Engineering Data for Dirt Bikes?

Related:
Create New Tag

10/21/2015 12:07 PM

I wasn't sure where to post this, but it's some what moto related so I guess I put it here in hopes of catching the right attention? Anyways, apologies if it's wrong place, new to this forum.

Im a 19 year old that is pursing in making a career as a CAD Designer, or related title. Basically I'm really into engineering and 3d modeling. I have a lot of experience with CAD and pretty much self taught for the most part besides a few AP classes.

Now anything can be modeled but you need the measurements and data to do so. My question is where do these teams and companies obtain their data in order to accurately manufacturer aftermarket products? Do/can they purchase it from the manufacturer? Wish I would could have thought of this question when Jeremy Albrecht was the vital member of the week... now I'm sure JGR with Yamaha support can get any data they want from them, wouldn't even surprise me if they had the engineered CAD models straight from Yamaha. But how do the aftermarket companies get their specs?

Reverse engineering? Purchase it? I mean if you have a set of stock triple clamps I suppose you could 3D Scan it and get a accurate set of data off of it, but that's not cheap at all. You could measure it, but that increases the probability of human error right?

I was wanting to make some moto-related parts for a resume builder and just further my experience with CAD. For instance a set of triple clamps, obviously it's easy to know the fork diameter but how do I know the distance center to center of the forks? Or accurate data of the steering stem? I'm sure the actual manufacturing tolerances for anything dealing with the chassis is tight, so manually measuring something seems unrealistic to me.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

|

10/21/2015 12:17 PM

I would guess a lot of it is via purchase. I know more than a few aftermarket manufacturers borrow bikes from consumers (and occasionally media) who get them early,so they can get do engineering, or test fitment.

|

10/21/2015 12:34 PM

I work as mechanical engineer and I think no original drawings goes out of factory development. Measurements these days can get you any part in CAD program really quick.

Check these: http://www.romer.com/

We have one in our company, I'm used to working with it and the thing is around 30K € with software. Can save a lot of money.

|

10/21/2015 12:41 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2015 12:44 PM

I'm not in the moto industry, but from my engineering experience I expect that most parts are simply reverse engineered using careful measurement and R&D. I don't expect OEMs are sharing many (if any) design details with anyone other than a factory supported race teams, or possibly in rare instances when aftermarket parts are sold through the OEM (GYTR or KTM PowerParts FMF exhaust, for example).

Triple clamps would be relatively easy to reverse engineer using basic inspection and measurement tools (calipers, micrometers, dial indicators, etc.). I'm sure plenty of aftermarket companies are using a CMM (coordinate measuring machine) to take measurements and plot them in XYZ coordinates, from there you can generate a CAD model. CMM and laser scanners would really help if you are reverse engineering complex geometry like a front fender or some other reproduction plastic part.

|

Follow or donate to my girlfriend's spinal cord injury recovery efforts at Yvonne's Path Through Paralysis

10/21/2015 12:46 PM

You are swimming upstream. The CAD skills you are learning will depend on supplied data. Now you are asking where that data comes from. You need to know how to measure. Most schools do not reinforce dimensional metrology. Don't get hung up on 3d scanning. You need greater accuracy. No disrespect, but your CAD skills are not an acceptable replacement for an engineering degree. Be careful what you make, it could cost someone their life.

|

10/21/2015 12:46 PM

I agree with mxrudi... you aren't going to get drawings, especially out of Japan. I reverse engineer using a 6-axis Romer arm with Dezignworks software running inside Solidworks.

|

10/21/2015 1:04 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2015 1:06 PM

Suggestion would be if you are serious about being a "designer" then get a Mechanical Engineering degree. If you want >"a career as a CAD Designer, or related title" you are inline with at least a million (?) people who have "an interest". Almost nobody will higher you to design product with only an "interest", more people will let you in the "door" with an ME degree. Second suggestion would be get a job with a company that "makes" things / products, preferably all in-house. Because along with a ME degree you can get in "lots" of doors if you have hands-on experience. Yeah it sucks but you have to start at the bottom. I say all this sincerely because I see lots of people who are CAD "jockeys" but have very little clue how to "make" something. Knowing how to make things will make you a "top" designer.

