European mx 125 and 250 WOW

4/25/2013 9:05am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2013 11:50am
The gp's have like 33 mx2 and 20 mx1 riders, now there is a change in the emx programe.

2 free trainings 2quali trainings 2 qualifing race's and 1 lcq and on sunday 1 heat race live on tv.
This is all becouse of the number of riders, in the (Cheaper) class
In Portugal there will be 69 riders try to qualifi in the 125 2stroke and 94 in the Emx2

http://www.motocrossmx1.com/?type=News&newsID=3355&title=New%20EMX125%2…
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The Rock
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4/25/2013 11:51am Edited Date/Time 4/25/2013 11:52am
TWO STROKES RULE I have to give it up to Newmann for being in front of the curve on this one. Atta boy Joe!

First four strokes got so many practice areas and tracks in trouble with their neighbors due to sound issues then the high investment/maintenance costs combined with the US economy have seriously impacted rider turnouts at tracks everywhere.

Way too much focus on little Johnny becoming the next SX/MX champion and not enough support for basic grass roots programs IMHO. I can't imagine how many bikes are parked out there collecting dust.

By the time the industry all of this out unfortunately it might be too late.
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4/25/2013 12:26pm Edited Date/Time 4/25/2013 12:26pm
The gp's have like 33 mx2 and 20 mx1 riders, now there is a change in the emx programe. 2 free trainings 2quali trainings 2 qualifing...
The gp's have like 33 mx2 and 20 mx1 riders, now there is a change in the emx programe.

2 free trainings 2quali trainings 2 qualifing race's and 1 lcq and on sunday 1 heat race live on tv.
This is all becouse of the number of riders, in the (Cheaper) class
In Portugal there will be 69 riders try to qualifi in the 125 2stroke and 94 in the Emx2

http://www.motocrossmx1.com/?type=News&newsID=3355&title=New%20EMX125%2…
Henry, looking at the rules, the EMX2 is basically the same as the 250 class here, right:

b) EMX250: motorcycles of Cat. I, Group A1, up to 125cc for 2-stroke engines and over 175cc up to 250cc for 4-stroke engine.

c) EMX 125: motorcycles of Cat. I, Group A1, up to 125cc for 2-stroke engines

What are folks running in EMX2? Not to kick the dog on the two stroke issue, but are the entries driven by cheaper bikes or just that the cost of entry and of running the European championship is cheaper than running the GPs? Are there guys running EMX2 that were in on the GPs a couple years ago?
4/25/2013 12:48pm
the gp mx2 is like the 250 in the us, not the emx2. but emx2 are the same bike's.

running the emx series is cheaper, for a team, and has no age limit. and the gp entry is like 1500 for 1 gp
the Emx has a entry of around 300 if i am corect.
The Rock
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4/25/2013 12:56pm
I'm not a EMX series expert by any means but I'm under the impression this is a development series. Look forward to getting the straight skinny.

Regarding the rules being the same the biggest contrast is you don't see any two stroke races during the Nationals on Saturdays. Why can't we hold the US equivalent of EMX before and after the Nationals on Saturday so there isn't any impact on the TV coverage?

In any event for the life of me I don't get the "there isn't enough time" argument considering it doesn't get dark until 8 to 9 PM in the summer when the Nationals are held..

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Spartacus
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4/25/2013 1:05pm
The AMA knows what's best for us.
JW381
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4/25/2013 1:10pm
Spartacus wrote:
The AMA knows what's best for us.
They are all-knowing and all-powerful.
4/25/2013 1:11pm
The Rock wrote:
I'm not a EMX series expert by any means but I'm under the impression this is a development series. Look forward to getting the straight skinny...
I'm not a EMX series expert by any means but I'm under the impression this is a development series. Look forward to getting the straight skinny.

Regarding the rules being the same the biggest contrast is you don't see any two stroke races during the Nationals on Saturdays. Why can't we hold the US equivalent of EMX before and after the Nationals on Saturday so there isn't any impact on the TV coverage?

