ET vs JS vs RC

bbhMoto
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bbhMoto
Edited Date/Time 8/1/2018 11:53pm
Right now it looks like ET is the FMOTP. Wonder how he would compare to JS in his prime?

Seeing that many of the MX tracks are the same and have the same/similar layouts over the years, is it reasonably possible to compare ET's lap times vs JS and/or RC at Washougal or any or the other tracks?

Obviously things can't be compared 100% year to year, but do any obvious patterns emerge with respect to lap times?

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RG1
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RG1 7/30/2018 7:36am
7/30/2018 7:36am
You can't compare lap times from different times of the same day in motocross let alone from year to year. Stewart's prime on a 450 was 10 years ago, RC's even longer than that. Bikes have come a long way in that time. I would say that Tomac and JS7 have bit in common though. Niether of them have won nearly as much as they should have with the speed they have. Eli still has time to put that right though
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bbhMoto
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bbhMoto 7/30/2018 7:40am
7/30/2018 7:40am
"You can't compare lap times from different times of the same day in motocross let alone from year to year."

Understand, however if JB was 10 seconds a lap faster for example on the same track, that would be saying something, no?
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Flip109
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Flip109 7/30/2018 7:43am
7/30/2018 7:43am
Most of the tracks are different now though. That's the problem. However, if you can find one that is the same it would be cool to look at those times. Still wouldn't mean anything though. Just be fun to compare.
RG1
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RG1 7/30/2018 7:52am
7/30/2018 7:52am
bbhMoto wrote:
[i]"You can't compare lap times from different times of the same day in motocross let alone from year to year."[/i] Understand, however if JB was 10...
"You can't compare lap times from different times of the same day in motocross let alone from year to year."

Understand, however if JB was 10 seconds a lap faster for example on the same track, that would be saying something, no?
In my opinion, not really. You can only really get anything from comparing lap times when everyone is racing the same track at the same time. Perfect example of this is that last year Musquin's best lap in winning the second Moto at Washougal was a 2:11.590. Tomac's fastest lap in Moto 2 this weekend was almost 3 seconds slower at a 2:14.395 and yet he worked everyone this year. If you went back and JS7 had done a 2:03 it would mean nothing as far as Tomac or anyone else racing now is concerned
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bbhMoto
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bbhMoto 7/30/2018 8:13am
7/30/2018 8:13am
bbhMoto wrote:
[i]"You can't compare lap times from different times of the same day in motocross let alone from year to year."[/i] Understand, however if JB was 10...
"You can't compare lap times from different times of the same day in motocross let alone from year to year."

Understand, however if JB was 10 seconds a lap faster for example on the same track, that would be saying something, no?
RG1 wrote:
In my opinion, not really. You can only really get anything from comparing lap times when everyone is racing the same track at the same time...
In my opinion, not really. You can only really get anything from comparing lap times when everyone is racing the same track at the same time. Perfect example of this is that last year Musquin's best lap in winning the second Moto at Washougal was a 2:11.590. Tomac's fastest lap in Moto 2 this weekend was almost 3 seconds slower at a 2:14.395 and yet he worked everyone this year. If you went back and JS7 had done a 2:03 it would mean nothing as far as Tomac or anyone else racing now is concerned
Fair enough. But at Washougal it sure seemed like ET was as fast as JS7 ever was in his prime. When ET has his flashes of brilliance, he is untouched on a dirt bike speed wise. You just don't see anyone capable of going that fast...
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motomike137
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motomike137 7/30/2018 8:14am
7/30/2018 8:14am
The big difference is that Eli spends many more motos digging out of a hole. Ricky and James were much more consistent at starting up front and running away early. Could Eli hang with Bubba and the Goat? I'd say yes.
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RG1
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RG1 7/30/2018 8:16am
7/30/2018 8:16am
bbhMoto wrote:
[i]"You can't compare lap times from different times of the same day in motocross let alone from year to year."[/i] Understand, however if JB was 10...
"You can't compare lap times from different times of the same day in motocross let alone from year to year."

Understand, however if JB was 10 seconds a lap faster for example on the same track, that would be saying something, no?
RG1 wrote:
In my opinion, not really. You can only really get anything from comparing lap times when everyone is racing the same track at the same time...
In my opinion, not really. You can only really get anything from comparing lap times when everyone is racing the same track at the same time. Perfect example of this is that last year Musquin's best lap in winning the second Moto at Washougal was a 2:11.590. Tomac's fastest lap in Moto 2 this weekend was almost 3 seconds slower at a 2:14.395 and yet he worked everyone this year. If you went back and JS7 had done a 2:03 it would mean nothing as far as Tomac or anyone else racing now is concerned
bbhMoto wrote:
Fair enough. But at Washougal it sure seemed like ET was as fast as JS7 ever was in his prime. When ET has his flashes of...
Fair enough. But at Washougal it sure seemed like ET was as fast as JS7 ever was in his prime. When ET has his flashes of brilliance, he is untouched on a dirt bike speed wise. You just don't see anyone capable of going that fast...
Apart from a bloke from The Netherlands
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stewie94
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stewie94 7/30/2018 8:17am
7/30/2018 8:17am
bbhMoto wrote:
[i]"You can't compare lap times from different times of the same day in motocross let alone from year to year."[/i] Understand, however if JB was 10...
"You can't compare lap times from different times of the same day in motocross let alone from year to year."

