Dungey's Latest Setback

Clutchy
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Location
redding, CA US
8/30/2011 12:12pm
That's the way I see it yes. I use to write a column, I liked it, but man I got so tired of the haters emails...
That's the way I see it yes. I use to write a column, I liked it, but man I got so tired of the haters emails, not a lot but a few, telling me I was a shitty mother etc. then other people who were in my articles complaining why did you write that ? cause it happened duh I stopped writing. Not worth it, to be honest clutchy you're lucky you even get articles really the way people act on here alone I'd say fuck you to all of ya (not you just most of the attitudes here). Most journalists and photogs just love this sport that's why they do it, basically for no money, just ask around, they do it for shit pay, but they have a passion for it and for what ?? to have people rip you apart...not my cup of tea period, I'll stick to my job thank you.

S
Thanks Sondy..... I understand what you're saying. And agree to a point.
I grew up racing no cal CMC/AMA as a kid. I've had a passion for bikes and motors as long as I can remember.

And you're one person here I would never disrespect. I'd be a fly on your wall any day.....( just to hear the bench racing stories )... I swear.... hehehehe

With that said.... Do you know why cops wear kevlar vest...? Cause fuckers shoot bullets at them. If you can't stand the heat then... well you know.

We can all agree these guys don't make much cash, so whats to lose..? You can't be a friend and a journalist at the same time. It doesn't make for good journalism.

I think I understand that to be a journalist in this sport, you're fucked. If you tell the truth about what you know or think you know, you're fucked by the industry.

If you don't tell what you know, then you are straight up lying to the people you're writing to. Again you're fucked.

So whats the answer...? IMO its GET THE FUCK OFF THE FENCE. Make up your mind and tell one or the other to fuck off. Either tell the industry " Hey I'm just doing my job " or to the people that read what you've reported " fuck off, I know whats going on but I'm not going to tell you ". Can you still be a journalist without readers....?

Politicians Suck for the very same reason. Always on the fence, acting like they're not..... BULLSHIT.
Nerd
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6155
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Location
US
8/30/2011 12:20pm
Nerd wrote:
Contrived? That's a matter of your preconception, not any sort of reality. Do you really think Honda is going to tell ANYONE what actually broke inside...
Contrived?

That's a matter of your preconception, not any sort of reality.

Do you really think Honda is going to tell ANYONE what actually broke inside the engine? Knowing it's heat-related, and that both bikes had the SAME ISSUE, is kind of a lot for them to admit, wouldn't you say?

You guys are hilarious. Honestly. I'm laughing at the idea of them breaking it down for everyone.

Maybe they should hold a press conference and have a slide presentation detailing the part that broke, what it looked like after it broke, the material it was made out of, the temperature at which failure is expected, the temperature at which it actually failed, what caused the increase in temperature over what is normal, etc., and then send us media guys home with a booklet and CD complete with photos and quotes from the engine builder at the Honda factory team.

Would you guys be satisfied then? Or would you assume they gave us incorrect info simply because they gave it to us?

It's like talking to 9/11 conspiracy theorists on this site. And women. Female 9/11 conspiracy theorists.
Hut wrote:
Obviously they(manufacturer/team) want to keep some things a secret but I'm a fan stuck in bfe and anything the insiders can report is a plus. If...
Obviously they(manufacturer/team) want to keep some things a secret but I'm a fan stuck in bfe and anything the insiders can report is a plus. If you can report something, that is great, if not so be it. I lose interest when the author presents it like that is all I need to know.
It is all you need to know. That's reality. And even further, it's all there is TO know unless you personally look inside each of the engines.

Has anyone else reported what I reported? Or is this just more "same information everyone else has already"?

Woohoo
EastFlorida
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Location
Merritt Island, FL US
8/30/2011 12:22pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2011 12:24pm
That's the way I see it yes. I use to write a column, I liked it, but man I got so tired of the haters emails...
That's the way I see it yes. I use to write a column, I liked it, but man I got so tired of the haters emails, not a lot but a few, telling me I was a shitty mother etc. then other people who were in my articles complaining why did you write that ? cause it happened duh I stopped writing. Not worth it, to be honest clutchy you're lucky you even get articles really the way people act on here alone I'd say fuck you to all of ya (not you just most of the attitudes here). Most journalists and photogs just love this sport that's why they do it, basically for no money, just ask around, they do it for shit pay, but they have a passion for it and for what ?? to have people rip you apart...not my cup of tea period, I'll stick to my job thank you.

