ET3, KR, WEBB, or BAM BAM??

mxb2
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5/27/2020 11:55am
KX500 wrote:
If Tomac isn't already one of the all time greats, then nobody racing today is (expect maybe Reed - or is he done?). Check the records...
If Tomac isn't already one of the all time greats, then nobody racing today is (expect maybe Reed - or is he done?).

Check the records books - Pretty sure the argument could be made Tomac is already there.

The lack of an SX championship doesn't exclude a rider from the list anymore than one SX championship can put another rider on the list.
McG194 wrote:
No one ever said that one title puts you on an all time greats list but if Eli is sitting around bs'ing with MC, RC and...
No one ever said that one title puts you on an all time greats list but if Eli is sitting around bs'ing with MC, RC and the Ryans he will be like Shooter McGavin in the bar without the jacket.
Sitting with stewart kdub. Bradshaw chandler according to your theory.
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mx1313
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5/27/2020 11:57am Edited Date/Time 5/27/2020 12:03pm
Tomac is positively one of the greatest SX and MX racers ever. Anyone that would argue this is beyond stupid. But...championships matter. Being a great racer is one thing. Being the champion is a whole different level.
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kpiper
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5/27/2020 12:01pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2020 12:10pm
Eli is one of the all-time greats right now. Based on the speed they go in today's racing he is probably the fastest rider ever.

Supercross is less forgiving than motocross for mistakes. Eli makes mistakes (they all do) because he goes so fast at times. So he is better at motocross because he can get away with a mistake here and there that may ruin his race in SX.

Also, he has had some bad luck in SX. Ask AC about that.

I hope I am wrong but based on history he won't win the title this year. He needs to be a top 5-8 starter to pull it off and that is something he has never been able to do consistently.
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kongols
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5/27/2020 12:04pm
Deja vu.
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The Shop

KX500
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5/27/2020 12:10pm
McG194 wrote:
No one ever said that one title puts you on an all time greats list but if Eli is sitting around bs'ing with MC, RC and...
No one ever said that one title puts you on an all time greats list but if Eli is sitting around bs'ing with MC, RC and the Ryans he will be like Shooter McGavin in the bar without the jacket.
To say that Tomac is unworthy of rubbing shoulders with those above him, on the all time wins list - well one would need to not look at the all times win list!

Thanks for proving my point - there are very few above him on the wins list - Tomac sitting at #6 with RV within striking distance at #5.

Yeah, right, Tomac doesn't belong.

When RC and Emig are giving each other a hard time in the booth and RC says, 'What you got Jeff?" - asking about Race wins/Championships - all Emig can do is shut up or change the subject, since he wasn't close to RC.

But if one of the Ryans says this to Tomac, he can say - Look over your shoulder & not done yet.

Still, hate on Tomac all you want - the records book just doesn't back you up.
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McG194
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5/27/2020 12:21pm
mx1313 wrote:
Tomac is positively one of the greatest SX and MX racers ever. Anyone that would argue this is beyond stupid. But...championships matter. Being a great racer...
Tomac is positively one of the greatest SX and MX racers ever. Anyone that would argue this is beyond stupid. But...championships matter. Being a great racer is one thing. Being the champion is a whole different level.
No debate there, he is absolutely one of the greatest SX racers. Great racer does not mean great champion.

Championships matter. Stamp it!
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McG194
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5/27/2020 12:25pm
KX500 wrote:
To say that Tomac is unworthy of rubbing shoulders with those above him, on the all time wins list - well one would need to not...
To say that Tomac is unworthy of rubbing shoulders with those above him, on the all time wins list - well one would need to not look at the all times win list!

Thanks for proving my point - there are very few above him on the wins list - Tomac sitting at #6 with RV within striking distance at #5.

Yeah, right, Tomac doesn't belong.

When RC and Emig are giving each other a hard time in the booth and RC says, 'What you got Jeff?" - asking about Race wins/Championships - all Emig can do is shut up or change the subject, since he wasn't close to RC.

But if one of the Ryans says this to Tomac, he can say - Look over your shoulder & not done yet.

Still, hate on Tomac all you want - the records book just doesn't back you up.
Here's the conversation if he passes RV without winning a championship.

