I believe that without major change our sport will continue to lose popularity and participation to freestyle MX and the other x-games options.
DC has a big hill to climb.
rocrac
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Indianapolis, IN US
6/29/2010 1:06pm
Ryno784 wrote:
OK, so I was away from racing in the District for a few years, 5 or 6 to be more precise. Coming back and racing the...
OK, so I was away from racing in the District for a few years, 5 or 6 to be more precise. Coming back and racing the past several weeks in the region one thing stands out.... the lack of youth riders....

What used to be our largest classes, the 50cc and 65cc, are now the smallest. There was once a time when we had to split the 65 class and the 50's were always full gates. Now they race for 3rd out of 3! And the +40 class was the biggest on the day!

Making it worse is Yamaha not producing the PW50, TTR50 or the Raptor 50 for 2011....Are the manufacturers throwing up their hands on moto? Who's coming in to become the next MC or Carmichael? Will there be less competition in the ranks thus making for less competitive riders....I don't have the answers, but I can say there's a storm on the horizon and those of us who hold this sport close to our heart may be in for some unfortunate changes.

I can understand the argument against the 4 strokes and the expenses of the bikes possibly pricing people out of the sport, but these are small 2 strokes that haven't increased in operating costs in years. So what happened and what's happening now? Will the market open up to Chinese products, will there be a rebound with the economy or is the sport ultimately doomed?

Comments, rants, sarcasm....all welcome.
You can thank your lovely district 15 for virtually destroying the Indiana racing scene along with those wonderful promoters slightly north of you.
loftyair
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Location
riverside, CA US
6/29/2010 1:16pm
I think it's the soaring costs of bike and racing. A 50cc might not cost too much, but they grow, and want bigger bike. You cant buy a bigger bike, so kid now is 'bummed' and needs a different outlet. Probably something not as productive. Racing costs too much, and hardly any riding time when you do race. A spectator fee keeps potential future business away. A full day at the track practicing costs 20-25, or even free in the desert or wherever. However, on a race day it costs a good $60 and with only about 15 laps of riding. Cost per lap is not even close, for just a couple gate drops? I can bring g-ma and g-pa and every one else for free on practice days, but a race day costs $10 per person, again for a few laps and gate drops. Organizing a race doesn't cost THAT much more than a full practice day to run operations, they need to tone down the 'gouging' imo.
Sondy132001
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Mission Viejo, CA US
6/29/2010 1:21pm
From a promoters point of view...this is a bad thing (no 50's etc.) if you aren't getting the kids at a young age then they are hitting another sport. I know this has been brought up before, all these topics are in cycles, but the bikes are way too expensive, racing, practice has stayed the same prices for years, bikes are astronomical and people just can't afford to buy them. Then you have practice which is killing racing.

I have a group of friends, they love to call themselves racers, they don't race, they practice, they are practicers not racers plain and simple =)

S
rocrac
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Indianapolis, IN US
6/29/2010 1:28pm
From a promoters point of view...this is a bad thing (no 50's etc.) if you aren't getting the kids at a young age then they are...
From a promoters point of view...this is a bad thing (no 50's etc.) if you aren't getting the kids at a young age then they are hitting another sport. I know this has been brought up before, all these topics are in cycles, but the bikes are way too expensive, racing, practice has stayed the same prices for years, bikes are astronomical and people just can't afford to buy them. Then you have practice which is killing racing.

I have a group of friends, they love to call themselves racers, they don't race, they practice, they are practicers not racers plain and simple =)

S
Well put.

On a side note is the risk reward worth it to race at todays speeds for a $5 trophy?

Even the riders racing for local money and or contingency are finding it hard to justify. I just spent almost $400 on a top end and then another $500 for chain, sprockets and clutch. Bikes and parts are through the roof.
pie8man
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Loveland, CO US
6/29/2010 1:35pm
It is nuts to have to drop $80 entry just to race 2 classes and that will get me 16 to 20 racing laps and maybe 6 practice laps. If the family wants to come (which they do) its another $12 a head 4 times for a $104 day plus "other" expenses. Or I can pay 15 bucks and hammer laps with my buddies till our arms fall off.
cdm806
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Locke, NY US
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6/29/2010 1:36pm
Larry wrote:
Having the 50 classes disapear would be the best thing to happen to moto since Rodger DeCoster showed up in the States.
bt260 wrote:
no way, without the 50 class there's no moto milfs
without six different 50cc motos, the day ends 3 hours quicker! now if they could do something about the 4 classes (8 motos) of minis, we'd be onto something. There are WAY too many mini classes at most tracks IMO. Here are the mini classes ran last weekend at a D3 race at MotoMasters.

