ET Damage Control: To Little, to Late?

early
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5/30/2018 9:56am
The Olympic system is well tested. Lowest score wins.

1-1pt
2-2pt
3-3pt
etc.

No calculators needed, no runaway series.
Well, that's your opinion that Olympic scoring would be better, and it's wrong Cool
ACBraap
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5/30/2018 10:06am
keinz wrote:
So far i don't understand, why all the MX guys don't train in the higher altitudes. In Nordic skiing it's commom that the teams going to...
So far i don't understand, why all the MX guys don't train in the higher altitudes. In Nordic skiing it's commom that the teams going to the boot camp to the highter mountains before the season starts. And if you can't afford that. We have **Alp houses**, where basicaly artificially same conditions like in the hight mountains. It's all about increase your red blood cells.

Fuuck. I have to start selling those houses to the teamsSmile
The same reason that EPO isn't an issue in MX the way it is aerobic sports. In MX one needs to be fit enough to enable riding as fast as possible. It's that combination of riding skills and fitness that enables riding at maximum ability that is so different from sports where fitness alone is the primary factor.

Also, not saying that Nordic skiing is easy by any stretch. I sure struggle with it. More that, for example, in Nordic skiing and road cycling, the races are decided by fitness differences more than skill differences, where in moto skill gets a much bigger portion of the blame pie.
Johnny Depp
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5/30/2018 10:10am
2 races out of 12. Relax. 84% still to go. That being said, I'd like a points system where average finish is your points. Nothing extra...
2 races out of 12. Relax. 84% still to go.

That being said, I'd like a points system where average finish is your points. Nothing extra for winning. Keeps it closer.
eGGz wrote:
Please explain how that system would change anything? If you average the riders finishes they end up in the same order as if you award points...
Please explain how that system would change anything?
If you average the riders finishes they end up in the same order as if you award points based on their finishing position.
Wrong thread, but when it's race 2 and people think it's over, we have a problem.

A points system is defined by how many positions in any given race it takes to regain the series lead.

When you increase the gap for 1st, 2nd and 3rd you make it more difficult for anyone to reel them back in. If you can keep the positions needed still possible down to the last race, there is at least a chance.

http://www.promotocross.com/mx/series-points/2018

Let's take Roczen for example as a dark horse with a chance. In the current system he has more to overcome to get back in the hunt as he is 47 points (or a win and a 2nd) if no one else scored any points. He's F'd.

In an Olympic system, with a 6/16/3/8 he would have 33 points to ET3's 4. 29 positions apart with 20 point paying spots (there should be more). Still a long way, but if he won, and ET3 had 1 moto worse than 20th and another worse than 9th KR94's tied for the lead.
aharper33
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5/30/2018 10:32am
51xc wrote:
aldon baker is not john tomac. john tomac himself has competed on the highest level possible in xc, downhill and road racing. nobody heard of aldon...
aldon baker is not john tomac. john tomac himself has competed on the highest level possible in xc, downhill and road racing. nobody heard of aldon baker before RC hired him. I'm not saying baker is a rubbish trainer but john is one of the best athletes mointainbiking has ever seen. there is a huge carry-over onto eli. that's why he has the edge as soon as it get's tough in my opinion.
This is the reason Tomac is Tomac. When you live in the same house as one of the best mountain bikers in the world you are bound to pick up a few tricks on the way they train. I remember reading an interview a few years ago with Eli and he was saying that he had just beat his dad for the first time on a mountain bike.

The Shop

andy
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5/30/2018 10:39am
You guys don't understand. I live at 10,200 feet. The proper stimulus for training is live high train low. You can do more work at low alt therefore better training stimulus. It's greatly misunderstood.
early
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5/30/2018 10:40am
aharper33 wrote:
This is the reason Tomac is Tomac. When you live in the same house as one of the best mountain bikers in the world you are...
This is the reason Tomac is Tomac. When you live in the same house as one of the best mountain bikers in the world you are bound to pick up a few tricks on the way they train. I remember reading an interview a few years ago with Eli and he was saying that he had just beat his dad for the first time on a mountain bike.
I think it's a 2 way street. I think he puts so much pressure on himself that it hurts. The only time he looks relaxed is when he has a comfortable lead and has a chance to have some fun riding, then when he wins, it's back to business for the next week.
PRM31
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5/30/2018 10:55am
It used to be a big deal to train at altitude. As I understand it the thinking evolved to training at lower altitude, where you had more oxygen and could actually work harder, but then sleep at higher elevations (chamber) so your body would produce additional red blood cells.
I haven't followed it in awhile, so not certain though. I grew up at 9,000' and thought going down to Denver was great. So easy to breathe!
5/30/2018 11:08am
This may be a dumb question, but isn’t there less oxygen in the air when there is high humidity? What’s the difference?
eGGz
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5/30/2018 11:08am
Wrong thread, but when it's race 2 and people think it's over, we have a problem. A points system is defined by how many positions in...
Wrong thread, but when it's race 2 and people think it's over, we have a problem.