"Motherf@cker listen, you aint sh!t without a Supercross championship." (Throws empty Coors Light on the ground)

Funny thing about being called a hater is I'm somewhat pulling for the guy to finally win.
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kkawboy14
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5/27/2020 1:02pm
McG194 wrote:
You are totally missing the point. Sunday won't tell us much at all. It is 7 races in 3 weeks. This is something that has never...
You are totally missing the point. Sunday won't tell us much at all. It is 7 races in 3 weeks. This is something that has never happened before in the sport, my money is on the guy who shows himself to be mentally strongest. Of the bunch Cooper is the only one that has stood up to the pressure of a SX season.
Shaned9326 wrote:
Tomac has won three strait 450 national championships in a row and will smoke them again this summer so I think he can handle pressure pretty...
Tomac has won three strait 450 national championships in a row and will smoke them again this summer so I think he can handle pressure pretty damn good myself and I realize he’s had some mistakes in supercross series and he may have some issue when they return but as far as any of the guys strait up beating him on a track that allows good passing I just don’t see it but sure we will find out in next few weeks and I’m just damn glad we have racing again period and hope they all give it hell!,,,
McG194 wrote:
Not sure if you know this but the pressure cooker of SX is far more intense than outdoors. If you asked the Kawi bosses if they...
Not sure if you know this but the pressure cooker of SX is far more intense than outdoors. If you asked the Kawi bosses if they would rather have outdoor titles or SX titles what do you think they would choose? The vast majority of United States moto effort goes to SX not Motocross. You can not like what I'm saying but it is absolutely true. There is a reason why a top guy could get a SX only ride but never a National only ride. If guys want moto only they have to go to Canada.

Eli very well may win it all because he is the fastest guy but until now he has choked in SX every year.
He hasn’t choked every year!

Went into the year with a hurt back, The guy rides to win and gets terrible starts. That is a recipe for losing titles.

Choking has nothing to do with it.
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5/27/2020 5:37pm
I think the long break will hurt Tomac more than some of the others. I won't be surprised if Webb or Barcia come out on top at the first couple of rounds.
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VicDaMoan03
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5/27/2020 7:28pm
While I may have exaggerated in saying he has yet to contend for an SX title (I mean 450 SX title btw), he still has yet...
While I may have exaggerated in saying he has yet to contend for an SX title (I mean 450 SX title btw), he still has yet to really come close to winning. Keep in mind Anderson’s mechanical at SLC in 2018 when he had a huge lead (Musquins best SX season).

You’re basically proving my original point too, no one refers to Musquin as a “choker” but somehow Tomac is? Shit happens and people get beat, just how the sport goes.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I think people refer to Tomac as a choker simply because he's got a whole bunch of wins in SX and no titles which is really...
I think people refer to Tomac as a choker simply because he's got a whole bunch of wins in SX and no titles which is really unheard of.

He holds the record for most wins without a title. It's not exactly a record to be proud of.
I'd rather have a bunch of wins with no title than no wins and no title.
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mxb2
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5/27/2020 7:31pm
While I may have exaggerated in saying he has yet to contend for an SX title (I mean 450 SX title btw), he still has yet...
While I may have exaggerated in saying he has yet to contend for an SX title (I mean 450 SX title btw), he still has yet to really come close to winning. Keep in mind Anderson’s mechanical at SLC in 2018 when he had a huge lead (Musquins best SX season).

You’re basically proving my original point too, no one refers to Musquin as a “choker” but somehow Tomac is? Shit happens and people get beat, just how the sport goes.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I think people refer to Tomac as a choker simply because he's got a whole bunch of wins in SX and no titles which is really...
I think people refer to Tomac as a choker simply because he's got a whole bunch of wins in SX and no titles which is really unheard of.

He holds the record for most wins without a title. It's not exactly a record to be proud of.
I'd rather have a bunch of wins with no title than no wins and no title.
Yep, and your bank will.thank you. Kawy is getting alot of. Wins,and titles for their investment. Kroc, musquin not so much.
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mikec265
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5/27/2020 11:04pm
As far as Barcia holding Tomac up goes, aren't Kenny and Barcia good friends...?
Crush
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5/28/2020 4:18am
mikec265 wrote:
As far as Barcia holding Tomac up goes, aren't Kenny and Barcia good friends...?
hahaha.
Zycki11
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5/28/2020 8:12am
mikec265 wrote:
As far as Barcia holding Tomac up goes, aren't Kenny and Barcia good friends...?
No not at all
McG194
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5/28/2020 11:44am
mikec265 wrote:
As far as Barcia holding Tomac up goes, aren't Kenny and Barcia good friends...?
Zycki11 wrote:
No not at all
Barcia don't want to help anyone but Barcia which is how it should be for him. He's in 4th and his contract gets auto renewed if he finishes top 3 so he will be riding like a man possessed.