Understand, however if JB was 10 seconds a lap faster for example on the same track, that would be saying something, no?
RG1 wrote:
In my opinion, not really. You can only really get anything from comparing lap times when everyone is racing the same track at the same time...
In my opinion, not really. You can only really get anything from comparing lap times when everyone is racing the same track at the same time. Perfect example of this is that last year Musquin's best lap in winning the second Moto at Washougal was a 2:11.590. Tomac's fastest lap in Moto 2 this weekend was almost 3 seconds slower at a 2:14.395 and yet he worked everyone this year. If you went back and JS7 had done a 2:03 it would mean nothing as far as Tomac or anyone else racing now is concerned
bbhMoto wrote:
Fair enough. But at Washougal it sure seemed like ET was as fast as JS7 ever was in his prime. When ET has his flashes of...
Fair enough. But at Washougal it sure seemed like ET was as fast as JS7 ever was in his prime. When ET has his flashes of brilliance, he is untouched on a dirt bike speed wise. You just don't see anyone capable of going that fast...
theres a dude across the pond who can go just as fast as eli , even still after breaking his collarbone
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mxb2 7/30/2018 8:23am
7/30/2018 8:23am
motomike137 wrote:
The big difference is that Eli spends many more motos digging out of a hole. Ricky and James were much more consistent at starting up front...
The big difference is that Eli spends many more motos digging out of a hole. Ricky and James were much more consistent at starting up front and running away early. Could Eli hang with Bubba and the Goat? I'd say yes.
Top of their game, nobody touches RC
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TDeath21
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TDeath21 7/30/2018 8:30am
7/30/2018 8:30am
Tomac and Stewart might be able to match RC’s speed occasionally, but they’d both wad up going that pace throughout the course of 24 motos. If all three rode within their comfort zone all season, Carmichael would win by 20+ each moto.
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mxb2
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mxb2 7/30/2018 8:35am
7/30/2018 8:35am
TDeath21 wrote:
Tomac and Stewart might be able to match RC’s speed occasionally, but they’d both wad up going that pace throughout the course of 24 motos. If...
Tomac and Stewart might be able to match RC’s speed occasionally, but they’d both wad up going that pace throughout the course of 24 motos. If all three rode within their comfort zone all season, Carmichael would win by 20+ each moto.
Bingo,. I would put rv. With any chance against rc.
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NateDawg
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NateDawg 7/30/2018 8:35am
7/30/2018 8:35am
Honestly, aside from the rare ride from Stewart, no one had anything for Carmichael outdoors when it came to speed. More often than not he just ran away from James. I think Tomac would have the occasional moto where he'd run the pace and snag a few wins. But week in, week out he wouldn't be able to do much with RC. Ricky got holeshots and then just destroyed the track for 35 minutes.
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RM Mike
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RM Mike 7/30/2018 8:39am
7/30/2018 8:39am
TDeath21 wrote:
Tomac and Stewart might be able to match RC’s speed occasionally, but they’d both wad up going that pace throughout the course of 24 motos. If...
Tomac and Stewart might be able to match RC’s speed occasionally, but they’d both wad up going that pace throughout the course of 24 motos. If all three rode within their comfort zone all season, Carmichael would win by 20+ each moto.
This is correct.
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agn5009
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agn5009 7/30/2018 8:54am
7/30/2018 8:54am
Eli ain't the FMOTP. FMITUSA sure, but until he beats Jeffrey Herlings you can't claim he's the fastest in the world.

The rest of your post, no to basically everything. You can't compare lap times. Different track conditions, different bikes (better), different competition, different ruts, different jumps, different corners, different starts. Literally everything is different about the track and bike. It is literally impossible to figure out whether RC, JS or ET is faster at three different times.

The only thing that's not impossible is guaging their careers. RC is obviously the best choice career wise.
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jsmi33966
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jsmi33966 7/30/2018 8:54am
7/30/2018 8:54am
I think JS7 was beating RC and RV when they were in there prime
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NateDawg
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NateDawg 7/30/2018 8:58am
7/30/2018 8:58am
jsmi33966 wrote:
I think JS7 was beating RC and RV when they were in there prime
Maybe in Supercross, we are talking outdoors. Go watch the entire 2006 MX season, RC whipped Bubba's ass almost every race. And almost all the motos Stewart won were because Carmichael had a crash or mistake. He rarely ever beat Ricky straight up.
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TDeath21
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TDeath21 7/30/2018 9:04am
7/30/2018 9:04am
jsmi33966 wrote:
I think JS7 was beating RC and RV when they were in there prime
Nope. In 05, Stewart won 0 motos. But he was on a 250 so there’s that. In 06, Stewart won 4 motos. In 1, Carmichael crashed in the first turn, in 1, Carmichael crashed twice in the race, and the other two Carmichael had the only non mechanical DNF and DNS of his career. In 07, Stewart won 3 motos against a semi-retired and already focusing on NASCAR Carmichael.

