Eli's place among top motocrossers

Crush
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7/30/2020 12:38am
robotsfrom wrote:
That argument goes back to Eli. Eli had an awful first moto (13th i believe) so they gave him the better gate pick for the second...
That argument goes back to Eli. Eli had an awful first moto (13th i believe) so they gave him the better gate pick for the second moto he still got an awful start and Dungey got taken out on the start with the worse gate pick and Tomac had a heroic moto, but then crashed. I think they got 3rd.

Tomacs other best shot at a Des Nations win was on a lite bike when he did his version of a Chadapult chasing Roczen (if he didn't crash he was definitely faster)
Mmmmm. Dungey is 3-3 at Des Nations. He's been great and pretty much gawd awful, especially considering he's was the national champ/team leader... but I think a lot of that comes back to Nationals track prep and monotone soil conditions compared to GPs...

2012 was highly forgettable. 7-9 as the national champ sitting down everywhere in the deep sand.

2013 Germany. Dungey went 6-7. Barcia 4-11. Eli 2-16. Eli crashed, but he crashed going for the win against Kenny at home and after his teammates go 6-4 in their respective first motos I don't blame him for trying to win, they likely needed him to do it to get it done... so often at Des Nations the winning lites bike is part of the winning team.

2014 Latvia. Dungey went 2-11. Martin with a broken foot 11-13. Eli 3-6 from the back after first turn crashes.

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kage173
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7/30/2020 4:38am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2020 4:41am
He won in 2010 against who? Brett Metcalf was second?.... 2011--Villopoto beat him 2012-- alessi was 2nd 2013--Poto Wins 2014 -- His rookie teamate beats him...
He won in 2010 against who? Brett Metcalf was second?....
2011--Villopoto beat him
2012-- alessi was 2nd
2013--Poto Wins
2014 -- His rookie teamate beats him
2015-- He wins against Roczen who was lost on his suzuki (or a back injury) (Tomac beat him by over a minute in a moto this year)

Don't be mad at this post-- these are just the facts.

He never beat a dominate rider other than in 2015..

BUT I do think he is the most consistent MX rider ever. I just don't consider him as high on the list as some of you.

2nd moto at Latvia was pretty bad too.....

It's a big can of worms putting asterisks and qualifying the field that they raced against. Who has Tomac ever beaten outdoors? Nit a single former champion except a mangled Ken Roczen and you just said that's not a big deal when Dungey did the same thing.

The field is the field. It is always savage. A championship is a championship. The stats are the stats and Dunge has elite stats.
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ShipLap
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7/30/2020 5:10am
Stew did have a perfect season FWIW
str8line wrote:
A perfect season and nearly two has got to add a lot to your standing, IMO. "James Stewart. Writing the name alone just sent someone to...
A perfect season and nearly two has got to add a lot to your standing, IMO.


"James Stewart. Writing the name alone just sent someone to the comments section to start a bonfire. Doesn't matter to them that he's won more outdoor Nationals than anyone in the history of AMA Motocross except for Ricky Carmichael. Nor does it matter that he once had a perfect season, going 24-0 in the premier class. Nor does it matter that he won 28 times in the 31 AMA 125cc Nationals he raced, which was better than Carmichael, Mark Barnett, Steve Lamson, or anyone else. Nor does it matter that he was the innovator of a game-changing jumping technique that is now mandatory, both indoors and outdoors...."
mxb2 wrote:
Wrong, tomac passed stewart for 450 wins, titles outdoors. Stewart was a badazz. , Lot of riders have better resumes.
Stewart has 20 MX overalls.

Tomac has 25 MX overalls

The Dunge has 39 MX overalls
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7/30/2020 6:12am
RC JS7 McGrath Villipoto ET Dungey Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him...
RC
JS7
McGrath
Villipoto
ET
Dungey


Dungey was good, but all he was in consistent, he never put the spanking on like the people above him.

Just my opinion.
kage173 wrote:
In 2010 Dungey won the MX title by 145 points as a rookie. In 2012 he won it by 127 points. That year he won every...
In 2010 Dungey won the MX title by 145 points as a rookie.

In 2012 he won it by 127 points. That year he won every single moto except 1, which he got 2nd in.