GuyB's reply above is correct (my opinion). Most manufacture will probably give you "zero" in terms of CAD data, that's called intellectual property - they keep it well protected. Reverse engineering is probably how 95% of aftermarket companies get there data. Yeah you have to actually measure and create your own. 3D scanning can do some stuff but simply measuring properly is much easier and cheaper for most things.

I've done product design for 30+ years, knowing "how" to get from an "idea" all the way to a "product" is what you really need to know. Read Vital and you'll see "ideas" are free, go talk to anyone who makes products and you learn that ideas are just a small piece of the picture. Not knocking on you for having an interest in CAD design, just trying to help you go far. Getting the "data" from a triple clamp is pretty simple, knowing how to "design" them is not.

|

Paul Swinney - Part time Euro-Cycles..... Ah, the good stuff

10/21/2015 1:08 PM

SouthwestMfg wrote:

Suggestion would be if you are serious about being a "designer" then get a Mechanical Engineering degree. If you want >"a career as a CAD Designer, or related title" you are inline with at least a million (?) people who have "an interest". Almost nobody will higher you to design product with only an "interest", more people will let you in the "door" with an ME degree. Second suggestion would be get a job with a company that "makes" things / products, preferably all in-house. Because along with a ME degree you can get in "lots" of doors if you have hands-on experience. Yeah it sucks but you have to start at the bottom. I say all this sincerely because I see lots of people who are CAD "jockeys" but have very little clue how to "make" something. Knowing how to make things will make you a "top" designer.

GuyB's reply above is correct (my opinion). Most manufacture will probably give you "zero" in terms of CAD data, that's called intellectual property - they keep it well protected. Reverse engineering is probably how 95% of aftermarket companies get there data. Yeah you have to actually measure and create your own. 3D scanning can do some stuff but simply measuring properly is much easier and cheaper for most things.

I've done product design for 30+ years, knowing "how" to get from an "idea" all the way to a "product" is what you really need to know. Read Vital and you'll see "ideas" are free, go talk to anyone who makes products and you learn that ideas are just a small piece of the picture. Not knocking on you for having an interest in CAD design, just trying to help you go far. Getting the "data" from a triple clamp is pretty simple, knowing how to "design" them is not.

I deal with a few companies who could use more of you in their engineering departments. I absolutely cannot stand having to call a customer and tell them their drawings are 100% impossible to machine to spec. A lot of engineers think because it works on the computer, it works in the real world and it absolutely does not.

|

10/21/2015 1:56 PM

Dtat720 wrote:

I deal with a few companies who could use more of you in their engineering departments. I absolutely cannot stand having to call a customer and tell them their drawings are 100% impossible to machine to spec. A lot of engineers think because it works on the computer, it works in the real world and it absolutely does not.

False. If it works on a computer, it works in real life. Computers are real life.

|

10/21/2015 1:59 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2015 2:00 PM

Sprew wrote:

You are swimming upstream. The CAD skills you are learning will depend on supplied data. Now you are asking where that data comes from. You need to know how to measure. Most schools do not reinforce dimensional metrology. Don't get hung up on 3d scanning. You need greater accuracy. No disrespect, but your CAD skills are not an acceptable replacement for an engineering degree. Be careful what you make, it could cost someone their life.

No disrespect taken, I agree with you entirely! Exactly why I'm asking how they obtain the data in real world applications. I didn't really expect a company to just hand over engineering data to another company, but I can't imagine a company building a part that demands accuracy with a hand held caliper, and well now I know things like the Romer Arm exists. Wish my college class would have gone over things like this.

Thanks for all the replies extremely helpful guys!

I'm not currently in school... I have a pretty good thing setup right now that is pretty much why I am not in school, I do contractual work for a logistics company. Anything that needs a drawing or model I handle. Conceptual models, re-drawing engineering drawing into digital form, flow diagrams, etc.