As far as Villopoto, we unfortunately only saw them compete against each other in 13 due to injuries and Stewart going SX only. In that season, Villopoto waxed everyone and I think only lost a couple motos to Stewart all year.

Now if we are talking about SX, yeah Stewart had the speed there on Carmichael. Just not the mental toughness to win a championship. As for Villopoto, Stewart would occasionally be faster, but Villopoto was always far and away the better championship contender and often was putting up the faster laptimes too.

So in conclusion, your statement really only applies to Carmichael in SX.
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FLmxer
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FLmxer 7/30/2018 9:36am
7/30/2018 9:36am
RC dominates all reality and speculation of dirt bike racing. GOAT!!!
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2WheelsForTheMasses 7/30/2018 10:43am
7/30/2018 10:43am
FLmxer wrote:
RC dominates all reality and speculation of dirt bike racing. GOAT!!!
Makes a lot of since considering Rc states that Js7 was the faster guy. In fact js7 was the fastest to ever do it and made it look the easiest.
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NateDawg
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NateDawg 7/30/2018 11:51am
7/30/2018 11:51am
FLmxer wrote:
RC dominates all reality and speculation of dirt bike racing. GOAT!!!
2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:
Makes a lot of since considering Rc states that Js7 was the faster guy. In fact js7 was the fastest to ever do it and made...
Makes a lot of since considering Rc states that Js7 was the faster guy. In fact js7 was the fastest to ever do it and made it look the easiest.
In SUPERCROSS!

Anyone who watched every MOTOCROSS race from 2005-2007 knows RC was flat out faster than Stewart.
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What Is Zen
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What Is Zen 7/30/2018 12:05pm
7/30/2018 12:05pm
bbhMoto wrote:
Right now it looks like ET is the FMOTP. Wonder how he would compare to JS in his prime? Seeing that many of the MX tracks...
Right now it looks like ET is the FMOTP. Wonder how he would compare to JS in his prime?

Seeing that many of the MX tracks are the same and have the same/similar layouts over the years, is it reasonably possible to compare ET's lap times vs JS and/or RC at Washougal or any or the other tracks?

Obviously things can't be compared 100% year to year, but do any obvious patterns emerge with respect to lap times?

I bet Herlings would have something to say about Eli being the fastest man on the planet.
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bbhMoto
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bbhMoto 7/30/2018 1:14pm
7/30/2018 1:14pm
bbhMoto wrote:
Right now it looks like ET is the FMOTP. Wonder how he would compare to JS in his prime? Seeing that many of the MX tracks...
Right now it looks like ET is the FMOTP. Wonder how he would compare to JS in his prime?

Seeing that many of the MX tracks are the same and have the same/similar layouts over the years, is it reasonably possible to compare ET's lap times vs JS and/or RC at Washougal or any or the other tracks?

Obviously things can't be compared 100% year to year, but do any obvious patterns emerge with respect to lap times?

What Is Zen wrote:
I bet Herlings would have something to say about Eli being the fastest man on the planet.
Is there any chance Herlings or Cairoli will race Tomac?
bbhMoto
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bbhMoto 7/30/2018 1:15pm
7/30/2018 1:15pm
FLmxer wrote:
RC dominates all reality and speculation of dirt bike racing. GOAT!!!
2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:
Makes a lot of since considering Rc states that Js7 was the faster guy. In fact js7 was the fastest to ever do it and made...
Makes a lot of since considering Rc states that Js7 was the faster guy. In fact js7 was the fastest to ever do it and made it look the easiest.
NateDawg wrote:
In SUPERCROSS!

Anyone who watched every MOTOCROSS race from 2005-2007 knows RC was flat out faster than Stewart.
In 2006 would it be fair to say that RC and JS were at their peak performance? Or was RC tapering off a bit and JS on the rise?
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WCRider 7/30/2018 1:22pm
7/30/2018 1:22pm
What Is Zen wrote:
I bet Herlings would have something to say about Eli being the fastest man on the planet.
I rarely hear a commentator say "Woah" when I watch Herlings. I hear a lot "Woah" when i watch Tomac...
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RichardLoots 7/30/2018 1:23pm
7/30/2018 1:23pm
bbhMoto wrote:
Is there any chance Herlings or Cairoli will race Tomac?
they did at USGP last year and will race again at MXON this year

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