A points system is defined by how many positions in any given race it takes to regain the series lead.

When you increase the gap for 1st, 2nd and 3rd you make it more difficult for anyone to reel them back in. If you can keep the positions needed still possible down to the last race, there is at least a chance.

http://www.promotocross.com/mx/series-points/2018

Let's take Roczen for example as a dark horse with a chance. In the current system he has more to overcome to get back in the hunt as he is 47 points (or a win and a 2nd) if no one else scored any points. He's F'd.

In an Olympic system, with a 6/16/3/8 he would have 33 points to ET3's 4. 29 positions apart with 20 point paying spots (there should be more). Still a long way, but if he won, and ET3 had 1 moto worse than 20th and another worse than 9th KR94's tied for the lead.
Yep, After doing the math for myself, I get it now. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the explanation.
Cheers...
Hank_Thrill
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5/30/2018 11:21am
kb228 wrote:
I think eli has a huge advantage by training at altitude. Hes just as fit as anderson and marv with way less oxygen. So when he...
I think eli has a huge advantage by training at altitude. Hes just as fit as anderson and marv with way less oxygen. So when he goes back down to sea level to race his body has so much oxygen its probably similar to blood doping legitimately.

I might be way off but just my observation.
One thing about living at altitude is that you can’t stress the body as much physically as you can near sea level.

I remember RV2 in 2011 started the first few rounds way behind Dungey and Reed. I think Marv will improve his new machine and Anderson will become more fit as the weeks go on.
Hank_Thrill
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5/30/2018 11:24am
PRM31 wrote:
It used to be a big deal to train at altitude. As I understand it the thinking evolved to training at lower altitude, where you had...
It used to be a big deal to train at altitude. As I understand it the thinking evolved to training at lower altitude, where you had more oxygen and could actually work harder, but then sleep at higher elevations (chamber) so your body would produce additional red blood cells.
I haven't followed it in awhile, so not certain though. I grew up at 9,000' and thought going down to Denver was great. So easy to breathe!
Spot on. I know cyclist who come down to Texas to race. Their oxygen capacity is great but their legs are toasted after two hours on the bike since they are able to ride harder closer to sea level.
smit9722
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5/30/2018 11:44am
kb228 wrote:
I think eli has a huge advantage by training at altitude. Hes just as fit as anderson and marv with way less oxygen. So when he...
I think eli has a huge advantage by training at altitude. Hes just as fit as anderson and marv with way less oxygen. So when he goes back down to sea level to race his body has so much oxygen its probably similar to blood doping legitimately.

I might be way off but just my observation.
There is no conclusive scientific evidence that training at high altitudes provides an advantage at sea level (training at altitude [i]does[/i] provide an advantage when performing...
There is no conclusive scientific evidence that training at high altitudes provides an advantage at sea level (training at altitude does provide an advantage when performing at altitude versus athletes training at sea level).

You just won't be able to take advantage of the extra count in red blood cells at sea level, it is not how the body works.

I don't think Eli has an edge in terms of being more physically fit than the rest of the Elite riders. I just think he's faster -sometimes too fast for his own good-. Anderson appears to be under trained for two 34-minute motos, but the rest of them? Nay.

PS: the other rider who is dominating the sport is Herlings. The dude is Dutch. Netherlands is as flat and as low as Florida (albeit less hot).
Happy someone stated some facts for once.
5/30/2018 11:50am
(methylhexanamine)
eGGz wrote:
You bring up an interesting point. Since the Tickle debacle, I wonder what precautions certain riders/teams take to assure that anything they ingest hasn't been tampered...
You bring up an interesting point. Since the Tickle debacle, I wonder what precautions certain riders/teams take to assure that anything they ingest hasn't been tampered with?
Not to start another debate on the PEDs thing, but they aren't trying to make sure nothing is tampered with. They are taking better precautions not to get caught. Aldon's boys are juicing. no doubt. You think Tomac can smoke them and be clean?