I'm always looking at the future though and I like to progress my work and learn. I don't want open doors to be closed before I even have a chance to walk up to it, if that makes sense. You never know where the future has in store, my only worry right now is if my work experience and a portfolio speak in volumes of what a degree would. (CAD wise)

Is a degree everything for this particular career? From the sounds of it you basically have to be mechanical engineer with CAD experience and not the other way around. If that's the case you can't obviously call your self any type of engineer (both legally and ethically) without a degree.

Again thanks for the insightful replies!

EDIT: just read some of the replies that happened as I was typing, that answered a few of my questions. Thanks guys!

|

10/21/2015 2:36 PM

My friend works at an aftermarket company for the auto industry. They are a certified parts manufacturer for several manufacturers and also specialize in the aftermarket. The manufacturer provides CAD files to him for the new cars they work on. For the other parts they use a CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) and a 3D printer to test fit parts. I'm sure the drawings come with an NDA and a price that a small industry guy would not be able to afford.

|

10/21/2015 2:39 PM

Sprew wrote:

You are swimming upstream. The CAD skills you are learning will depend on supplied data. Now you are asking where that data comes from. You need to know how to measure. Most schools do not reinforce dimensional metrology. Don't get hung up on 3d scanning. You need greater accuracy. No disrespect, but your CAD skills are not an acceptable replacement for an engineering degree. Be careful what you make, it could cost someone their life.

Amen brother.

Reverse engineering these days is pretty easy , we have GOM scanners, full photogrametry suites, Leica lazer trackers and Romer arms with Laser heads on them. Did a full scan of a A330 landing gear forging , in under an hour yesterday with some new stuff Nikon were demo'ing .. but all it is is a dumb CAD file , it tells you what you have, it doesnt tell you what its supposed to be , and what tolerances it was made to.. somebody has to have the skill to know about limits & fits & GD&T before you can start to think about making anything at all.

I have to explain daily why putting a 3d picture on a peice of paper and typing CAD is Master, is not design for manufacture, by guys that have and engineering degree , but couldnt produce a drawing that you could actually make something properly from and have it work.

All that scanning gets you is a ballpark start point , just because you can make something on a screen in CAD doesnt make you a designer , any more than working a flight simulator on your computer makes you a pilot.

Old school design started on paper, if you couldnt draw it , you couldnt machine it , and a design guy who new his way round a pencil was worth his weight in gold,

These days, CAD designers are 10 a penny, what you cant get is people to make the stuff, and know what they are doing , and people to measure it.

Technology is awesome , make no mistake , but nothing beats a sound base in Metrology and Machining.. if it was up to me , nobody would get to use a CAD station until they know what they are doing.

Work on practical experience , hands on stuff, and listen to miserable old bastards like me , who will impart more knowledge that any CAD lecturer who never went home smelling of cutting oil
I sit behind one of these most days , accurate to 0.0026mm , we have 2 machines that are 0.0006mm capable


url=

]Revo demo[/url]
|

10/21/2015 2:49 PM

Cadpro18 wrote:

I agree with mxrudi... you aren't going to get drawings, especially out of Japan. I reverse engineer using a 6-axis Romer arm with Dezignworks software running inside Solidworks.

youve got a seat of dezignworks? awesome! ive used those guys several times for my 500AF project. they spit me out solidworks files ready to go.

|


-'09 KX500AF

- '19 KX450F

10/21/2015 2:50 PM

I work for an OEM that has some accessories designed and manufactured by 3rd party companies. We absolutely provide CAD data and blueprints for product development.... to the right people. You would have to be a licensed business with a trade reputation that I could count on, and you would have to sign a very threatening non-disclosure agreement. Your company would have to have a signed vendor agreement with us as well - in other words, it helps to be doing business with us already. If not, you'll have to have a very compelling reason to become a new vendor. (Kick-ass quality, great ideas, low costs, etc.)

I'd say get your degree, get hired on at a company that already does those things, learn the ropes, then start your own business. Good luck!

|

Braaapin' aint easy.

10/21/2015 2:55 PM

m121c wrote:

No disrespect taken, I agree with you entirely! Exactly why I'm asking how they obtain the data in real world applications. I didn't really expect a company to just hand over engineering data to another company, but I can't imagine a company building a part that demands accuracy with a hand held caliper, and well now I know things like the Romer Arm exists. Wish my college class would have gone over things like this.