2012 Stew went out with broken wrist. He lost the first 4 moto’s to him.
2010 and 2012 Dunge racked up a lot of wins with very little competition.
Haters gon hate
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The Shop

7/30/2020 6:18am
While I know RD’s stats are better than RV I still put Villopoto ahead every day..
I expect tomac will surpass both of them by the time he is done (outdoors)
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mxb2
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7/30/2020 6:34am
He won in 2010 against who? Brett Metcalf was second?.... 2011--Villopoto beat him 2012-- alessi was 2nd 2013--Poto Wins 2014 -- His rookie teamate beats him...
He won in 2010 against who? Brett Metcalf was second?....
2011--Villopoto beat him
2012-- alessi was 2nd
2013--Poto Wins
2014 -- His rookie teamate beats him
2015-- He wins against Roczen who was lost on his suzuki (or a back injury) (Tomac beat him by over a minute in a moto this year)

Don't be mad at this post-- these are just the facts.

He never beat a dominate rider other than in 2015..

BUT I do think he is the most consistent MX rider ever. I just don't consider him as high on the list as some of you.

2nd moto at Latvia was pretty bad too.....

kage173 wrote:
It's a big can of worms putting asterisks and qualifying the field that they raced against. Who has Tomac ever beaten outdoors? Nit a single former...
It's a big can of worms putting asterisks and qualifying the field that they raced against. Who has Tomac ever beaten outdoors? Nit a single former champion except a mangled Ken Roczen and you just said that's not a big deal when Dungey did the same thing.

The field is the field. It is always savage. A championship is a championship. The stats are the stats and Dunge has elite stats.
Webb, musquin are both title holders. Sx, mx world title.
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motomoto652
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7/30/2020 8:50am
1. Carmichael 2. McGrath 3. Hannah 4. Stewart 5. Villopoto
6. Stanton 7. JMB 8. Dungey 9. Bailey 10. Tomac
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Crush
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7/30/2020 9:36am
1. Carmichael 2. McGrath 3. Hannah 4. Stewart 5. Villopoto
6. Stanton 7. JMB 8. Dungey 9. Bailey 10. Tomac
How can RV have more titles than anyone but RC, beat down two others on that list and be 5th?

Never lost a title he completed. 4 straight SX, 3 straight lites, legendary class and overall des nations rides.

Not having a go, you’re not alone in not ranking him that high but I sometimes wonder if I watched a different RV all those years. 9 titles! And the guys he beat are HoF’s with 8, 5 and 3!
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Johnny Ringo
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7/30/2020 9:37am
Titles are hard to win no matter who you’re racing, but some titles are harder to win than others...
mxb2
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7/30/2020 9:38am
1. Carmichael 2. McGrath 3. Hannah 4. Stewart 5. Villopoto
6. Stanton 7. JMB 8. Dungey 9. Bailey 10. Tomac
Crush wrote:
How can RV have more titles than anyone but RC, beat down two others on that list and be 5th? Never lost a title he completed...
How can RV have more titles than anyone but RC, beat down two others on that list and be 5th?

Never lost a title he completed. 4 straight SX, 3 straight lites, legendary class and overall des nations rides.

Not having a go, you’re not alone in not ranking him that high but I sometimes wonder if I watched a different RV all those years. 9 titles! And the guys he beat are HoF’s with 8, 5 and 3!
Bingo,. Mc was a badass, but #2 outdoors. No way. 1 title
motomike137
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7/30/2020 9:47am
twotwosix wrote:
1.RC 2.MC 3.RV That's the top 3 ever and I just don't think anyone could convince me otherwise in 2020... Tomac, Dungey, Stewart, Hannah, RJ, Reed...
1.RC
2.MC
3.RV

That's the top 3 ever and I just don't think anyone could convince me otherwise in 2020...

Tomac, Dungey, Stewart, Hannah, RJ, Reed, Ward I have a hard time ranking those guys. It's not easy to compile a list.
You probably aren't old enough to have watched since the seventies. Your list is flawed imho. Hannah is second beyond a doubt behind RC. Johnson would be 3rd in my book but that's part of the fun of these conversations Wink
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H4L
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7/30/2020 9:48am
charge wrote:
He once beat dungey straight up in a race by a minute thirty
I still can't believe that actually happened. ET1 had RD5 covered 90% of the time & beat him straight up most of the time unless he had some malfunction..

ET gets a lot of hate which I've never understood. He will go down as one of the greats once it's all said & done..