Not sure how Baggett feels about Tomac now, did time heal those wounds? On the same line of thinking if for example if Anderson gets taken out by Webb on a Sunday race he might still be spun up about it by Wednesday and seek retaliation that may not have happened if it was a normal 7 day break. Same type of thing you see in a Hockey playoff series, it can get awfully chippy after a few games.
kpiper
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5/28/2020 3:07pm
Web and Barcia will be going wild the first 2-3 races. AC as well. Also, JS will be 'in the way' with his good starts.

Eli and Kenny will be more conservative while they see how things play out in the first few races. Kenny could still run away with the first race if he pulls the holeshot.
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jmo443
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5/28/2020 3:12pm
kpiper wrote:
Web and Barcia will be going wild the first 2-3 races. AC as well. Also, JS will be 'in the way' with his good starts. Eli...
Web and Barcia will be going wild the first 2-3 races. AC as well. Also, JS will be 'in the way' with his good starts.

Eli and Kenny will be more conservative while they see how things play out in the first few races. Kenny could still run away with the first race if he pulls the holeshot.
No ones going to ride conservative when the season can be called after any round.
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cool_hand
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5/28/2020 4:06pm
It's Tomac's to loose,..KR is a BIG ?, Webb may be the dark horse, just don't think Bam Bong is got the metal this year.
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mxb2
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5/28/2020 4:55pm
kpiper wrote:
Web and Barcia will be going wild the first 2-3 races. AC as well. Also, JS will be 'in the way' with his good starts. Eli...
Web and Barcia will be going wild the first 2-3 races. AC as well. Also, JS will be 'in the way' with his good starts.

Eli and Kenny will be more conservative while they see how things play out in the first few races. Kenny could still run away with the first race if he pulls the holeshot.
JS?
5/28/2020 5:30pm
kpiper wrote:
Web and Barcia will be going wild the first 2-3 races. AC as well. Also, JS will be 'in the way' with his good starts. Eli...
Web and Barcia will be going wild the first 2-3 races. AC as well. Also, JS will be 'in the way' with his good starts.

Eli and Kenny will be more conservative while they see how things play out in the first few races. Kenny could still run away with the first race if he pulls the holeshot.
mxb2 wrote:
JS?
He’s probably thinking Savatgy but doesn’t know that he’s not racing.
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5/28/2020 5:50pm Edited Date/Time 5/28/2020 6:13pm
I’m always rooting for the boys in blue, but as this thing gets closer, I’m getting the feeling that the #1 is going to make this very interesting.

It’s been mentioned several times already, but the dude is just a gamer. He’s also one of the best at adapting to changing, deteriorating tracks which these will most certainly be, maybe even at an exponential rate like we’ve seldom seen due to the heat, lack of moisture and amount of laps on the same dirt.

The KTM is one of the best handling, most forgiving platforms and has excellent traction which will be at a premium on these tracks. He’s also a smaller guy on the lightest bike(?), so he will not need any more power, even at this elevation. If he can start at the front consistently, look out.

I’m sure he knows the championship is a long-shot so he really has no incentive to protect or be conservative like maybe Eli or Ken.

He probably knows the 51 is in a somewhat desperate situation right behind him, so hopefully that gives him extra motivation to try to get holeshots and avoid any drama with Bam.

Then consider he’s on arguably the best 450 team, with The Man, Ian and a bunch other fast dudes on orange and white bikes (wonder if there’s been any talk between those guys and the 22?). The stakes are high and we should expect the Austrians to do everything possible to keep the 450SX title streak going (and Aldon’s even longer streak - one title short of a decade).

And we know Aldon has him ready to go physically.
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mxb2
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5/28/2020 6:04pm
kpiper wrote:
Web and Barcia will be going wild the first 2-3 races. AC as well. Also, JS will be 'in the way' with his good starts. Eli...
Web and Barcia will be going wild the first 2-3 races. AC as well. Also, JS will be 'in the way' with his good starts.