Thanks for all the replies extremely helpful guys!

I'm not currently in school... I have a pretty good thing setup right now that is pretty much why I am not in school, I do contractual work for a logistics company. Anything that needs a drawing or model I handle. Conceptual models, re-drawing engineering drawing into digital form, flow diagrams, etc.

I'm always looking at the future though and I like to progress my work and learn. I don't want open doors to be closed before I even have a chance to walk up to it, if that makes sense. You never know where the future has in store, my only worry right now is if my work experience and a portfolio speak in volumes of what a degree would. (CAD wise)

Is a degree everything for this particular career? From the sounds of it you basically have to be mechanical engineer with CAD experience and not the other way around. If that's the case you can't obviously call your self any type of engineer (both legally and ethically) without a degree.

Again thanks for the insightful replies!

EDIT: just read some of the replies that happened as I was typing, that answered a few of my questions. Thanks guys!

on the triple clamp question... none of those dimensions are hard to find. with a couple ID mics, and a set of calipers you could have a rough sketch in an hr under half thou tolerance.
think about what people did before CMM arms.
also, keep in mind that CMM arms arent the end all be all for accuracy. they are great for measuring complex shapes that would be hard/impossible to do with traditional methods. they do have tolerance ranges, i want to say the mid level Faro arm that does like 2' radius can hit like sub .005 on a good day or so.

in regards to your path. do you want to sit behind a computer and be a CAD drawer all day or does engineering interest you, aka, are you good at math. haha.

|


-'09 KX500AF

- '19 KX450F

10/21/2015 3:03 PM

m121c wrote:

No disrespect taken, I agree with you entirely! Exactly why I'm asking how they obtain the data in real world applications. I didn't really expect a company to just hand over engineering data to another company, but I can't imagine a company building a part that demands accuracy with a hand held caliper, and well now I know things like the Romer Arm exists. Wish my college class would have gone over things like this.

Thanks for all the replies extremely helpful guys!

I'm not currently in school... I have a pretty good thing setup right now that is pretty much why I am not in school, I do contractual work for a logistics company. Anything that needs a drawing or model I handle. Conceptual models, re-drawing engineering drawing into digital form, flow diagrams, etc.

I'm always looking at the future though and I like to progress my work and learn. I don't want open doors to be closed before I even have a chance to walk up to it, if that makes sense. You never know where the future has in store, my only worry right now is if my work experience and a portfolio speak in volumes of what a degree would. (CAD wise)

Is a degree everything for this particular career? From the sounds of it you basically have to be mechanical engineer with CAD experience and not the other way around. If that's the case you can't obviously call your self any type of engineer (both legally and ethically) without a degree.

Again thanks for the insightful replies!

EDIT: just read some of the replies that happened as I was typing, that answered a few of my questions. Thanks guys!

I guess you have zero experience with any measuring tools, (don't take this negatively) I measure parts we make daily with hand held tools with accuracy up to 0.0001" Spend some time in a machine shop if you would like to learn how to reverse engineer parts. You would be surprised how accurate of measurements you'd be able to take from simple inspection tools (dial indicators, gauge blocks, micrometers)
I could easily give you all the measurements you would need to design a set triple clamps within 25 minutes on my inspection table

|

10/21/2015 3:11 PM

diz330 wrote:

I guess you have zero experience with any measuring tools, (don't take this negatively) I measure parts we make daily with hand held tools with accuracy up to 0.0001" Spend some time in a machine shop if you would like to learn how to reverse engineer parts. You would be surprised how accurate of measurements you'd be able to take from simple inspection tools (dial indicators, gauge blocks, micrometers)
I could easily give you all the measurements you would need to design a set triple clamps within 25 minutes on my inspection table

We make all our apprentices and new graduates take a 2 day practical course on first principles measurement. In house with one of our bench guys.If nothing else it makes them realise that they dont know the first thing about the thing that they really need to know.

|

10/21/2015 3:52 PM

Regarding my measuring experience @Diz330 - I won't lie and say I have tons. I know the capabilities of hand measuring tools with my limited experience with them, and they can be very accurate tools no doubt.