If it were up to me, I'd say put strict rules on the machine, and let the riders take whatever they want.
Racer111
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5/30/2018 11:57am
kb228 wrote:
I think eli has a huge advantage by training at altitude. Hes just as fit as anderson and marv with way less oxygen. So when he...
I think eli has a huge advantage by training at altitude. Hes just as fit as anderson and marv with way less oxygen. So when he goes back down to sea level to race his body has so much oxygen its probably similar to blood doping legitimately.

I might be way off but just my observation.
There is no conclusive scientific evidence that training at high altitudes provides an advantage at sea level (training at altitude [i]does[/i] provide an advantage when performing...
There is no conclusive scientific evidence that training at high altitudes provides an advantage at sea level (training at altitude does provide an advantage when performing at altitude versus athletes training at sea level).

You just won't be able to take advantage of the extra count in red blood cells at sea level, it is not how the body works.

I don't think Eli has an edge in terms of being more physically fit than the rest of the Elite riders. I just think he's faster -sometimes too fast for his own good-. Anderson appears to be under trained for two 34-minute motos, but the rest of them? Nay.

PS: the other rider who is dominating the sport is Herlings. The dude is Dutch. Netherlands is as flat and as low as Florida (albeit less hot).
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. If there were no eveidene, every pro cyclist and pro triathlete wouldn’t spend months of their training AT alititude. Of course it works. Any time you have an increased count in red blood cells it’s going to help. More red blood cells = more oxygen. Hell, it’s the reason our Olympic Training Facility is in Colorado.
andy
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5/30/2018 12:01pm
False
eGGz
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5/30/2018 12:43pm
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eGGz wrote:
You bring up an interesting point. Since the Tickle debacle, I wonder what precautions certain riders/teams take to assure that anything they ingest hasn't been tampered...
You bring up an interesting point. Since the Tickle debacle, I wonder what precautions certain riders/teams take to assure that anything they ingest hasn't been tampered with?
Not to start another debate on the PEDs thing, but they aren't trying to make sure nothing is tampered with. They are taking better precautions not...
Not to start another debate on the PEDs thing, but they aren't trying to make sure nothing is tampered with. They are taking better precautions not to get caught. Aldon's boys are juicing. no doubt. You think Tomac can smoke them and be clean?

If it were up to me, I'd say put strict rules on the machine, and let the riders take whatever they want.
To clarify my question regarding precautions.
If someone is willing to shine a laser in a rider's eyes at the starting gate. Then isn't it plausible that the same type person would be willing to slip a banned substance into a competitors food/drink i.e."tamper with." Admittedly, this borders on conspiracy theory and is quite a stretch. However when championships are worth serious money these days, I believe that almost anything is possible and it would be prudent for riders/teams to consider such a scenario.
WCRider
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5/30/2018 12:49pm Edited Date/Time 5/30/2018 12:58pm
Racer111 wrote:
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. If there were no eveidene, every pro cyclist and pro triathlete wouldn’t spend months of their training...
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. If there were no eveidene, every pro cyclist and pro triathlete wouldn’t spend months of their training AT alititude. Of course it works. Any time you have an increased count in red blood cells it’s going to help. More red blood cells = more oxygen. Hell, it’s the reason our Olympic Training Facility is in Colorado.
This. Like when you want to oxygenate, you go to the sea.


ET is a very high level athlete.Excellent genetics. We feel the force of nature in him, something bestial, rough, like anyone else except Herlings. It's like Rocky training in Russia... It's consistent with his lifestyle. His style is very worked. He optimizes everything, thinks about everything.He wants to be effective no tralala he doesn't care about whip. He has evolved on the last two years. More in the zone on the Kawi, he found the right balance between man and machine and his shape is back. He become more matures,he's like good wine as I said a long time ago. He seem's good with Jessica, that's important for a pro. This guy is one of the best riders in the history of motocross. A pure product of what the cross us does best. Of course he has weaknesses but he works on.

https://youtu.be/8cJWbsbWwxg?t=14 Corner genocide.
Johnny Depp
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5/30/2018 12:55pm Edited Date/Time 5/30/2018 12:56pm
eGGz wrote:
You bring up an interesting point. Since the Tickle debacle, I wonder what precautions certain riders/teams take to assure that anything they ingest hasn't been tampered...
You bring up an interesting point. Since the Tickle debacle, I wonder what precautions certain riders/teams take to assure that anything they ingest hasn't been tampered with?
Not to start another debate on the PEDs thing, but they aren't trying to make sure nothing is tampered with. They are taking better precautions not...
Not to start another debate on the PEDs thing, but they aren't trying to make sure nothing is tampered with. They are taking better precautions not to get caught. Aldon's boys are juicing. no doubt. You think Tomac can smoke them and be clean?

