E water pumps?

lumpy790
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lumpy790
How many racers are running the electric water pump at Lorettas?
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ML512
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ML512 8/3/2022 9:27am
8/3/2022 9:27am
lumpy790 wrote:
How many racers are running the electric water pump at Lorettas?
A couple are. I know Viney and Aden Keefer have them on their 250s…Hymas might.
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Falcon
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Falcon 8/3/2022 11:40am
8/3/2022 11:40am
Can they be purchased somewhere?
Are there still such a thing as moto dads?
Then yes, I'd say all the bikes in the 250 A Mod and 250 B Mod classes have one. You need it to win, right? Grinning
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lumpy790
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lumpy790 8/3/2022 12:23pm
8/3/2022 12:23pm
Falcon wrote:
Can they be purchased somewhere? Are there still such a thing as moto dads? Then yes, I'd say all the bikes in the 250 A Mod...
Can they be purchased somewhere?
Are there still such a thing as moto dads?
Then yes, I'd say all the bikes in the 250 A Mod and 250 B Mod classes have one. You need it to win, right? Grinning
Think someone was going to offer them but not me.

Several top teams were using them in SX and with the temps at LL it wouldn’t surprise me if lots were using it.
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Falcon 8/3/2022 1:21pm
8/3/2022 1:21pm Edited Date/Time 8/3/2022 1:22pm
^ I was poking fun at mini dads, but I actually think they are of some value. Any amount of cooling that can be added to a 250F race motor is beneficial.

EDIT: I was also going to say that it's a logical extension to your product line, Lumpy.
lumpy790
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lumpy790 8/3/2022 2:15pm
8/3/2022 2:15pm
Falcon wrote:
^ I was poking fun at mini dads, but I actually think they are of some value. Any amount of cooling that can be added to...
^ I was poking fun at mini dads, but I actually think they are of some value. Any amount of cooling that can be added to a 250F race motor is beneficial.

EDIT: I was also going to say that it's a logical extension to your product line, Lumpy.
Swamped with just making regular radiator hoses with our redesigning the cooling system again 😆
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dancolvin633 8/3/2022 10:17pm
8/3/2022 10:17pm
Jamie at Twisted I believe has them for all 250s except Austrian per the podcast I did with him last week.
tek14
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tek14 8/3/2022 11:24pm
8/3/2022 11:24pm
dancolvin633 wrote:
Jamie at Twisted I believe has them for all 250s except Austrian per the podcast I did with him last week.
Havent heard any reviews how much that will free up motor. Adding just basic automotive pump to MX bike sounds pretty easy, just plug to replace water pump shaft. Less engine braking due less stress for motor sound great but is that missing in marginals when talking about deleting original water pump?
David934
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David934 8/4/2022 12:30am
8/4/2022 12:30am
Whats the real reason putting epump into the bike?
Gungadin
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Gungadin 8/4/2022 12:39am
8/4/2022 12:39am
David934 wrote:
Whats the real reason putting epump into the bike?
Fashion.

Best way to get more cooling with factory reliability is to use a larger impeller mechanically driven as per standard to circulate the coolant faster. This is what factory teams use.
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chuckdavies
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chuckdavies 8/4/2022 1:40am
8/4/2022 1:40am
Falcon wrote:
Can they be purchased somewhere? Are there still such a thing as moto dads? Then yes, I'd say all the bikes in the 250 A Mod...
Can they be purchased somewhere?
Are there still such a thing as moto dads?
Then yes, I'd say all the bikes in the 250 A Mod and 250 B Mod classes have one. You need it to win, right? Grinning
lumpy790 wrote:
Think someone was going to offer them but not me. Several top teams were using them in SX and with the temps at LL it wouldn’t...
Think someone was going to offer them but not me.

