Environuts called my private track in.

early
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early 8/9/2019 6:52pm
8/9/2019 6:52pm
mikec265 wrote:
My neighbors mostly seem pretty cool. Of the 7 closest houses, 6 of them have guns, side x sides, atvs, and or tractors. There's one city...
My neighbors mostly seem pretty cool. Of the 7 closest houses, 6 of them have guns, side x sides, atvs, and or tractors. There's one city couple that no one really knows well. On top of that, one of them has a track back in and mostly out of sight. We cleared the prickers and brush for them. That track gas been there for almost 20 years, but hard to see from the road. There's a ton of bicyclist that use my road which is part of a yearly triathlon, or it could have been some old anti-fun twat. The DEP guy said it was anonymous, but he couldn't give me a name if he had one.
Anytime you talk to anyone make sure you get their full name, title, and what office they are working out of.
revolution mx 8/9/2019 6:53pm
8/9/2019 6:53pm
Everything LiP44 says is what to expect each state a little different but in SC it sucks.we are closed while we put in a storm water sediment plan from engineer$3000, 9 sediment ponds$10,000 with us doing all the work[equipment,pipe,rock,silt fence, poles,sediment tubes], throughout the track with sediment ditches surrounding the entire track 2ft berm [this is a permanent barrier silt fence has to be replaced]a construction permit$2500 from dhec before we can open back up after we get a final inspection.They were not happy we cleared land with out a permit .Hired a lawyer$3000 ,didnt make much of a difference you doing what ever they say unless you have piles of money.Study BMPs and put all you can in before they come and insure them you will do whatever is needed.Once you meet the requirements enjoy it,nothing better than your own track.
O yes it was a neighbor filed a complaint on me on silt runoff.Red clay kind of hard to hide.
Good luck.
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MxKing809
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MxKing809 8/9/2019 7:55pm
8/9/2019 7:55pm
zehn wrote:
When Vitards play constitutional lawyers Blink
You have no idea what any of us do for a career.....
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yak651
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yak651 8/9/2019 8:04pm
8/9/2019 8:04pm
yak651 wrote:
If nothing comes about this, I would plant a row of trees along the road to prevent people from seeing the track as they ride by...
If nothing comes about this, I would plant a row of trees along the road to prevent people from seeing the track as they ride by...

As others have said, try to find the reason for the visit and what they are looking for/want to see. Ask for an agenda for the visit.

Quick story that may or may not be relevant. A friend that has a track we ride at every Wednesday. The town constable came out one Wednesday saying he had complaints of races being held on the property. He said no, I know everyone of these people by name, no races, just a weekly ride session. The constable was then saying the neighbors complained the noise was scaring the wildlife away. A couple minutes after saying that a deer ran out into the track area, one buddy had to stop and wait for the deer to get off the track. The constable said ok, just try to keep the noise down and left. That was about 10 years ago. If it's in an agricultural district, most likely there are no noise restrictions. If there are, ask to see the ordinance because most likely every farmer in the area is breaking the rules during planting and harvesting season.
KMC440 wrote:
This wouldn't be near any drag strip would it ?
No, that's Tuesday night ride night track Smile
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mxbrian15
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mxbrian15 8/9/2019 8:08pm
8/9/2019 8:08pm
Lip44 wrote:
If I were to guess it looks like they’re going to be concerned about erosion & sediment leaving your property when it rains. I work as...
If I were to guess it looks like they’re going to be concerned about erosion & sediment leaving your property when it rains. I work as an engineer in PA and deal with the DEP / conservation districts all the time. If you disturb more than 5,000 SF of soil during any construction activity you need an erosion & sedimentation control plan and Best Management Practice’s (BMPs) installed onsite so you don’t discharge sediment from your property into the closest receiving waters (streams, lakes, wetlands, etc.). If you disturb more than 1 acre you will need a NPDES permit, which is very involved. Hopefully you didn’t blow out any wetlands or “sensitive environmental resources” as they put it when you built the track, that can cause some issues for you.

It looks like you’re in Edinboro which is in Erie County. Google Erie County Conservation District and go on their website. They are basically DEP’s branch organizations that handle E&S permitting on a local level (go under the permits & forms section, you might be able to get away with a low hazard plan if they bust your stones).

