Engine cradle dent

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1/13/2020 7:09 AM

Nemesismx1990 wrote:

Yeah been quoted £200 from a mobile welder which is fine by me. What will he just do, fill with more alimunium

Should fill. Id sand it flat so it looks like it wasnt touched.

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1/13/2020 7:20 AM

FWYT wrote:

Question: If one were to repair that by TIG welding some material over the area; does the
heat weaken the area in any way? Are frames heat treated after assembly and would welding
them change that or something?

kb228 wrote:

Welds just harden the material. If you have it stress relieved it wont be a big deal.

Tbh as long as its not punctured id put a skid plate on and ride.

This is not the case for aluminum. Welding reduces the yield strength around the area of the weld. You'd have to post-weld heat treat to restore the original yield strength.

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1/13/2020 7:24 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/13/2020 7:31 AM

Nemesismx1990 wrote:

Yeah been quoted £200 from a mobile welder which is fine by me. What will he just do, fill with more alimunium

200? Should be more like 40 lol.Never mind, I see they are coming to your house...

Maybe over-seas it's more expensive no matter what. Here in the states we have tons of body shops and bike shops that would weld that for cheap, but obviously you need to take the bike there.

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1/13/2020 7:25 AM

Nemesismx1990 wrote:

Yeah been quoted £200 from a mobile welder which is fine by me. What will he just do, fill with more alimunium

kb228 wrote:

Should fill. Id sand it flat so it looks like it wasnt touched.

The welder will probably do a little prep work before weld. (sanding, cleaning and some visual inspection for stress cracks around the hole) He might plate it or fill it up to be sanded flat. Just let him do his thing.

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if you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

1/13/2020 7:26 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/13/2020 7:30 AM

Nemesismx1990 wrote:

Yeah been quoted £200 from a mobile welder which is fine by me. What will he just do, fill with more alimunium

kNewc wrote:

200? Should be more like 40 lol.Never mind, I see they are coming to your house...

Maybe over-seas it's more expensive no matter what. Here in the states we have tons of body shops and bike shops that would weld that for cheap, but obviously you need to take the bike there.

For a mobile welder? It probably costs him more than 40 in time just to get to the location.

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1/13/2020 7:31 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/13/2020 7:31 AM

Nemesismx1990 wrote:

Yeah been quoted £200 from a mobile welder which is fine by me. What will he just do, fill with more alimunium

kNewc wrote:

200? Should be more like 40 lol.Never mind, I see they are coming to your house...

Maybe over-seas it's more expensive no matter what. Here in the states we have tons of body shops and bike shops that would weld that for cheap, but obviously you need to take the bike there.

Dirty Points wrote:

For a mobile welder? It probably costs him more than 40 in time just to get to the location.

Ah yea, I didn't see that... I was meaning for him to take the bike somewhere. I could see it easily being 200 to get someone to come out to your house.

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1/13/2020 7:32 AM

Yeah 200. His ad says he has 25years experience and he's like 40 miles from me. What's this yield strength all about. Some people are saying leave it as filling it with weld will reduce the overall strength

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1/13/2020 7:41 AM

Nemesismx1990 wrote:

Yeah 200. His ad says he has 25years experience and he's like 40 miles from me. What's this yield strength all about. Some people are saying leave it as filling it with weld will reduce the overall strength

Not sure if you're referring to my post about reduced weld strength, but I didn't say leave it (although others did). I would fix it. The strength you loose welding you'll mostly gain back with area since there's currently a hole in it. I'm not sure about the process of heat treating, but it may be something the mobile welder could do; you'd need to ask. Regardless of whether he could heat treat, I'd still have it welded.

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1/13/2020 7:44 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/13/2020 7:45 AM

Nemesismx1990 wrote:

Yeah 200. His ad says he has 25years experience and he's like 40 miles from me. What's this yield strength all about. Some people are saying leave it as filling it with weld will reduce the overall strength

Aluminum is available in many different types depending on the alloying elements present in its composition. Since the frame rail is an extruded part as far as I’m aware, it’s likely 6063. Now, some are weldable while others are not, but luckily the 6000 series is.

Aluminum in the as extruded, or “o” condition, is very soft and weak, or in other words has a low yield strength. In order to bring the strength of the material up as well as its resistance to fatigue, it is heat treated to various different tempers, most commonly to the T6 condition. The problem with welding lies in the fact that when you heat the material to the point of melting, you’ve now lost the tempered properties in that localized area and returned it to the weaker condition. I highly doubt this would ever be a problem in the area in question, but the easiest way to avoid a disaster is to inspect it religiously. It’s not going to blow in half off the lip of a jump and kill you, but if you notice any cracks beginning to propagate from the weld area then that would be cause for concern.

Even with welding you won’t entirely get rid of any stress raisers from the result of the puncture, but it’s better than leaving the hole and as far as I’m aware the cradles are a relatively low stress area of the frame.