If it were up to me, I'd say put strict rules on the machine, and let the riders take whatever they want.
eGGz wrote:
To clarify my question regarding precautions. If someone is willing to shine a laser in a rider's eyes at the starting gate. Then isn't it plausible...
To clarify my question regarding precautions.
If someone is willing to shine a laser in a rider's eyes at the starting gate. Then isn't it plausible that the same type person would be willing to slip a banned substance into a competitors food/drink i.e."tamper with." Admittedly, this borders on conspiracy theory and is quite a stretch. However when championships are worth serious money these days, I believe that almost anything is possible and it would be prudent for riders/teams to consider such a scenario.
You had me at conspiracy.

I would never go that far, I mean that is dirty dirty. I absolutely go no further than spinning their suspension clickers.Woohoo
SCR
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5/30/2018 1:24pm
Racer111 wrote:
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. If there were no eveidene, every pro cyclist and pro triathlete wouldn’t spend months of their training...
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. If there were no eveidene, every pro cyclist and pro triathlete wouldn’t spend months of their training AT alititude. Of course it works. Any time you have an increased count in red blood cells it’s going to help. More red blood cells = more oxygen. Hell, it’s the reason our Olympic Training Facility is in Colorado.
WCRider wrote:
This. Like when you want to oxygenate, you go to the sea. ET is a very high level athlete.Excellent genetics. We feel the force of nature...
This. Like when you want to oxygenate, you go to the sea.


ET is a very high level athlete.Excellent genetics. We feel the force of nature in him, something bestial, rough, like anyone else except Herlings. It's like Rocky training in Russia... It's consistent with his lifestyle. His style is very worked. He optimizes everything, thinks about everything.He wants to be effective no tralala he doesn't care about whip. He has evolved on the last two years. More in the zone on the Kawi, he found the right balance between man and machine and his shape is back. He become more matures,he's like good wine as I said a long time ago. He seem's good with Jessica, that's important for a pro. This guy is one of the best riders in the history of motocross. A pure product of what the cross us does best. Of course he has weaknesses but he works on.

https://youtu.be/8cJWbsbWwxg?t=14 Corner genocide.
Weege and Langston can't figure out what they just saw. " Anderson made a mistake, no, he's on the gas but the Huskys not going, No, the clutch ?, I don't know", Maybe, um.......
Tomac pinned it and never let off, Anderson didnt.
Tomac is one of the rare handful of guys over the years for sure.

early
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5/30/2018 1:28pm
SCR wrote:
Weege and Langston can't figure out what they just saw. " Anderson made a mistake, no, he's on the gas but the Huskys not going, No...
Weege and Langston can't figure out what they just saw. " Anderson made a mistake, no, he's on the gas but the Huskys not going, No, the clutch ?, I don't know", Maybe, um.......
Tomac pinned it and never let off, Anderson didnt.
Tomac is one of the rare handful of guys over the years for sure.

When ET and KRoc are on they are sooooooo fun to watch, but for different reasons. More fun than RC, RD, RV. Only JS7 was more impressive in America.
5/30/2018 1:58pm
Racer111 wrote:
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. If there were no eveidene, every pro cyclist and pro triathlete wouldn’t spend months of their training...
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. If there were no eveidene, every pro cyclist and pro triathlete wouldn’t spend months of their training AT alititude. Of course it works. Any time you have an increased count in red blood cells it’s going to help. More red blood cells = more oxygen. Hell, it’s the reason our Olympic Training Facility is in Colorado.
You think only red blood cell counts come into account on athletic performance? There is a whole array of physiological processes that we're only beginning to understand (we know a LOT, but there's just a ton more to figure out).

On aerobic exercises oxygen helps break down several types of sugar (which ones depend on a lot of factors) into ATP. That process tops out at a certain rate, no matter how much oxygen you blood can carry. As I mentioned I did not state "it never works". I said it has only been proven to work in one direction (athletes trained in height and at sea level competing in height).

I will now proceed to get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.





WCRider
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5/30/2018 2:13pm Edited Date/Time 5/30/2018 2:25pm
early wrote:
When ET and KRoc are on they are sooooooo fun to watch, but for different reasons. More fun than RC, RD, RV. Only JS7 was more...
When ET and KRoc are on they are sooooooo fun to watch, but for different reasons. More fun than RC, RD, RV. Only JS7 was more impressive in America.
ET vs Kroc it's like Messi vs CR7. Two riders completely different. Kroc is more modern, he is aerial, light on the bike, this is a feather with a shaft of steel. He has the riding of his physics same for ET. ET is more traditional, tough like the old generation with a part of modernity, it's a mix between old school riding and modern riding with his personnal touch like his feet/legs technique and his power strength.