Several top teams were using them in SX and with the temps at LL it wouldn’t surprise me if lots were using it.
I thought it was more to do with gaining power due to removing the mechanical waterpump, rather than to reduce temps
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Gungadin
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Gungadin 8/4/2022 2:35am
8/4/2022 2:35am
Falcon wrote:
Can they be purchased somewhere? Are there still such a thing as moto dads? Then yes, I'd say all the bikes in the 250 A Mod...
Can they be purchased somewhere?
Are there still such a thing as moto dads?
Then yes, I'd say all the bikes in the 250 A Mod and 250 B Mod classes have one. You need it to win, right? Grinning
lumpy790 wrote:
Think someone was going to offer them but not me. Several top teams were using them in SX and with the temps at LL it wouldn’t...
Think someone was going to offer them but not me.

Several top teams were using them in SX and with the temps at LL it wouldn’t surprise me if lots were using it.
chuckdavies wrote:
I thought it was more to do with gaining power due to removing the mechanical waterpump, rather than to reduce temps
That reduction in parasitic loss but greater electrical load to run the motor (or the weight of a battery if a constant drain setup) is also part of it but hard to quantify.

If your 250 has much higher compression and is being operated higher in the rpm band then running hot is a reliability issue so a better cooling maintains the power gains.
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whips 8/4/2022 2:40am
8/4/2022 2:40am
From what I heard with the Honda 250 it’s more the reduction of power loss than making more power, like the bike gets hot and loses 4hp and with the e pump it doesn’t get as hot and only looses 3hp so the pump is good for 1hp on paper
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AH387 8/4/2022 6:19am
8/4/2022 6:19am
I'm sure ML can chime in to confirm but I thought that they said Hondas were running it to help bridge the power gap that they felt Star had. The less drag made a pretty significant difference on the Hondas but not as noticeable on the Star bike. But supposedly Nichols still didn't run it because he wanted the power to be smoother. Obviously, the system would help cooling too, since it isn't dependent on RPM but how hot are these 250s getting in a 20min race in January? I was under the assumption that less drag on the motor was the main goal?
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183Matt
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183Matt 8/4/2022 7:17am
8/4/2022 7:17am
AH387 wrote:
I'm sure ML can chime in to confirm but I thought that they said Hondas were running it to help bridge the power gap that they...
I'm sure ML can chime in to confirm but I thought that they said Hondas were running it to help bridge the power gap that they felt Star had. The less drag made a pretty significant difference on the Hondas but not as noticeable on the Star bike. But supposedly Nichols still didn't run it because he wanted the power to be smoother. Obviously, the system would help cooling too, since it isn't dependent on RPM but how hot are these 250s getting in a 20min race in January? I was under the assumption that less drag on the motor was the main goal?
This ^^^

If it was just about cooling they would be adding oil coolers and/or radiator fans.
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Moto520
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Moto520 8/4/2022 7:23am
8/4/2022 7:23am
Don't people just add the Boyesen Supercoolor? That's what i've been doing for years and they work great as far as i'm concerned. I think the Supercooler along with getting rid of the "Y" interuption of flow on the hoses is the way to go.
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dancolvin633 8/4/2022 8:08am
8/4/2022 8:08am
Jamie explained on the pod that removing the shaft etc does reduce the drag on the engine resulting in a free feeling engine, and less drag on the motor. The real advantage is the cooling efficiency. The motor stays cooler for much longer which results in little to no power loss throughout the moto. He even said at times the engines ran so cool that they had to turn the fan off on the dyno.
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Falcon 8/4/2022 8:29am
8/4/2022 8:29am
Falcon wrote:
^ I was poking fun at mini dads, but I actually think they are of some value. Any amount of cooling that can be added to...
^ I was poking fun at mini dads, but I actually think they are of some value. Any amount of cooling that can be added to a 250F race motor is beneficial.

EDIT: I was also going to say that it's a logical extension to your product line, Lumpy.
lumpy790 wrote:
Swamped with just making regular radiator hoses with our redesigning the cooling system again 😆
Well, if you ever get tired of working "only" 80 hours a week... you'll know what to do. Grinning



For the group: electrical water pumps also help cooling because they spin at peak RPM at all times, thus flowing more water volume through the radiator. Don't forget that even pros are only wide open some of the time.
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Tumic
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Tumic 8/4/2022 11:11am
8/4/2022 11:11am
Would be interesting to see a dyno run with or without a E pump to see if the drag is noticable on paper or if it’s just a ”feel”.