In any event for the life of me I don't get the "there isn't enough time" argument considering it doesn't get dark until 8 to 9 PM in the summer when the Nationals are held..
The there is not Enough time argument is easy to explayn. Most of the time du to an licens on the track, and that is a govermental licens no mx sound after 6 pm, whe have it over here also at some tracks. heats are getting a bit shorter so
everyone can ride 2 heats. and the racing is over at 6
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4/25/2013 1:11pm
Spartacus wrote:
The AMA knows what's best for us.
JW381 wrote:
They are all-knowing and all-powerful.
What does the AMA have to do with this?
FreshTopEnd
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4/25/2013 2:38pm
the gp mx2 is like the 250 in the us, not the emx2. but emx2 are the same bike's. running the emx series is cheaper, for...
the gp mx2 is like the 250 in the us, not the emx2. but emx2 are the same bike's.

running the emx series is cheaper, for a team, and has no age limit. and the gp entry is like 1500 for 1 gp
the Emx has a entry of around 300 if i am corect.
Right, I understand EMX2 is not the "elite" class, although it's not age restricted like EMX1, and it looks like they have changed the rules to prevent someone with a GP license from entering. I'm curious if it's opened any opportunities for guys who had lined up at GPs in past years but are now priced out of the loop. Or are they consigned to the various continental national series?

The machines have the same 125 two stroke/250 four stroke rules as MX2, but are the guys staking the 250 four strokes and not using the 125's as in MX2 and here in the 250 class at the Outdoors? 94 riders is a ton, almost half again as many as in the EMX1 class. I'm sure some of it may be that there is more opportunity than with EMX1's age 17 limit, but the cost barrier seems to be a lot less about what type of engine it is and more about the participation cost.
newmann
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4/25/2013 3:04pm
Spartacus wrote:
The AMA knows what's best for us.
JW381 wrote:
They are all-knowing and all-powerful.
GrapeApe wrote:
What does the AMA have to do with this?
Just that they suck, are the devil and f'ing blind to the benefit of the 125 in the sport. Other than that, not much. Wink
newmann
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4/25/2013 3:07pm
You gotta admit it is a bit odd that they can't draw 20 entries for the premier world championship motocross class yet people are clawing their way in for a spot on the gate at the entry level to this same series. Luongo only has a couple years to turn these youngsters against the sport. Damn shame to ruin all that enthusiasm of the up and coming stars of the sport.
4/25/2013 3:08pm Edited Date/Time 4/25/2013 3:09pm
the gp mx2 is like the 250 in the us, not the emx2. but emx2 are the same bike's. running the emx series is cheaper, for...
the gp mx2 is like the 250 in the us, not the emx2. but emx2 are the same bike's.

running the emx series is cheaper, for a team, and has no age limit. and the gp entry is like 1500 for 1 gp
the Emx has a entry of around 300 if i am corect.
Right, I understand EMX2 is not the "elite" class, although it's not age restricted like EMX1, and it looks like they have changed the rules to...
Right, I understand EMX2 is not the "elite" class, although it's not age restricted like EMX1, and it looks like they have changed the rules to prevent someone with a GP license from entering. I'm curious if it's opened any opportunities for guys who had lined up at GPs in past years but are now priced out of the loop. Or are they consigned to the various continental national series?

The machines have the same 125 two stroke/250 four stroke rules as MX2, but are the guys staking the 250 four strokes and not using the 125's as in MX2 and here in the 250 class at the Outdoors? 94 riders is a ton, almost half again as many as in the EMX1 class. I'm sure some of it may be that there is more opportunity than with EMX1's age 17 limit, but the cost barrier seems to be a lot less about what type of engine it is and more about the participation cost.
I think the 94 riders to 68 discrepancy might have something to do with the "progression" stages like we see here in the U.S. also. Why take the time and money to ride a 125 for a year or two after getting off 80's when you can get a head start on a 250f and ride it for 1-2 seasons before committing to the class as a hopeful winner? By then you'll already have seat time on a bike you are familiar with when it's time to make that big push with resources to the front of the EMX2 pack.