Good luck, DEP can be tough.
As a fellow engineer (civil), this is all correct information. If it’s my property, I’m putting silt fence around the perimeter ASAP, checking my property for erosion, fixing it, and making sure there is no sign of fueling or oil changes outside of a contained impervious area, inside of a structure. Also, good point about tires and other “debris” that could be considered an environmental impact.

Only difference is in Florida, NPDES permits aren’t very detailed/difficult.
1
Chance1216
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Chance1216 8/9/2019 8:47pm
8/9/2019 8:47pm
Get a metal cabinet with a lock on it to store ALL of your chemicals and gas cans in. Hoping nothing comes of it plant abrovitae hedges along your property line where the track is visible from the road when all is said and done. Stuff grows pretty quick and tall. A friend a few years ago had a plane fly over his property take pictures. He unfortunately he had to tear his track down after they came to inspect. Washington is lame sometimes. Good luck.
Just south of Paradise... 8/9/2019 10:10pm
8/9/2019 10:10pm
captmoto wrote:
Those government agencies don't deal on the phone. They will contact you by mail first. Tell anyone that shows up at your home to go piss...
Those government agencies don't deal on the phone. They will contact you by mail first. Tell anyone that shows up at your home to go piss up a rope.
Agreed. I would not talk to a "federal" employee over the phone until there has already been legitimate correspondence via US mail. I know the IRS at least will NEVER call you, maybe the EPA is different, but I doubt it. I bet you it is some jerk off neighbor who got your number and is just trying to scare you. Good luck!
bsharkey
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bsharkey 8/9/2019 10:45pm
8/9/2019 10:45pm
whyZ wrote:
You sure the guy that called from the EPA, and is coming isn't the Envrionut? Kinda seems fishy. You'd think that you would receive the initial...
You sure the guy that called from the EPA, and is coming isn't the Envrionut? Kinda seems fishy. You'd think that you would receive the initial contact in writing from any Federal agency stating exactly what the issues are, and the violation they are suspecting. I think I'd like a little more information before anyone comes looking around.
I agree some kind of formal paperwork or someone in a official car or I'd say dont let them on your property
DanDunes818
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DanDunes818 8/9/2019 10:49pm
8/9/2019 10:49pm
yz25 wrote:
Just a question.... Do you have to let them on your property? Do they need to have some type of paper work from the county etc...
Just a question.... Do you have to let them on your property? Do they need to have some type of paper work from the county etc? Should they have a list of what they may be looking for?

I was going to ask exactly this. NO way I let them come unless it's a "no choice" situation. Nothing good can come of it in my eyes, unless he plans on bringing his bikes and 5 gallons of gas.
Trav138
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Trav138 8/9/2019 10:58pm
8/9/2019 10:58pm
captmoto wrote:
Those government agencies don't deal on the phone. They will contact you by mail first. Tell anyone that shows up at your home to go piss...
Those government agencies don't deal on the phone. They will contact you by mail first. Tell anyone that shows up at your home to go piss up a rope.
Just south of Paradise... wrote:
Agreed. I would not talk to a "federal" employee over the phone until there has already been legitimate correspondence via US mail. I know the IRS...
Agreed. I would not talk to a "federal" employee over the phone until there has already been legitimate correspondence via US mail. I know the IRS at least will NEVER call you, maybe the EPA is different, but I doubt it. I bet you it is some jerk off neighbor who got your number and is just trying to scare you. Good luck!
This,
Was their first an official letter sent to you, by the agency, before the phone call?
I never heard of a US agency initiating contact through a random call, seems strange imo.
ninesevenfour 8/9/2019 11:22pm
8/9/2019 11:22pm
Someone else may be able to expand upon this before you spend money, but I think stabilization (seed and straw) in place, prior to the inspection, would go a long way..
Markee
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Markee 8/10/2019 6:12am
8/10/2019 6:12am
Reminds me, did anyone else have a stump you dumped all the used oil on? I did.
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Whymee
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Whymee 8/10/2019 6:15am
8/10/2019 6:15am
Markee wrote:
Reminds me, did anyone else have a stump you dumped all the used oil on? I did.
No, we used a groundhog hole... Shocked
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mx 219
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mx 219 8/10/2019 7:10am
8/10/2019 7:10am
DEP is different, they wont necessarily send you a letter.