JS7 I've never been a fan because being so lazy when you have so much talent it's a shame but technically, he was the best.

RC was the most impressive for me. I was in Zolder, I was a huge Everts fan but I always knew who was the master. I was sure RC was going to destroy Everts. RC had already won the mental game before the start because Everts knew who was the best. The Everts arm pump proves it. I m a farmer, i like farmers.

The top of the American motocross has always been a bit better than the top of the European motocross and the European's wants to punch me when I say that. They are chauvinists but facts are the facts. Now, it's balancing i think.
early
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5/30/2018 2:22pm
WCRider wrote:
ET vs Kroc it's like Messi vs CR7. Two riders completely different. Kroc is more modern, he is aerial, light on the bike, this is a...
ET vs Kroc it's like Messi vs CR7. Two riders completely different. Kroc is more modern, he is aerial, light on the bike, this is a feather with a shaft of steel. He has the riding of his physics same for ET. ET is more traditional, tough like the old generation with a part of modernity, it's a mix between old school riding and modern riding with his personnal touch like his feet/legs technique and his power strength.

JS7 I've never been a fan because being so lazy when you have so much talent it's a shame but technically, he was the best.

RC was the most impressive for me. I was in Zolder, I was a huge Everts fan but I always knew who was the master. I was sure RC was going to destroy Everts. RC had already won the mental game before the start because Everts knew who was the best. The Everts arm pump proves it. I m a farmer, i like farmers.

The top of the American motocross has always been a bit better than the top of the European motocross and the European's wants to punch me when I say that. They are chauvinists but facts are the facts. Now, it's balancing i think.
RCs bulldog style was impressive (that it was physically possible) but not necessarily fun to watch IMHO.
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5/30/2018 2:42pm
early wrote:
RCs bulldog style was impressive (that it was physically possible) but not necessarily fun to watch IMHO.
Bulldog style is fun imo, not the most beautiful to watch but it was effective. It's a question of tastes and colors...Wink

No matter the style when you win...Roger Decoster's sentence about the riding style of Yves Demaria at the USMXGP 94. It was at Budds creek if I remember correctly.
5/30/2018 4:26pm
Give it time. Statistics show Tomac will Tomac. Points will even out. Unfortunate but true.
eGGz wrote:
Still, it must be somewhat psychologically defeating knowing that your only chance at the championship is if your main competition has a crash, injury, or mechanical...
Still, it must be somewhat psychologically defeating knowing that your only chance at the championship is if your main competition has a crash, injury, or mechanical failure.
Agreed. I don’t think anyone in the 450 class doesn’t know that if Tomac keeps it on two wheels, they don’t stand a chance.
Racer111
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5/30/2018 4:44pm
Racer111 wrote:
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. If there were no eveidene, every pro cyclist and pro triathlete wouldn’t spend months of their training...
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. If there were no eveidene, every pro cyclist and pro triathlete wouldn’t spend months of their training AT alititude. Of course it works. Any time you have an increased count in red blood cells it’s going to help. More red blood cells = more oxygen. Hell, it’s the reason our Olympic Training Facility is in Colorado.
You think only red blood cell counts come into account on athletic performance? There is a whole array of physiological processes that we're only beginning to...
You think only red blood cell counts come into account on athletic performance? There is a whole array of physiological processes that we're only beginning to understand (we know a LOT, but there's just a ton more to figure out).

On aerobic exercises oxygen helps break down several types of sugar (which ones depend on a lot of factors) into ATP. That process tops out at a certain rate, no matter how much oxygen you blood can carry. As I mentioned I did not state "it never works". I said it has only been proven to work in one direction (athletes trained in height and at sea level competing in height).

I will now proceed to get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.