Edit: And no, a mobile welder absolutely cannot heat treat a frame effectively.

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Make Hillclimb Great Again

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1/13/2020 7:44 AM

So it will be better of anyway with the weld and a skid plate

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1/13/2020 7:50 AM

FWYT wrote:

Question: If one were to repair that by TIG welding some material over the area; does the
heat weaken the area in any way? Are frames heat treated after assembly and would welding
them change that or something?

kb228 wrote:

Welds just harden the material. If you have it stress relieved it wont be a big deal.

Tbh as long as its not punctured id put a skid plate on and ride.

volcomrr wrote:

This is not the case for aluminum. Welding reduces the yield strength around the area of the weld. You'd have to post-weld heat treat to restore the original yield strength.

Thank you. That's what I was wondering. Is there a way to effectively heat treat the local area?

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1/13/2020 9:55 AM

FWYT wrote:

Thank you. That's what I was wondering. Is there a way to effectively heat treat the local area?

Not that I’m aware of, the issue is there will always be a heat gradient (i.e. the frame will not be heated evenly) unless you stick the whole frame in an oven. In this case I don’t think it’s that big of a deal though, and with frequent inspection a failure will be detected before it becomes catastrophic.

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Make Hillclimb Great Again

Ratbeach Racing

Instagram / YouTube: @485Josh

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1/13/2020 10:00 AM

volcomrr wrote:

This is not the case for aluminum. Welding reduces the yield strength around the area of the weld. You'd have to post-weld heat treat to restore the original yield strength.

FWYT wrote:

Thank you. That's what I was wondering. Is there a way to effectively heat treat the local area?

JM485 wrote:

Not that I’m aware of, the issue is there will always be a heat gradient (i.e. the frame will not be heated evenly) unless you stick the whole frame in an oven. In this case I don’t think it’s that big of a deal though, and with frequent inspection a failure will be detected before it becomes catastrophic.

What would your opinion be. Shall I leave it and put the work skid plate on to stop any further damage or have it filled and reduce the strength over the area. Thanks

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1/13/2020 10:05 AM

hell, grind off the extruding part and jb weld it, put a shovel on it and ride. Unless you are flat landing 300 feet it will be fine.

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1/13/2020 10:31 AM

If filling the hole is all you're looking to do there are aluminum brazing rods that can be used with a mapp gas torch. It's not as strong as a weld, but I've used it to fix a snowmobile heat exchanger with good luck. Obviously not the same sort of stress, but it might be something to look into. To the guys that are more familiar with heat treating, would the brazing still effect the frame's heat treat if it's not brought up to melting temps like welding?

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1/13/2020 3:38 PM

I would never claim to be a professional welder or frame repairman but if this guy you're hiring is worth his salt...he will clean the area, fill in the hole (weld it even with the surrounding metal) and then weld a piece of "U" channel over the "patch". Then you install the skid/frame guard of your choice and fuggitaboudit. As my old Grandpa used to say, "I had with worse place than that on my lip...and kept right on whistling".wink

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

1/13/2020 4:01 PM

666 was right about the stress riser. The places that are inside and "sharp" is where it will crack.

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2 Stroke, Drum Brakes, Finned Cylinders!!!

1/13/2020 4:10 PM

OK I will go ahead with the job. Just need to unplug the ecu and spark plug yeah

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1/13/2020 4:11 PM

Just dont wanna make it worse. The guy said his gonna fill that part

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1/13/2020 6:04 PM

Alimunium huh, wondered why those brit bikes were so much lighter.....yeah, weld and plate is the route I would go or its gonna crack eventually, perhaps catastrophically. A skid plate may help prevent further insult to your injury but probly won't contribute to the structural integrity of the frame so much, seeing as how its damaged to the extent it is.A welder that knows his stuff can tig it back up with some nice pass's along the length of the beam, shouldn't be trying to "fill" it in however. For 260 bucks American he better plate and polish it as well and do your air filter for ya in the meanwhile...good luck!
'

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a faster bike just means you'll be shutting off sooner

1/13/2020 6:19 PM

There are SO many good aluminum welders and “craftsman” on your side of the pond. Even some that’ll now exactly what alloy that is. Structurally you’re not looking at as big of a “stressed area” as most people think.

As many have said,”Get a good glide/skid plate.”

You can get away with filing any open hole(s) with an aluminum-filled epoxy or toughened epoxy to keep water and other crap from getting in there.

Good Luck!

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

1/13/2020 9:32 PM

FWYT wrote:

Thank you. That's what I was wondering. Is there a way to effectively heat treat the local area?

JM485 wrote:

Not that I’m aware of, the issue is there will always be a heat gradient (i.e. the frame will not be heated evenly) unless you stick the whole frame in an oven. In this case I don’t think it’s that big of a deal though, and with frequent inspection a failure will be detected before it becomes catastrophic.