Based on a few responses I may be making myself seem a little vague, but I'm trying to not write a book about myself. Believe me I definitely don't want to be that guy that designs something not practical, I deal with that when I'm designing for my current job. I currently design oil flow stations, now the accuracy and measuring isn't exactly as crucial as say manufacturing or product design, but still you have to have many things in mind while you design, I get that concept forsure.

@PhilG - You are completely right with what you said, you need to know more than just the CAD model you make. Seems to be the jist of most of the replies, which is good to know, now I know what I need to focus on.

Like I said I'm pretty much self taught besides a handful of Intro College course so I learn of what I have available. Obviously software being about the only thing I can have available to me outside of a educational system or business, I definitely know a lot on the software side. I see I need to focus on the mechanical and hands on side to go where I want, especially if it's in the manufacturing field.

Again thanks to all the replies, really cool to have input from people that actually do it. It's a big help.

|

10/21/2015 4:00 PM

Some where in the world of cool titles someone started calling themselves a "designer" to impress the ladies I suppose. If all you know is how to make the software make pictures your a draftsmen( or draftsperson to not offend anyone). A designer in my book knows a ton of physics, math and practical experience to go along with it. You have to be able to understand the forces both on the part and within it to make it. The true designer for racing takes that part and makes it lighter, smaller and stronger.

|

10/21/2015 4:18 PM

Great thread

|

10/21/2015 5:55 PM

As many here have said, designing is not as straightforward as it would seem when you are behind the computer. Having accurate starting data, designing correctly in the computer, selecting the correct materials and getting a part actually made all come with their own difficulties.

Its good that you have a job, but it sounds like it doesnt give you alot of real world experience. See if theres anyway you can get into a machine shop in some capacity or try to find a way to work closer with engineers. If you really like it and want to pursue design engineering then i would highly suggest going to school for engineering. A degree and experience is required for most design jobs. 15 years ago even CAD was more time consuming so drafters were employed. Not so much anymore.

|

10/21/2015 8:21 PM

m121c wrote:

No disrespect taken, I agree with you entirely! Exactly why I'm asking how they obtain the data in real world applications. I didn't really expect a company to just hand over engineering data to another company, but I can't imagine a company building a part that demands accuracy with a hand held caliper, and well now I know things like the Romer Arm exists. Wish my college class would have gone over things like this.

Thanks for all the replies extremely helpful guys!

I'm not currently in school... I have a pretty good thing setup right now that is pretty much why I am not in school, I do contractual work for a logistics company. Anything that needs a drawing or model I handle. Conceptual models, re-drawing engineering drawing into digital form, flow diagrams, etc.

I'm always looking at the future though and I like to progress my work and learn. I don't want open doors to be closed before I even have a chance to walk up to it, if that makes sense. You never know where the future has in store, my only worry right now is if my work experience and a portfolio speak in volumes of what a degree would. (CAD wise)

Is a degree everything for this particular career? From the sounds of it you basically have to be mechanical engineer with CAD experience and not the other way around. If that's the case you can't obviously call your self any type of engineer (both legally and ethically) without a degree.

Again thanks for the insightful replies!

EDIT: just read some of the replies that happened as I was typing, that answered a few of my questions. Thanks guys!

You can absolutely be accurate with mic's and indicators. If you don't know this then you need to learn to use the tools. I'm also in the opinion that you should be able to hit numbers on manual machines before you run cnc machines. Hitting certain numbers to within .0005" can be a black art depending on the material and what you are doing. There are tricks that need to be learned. It isn't always a matter of telling the machine you want a hole that is 1.2505".

