Dylan Ferrandis: Yamaha's too fast..

B Lenny
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B Lenny
Edited Date/Time 6/12/2021 11:39am
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Tumic
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Tumic 6/12/2021 2:38pm
6/12/2021 2:38pm
We often see 250f laptimes that is faster than 450’s, there is nothing new about 450’s being to fast. 300-350cc would be the perfect happy medium.
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philG
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philG 6/12/2021 3:03pm
6/12/2021 3:03pm
Tumic wrote:
We often see 250f laptimes that is faster than 450’s, there is nothing new about 450’s being to fast. 300-350cc would be the perfect happy medium.
As soon as you restrict the cc, you inflate the $$ .

Its dear enough as it is

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davistld01
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davistld01 6/12/2021 3:33pm
6/12/2021 3:33pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2021 3:34pm
This is far from the first time that the factory teams have actually detuned the stock motor to make the power more usable.
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zehn
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zehn 6/12/2021 4:08pm
6/12/2021 4:08pm
philG wrote:
As soon as you restrict the cc, you inflate the $$ .

Its dear enough as it is

I won’t agree with you on much but you’re dead on here
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GeorgiePorgie 6/12/2021 4:14pm
6/12/2021 4:14pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2021 4:14pm
All in favor for killing off the 450 with a 350. Say Aye.



AYE.
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Mm471
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Mm471 6/12/2021 5:04pm
6/12/2021 5:04pm
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
All in favor for killing off the 450 with a 350. Say Aye.



AYE.
Going to 350s would kill most privateers chances, the factory team would just build a nasty 350 to 450 spec hp. As they are now you can race a stock motor which is good
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resetjet
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resetjet 6/12/2021 5:14pm
6/12/2021 5:14pm
Too much power = the bike riding you.
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LouisianaMotocross 6/12/2021 5:18pm
6/12/2021 5:18pm
Tumic wrote:
We often see 250f laptimes that is faster than 450’s, there is nothing new about 450’s being to fast. 300-350cc would be the perfect happy medium.
philG wrote:
As soon as you restrict the cc, you inflate the $$ .

Its dear enough as it is

Can you explain this? Not disagreeing
blaze 57
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blaze 57 6/12/2021 5:27pm
6/12/2021 5:27pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2021 5:28pm
You don't need to reduce the size of the motor from 450 to 350. Just make it easy to ride. KTM/Husky as done just that right off the showroom floor. I have the KTM 450 its extremely easy to ride and I don't find the power overwhelming or too fast at all. I ride vet classes at 63 yrs old.
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nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 6/12/2021 5:52pm
6/12/2021 5:52pm
It’s almost like we’ve been here before with 500 2 strokes. Oh wait, we have. Except they have killed off the 125 class since then.
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Zachintosh 6/12/2021 6:00pm
6/12/2021 6:00pm
Did the same to my 450, as did virtually everyone I ride with: De-tuning a stock 450 improved ride-ability, safety (for me), and reliability. I’d rather de-tune a 450 than spend a bunch of money to up-tune a 350, which would also decrease reliability.
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Up Wind
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Up Wind 6/12/2021 6:15pm
6/12/2021 6:15pm
Tumic wrote:
We often see 250f laptimes that is faster than 450’s, there is nothing new about 450’s being to fast. 300-350cc would be the perfect happy medium.
philG wrote:
As soon as you restrict the cc, you inflate the $$ .

Its dear enough as it is

LouisianaMotocross wrote:
Can you explain this? Not disagreeing
The top 250 riders are faster than most of the 450 class.
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Dirty Points 6/12/2021 6:22pm
6/12/2021 6:22pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2021 9:04pm
Note that he didn't say the stock bike is too powerful as is being inferred. He said that as a racer he was looking for more and more power, but then the team saw that a configuration that was not necessarily the most powerful was faster for him
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doofus
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doofus 6/12/2021 6:25pm
6/12/2021 6:25pm
He reminds me a lot of Pourcel, for a lot of reasons.

I remember reading that Pourcel always wanted to detune and slow down his husky 450
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yak651
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yak651 6/12/2021 6:28pm
6/12/2021 6:28pm
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
All in favor for killing off the 450 with a 350. Say Aye.



AYE.
Aye!
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B Lenny
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B Lenny 6/12/2021 6:28pm
6/12/2021 6:28pm
philG wrote:
As soon as you restrict the cc, you inflate the $$ .

Its dear enough as it is

Wink
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motoarmageddon 6/12/2021 6:32pm
6/12/2021 6:32pm
There is no such thing as too fast. Riders/mechanics/teams like to say they are detuning their bikes but they are not. What it does is, it leads the competition or guys who have no brains of their own in the wrong direction. Its totally intentional. You really think top pros need slower bikes than vet novices? No. Hey heres an idea, lets all buy Suzukis because they have mellower and less power!
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B Lenny
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B Lenny 6/12/2021 6:35pm
6/12/2021 6:35pm
doofus wrote:
He reminds me a lot of Pourcel, for a lot of reasons. I remember reading that Pourcel always wanted to detune and slow down his husky...
He reminds me a lot of Pourcel, for a lot of reasons.