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Park Boys
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7/30/2020 10:29am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2020 10:32am
1. Carmichael 2. McGrath 3. Hannah 4. Stewart 5. Villopoto
6. Stanton 7. JMB 8. Dungey 9. Bailey 10. Tomac
You could argue the guys you ranked 6 and 7 wouldn’t exist if not for someone you left off of the list. A huge error that makes the whole thing null and void... No RJ. At worst RJ could never be ranked lower than 4th to have any list taken seriously. Strong case for 2nd as well and all by the time he was in his mid 20’s.
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SWOHIO GUY
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7/31/2020 1:10pm
1. Carmichael 2. McGrath 3. Hannah 4. Stewart 5. Villopoto
6. Stanton 7. JMB 8. Dungey 9. Bailey 10. Tomac
Crush wrote:
How can RV have more titles than anyone but RC, beat down two others on that list and be 5th? Never lost a title he completed...
How can RV have more titles than anyone but RC, beat down two others on that list and be 5th?

Never lost a title he completed. 4 straight SX, 3 straight lites, legendary class and overall des nations rides.

Not having a go, you’re not alone in not ranking him that high but I sometimes wonder if I watched a different RV all those years. 9 titles! And the guys he beat are HoF’s with 8, 5 and 3!
mxb2 wrote:
Bingo,. Mc was a badass, but #2 outdoors. No way. 1 title
You have to wonder if McGrath is viewed slightly different if he seals the deal in 96. He also went 1-1 at Des Nations in 96 as well. McGrath was no slouch outdoors.
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mxb2
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7/31/2020 1:14pm
Crush wrote:
How can RV have more titles than anyone but RC, beat down two others on that list and be 5th? Never lost a title he completed...
How can RV have more titles than anyone but RC, beat down two others on that list and be 5th?

Never lost a title he completed. 4 straight SX, 3 straight lites, legendary class and overall des nations rides.

Not having a go, you’re not alone in not ranking him that high but I sometimes wonder if I watched a different RV all those years. 9 titles! And the guys he beat are HoF’s with 8, 5 and 3!
mxb2 wrote:
Bingo,. Mc was a badass, but #2 outdoors. No way. 1 title
SWOHIO GUY wrote:
You have to wonder if McGrath is viewed slightly different if he seals the deal in 96. He also went 1-1 at Des Nations in 96...
You have to wonder if McGrath is viewed slightly different if he seals the deal in 96. He also went 1-1 at Des Nations in 96 as well. McGrath was no slouch outdoors.
For sure, i am def. A big mc. Fan. Legend for sure.
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ATKpilot99
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7/31/2020 1:45pm
Crush wrote:
How can RV have more titles than anyone but RC, beat down two others on that list and be 5th? Never lost a title he completed...
How can RV have more titles than anyone but RC, beat down two others on that list and be 5th?

Never lost a title he completed. 4 straight SX, 3 straight lites, legendary class and overall des nations rides.

Not having a go, you’re not alone in not ranking him that high but I sometimes wonder if I watched a different RV all those years. 9 titles! And the guys he beat are HoF’s with 8, 5 and 3!
mxb2 wrote:
Bingo,. Mc was a badass, but #2 outdoors. No way. 1 title
SWOHIO GUY wrote:
You have to wonder if McGrath is viewed slightly different if he seals the deal in 96. He also went 1-1 at Des Nations in 96...
You have to wonder if McGrath is viewed slightly different if he seals the deal in 96. He also went 1-1 at Des Nations in 96 as well. McGrath was no slouch outdoors.
If he would have given the same effort from the beginning outdoors that he did in 95 and 96 and not gone SX only he probably could have been second behind RC . But you know what they say about woulda coulda shoulda .
BroFoSho
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7/31/2020 2:39pm
ktm 125 wrote:
2014 is my fav season. kr and rd went neck to neck with a couple js7 glimpses of talent. no way rd steamed rolled kr, check...
2014 is my fav season. kr and rd went neck to neck with a couple js7 glimpses of talent. no way rd steamed rolled kr, check again
Park Boys wrote:
I meant to say after Red Bud, it looked like Dungey was gonna come back and snag the title but Kenny pulled it out at Utah...
I meant to say after Red Bud, it looked like Dungey was gonna come back and snag the title but Kenny pulled it out at Utah and sealed the deal. I agree with 14 being great. Still get pissed about Stewart and the WADA shit coming out after he won 3 of the last 4 motos he competed in.
Yeah... I was going to say... Dungey was on the box every race but didn't "steamroll" anyone

Canard last six motos of 2014: 4-1-3-1-1-1

4-1 (Unadilla), 3-1 (Ironman), 1-1 (Utah)
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motomike137
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7/31/2020 6:35pm
Crush wrote:
How can RV have more titles than anyone but RC, beat down two others on that list and be 5th? Never lost a title he completed...
How can RV have more titles than anyone but RC, beat down two others on that list and be 5th?