Like i said, my dad works with them weekly. Ibwouldnt even hire a lawyer, it's a waste of your money. Ask the regulations and comply, or else pay the money needed to have a bigger track.
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DA498
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DA498 8/10/2019 8:04am
8/10/2019 8:04am
Markee wrote:
Reminds me, did anyone else have a stump you dumped all the used oil on? I did.
Whymee wrote:
No, we used a groundhog hole... Shocked
Dumped mine uphill of our well
dedi684
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dedi684 8/10/2019 8:09am
8/10/2019 8:09am
Gilby122 wrote:
My old house had a small track on the bottom of the 17 acres. Coincidentally my closest neighbor was a lawyer. He left me a vm...
My old house had a small track on the bottom of the 17 acres. Coincidentally my closest neighbor was a lawyer. He left me a vm one time saying he wanted to discuss my "motorcycle track building activities." I returned his call and left him a message, but never heard back. Next two times I rode he stood by the fence and watched me. I tried to throw a whip to impress him, but I suck and I really can't so I don't think he was too amused.

Irrelevant story. Maybe someone is just trying to 'scare' you. Hope it works out with minimal cost or trouble!!
Sounds like my neighbors except for the gunfire and threats. Hahahaha
theprizefighter 8/10/2019 8:15am
8/10/2019 8:15am
mikec265 wrote:
Has any dealt with the DEP/Environmental Protection Agency over a private track? I just got a call, and the guy is coming to inspect at 11am...
Has any dealt with the DEP/Environmental Protection Agency over a private track?

I just got a call, and the guy is coming to inspect at 11am Tuesday. Someone anonymous turned in a complaint about a race track being built.

The kids track has existed over a year with no complaints. No wetlands were disturbed. We don't ride after 5 pm out of courtesy. We don't ride if it's dusty. It was just a flat field of weeds that was cut.

Has anyone dealt with this and what are your experiences? I don't know what to expect.
Some people have nothing better to do than to find something to complain about. Sad. Hope all goes good for you.
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Markee
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Markee 8/10/2019 8:40am
8/10/2019 8:40am
mikec265 wrote:
Has any dealt with the DEP/Environmental Protection Agency over a private track? I just got a call, and the guy is coming to inspect at 11am...
Has any dealt with the DEP/Environmental Protection Agency over a private track?

I just got a call, and the guy is coming to inspect at 11am Tuesday. Someone anonymous turned in a complaint about a race track being built.

The kids track has existed over a year with no complaints. No wetlands were disturbed. We don't ride after 5 pm out of courtesy. We don't ride if it's dusty. It was just a flat field of weeds that was cut.

Has anyone dealt with this and what are your experiences? I don't know what to expect.
theprizefighter wrote:
Some people have nothing better to do than to find something to complain about. Sad. Hope all goes good for you.
Some of those end up here.
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Crossup
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Crossup 8/10/2019 8:56am
8/10/2019 8:56am
Rupert X wrote:
I’m a rebel, Dottie. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/08/09/365478/s1200_65FAE98C_FC4C_4631_867D_7F9E24B21D8F.jpg[/img]
I’m a rebel, Dottie.

Looks like a nice place to walk my chihuahua. Blink
ama530
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ama530 8/10/2019 9:08am
8/10/2019 9:08am
Does the township authority have an issues with your track? Did you need permits for some stupid reason? It really comes down to them. The DEP/EPA will not call you either. They would send a representative out directly. Somebody is pulling a fast one and trying to scare you and cause problems. If there is an issue with sediment runoff, be proactive and put silt fencing in the lowest part of your track where the runoff might occur. If it is legit, be professional and willing to listen to them. Good luck.
SEE ARE125
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SEE ARE125 8/10/2019 9:28am
8/10/2019 9:28am
Throw some annual ryegrass seed down and keep it wet. Being an annual grass it’ll die next year, but it germinates in like 3 days and within a week or so you’ll have a nice stand of grass which will help with their erosion concern. By the time the annual ryegrass dies next summer, mother nature will have done her work and have it filled in with native vegetation over this fall and next spring. The key is keeping it moist though, not sure if that’s possible there.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 8/10/2019 10:46am
8/10/2019 10:46am
ama530 wrote:
Does the township authority have an issues with your track? Did you need permits for some stupid reason? It really comes down to them. The DEP/EPA...
Does the township authority have an issues with your track? Did you need permits for some stupid reason? It really comes down to them. The DEP/EPA will not call you either. They would send a representative out directly. Somebody is pulling a fast one and trying to scare you and cause problems. If there is an issue with sediment runoff, be proactive and put silt fencing in the lowest part of your track where the runoff might occur. If it is legit, be professional and willing to listen to them. Good luck.
I don’t know about the EPA, but our state’s Department of Ecology has called me many times in the past. My personal experiences have been mostly positive, but I’ve also been mostly proactive in initiating contact before I do anything close to waterways and such. I’ve heard of folks having a tougher time, but they have usually been due to continued noncompliance or blatant violations.