I remember reading that Pourcel always wanted to detune and slow down his husky 450
I remember Pourcel sayin' he would ride that bike but he wouldn't race it...Dry
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nytsmaC 6/12/2021 6:58pm
6/12/2021 6:58pm
motoarmageddon wrote:
There is no such thing as too fast. Riders/mechanics/teams like to say they are detuning their bikes but they are not. What it does is, it...
There is no such thing as too fast. Riders/mechanics/teams like to say they are detuning their bikes but they are not. What it does is, it leads the competition or guys who have no brains of their own in the wrong direction. Its totally intentional. You really think top pros need slower bikes than vet novices? No. Hey heres an idea, lets all buy Suzukis because they have mellower and less power!
I disagree. The 450’s all make an abundance of power, maybe to the detriment of trying to ride one fast for 35 minutes. I’m sure they could get 70+ HP out of them but would that benefit anyone? They’ve all already implemented traction control to make them more rideable.
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doofus 6/12/2021 7:00pm
6/12/2021 7:00pm
motoarmageddon wrote:
There is no such thing as too fast. Riders/mechanics/teams like to say they are detuning their bikes but they are not. What it does is, it...
There is no such thing as too fast. Riders/mechanics/teams like to say they are detuning their bikes but they are not. What it does is, it leads the competition or guys who have no brains of their own in the wrong direction. Its totally intentional. You really think top pros need slower bikes than vet novices? No. Hey heres an idea, lets all buy Suzukis because they have mellower and less power!
I don’t know man. James seemed to cook everyone on an at the time underpowered 125 and Cairoli won 5 world championships on a 350 against primarily 450’s. Your comment did get me thinking tho
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PNWRider
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PNWRider 6/12/2021 7:07pm
6/12/2021 7:07pm
smashingpumpkins167 wrote:
I bet he's using that excite bike tune on his bike
Only after “Tricky” Ricky Stearns turned a faster lap at the test track
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Leeham
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Leeham 6/12/2021 7:26pm
6/12/2021 7:26pm
Rode a 350 for the first time today. Anyone who says they NEED more power is not fast. If I was to get something other than another YZ250F, it would be a KTM/HUS 350. Those bikes are so good its almost cheating.
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Zycki11 6/12/2021 7:56pm
6/12/2021 7:56pm
Factory bikes are completely different. Special transmissions with longer gears. The bikes they ride have massive power. It is just spread across the entire rpm range. It doesn’t rev out as quick as the stock bikes but it revs out much higher.
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Silas444 6/12/2021 8:18pm
6/12/2021 8:18pm
Why don't we all go to 250Fs, and allow the "open" class guys to use forced induction, i.e. small turbos and superchargers. There's be less weight therefore less rotational mass therefore less severe injuries. And the aftermarket guys would LOVE it. What a great idea....... except in 5 years, we'll all be riding electric bikes and the 250/350/450 arguments will all be moot. Sooooo -

Never mind.

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Bruce372 6/12/2021 8:27pm
6/12/2021 8:27pm
Silas444 wrote:
Why don't we all go to 250Fs, and allow the "open" class guys to use forced induction, i.e. small turbos and superchargers. There's be less weight...
Why don't we all go to 250Fs, and allow the "open" class guys to use forced induction, i.e. small turbos and superchargers. There's be less weight therefore less rotational mass therefore less severe injuries. And the aftermarket guys would LOVE it. What a great idea....... except in 5 years, we'll all be riding electric bikes and the 250/350/450 arguments will all be moot. Sooooo -

Never mind.

It would be cool if they made the top teams only be allowed an alloted number of engines over a season and have to make them last multiple races like in wsbk etc.

Or made them run stock engines maybe? Or restrictors or spec ecu?
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Phil109
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Phil109 6/12/2021 8:52pm
6/12/2021 8:52pm
At one time I thought maybe they should ride smaller bikes. Let the rider push the bikes not the other way around. Lately I’ve found myself liking the grunt of the 450’s and the talent it takes to tame it and go fast. It’s just right as far as I’m concerned. Privateers don’t have to worry about being down on power in that class, plus the engines last longer. I like it.
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CPR
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CPR 6/12/2021 8:57pm
6/12/2021 8:57pm
^^^This^^^

They’re not actually removing peak hp, just making the delivery more mellow and linear. Also torque is a major part of the equation, it’s not all about hp.
Power characteristics are massaged to suit the rider. Think of the difference between Roczen lugging a gear higher through turns vs Barcia bouncing off the limiter. A completely different type of power curve and delivery is required for each rider.
Sounds like Ferrandis liked the feel of a harder hitting ‘more powerful’ engine but a linear ‘detuned’ power curve equaled faster more consistent lap times.
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Titan1
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Titan1 6/12/2021 10:01pm
6/12/2021 10:01pm
Half the people say the 450’s are hard to ride, only a handful of guys in the world can ride them fast, take to much energy, beat you up...the other half say 450’s are so easy to ride anyone can hop on one and go fast, just lug them around the track, jump all the jumps, so easy to go fast on they are dangerous.

So which is it? Easy to ride...or hard to ride?
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jimmie
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jimmie 6/12/2021 10:38pm
6/12/2021 10:38pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2021 10:42pm
Back in the 90's the thought was a 4 stroke motor had to be double the displacement of the 2 stroke in order to be competitive.

Well that "thought" was wrong. Now that we have been enlighten and know the truth what are we going to do about it AMA?

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