-50cc Jr Stock 4-6
-50cc Oil Injected 4-8
-50cc Sr Stock 7-8
-65cc 7-11
-85cc 12-15
-Jr Mini 9-11
-Open Mini 10-16

I'm not in favor of doing away with the 50's or minis, but how about having one 50cc class and one mini (65-85, and 150F) class? There, we just went from 14 motos to 4. Now we're looking at four hours earlier I can leave the track and get home.
tiddlermx23
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Morgantown, WV US
6/29/2010 1:42pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2010 1:43pm
I love watchin the little guys out there for about 2 laps but then it gets a little tiring! Wonder what a company like Honda spends to build a crf50 compared to what it sells for? And what about a crf450? How much per unit is spent compared to what you see on the price tag?
SIMX
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IN US
6/29/2010 1:48pm
"A 50cc might not cost too much, but they grow, and want bigger bike."

Some 50's might not cost much, but go price a new Cobra. Several years back now, until my son got on a 1-2-5, the little "snake" was the most expensive bike we ever bought.
Ryno784
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Cambridge City, IN US
6/29/2010 1:57pm
Ryno784 wrote:
OK, so I was away from racing in the District for a few years, 5 or 6 to be more precise. Coming back and racing the...
OK, so I was away from racing in the District for a few years, 5 or 6 to be more precise. Coming back and racing the past several weeks in the region one thing stands out.... the lack of youth riders....

What used to be our largest classes, the 50cc and 65cc, are now the smallest. There was once a time when we had to split the 65 class and the 50's were always full gates. Now they race for 3rd out of 3! And the +40 class was the biggest on the day!

Making it worse is Yamaha not producing the PW50, TTR50 or the Raptor 50 for 2011....Are the manufacturers throwing up their hands on moto? Who's coming in to become the next MC or Carmichael? Will there be less competition in the ranks thus making for less competitive riders....I don't have the answers, but I can say there's a storm on the horizon and those of us who hold this sport close to our heart may be in for some unfortunate changes.

I can understand the argument against the 4 strokes and the expenses of the bikes possibly pricing people out of the sport, but these are small 2 strokes that haven't increased in operating costs in years. So what happened and what's happening now? Will the market open up to Chinese products, will there be a rebound with the economy or is the sport ultimately doomed?

Comments, rants, sarcasm....all welcome.
rocrac wrote:
You can thank your lovely district 15 for virtually destroying the Indiana racing scene along with those wonderful promoters slightly north of you.
Pieman you have some very solid points, and I agree for the most part on the lazy kids nowadays. I can spend my money and my weekend helping them race, but when it comes time to unload they're gone....damn kids..lol

Roc, I know what you're talking about. We've both been there, but I'm not sure I totally agree that it's the promoters. D15 is in bad shape right now, I guess I'm wondering if it's consistent elsewhere.
Dirtnut129
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Rome, GA US
6/29/2010 2:02pm
As a former parent of a ktm challege kid ( jake hurd129 Atlanta 08) I feel the 50 class is ok if they would keep it to like the honda 50s and so forth .The cobras and ktms cost as much as a 65 or even an 85 .They cost way too much to run .If i had to do all over i would have just let my son trail ride the first few years until he was ready to ride an 85.
Larry
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Fayetteville, GA US
6/29/2010 2:12pm
Larry wrote:
Having the 50 classes disapear would be the best thing to happen to moto since Rodger DeCoster showed up in the States.
Ryno784 wrote:
Elaborate Larry, why is it the best thing since sliced bread that the fiddy's are gone? Do the 50 riders grow up to be 80cc riders...
Elaborate Larry, why is it the best thing since sliced bread that the fiddy's are gone? Do the 50 riders grow up to be 80cc riders, and so on....

Dirtnut129 nailed it. Not only do those snakes cost too much they are too fast for the kids and for the most part the parents are way over the top.
BMX makes much more sense for the little kids.
aggiemoto99
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San Antonio, TX US
6/29/2010 2:13pm
With few exceptions....aren't the pw classes dead?
I think that is a main cause there..as we all know a ktm 50 or cobra 50 are extremely pricey...

And constantly in need of up keep!

MX in general is down in turn outs...and while the cream of the crop are still out there...the masses are not as they used to be.

I bet you this years LL turn outs, if accurately reported...will show a huge decline from last year...at least in my region is seems
Ryno784
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Cambridge City, IN US
6/29/2010 2:18pm
With few exceptions....aren't the pw classes dead? I think that is a main cause there..as we all know a ktm 50 or cobra 50 are extremely...
With few exceptions....aren't the pw classes dead?
I think that is a main cause there..as we all know a ktm 50 or cobra 50 are extremely pricey...

And constantly in need of up keep!

MX in general is down in turn outs...and while the cream of the crop are still out there...the masses are not as they used to be.

I bet you this years LL turn outs, if accurately reported...will show a huge decline from last year...at least in my region is seems
I agree, in our region you simply had to show up to make it to LL this year. I guess when you see it decline little by little its less abrupt, but to step away and return a few years later you really see the drastic changes.
Ryno784
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6/29/2010 2:30pm
From a promoters point of view...this is a bad thing (no 50's etc.) if you aren't getting the kids at a young age then they are...
From a promoters point of view...this is a bad thing (no 50's etc.) if you aren't getting the kids at a young age then they are hitting another sport. I know this has been brought up before, all these topics are in cycles, but the bikes are way too expensive, racing, practice has stayed the same prices for years, bikes are astronomical and people just can't afford to buy them. Then you have practice which is killing racing.