Eli and Kenny will be more conservative while they see how things play out in the first few races. Kenny could still run away with the first race if he pulls the holeshot.
mxb2 wrote:
JS?
He’s probably thinking Savatgy but doesn’t know that he’s not racing.
Yea, i was confused. Lol
Excaliburbmx
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5/28/2020 6:28pm
spimx wrote:
Very likely one of the top 3 has a dnf for multiple raves. Likely it's Tomac with how stupid and desperate he was riding in the...
Very likely one of the top 3 has a dnf for multiple raves. Likely it's Tomac with how stupid and desperate he was riding in the last few races.
Press516 wrote:
ROFL... Stupid and desperate? His Daytona ride was classic Tomac. Nothing stupid and desperate about it.
Best racing of the year and you call it stupid and desperate?
How about entertaining and exciting!
Shaned9326
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5/28/2020 6:37pm
spimx wrote:
Very likely one of the top 3 has a dnf for multiple raves. Likely it's Tomac with how stupid and desperate he was riding in the...
Very likely one of the top 3 has a dnf for multiple raves. Likely it's Tomac with how stupid and desperate he was riding in the last few races.
Press516 wrote:
ROFL... Stupid and desperate? His Daytona ride was classic Tomac. Nothing stupid and desperate about it.
Best racing of the year and you call it stupid and desperate?
How about entertaining and exciting!
Bunch of Tomac haters on here it seems and when he waxes their boys on Sunday can’t wait to here their reason why!!
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Zycki11
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5/28/2020 6:49pm
Press516 wrote:
ROFL... Stupid and desperate? His Daytona ride was classic Tomac. Nothing stupid and desperate about it.
Best racing of the year and you call it stupid and desperate?
How about entertaining and exciting!
Shaned9326 wrote:
Bunch of Tomac haters on here it seems and when he waxes their boys on Sunday can’t wait to here their reason why!!
The same cliche robotic answer he always gives. Yeah sat behind so and so, made my way around and made a push. Settled it for you early. 🥱
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APLMAN99
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5/28/2020 6:55pm
McG194 wrote:
Barcia don't want to help anyone but Barcia which is how it should be for him. He's in 4th and his contract gets auto renewed if...
Barcia don't want to help anyone but Barcia which is how it should be for him. He's in 4th and his contract gets auto renewed if he finishes top 3 so he will be riding like a man possessed.

Not sure how Baggett feels about Tomac now, did time heal those wounds? On the same line of thinking if for example if Anderson gets taken out by Webb on a Sunday race he might still be spun up about it by Wednesday and seek retaliation that may not have happened if it was a normal 7 day break. Same type of thing you see in a Hockey playoff series, it can get awfully chippy after a few games.
One scenario that I could see related to the Barcia contract dealio………

He's currently only 2 points behind Webb, and 25 up on Anderson. I think he can probably survive the gap back to Anderson, but realistically he needs "something to happen" to Webb for hi to be comfortable in the top 3.

Would he be the type of guy to intentionally take Webb out in one of the early rounds? I can't say that I wouldn't think about something like that if I had a decent contract riding on it, but hopefully I wouldn't.

Does Barcia take out Webb in a tactical move, or does he only ride "rough" with guys when he gets emotional/pissed off? That could be a key question..........
5/28/2020 7:59pm
Be honest....how many of you here have considered naming your first born "Eli".... or perhaps legally changing your own name to "Eli".

Asking for a friend.

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kiwifan
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CA US
5/29/2020 12:09am Edited Date/Time 5/29/2020 12:10am
I’m always rooting for the boys in blue, but as this thing gets closer, I’m getting the feeling that the #1 is going to make this...
I’m always rooting for the boys in blue, but as this thing gets closer, I’m getting the feeling that the #1 is going to make this very interesting.

It’s been mentioned several times already, but the dude is just a gamer. He’s also one of the best at adapting to changing, deteriorating tracks which these will most certainly be, maybe even at an exponential rate like we’ve seldom seen due to the heat, lack of moisture and amount of laps on the same dirt.

The KTM is one of the best handling, most forgiving platforms and has excellent traction which will be at a premium on these tracks. He’s also a smaller guy on the lightest bike(?), so he will not need any more power, even at this elevation. If he can start at the front consistently, look out.

I’m sure he knows the championship is a long-shot so he really has no incentive to protect or be conservative like maybe Eli or Ken.

He probably knows the 51 is in a somewhat desperate situation right behind him, so hopefully that gives him extra motivation to try to get holeshots and avoid any drama with Bam.

Then consider he’s on arguably the best 450 team, with The Man, Ian and a bunch other fast dudes on orange and white bikes (wonder if there’s been any talk between those guys and the 22?). The stakes are high and we should expect the Austrians to do everything possible to keep the 450SX title streak going (and Aldon’s even longer streak - one title short of a decade).

And we know Aldon has him ready to go physically.
"The KTM is one of the best handling, most forgiving platforms and has excellent traction which will be at a premium on these tracks. He’s also a smaller guy on the lightest bike(?), so he will not need any more power, even at this elevation. If he can start at the front consistently, look out."

You do know that these are factory bikes, you can bet your bottom dollar that the factory YZF, CRF and RMZ (yes even that one) will be as forgiving, great handling, great traction and lighter just like the production KTM. So factory bike wise thats not going to be the difference.
WCRider
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5/29/2020 12:37am
Utah 1 will be like A1 so, I bet on AC for the win.

For some reasons, I think Ken will be the next champ.
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