S
Clutchy wrote:
Thanks Sondy..... I understand what you're saying. And agree to a point. I grew up racing no cal CMC/AMA as a kid. I've had a passion...
Thanks Sondy..... I understand what you're saying. And agree to a point.
I grew up racing no cal CMC/AMA as a kid. I've had a passion for bikes and motors as long as I can remember.

And you're one person here I would never disrespect. I'd be a fly on your wall any day.....( just to hear the bench racing stories )... I swear.... hehehehe

With that said.... Do you know why cops wear kevlar vest...? Cause fuckers shoot bullets at them. If you can't stand the heat then... well you know.

We can all agree these guys don't make much cash, so whats to lose..? You can't be a friend and a journalist at the same time. It doesn't make for good journalism.

I think I understand that to be a journalist in this sport, you're fucked. If you tell the truth about what you know or think you know, you're fucked by the industry.

If you don't tell what you know, then you are straight up lying to the people you're writing to. Again you're fucked.

So whats the answer...? IMO its GET THE FUCK OFF THE FENCE. Make up your mind and tell one or the other to fuck off. Either tell the industry " Hey I'm just doing my job " or to the people that read what you've reported " fuck off, I know whats going on but I'm not going to tell you ". Can you still be a journalist without readers....?

Politicians Suck for the very same reason. Always on the fence, acting like they're not..... BULLSHIT.
That is why so many people can't stand Jody at MXA. He has a position and isn't afraid to state it.

Why do you think they have been "banned" and lost advertising before.

I don't always agree with Jody or MXA, but I respect the fact they put themselves out their for stating their opinions.

As far as why RD's bike wouldn't run and why JB's and CR's bikes died is important to me. I'm a motorhead as are many riders and we want to know. I also want to know why CR pulled off in the 2nd moto.

The press has a choice to make, tell us what we want to know or not for fear of being "banned'. You can't be friends and be unbiased in your reporting.

Tell what really happened or simply report what the riders and factories want us to know...
Nerd
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Location
US
8/30/2011 12:23pm
brakkeman_ wrote:
Don't hate on Cox, he's paid his dues.Sick
By the way, what I was talking about when I said that (this quote is out of context, but you can go listen to the show again and hear it for yourself) is that I pay over $1k per race to be at the races reporting, whereas the other guy had gone to ONE RACE and lied about all of the rest of them up to that point, thus saving the $1k per race through dishonesty, and I think I'm right in saying if you're going to say you're at the race, pay your dues (the $1k) and actually be there instead of taking the chicken-shit way out and lying to everyone.

Now, knowing the context of that quote, do you still feel the same way about it?

The best part is that you guys kiss his ass just because he's "nice". But in reality he's not that, either, he's just good at making people believe things that aren't true. I have no interest in such a thing.

The Shop

Nerd
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6155
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Location
US
8/30/2011 12:24pm
That's the way I see it yes. I use to write a column, I liked it, but man I got so tired of the haters emails...
That's the way I see it yes. I use to write a column, I liked it, but man I got so tired of the haters emails, not a lot but a few, telling me I was a shitty mother etc. then other people who were in my articles complaining why did you write that ? cause it happened duh I stopped writing. Not worth it, to be honest clutchy you're lucky you even get articles really the way people act on here alone I'd say fuck you to all of ya (not you just most of the attitudes here). Most journalists and photogs just love this sport that's why they do it, basically for no money, just ask around, they do it for shit pay, but they have a passion for it and for what ?? to have people rip you apart...not my cup of tea period, I'll stick to my job thank you.

S
Clutchy wrote:
Thanks Sondy..... I understand what you're saying. And agree to a point. I grew up racing no cal CMC/AMA as a kid. I've had a passion...
Thanks Sondy..... I understand what you're saying. And agree to a point.
I grew up racing no cal CMC/AMA as a kid. I've had a passion for bikes and motors as long as I can remember.

And you're one person here I would never disrespect. I'd be a fly on your wall any day.....( just to hear the bench racing stories )... I swear.... hehehehe

With that said.... Do you know why cops wear kevlar vest...? Cause fuckers shoot bullets at them. If you can't stand the heat then... well you know.

We can all agree these guys don't make much cash, so whats to lose..? You can't be a friend and a journalist at the same time. It doesn't make for good journalism.

I think I understand that to be a journalist in this sport, you're fucked. If you tell the truth about what you know or think you know, you're fucked by the industry.

If you don't tell what you know, then you are straight up lying to the people you're writing to. Again you're fucked.