Never lost a title he completed. 4 straight SX, 3 straight lites, legendary class and overall des nations rides.

Not having a go, you’re not alone in not ranking him that high but I sometimes wonder if I watched a different RV all those years. 9 titles! And the guys he beat are HoF’s with 8, 5 and 3!
mxb2 wrote:
Bingo,. Mc was a badass, but #2 outdoors. No way. 1 title
SWOHIO GUY wrote:
You have to wonder if McGrath is viewed slightly different if he seals the deal in 96. He also went 1-1 at Des Nations in 96...
You have to wonder if McGrath is viewed slightly different if he seals the deal in 96. He also went 1-1 at Des Nations in 96 as well. McGrath was no slouch outdoors.
MC was great outdoors when he put his heart into it. But he quit riding MX and that makes it hard to rank him even top 5 imho.
kage173
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8/1/2020 6:11am
mxb2 wrote:
Webb, musquin are both title holders. Sx, mx world title.
We're talking 450 motocross. So like I said...
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mxb2
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8/1/2020 6:25am
mxb2 wrote:
Webb, musquin are both title holders. Sx, mx world title.
kage173 wrote:
We're talking 450 motocross. So like I said...
I guess my point was they where champions, no slouches. Stewart went 24-0. And beat who? Short, alessi, ferry,. No comparison in competition.
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SWOHIO GUY
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8/1/2020 6:53am
robotsfrom wrote:
That argument goes back to Eli. Eli had an awful first moto (13th i believe) so they gave him the better gate pick for the second...
That argument goes back to Eli. Eli had an awful first moto (13th i believe) so they gave him the better gate pick for the second moto he still got an awful start and Dungey got taken out on the start with the worse gate pick and Tomac had a heroic moto, but then crashed. I think they got 3rd.

Tomacs other best shot at a Des Nations win was on a lite bike when he did his version of a Chadapult chasing Roczen (if he didn't crash he was definitely faster)
Crush wrote:
Mmmmm. Dungey is 3-3 at Des Nations. He's been great and pretty much gawd awful, especially considering he's was the national champ/team leader... but I think...
Mmmmm. Dungey is 3-3 at Des Nations. He's been great and pretty much gawd awful, especially considering he's was the national champ/team leader... but I think a lot of that comes back to Nationals track prep and monotone soil conditions compared to GPs...

2012 was highly forgettable. 7-9 as the national champ sitting down everywhere in the deep sand.

2013 Germany. Dungey went 6-7. Barcia 4-11. Eli 2-16. Eli crashed, but he crashed going for the win against Kenny at home and after his teammates go 6-4 in their respective first motos I don't blame him for trying to win, they likely needed him to do it to get it done... so often at Des Nations the winning lites bike is part of the winning team.

2014 Latvia. Dungey went 2-11. Martin with a broken foot 11-13. Eli 3-6 from the back after first turn crashes.

During this whole quarantine I have been watching a lot older races. Tomac was on rails in Germany and Latvia while Dungey looked to be playing it very safe in those 4 motos. May not have made a difference in Latvia with France being unreal and Martins injury. In Germany with it all on the line he could only salvage a 7th with it all on the line on a hard pack track. I was really hoping to see how Tomac did in Ernee this year, I think he could definitely had a shot at being the overall winner.
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early
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8/1/2020 7:09am
mxb2 wrote:
Webb, musquin are both title holders. Sx, mx world title.
kage173 wrote:
We're talking 450 motocross. So like I said...
There were 0 previous 450 champions in the class when Stewart and Reed won their championships and when Dungey won his first championship, if we are going to play that game.
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KurtJ99
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8/1/2020 7:23am
charge wrote:
He once beat dungey straight up in a race by a minute thirty
Yeah that’s reason enough for #3 on list behind RC and Bubba.
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kage173
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8/1/2020 10:16am
mxb2 wrote:
Webb, musquin are both title holders. Sx, mx world title.
kage173 wrote:
We're talking 450 motocross. So like I said...
early wrote:
There were 0 previous 450 champions in the class when Stewart and Reed won their championships and when Dungey won his first championship, if we are...
There were 0 previous 450 champions in the class when Stewart and Reed won their championships and when Dungey won his first championship, if we are going to play that game.
Y'all arent reading my original post. My point was that championships are championships. Sitting around picking out who raced against the hardest competition is a useless can if worms.
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