I was taught by a bunch of disgruntled old men who believed in learning everything the hard way first and it makes a big difference.

|

10/22/2015 2:10 AM

The thing about triple clamps isnt being able to make or replicate them, the REAL magic in making triple clamps is being able to mimic the flex characteristics of the OEM ones.I dont care hoe "pretty" they are, I cant count how many times ive used aftermarket triple clamps (some REALLY expensive ones from reputable companies) and absolutely hated the way they made my bike "feel"....up until a week ago I didnt know that Ride Engineering actually tries to solve this puzzle, well thats according to Matthes and the Ride Eng ads taken out BUT it is the first time Ive heard of an aftermarket triple clamp mfg actually working on that side of things.

Ive always wondered why more didnt focus on that. There are just some parts that need to stay OEM in my opinion and triple calmps (for me) is one of them. When the bike is designed by the mfg it is designed with ALL of the parts working together in unison whic a vital part are the flex charisticts of the triple clamps engineered into the frame design for overall flex, one cannot work as designed without the other.

|

10/22/2015 2:54 AM

Unfortunately for the naive, the moto market is littered with products that are promoted with a good engineering theory behind them, where in reality ......... Throw in the DIY factor that most moto enthusiasts love and your struck gold.

|

10/22/2015 9:42 AM

Sprew wrote:

You are swimming upstream. The CAD skills you are learning will depend on supplied data. Now you are asking where that data comes from. You need to know how to measure. Most schools do not reinforce dimensional metrology. Don't get hung up on 3d scanning. You need greater accuracy. No disrespect, but your CAD skills are not an acceptable replacement for an engineering degree. Be careful what you make, it could cost someone their life.

philG wrote:

Amen brother.

Reverse engineering these days is pretty easy , we have GOM scanners, full photogrametry suites, Leica lazer trackers and Romer arms with Laser heads on them. Did a full scan of a A330 landing gear forging , in under an hour yesterday with some new stuff Nikon were demo'ing .. but all it is is a dumb CAD file , it tells you what you have, it doesnt tell you what its supposed to be , and what tolerances it was made to.. somebody has to have the skill to know about limits & fits & GD&T before you can start to think about making anything at all.

I have to explain daily why putting a 3d picture on a peice of paper and typing CAD is Master, is not design for manufacture, by guys that have and engineering degree , but couldnt produce a drawing that you could actually make something properly from and have it work.

All that scanning gets you is a ballpark start point , just because you can make something on a screen in CAD doesnt make you a designer , any more than working a flight simulator on your computer makes you a pilot.

Old school design started on paper, if you couldnt draw it , you couldnt machine it , and a design guy who new his way round a pencil was worth his weight in gold,

These days, CAD designers are 10 a penny, what you cant get is people to make the stuff, and know what they are doing , and people to measure it.

Technology is awesome , make no mistake , but nothing beats a sound base in Metrology and Machining.. if it was up to me , nobody would get to use a CAD station until they know what they are doing.

Work on practical experience , hands on stuff, and listen to miserable old bastards like me , who will impart more knowledge that any CAD lecturer who never went home smelling of cutting oil
I sit behind one of these most days , accurate to 0.0026mm , we have 2 machines that are 0.0006mm capable


url=

]Revo demo[/url]

Bingo - actually most of the replies are "Very" good, you should really take them to heart and I looks like you have.

Not to put a damper on what your doing now but getting where you want to go without a ME degree is a hard fight. Being a good ME without any "real" shop experience is also a hard fight. My only complaint with most colege programs is they require little or "no" shop hours - sad.

m121c - get to California, you can intern at my shop anytime. MCAD and machine tools are the future "today", there are way to few people who can do this stuff.

|

Paul Swinney - Part time Euro-Cycles..... Ah, the good stuff

10/22/2015 1:31 PM

Yeah , on the flip side, if you can get in with the right people, and by that , i mean craftsmen and skilled machinists and manufacturing engineers, you can learn an awful lot, that most will be glad to pass on, and if you nail down a design job, those guys will have more time for you than a someone who just has spaceball blisters.

Get yourself a copy of ASME Y14.5 and read it , lots.

|

10/22/2015 1:50 PM

This is an interesting topic.

I would have to say that our best design engineers at work are the one's who have spent massive amounts of time with our product in the shop and in the fields. They have a much more fundamental approach on how to make things that work and assemble well. Many, many times, they are not overly-strong in drafting or 3D modeling, but they are good enough to get the job done.