Anyone know the entry fee difference between EMX125 and EMX2? What about travel schedule in relation to one another? I know both classes are not always together at a GP weekend. Some weekends it's 125 and others EMX2.
themrtoad
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4/26/2013 1:31am
One more thing to consider is the 108 % rule. If you are too much off the pace in timed practise you will not be allowed to take part in the races even if you paid your 1200 euro fee. This decision was made because there was such a difference in speed vs the top riders in MX1/MX2 and the local wildcards in the overseas events. This has made it less popular for wealthy but not fast enough riders to show up at the gp's.

Overall though you get the impression that there are less teams and riders that has the money to attend all the GP's. When they still want to race internationally EMX2 and EMX125 are the best option since MX3 is a total joke.

I still think MX2(GP) is pretty healthy despite the 23yo rule. MX1 however needs at least 8-10 more riders everything else is embarassing.
4/26/2013 3:55am
newmann wrote:
You gotta admit it is a bit odd that they can't draw 20 entries for the premier world championship motocross class yet people are clawing their...
You gotta admit it is a bit odd that they can't draw 20 entries for the premier world championship motocross class yet people are clawing their way in for a spot on the gate at the entry level to this same series. Luongo only has a couple years to turn these youngsters against the sport. Damn shame to ruin all that enthusiasm of the up and coming stars of the sport.
Strange what happens when there is not £1000 per round to pay to enter??!!

All the smaller teams and riders turn back up.



One day youthstream will stop claiming riders/team are frightened of entering GP's due to the speeds and realise its down to the horrific entry fee.....
Lone Wolf
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4/26/2013 4:21am Edited Date/Time 4/26/2013 5:47am
It seems more likely to me that this disparity in rider numbers is the result of the ridiculous GP entry fees than a genuine lust for two strokes. On the other hand, you could argue that the popularity of the EMX classes indicates they are fulfilling their intended purpose as development series.

Carry on with the two stroke circle jerk........
jamma10
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4/26/2013 4:45am
newmann wrote:
You gotta admit it is a bit odd that they can't draw 20 entries for the premier world championship motocross class yet people are clawing their...
You gotta admit it is a bit odd that they can't draw 20 entries for the premier world championship motocross class yet people are clawing their way in for a spot on the gate at the entry level to this same series. Luongo only has a couple years to turn these youngsters against the sport. Damn shame to ruin all that enthusiasm of the up and coming stars of the sport.
darren7878 wrote:
Strange what happens when there is not £1000 per round to pay to enter??!! All the smaller teams and riders turn back up. One day youthstream...
Strange what happens when there is not £1000 per round to pay to enter??!!

All the smaller teams and riders turn back up.



One day youthstream will stop claiming riders/team are frightened of entering GP's due to the speeds and realise its down to the horrific entry fee.....
When did YS claim riders and teams are frightened of entering GP's?

I agree with thertoad, MX3 is a complete waste of time, money and resources. Not only does it spread the wealth, it seems an pretty pointless championship with very little significance. Dissolving it would hopefully channel the efforts of riders, teams & sponsors back into the GPs where they should be.
4/26/2013 4:51am Edited Date/Time 4/26/2013 4:54am
newmann wrote:
You gotta admit it is a bit odd that they can't draw 20 entries for the premier world championship motocross class yet people are clawing their...
You gotta admit it is a bit odd that they can't draw 20 entries for the premier world championship motocross class yet people are clawing their way in for a spot on the gate at the entry level to this same series. Luongo only has a couple years to turn these youngsters against the sport. Damn shame to ruin all that enthusiasm of the up and coming stars of the sport.
darren7878 wrote:
Strange what happens when there is not £1000 per round to pay to enter??!! All the smaller teams and riders turn back up. One day youthstream...
Strange what happens when there is not £1000 per round to pay to enter??!!