I actually had a County compliance officer who gave me a blanket, written authorization to cut up to 6 large trees per year in a riparian zone if I had trouble with beaver and all I had to do was email him pictures of a before and after picture for his records. Our neighbor who has been fined for riparian zone violations was amazed.

My suggestion would be to try to not spend too much time outside showing him every little detail, but stress to him that you want to be a good steward and ask for things that you can do to get in whatever compliance you need to be. If you display any desire to be “eco-friendly”, I’ve found that the compliance officers are much more helpful and much more lenient because they feel that you are at least making an effort.
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Bogger
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Bogger 8/10/2019 6:52pm
8/10/2019 6:52pm
Our country is getting pretty screwed up when you need to have permission to cut down trees on your own property. Vote accordingly.
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 8/10/2019 7:15pm
8/10/2019 7:15pm
Rupert X wrote:
I’m a rebel, Dottie. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/08/09/365478/s1200_65FAE98C_FC4C_4631_867D_7F9E24B21D8F.jpg[/img]
I’m a rebel, Dottie.
Can we be friends? And by friends I mean I’ll bring a $2 pack of hotdogs and a 6 pack and you let me ride that amazing track! Grinning
4
Tokyo_Tiddler 8/11/2019 1:41am
8/11/2019 1:41am
I think you will be challenged on noise first and then dust.. what stands out is your track is right under the noses of several neighboring houses and right alongside the road.. a screen of big trees would have made a big difference in my mind, but where it is set up is IMHO just asking for trouble unless you got the prior consent of all those houses along one side of the track.
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mikec265
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mikec265 8/11/2019 7:16am
8/11/2019 7:16am
Silt fence is up properly with the bottom of it in the ground up to the lines. Turns out my new neighbor's sister works for the DEP around here. This is a neighbor who had his small track (left from the previous owner) cleared and modified to be safe for pitbike and side by sides. We cleared it for him for free when we rented the dozer for a week. Anyhow she said we should be good with the effort we put in. Maybe plant some rye grass to make it green. Once 80% of it is green again, the silt fence is no longer needed. I'm not very worried about it. Just wish I knew who reported it, but I'll probably never know so screw it.
mikec265
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mikec265 8/11/2019 7:19am
8/11/2019 7:19am
ama530 wrote:
Does the township authority have an issues with your track? Did you need permits for some stupid reason? It really comes down to them. The DEP/EPA...
Does the township authority have an issues with your track? Did you need permits for some stupid reason? It really comes down to them. The DEP/EPA will not call you either. They would send a representative out directly. Somebody is pulling a fast one and trying to scare you and cause problems. If there is an issue with sediment runoff, be proactive and put silt fencing in the lowest part of your track where the runoff might occur. If it is legit, be professional and willing to listen to them. Good luck.
Everyone I know around here who runs equipment for a living says I don't need permits here.
mx 219
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mx 219 8/13/2019 3:19pm
8/13/2019 3:19pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 3:20pm
Whats the update?

Dont need permits, but there are still rules and regulations. Government doesnt care if you are Chad Reed or mikec265, rules are rules.
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mikec265
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mikec265 8/13/2019 3:59pm
8/13/2019 3:59pm
They showed up this morning. Seemed like decent people. They'll be back in 30 days. I had silt fence up and they didn't require any more fence. Yesterday I planted some rhygrass which will grow in 4 to 10 days. I have to show them a dust control plan which only has to consist of a 300 gallon tote on a trailer. They thought the Alta was pretty cool. The township zoning guy came along with the conservation guy. Pretty much, we're fine as long as we don't ride at obscene hours, or dust the neighbors out.
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slowgti
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slowgti 8/13/2019 4:04pm
8/13/2019 4:04pm
That's a much better outcome than I was expecting. Congratulations on keeping your track!
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