Go back and watch Ironman Hawaii 2011. Craig Alexander decided to train at Altitude the whole year. At age 39 he destroyed the entire field and set multiple course records. Read his book. He goes in depth on how training at altitude helped him have the best season of racing he ever had. He killed everyone that year at sea level. Then set another course record in Australia 3 months later and went under 8 hours in the event. That’s 2.4 mile swim, 112 miles on the bike and then a full 26.2 mile marathon in under 8 hours.
RJMX834
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5/30/2018 5:27pm
Racer111 wrote:
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. If there were no eveidene, every pro cyclist and pro triathlete wouldn’t spend months of their training...
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. If there were no eveidene, every pro cyclist and pro triathlete wouldn’t spend months of their training AT alititude. Of course it works. Any time you have an increased count in red blood cells it’s going to help. More red blood cells = more oxygen. Hell, it’s the reason our Olympic Training Facility is in Colorado.
WCRider wrote:
This. Like when you want to oxygenate, you go to the sea. ET is a very high level athlete.Excellent genetics. We feel the force of nature...
This. Like when you want to oxygenate, you go to the sea.


ET is a very high level athlete.Excellent genetics. We feel the force of nature in him, something bestial, rough, like anyone else except Herlings. It's like Rocky training in Russia... It's consistent with his lifestyle. His style is very worked. He optimizes everything, thinks about everything.He wants to be effective no tralala he doesn't care about whip. He has evolved on the last two years. More in the zone on the Kawi, he found the right balance between man and machine and his shape is back. He become more matures,he's like good wine as I said a long time ago. He seem's good with Jessica, that's important for a pro. This guy is one of the best riders in the history of motocross. A pure product of what the cross us does best. Of course he has weaknesses but he works on.

https://youtu.be/8cJWbsbWwxg?t=14 Corner genocide.
SCR wrote:
Weege and Langston can't figure out what they just saw. " Anderson made a mistake, no, he's on the gas but the Huskys not going, No...
Weege and Langston can't figure out what they just saw. " Anderson made a mistake, no, he's on the gas but the Huskys not going, No, the clutch ?, I don't know", Maybe, um.......
Tomac pinned it and never let off, Anderson didnt.
Tomac is one of the rare handful of guys over the years for sure.

I was just about to bring this up. When langston started talking about Anderson's possible bike failures when ET made the pass, i was like get the heck out of here. He just can't/won't recognize greatness when he sees it.
5/30/2018 5:32pm
Racer111 wrote:
Go back and watch Ironman Hawaii 2011. Craig Alexander decided to train at Altitude the whole year. At age 39 he destroyed the entire field and...
Go back and watch Ironman Hawaii 2011. Craig Alexander decided to train at Altitude the whole year. At age 39 he destroyed the entire field and set multiple course records. Read his book. He goes in depth on how training at altitude helped him have the best season of racing he ever had. He killed everyone that year at sea level. Then set another course record in Australia 3 months later and went under 8 hours in the event. That’s 2.4 mile swim, 112 miles on the bike and then a full 26.2 mile marathon in under 8 hours.
I know Craig Alexander, and I know how Ironmans work.

If you re-read I've stated "there is no conclusive Scientific evidence". I did not say:

- Training on Altitude never works
- Everything is bullshit.
- No new evidence ever is going to prove otherwise

I can cite cases of individual athletes who have not benefited from training high or living high.
The most cited paper on the mater reads:

"Whilst it is clear that adequate acclimatisation, or better still, being born and raised at altitude, is necessary to achieve optimal physical performance at altitude, scientific evidence to support the potentiating effects after return to sea level is at present equivocal. Despite this, elite athletes continue to spend considerable time and resources training at altitude, misled by subjective coaching opinion and the inconclusive findings of a large number of uncontrolled studies."

In case you want the full paper (it is free):
Physiological Implications of altitude

On a personal note: I was born and raised in the mountains, but have lived at sea level for the past 17 years. I have hopped into airplanes, spent a couple of weeks in both Bogotá (3000 meters / 9000 feet above sea level) and Mexico DF (2200 meters / 7200 feet above sea level), hopped on a mountain bike or run a half marathon and was unaffected by it all, while better trained guys that traveled with me were panting after only a few kilometers.
kkawboy14
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5/30/2018 6:03pm
Tomac didn’t even seem winded after that second moto!
Motodork
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5/30/2018 6:42pm
stone881 wrote:
Bingo! Spend 3 hours pedaling a mtb up/down and around at 9000 feet if you are living at sea level and the difference is quite noticeable...
Bingo! Spend 3 hours pedaling a mtb up/down and around at 9000 feet if you are living at sea level and the difference is quite noticeable. Additionally growing up at elevation can give you anatomically larger lungs than normal.

I just bought 45 acres about 10 miles north of Cortez, tracks to come, in case anyone wants to come and train at 6800 feet.
North as in Lewis or as in Dolores? I had a track back in the 90's right off HWY 491, used to be HWY 666 back then.

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