I have a group of friends, they love to call themselves racers, they don't race, they practice, they are practicers not racers plain and simple =)

S
Sondra you seem to have seen my point, very clear and very freightening for a promoter. If the +40 class is the largest now, +50 will be next and we'll have 2 85's lined up for SR Mini.

I hope I'm wrong, I love this stuff.

And as for racing for a $5 trophy, heck Roc we used to do it all the time...I was never concerned about the trophy I was just wanting to beat everyone else on the track that day.
Rupert X
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Newark, OH US
6/29/2010 2:32pm


There has definitely been a shifting demographic to motocross in the last few years.

I went to a Northern Ohio local mx last year, didn't watch the kids, but there was a full

gate of 40+ and twelve (12) in my 50 + class !



* The new KTM 350 has an MSRP of $8439.00.

Put that in your $900.00 titanium exhaust pipe and smoke it.
Adam43
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3179
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WF
6/29/2010 2:32pm
Too many classes, and equipment costs are off the charts.

This isn't the same sport as it was even 10 years ago.
newmann
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US
6/29/2010 2:59pm
1987 PW50 (purchased new in 1989)
1990 YZ250
1992 KX125
1994 KX60
1996 RM80
1998 KX80
1999 KX125
2001 KTM SX50
2001 RM125
2001 YZ250F four stroke
2004 CRF250 four stroke
2007 CR85

These are most of the new bikes I've purchased since 1989 when I started buying bikes for my kids and myself to get back into riding. Other than the CR85, does anyone else see where my new bike buying stopped??? I doubt I'm the only one that quit at that point. I've been through probably 75 or more other dirtbikes since 1990 with all the vintage stuff that I buy, sale, trade, restore and race as well as a lot of fairly current used MX'rs. But they have all been two strokes. Those two four strokes derailed me. You can say what you want about my hate of the overweight pigs, but the point is that I along with many others no longer buy into the 4 stroke fad.
king
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US
6/29/2010 3:14pm
While it’s true, Ohio IS the vet capital of the world, lol MX won't survive without the 50 class. Ryno and Sondra are spot on.
Sondy132001
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Mission Viejo, CA US
6/29/2010 3:15pm
For the record I heard that Cobra is building a 125 two stroke motorcycle...should be fun !

S
newmann
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6/29/2010 3:29pm
For the record I heard that Cobra is building a 125 two stroke motorcycle...should be fun !

S
If true, I would be the first to applaud the effort. Motocross in the U.S. really shit on it's own foot allowing that class to be killed off. No other way to put it.
TeamGreen
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6/29/2010 3:32pm
For the record I heard that Cobra is building a 125 two stroke motorcycle...should be fun !

S
Miss "CMC" is still on her game...
pie8man
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Loveland, CO US
6/29/2010 4:19pm
I do not think I will ever take my sons 50cc racing. I would rather just take them camping and go trail riding and go play on practice days. Really I just cannot afford to do it (racing the whole family) once they get onto 80's and up. I make a good living, not as good as a couple years ago, I live in a modest home and pay for everything cash...well except the house. I do not know how these other families pull it off.
Erik727
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Spring, TX US
6/29/2010 4:34pm
For the record I heard that Cobra is building a 125 two stroke motorcycle...should be fun !

S
Haven't heard that one....Cobra is having financial troubles....The 65 project hasn't quite worked the way they wanted..And they still don't have an 85 for the kids to move up to..

As the dad of two mini racers in the Houston area..One 11 yr old( 65 and 85) and one 8 yr old(50 and 65 )....I can tell you the same is happening in our area.Lots of races ,but the future is dropping....The majority is the cost...
For a competitive 50 ,,you're gonna pay $3500 for a Cobra or KTM....Good used ones can be had for alot less,but they are heavy on maint...Ktm and Cobra are the only game right now...In the 65's ,the only people still making them is Kawi and KTM....I just bought my 11 yr old a new 65KTM for his last season on 65's....A whopping $4100 out the door.
Our 09 KTM 50 was $3400.
Then as said ,,$35-40 per class and 10-12 gate fee on top of that and for a day of racing ,,I'm out $200 before gas food parts ,etc.for our family of 4........
Then there is riding a couple days a week to practice ,and maintaing the other 65 and 85,because they gotta get decent on those because they have to move up.=HUGE $$$$$.
The cost of trying to just qualify for Ponca or Lorrettas is ridiculous,,and if you make it,,you're looking at 3K for a week.
Plus the injury factor and how fast word travels these days about people getting seriously hurt......Really can put mom off the sport in a hurry..

Something needs to be done to get the sport back in line,,but i sure don't know what it is..

But i agree with the origanal poster,,if something doesn't happen ,,the future of the sport will disappear.

My .02

There's a million other things

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