I've seen other design engineers who are incredibly talented at modeling and come up with some wicked stuff, but like others have said, their expectation of what's in the software is not always practical to manufacture. In my opinion, that's what makes a design engineer less skilled if it's not practical to manufacturer something. Anyone can be taught how to model and draft, but not everyone can be taught mechanical aptitude and how to have the understanding of mechanization.

I have personal experience with all of this because I am a Manufacturing Engineer. I'm the guy who actually has to figure out how in the hell we're going to build what the DEs have called for. I always prefer the designs of those guys who just plain get it. They build a functional product with assembly and serviceability in mind.

If you are wanting to work for a large corporation, you most likely are going to need a degree. That's just what it is this day in age. There are exceptions, but not many. If you don't want to pay for school, get a job in a machine shop. Try to get into an apprenticeship program that pays you to learn. Learn the measuring tools and how to machine. Learn how to read drawings. If you have the opportunity to cross-train as a welder, there's also a lot of value in understanding those processes.

What else do you want to know?

I would suggest that you should not model and try to manufacture parts to put on other people's bikes unless you are protected by an incorporation or corporation. If something goes wrong, you can and will be sued faster than you can react. It's not worth it. Experiment with stuff on your bike only.

|

10/22/2015 2:26 PM

I didnt get into manufacturing , because back when i was doing my apprenticeship, i was tagged to do quality, and given the choice of playing with a CMM , or working with cast iron , i picked the cleaner option.

These days it a lot better, but the skills have transferred to the ME's more and more with 5 axis stuff, you cant just program it on the fly like the 3 axis machines.

|

10/22/2015 5:18 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/22/2015 6:19 PM

Lots of excellent replies to this thread. Vitards might be smarter than they let onsmile Seriously though, One thought before I begin. I have used many drafting / CAD systems from pen & ink through to Solidworks. The ease with which the latest software works is both amazing and dangerous in the hands of the unskilled.

I have been lucky/ skilled enough to have made a living as a "designer" in the motorcycle industry for nearly 20 years. I don't have an engineering degree but if I could go back in time I would have spent the time to get one. That been said, 4 years of school will never prepare you for real world. Think about all the big names in the industry Payton, Emler, Pops Yoshimura, etc., etc. None of these guys are engineers. The way I explain it is this. Design is about asking what is possible, engineering is answering that question. Obviously both are critical to a positive result and all these guys and many others are very skilled "dirt under the finger nails" engineers. Don't get me wrong, everyone's comments resonate strongly with me, but you have to ask yourself this, Do I have a passion for making things? I work primarly in the V-Twin side of the business and a lot of "Bikers" think that they would be really good and designing parts because they built a couple of custom choppers in their garage. The truth is that navigating between passion and manufacturing experience is where the whole thing shakes out. Good luck m121c, find your passion and get after it.

|

10/22/2015 8:35 PM

Wow, this is a really awesome thread! I have a question for those who have been through an engineering program though. I'm currently in my third year working toward a ME degree in the UC system, and I'm getting a little bit concerned about getting any hands on experience at this point. It seems like all we do is a bunch of book problems that are not realistic to what we will see once we graduate. The only hands on experience I have (other than some simple garage fabrication when I was growing up) is a machining course, but that only taught us a limited amount. My question to you guys is did you get a lot of hands on experience during college, or did it all pretty much come after you graduated or through your own means? I just don't want to be one of those guys who graduates and has no idea what they are doing other than a bunch of theoretical book work. I think I'm on the right track since I know a lot mechanically and understand how machines work, but I'm a lot more interested in physically doing things than solving meaningless book problems and it seems like that is what is in store for the future. Should I, at this point, be creating my own projects and machining them in order to gain some real experience, or is that something that comes later on? I'm sorry for the long and somewhat jumbled post, I've just been thinking lately that there is so little emphasis on how to actually apply what we have learned that it's starting to worry me a bit, and I'm curious if it was the same way for you guys.

|

Make Hillclimb Great Again

Ratbeach Racing

Instagram / YouTube: @485Josh

3dpmoto.com