All the smaller teams and riders turn back up.



One day youthstream will stop claiming riders/team are frightened of entering GP's due to the speeds and realise its down to the horrific entry fee.....
jamma10 wrote:
When did YS claim riders and teams are frightened of entering GP's? I agree with thertoad, MX3 is a complete waste of time, money and resources...
When did YS claim riders and teams are frightened of entering GP's?

I agree with thertoad, MX3 is a complete waste of time, money and resources. Not only does it spread the wealth, it seems an pretty pointless championship with very little significance. Dissolving it would hopefully channel the efforts of riders, teams & sponsors back into the GPs where they should be.
Youthstream have said its the 108% rule that is frightening riders off from entering the GPs. Then they point the finger at the manufactorers for requesting the introduction of the rule.


""but who has to carry the can for two GP motos tomorrow when every starter will score world championship points ? YS CEO Giuseppe Luongo was already insistent at the opening GP in Qatar: "The industry wanted 107% and I had to fight to even get 108%."


And that is why there were only 20 arrivals for the Bulgarian MX1 GP; who else was going to risk the travel costs and a grand inscription fee with the chance of no work after two training sessions""
4/26/2013 5:10am
125 emx is a great step from 85, it is stacked with good joung riders (Sileika, Pootjes, Vaessen, vd Vlist, Brevers). From 85 to 250emx (4-stroke) is a pretty big step.
There are also great national series in the Netherlands en Italia for 125 youth. And 300 euro per race, makes prox 150K in a year is also great business for Luongo. But it's a great series at nice tracks for young riders to get familiar with the GP series.

250EMX is great for riders who doesn't have the funding (and speed) to buy a seat in MX2 gp, race the same tracks (8 races). But if the GP's were healthy (80% of) this riders would try to qualify for MX2 gp.
newmann
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4/26/2013 6:35am
Lone Wolf wrote:
It seems more likely to me that this disparity in rider numbers is the result of the ridiculous GP entry fees than a genuine lust for...
It seems more likely to me that this disparity in rider numbers is the result of the ridiculous GP entry fees than a genuine lust for two strokes. On the other hand, you could argue that the popularity of the EMX classes indicates they are fulfilling their intended purpose as development series.

Carry on with the two stroke circle jerk........
Just keep telling yourself that the 250F has been good for the sport. Eventually you'll start believing it.Wink
themrtoad
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4/26/2013 6:41am
125 emx is a great step from 85, it is stacked with good joung riders (Sileika, Pootjes, Vaessen, vd Vlist, Brevers). From 85 to 250emx (4-stroke)...
125 emx is a great step from 85, it is stacked with good joung riders (Sileika, Pootjes, Vaessen, vd Vlist, Brevers). From 85 to 250emx (4-stroke) is a pretty big step.
There are also great national series in the Netherlands en Italia for 125 youth. And 300 euro per race, makes prox 150K in a year is also great business for Luongo. But it's a great series at nice tracks for young riders to get familiar with the GP series.

250EMX is great for riders who doesn't have the funding (and speed) to buy a seat in MX2 gp, race the same tracks (8 races). But if the GP's were healthy (80% of) this riders would try to qualify for MX2 gp.
I agree that I would like qualifying back in all classes of course. European rounds with a lower starting fee and some money back to riders that qualifies would turn the GP's back into something much more dynamic and would give more entertainment to the audience.