Nemesismx1990 wrote:

What would your opinion be. Shall I leave it and put the work skid plate on to stop any further damage or have it filled and reduce the strength over the area. Thanks

My approach would be to clean the hole as best as possible, meaning get rid of any jagged edges both internally and externally, then either have it welded and/or have a small plate welded over the top. The plate approach should in theory relieve that area of stress (if anyone more competent than me has objections to this please speak up), and by removing the jagged edges you're lessening the creation of stress concentrations on the inside of the tubing where they can't be seen. The concern would be a crack forming on the inside of the tubing due to one of these stress raisers that goes undetected until it's a major problem, but I think the likelyhood of this is extremely low.

In all honesty, I think you'd be perfectly fine just getting it filled. A small plate over the top would probably be ideal, but even without this I think you'll be fine based on the location. In the end, it may not have the exact same material properties it had before, but I've never in my life seen a frame failure in that area so I don't think its a big concern. The safest approach is to continually keep an eye on it after the repair, because you'll likely detect any cracks before they become a cause for concern. The frame is not going to just blow apart, there will be obvious signs of impending failure long before anything actually happens.

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Make Hillclimb Great Again

Ratbeach Racing

Instagram / YouTube: @485Josh

3dpmoto.com



1/13/2020 9:35 PM

TeamGreen wrote:

There are SO many good aluminum welders and “craftsman” on your side of the pond. Even some that’ll now exactly what alloy that is. Structurally you’re not looking at as big of a “stressed area” as most people think.

As many have said,”Get a good glide/skid plate.”

You can get away with filing any open hole(s) with an aluminum-filled epoxy or toughened epoxy to keep water and other crap from getting in there.

Good Luck!

The problem being this side of the pond is that dirt bikes in general aren't that big of a thing. There's a few well known tracks but not that many compared to the States. Oh n dirt bike theft is so high. A lot of bikes get stolen, especially in london

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1/13/2020 9:40 PM

Completely off topic but I don't it's fair. All u guys in the states get all the fun. Big cars, bikes, guns, amazing foods. What we got. A pedophille Prince and roast dinners lol

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1/13/2020 10:01 PM

Nemesismx1990 wrote:

Completely off topic but I don't it's fair. All u guys in the states get all the fun. Big cars, bikes, guns, amazing foods. What we got. A pedophille Prince and roast dinners lol

Pack it up and come on over...there's plenty of room.. We'll even leave the light on for ya. wink

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There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear.

1/13/2020 10:17 PM

Have it welded, check it every time you do your air filter... and make sure your that you keep the frame bolts torqued to spec.....

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1/13/2020 11:37 PM

Just send it.

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1/13/2020 11:52 PM

£200???!!!
Do you have somewhere local to you that does aluminium wheel repairs? I bet you do.

I have a place locally that I could wheel that in, and ten minutes and £20 later it’d be done!

I wouldn’t be concerned about heat treatment of that. If it were a weld from tubing on to the ‘neck’ or shock mounts of the frame then maybe, but not that mid-tube area.

If the hole is 5mm across, your welder will know to penetrate at least 15-20mm across, to grab any of those stress fractures which may have started to branch off of the sharp edges that are there. If he’s penetrating right through the aluminium you won’t need to worry too much about future stress fractures.
Furthermore, where it is on the bike is very easily inspected.

It wouldn’t be a cause for concern for me.
But search around before you shell out the £200.

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1/14/2020 5:02 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/14/2020 5:07 AM

Nemesismx1990 wrote:

Completely off topic but I don't it's fair. All u guys in the states get all the fun. Big cars, bikes, guns, amazing foods. What we got. A pedophille Prince and roast dinners lol

ledger wrote:

Pack it up and come on over...there's plenty of room.. We'll even leave the light on for ya. wink

Hell no, we got to many people now. When I was a kid we could ride every where. No everywhere has a fucking house.

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1/14/2020 7:47 AM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

£200???!!!
Do you have somewhere local to you that does aluminium wheel repairs? I bet you do.

I have a place locally that I could wheel that in, and ten minutes and £20 later it’d be done!

I wouldn’t be concerned about heat treatment of that. If it were a weld from tubing on to the ‘neck’ or shock mounts of the frame then maybe, but not that mid-tube area.

If the hole is 5mm across, your welder will know to penetrate at least 15-20mm across, to grab any of those stress fractures which may have started to branch off of the sharp edges that are there. If he’s penetrating right through the aluminium you won’t need to worry too much about future stress fractures.
Furthermore, where it is on the bike is very easily inspected.

It wouldn’t be a cause for concern for me.
But search around before you shell out the £200.

It's the cheapest I can find that's nearer to me. I have tried everywhere and they have said its too small of a job to even consider.

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