Have been looking in to put it on a 125, but would be interesting to see if it’s worth it first.
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Falcon 8/4/2022 2:11pm
8/4/2022 2:11pm
^The 125 would need a battery to operate an electric water pump. So unless you are talking about a '23 KTM, the weight disadvantage would probably outweigh (no pun intended) the drag reduction advantage.
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Timo 8/5/2022 11:56am
8/5/2022 11:56am
dancolvin633 wrote:
Jamie explained on the pod that removing the shaft etc does reduce the drag on the engine resulting in a free feeling engine, and less drag...
Jamie explained on the pod that removing the shaft etc does reduce the drag on the engine resulting in a free feeling engine, and less drag on the motor. The real advantage is the cooling efficiency. The motor stays cooler for much longer which results in little to no power loss throughout the moto. He even said at times the engines ran so cool that they had to turn the fan off on the dyno.
The electric pump sounds like it's constant volume, so it's always running full out. Same flow as a bike redlining even when it's idling. This would probably be good for woods riders as well!
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Moto520 8/5/2022 12:03pm
8/5/2022 12:03pm
Moto520 wrote:
Don't people just add the Boyesen Supercoolor? That's what i've been doing for years and they work great as far as i'm concerned. I think the...
Don't people just add the Boyesen Supercoolor? That's what i've been doing for years and they work great as far as i'm concerned. I think the Supercooler along with getting rid of the "Y" interuption of flow on the hoses is the way to go.
Lumpy.....what do you think of the Boyesen Supercoolers along with your hoses??
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LungButter 8/5/2022 1:09pm
8/5/2022 1:09pm
Timo wrote:
The electric pump sounds like it's constant volume, so it's always running full out. Same flow as a bike redlining even when it's idling. This would...
The electric pump sounds like it's constant volume, so it's always running full out. Same flow as a bike redlining even when it's idling. This would probably be good for woods riders as well!
Interesting thought, I have a KTM 500 that is a great trail/woods bike but it definitely gets hot. I have a fan already but it'd be interesting to know if something like this would help even more.
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Tumic 8/5/2022 2:58pm
8/5/2022 2:58pm Edited Date/Time 8/5/2022 3:00pm
Falcon wrote:
^The 125 would need a battery to operate an electric water pump. So unless you are talking about a '23 KTM, the weight disadvantage would probably...
^The 125 would need a battery to operate an electric water pump. So unless you are talking about a '23 KTM, the weight disadvantage would probably outweigh (no pun intended) the drag reduction advantage.
No, i’ll just fit a 50w lightning coil to it and run it on that. Would never fit anything to a bike that depends on a battery to work during the time i ride.

Something like this since it is a cr125 im thinking about using it on

https://www.steahlyoffroad.com/honda-cr-250-89-92-cr-125-90-96-lighting…
lumpy790
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lumpy790 8/5/2022 6:41pm
8/5/2022 6:41pm
Moto520 wrote:
Don't people just add the Boyesen Supercoolor? That's what i've been doing for years and they work great as far as i'm concerned. I think the...
Don't people just add the Boyesen Supercoolor? That's what i've been doing for years and they work great as far as i'm concerned. I think the Supercooler along with getting rid of the "Y" interuption of flow on the hoses is the way to go.
Moto520 wrote:
Lumpy.....what do you think of the Boyesen Supercoolers along with your hoses??
I have never used a Supercooloer myself but have heard good things about them from others. In the past I have toured the Boyesen facility in PA and it is an amazing place.

I do know that the 2017-2020 CRF450R Supercooler may bolt on a 2021-2022 CRF450R but Boyesen does not offer one for the newer designed CRF. Doing that requires a much longer hose than what the 2021-2022 actually use.
OrangeJuice158 8/5/2022 7:27pm
8/5/2022 7:27pm
Timo wrote:
The electric pump sounds like it's constant volume, so it's always running full out. Same flow as a bike redlining even when it's idling. This would...
The electric pump sounds like it's constant volume, so it's always running full out. Same flow as a bike redlining even when it's idling. This would probably be good for woods riders as well!
The vertigo trials bike have electric pumps and they work great for that reason.

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