As it is now it's quite bizarre with a beautiful paddock à la F1 style, lot's of commercial stuff from monster but hardly any riders...add some grey skys and rain and you really get a feeling the end is near...
themrtoad
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4/26/2013 6:44am
newmann wrote:
Just keep telling yourself that the 250F has been good for the sport. Eventually you'll start believing it.Wink
I'm always willing to jump on to the anti 4stroke wagon. There are hardly any grassroot activity left to support the madness going on at the professional level and for that I blame the heavy/expensive turds some choose to call evolution.
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4/26/2013 7:42am
Lone Wolf wrote:
It seems more likely to me that this disparity in rider numbers is the result of the ridiculous GP entry fees than a genuine lust for...
It seems more likely to me that this disparity in rider numbers is the result of the ridiculous GP entry fees than a genuine lust for two strokes. On the other hand, you could argue that the popularity of the EMX classes indicates they are fulfilling their intended purpose as development series.

Carry on with the two stroke circle jerk........
newmann wrote:
Just keep telling yourself that the 250F has been good for the sport. Eventually you'll start believing it.Wink
Well, they pulled 90+ 250fs in emx2, so, I understand the love for emx1, but the main current in the thread is that emx2 is flush and mx2 is thin using the same 250f.

And what I guess I am trying to get is why and whether there's anything to learn, because it sure looks like its not the parts/maintenance cost, but the cost of buying in.

Are there guys in emx2 that are lapping within the108% range of mx2 or mx1?

But no doubt, Joe, they are pulling a good field of u18 kids on 125s.
FreshTopEnd
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4/26/2013 7:43am
Do they ever have races for the 125-500 emx open class?
newmann
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4/26/2013 7:46am
Lone Wolf wrote:
It seems more likely to me that this disparity in rider numbers is the result of the ridiculous GP entry fees than a genuine lust for...
It seems more likely to me that this disparity in rider numbers is the result of the ridiculous GP entry fees than a genuine lust for two strokes. On the other hand, you could argue that the popularity of the EMX classes indicates they are fulfilling their intended purpose as development series.

Carry on with the two stroke circle jerk........
newmann wrote:
Just keep telling yourself that the 250F has been good for the sport. Eventually you'll start believing it.Wink
Well, they pulled 90+ 250fs in emx2, so, I understand the love for emx1, but the main current in the thread is that emx2 is flush...
Well, they pulled 90+ 250fs in emx2, so, I understand the love for emx1, but the main current in the thread is that emx2 is flush and mx2 is thin using the same 250f.

And what I guess I am trying to get is why and whether there's anything to learn, because it sure looks like its not the parts/maintenance cost, but the cost of buying in.

Are there guys in emx2 that are lapping within the108% range of mx2 or mx1?

But no doubt, Joe, they are pulling a good field of u18 kids on 125s.
Your parade can continue down Elm, mine's going forward down Main.



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The Rock
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4/29/2013 11:50am
I think the 94 riders to 68 discrepancy might have something to do with the "progression" stages like we see here in the U.S. also. Why...
I think the 94 riders to 68 discrepancy might have something to do with the "progression" stages like we see here in the U.S. also. Why take the time and money to ride a 125 for a year or two after getting off 80's when you can get a head start on a 250f and ride it for 1-2 seasons before committing to the class as a hopeful winner? By then you'll already have seat time on a bike you are familiar with when it's time to make that big push with resources to the front of the EMX2 pack.

Anyone know the entry fee difference between EMX125 and EMX2? What about travel schedule in relation to one another? I know both classes are not always together at a GP weekend. Some weekends it's 125 and others EMX2.
I did a little investigating and here is the response I got from a friend across the pond:

1.Riders can enter freely the GP or the European Championship, but up until today the riders go from the European Championship to the GP and not the opposite. The list of riders who race in EMX125 / EMX250 are all young riders, there is only 1 rider who is 25 years-old.. Thanks to the large number of riders coming from the European Championship and the very demanding and technical race tracks, today the level of the MX1 and MX2 World Championships are very high and for this reason the young riders prefer to make 1 or 2 seasons in EMX125, then 1 or 2 seasons in EMX250 and then the best ones go to MX2.

2.There is no difference between the EMX125 and EMX250 – they both pay €300 and both are on live TV.

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