So whats the answer...? IMO its GET THE FUCK OFF THE FENCE. Make up your mind and tell one or the other to fuck off. Either tell the industry " Hey I'm just doing my job " or to the people that read what you've reported " fuck off, I know whats going on but I'm not going to tell you ". Can you still be a journalist without readers....?

Politicians Suck for the very same reason. Always on the fence, acting like they're not..... BULLSHIT.
That is why so many people can't stand Jody at MXA. He has a position and isn't afraid to state it. Why do you think they...
That is why so many people can't stand Jody at MXA. He has a position and isn't afraid to state it.

Why do you think they have been "banned" and lost advertising before.

I don't always agree with Jody or MXA, but I respect the fact they put themselves out their for stating their opinions.

As far as why RD's bike wouldn't run and why JB's and CR's bikes died is important to me. I'm a motorhead as are many riders and we want to know. I also want to know why CR pulled off in the 2nd moto.

The press has a choice to make, tell us what we want to know or not for fear of being "banned'. You can't be friends and be unbiased in your reporting.

Tell what really happened or simply report what the riders and factories want us to know...
Make up your mind, guys. Is this about stating OPINIONS or stating FACTS?

Also, please tell me how a journalist is supposed to get this information.
EastFlorida
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Merritt Island, FL US
8/30/2011 12:26pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2011 12:27pm
Simply tell us that Honda won't reveal why the bikes died and CR won't say why he pulled off... How is that?

BTW, I like your stuff but would like to get both opinions and facts. If it is an opinion, make it clear - same goes for facts.
Nerd
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Location
US
8/30/2011 12:28pm
That's the way I see it yes. I use to write a column, I liked it, but man I got so tired of the haters emails...
That's the way I see it yes. I use to write a column, I liked it, but man I got so tired of the haters emails, not a lot but a few, telling me I was a shitty mother etc. then other people who were in my articles complaining why did you write that ? cause it happened duh I stopped writing. Not worth it, to be honest clutchy you're lucky you even get articles really the way people act on here alone I'd say fuck you to all of ya (not you just most of the attitudes here). Most journalists and photogs just love this sport that's why they do it, basically for no money, just ask around, they do it for shit pay, but they have a passion for it and for what ?? to have people rip you apart...not my cup of tea period, I'll stick to my job thank you.

S
Clutchy wrote:
Thanks Sondy..... I understand what you're saying. And agree to a point. I grew up racing no cal CMC/AMA as a kid. I've had a passion...
Thanks Sondy..... I understand what you're saying. And agree to a point.
I grew up racing no cal CMC/AMA as a kid. I've had a passion for bikes and motors as long as I can remember.

And you're one person here I would never disrespect. I'd be a fly on your wall any day.....( just to hear the bench racing stories )... I swear.... hehehehe

With that said.... Do you know why cops wear kevlar vest...? Cause fuckers shoot bullets at them. If you can't stand the heat then... well you know.

We can all agree these guys don't make much cash, so whats to lose..? You can't be a friend and a journalist at the same time. It doesn't make for good journalism.

I think I understand that to be a journalist in this sport, you're fucked. If you tell the truth about what you know or think you know, you're fucked by the industry.

If you don't tell what you know, then you are straight up lying to the people you're writing to. Again you're fucked.

So whats the answer...? IMO its GET THE FUCK OFF THE FENCE. Make up your mind and tell one or the other to fuck off. Either tell the industry " Hey I'm just doing my job " or to the people that read what you've reported " fuck off, I know whats going on but I'm not going to tell you ". Can you still be a journalist without readers....?

Politicians Suck for the very same reason. Always on the fence, acting like they're not..... BULLSHIT.
You're also confusing stating opinions vs. stating facts. Politicians sit on fences about their opinions. I don't do that. Never have.

I told the truth about what I know about Dungey leaving Suzuki, and you guys still whine. Do you think Suzuki wants me saying that?

Blink
Sondy132001
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Mission Viejo, CA US
8/30/2011 12:30pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2011 12:30pm
That's the way I see it yes. I use to write a column, I liked it, but man I got so tired of the haters emails...
That's the way I see it yes. I use to write a column, I liked it, but man I got so tired of the haters emails, not a lot but a few, telling me I was a shitty mother etc. then other people who were in my articles complaining why did you write that ? cause it happened duh I stopped writing. Not worth it, to be honest clutchy you're lucky you even get articles really the way people act on here alone I'd say fuck you to all of ya (not you just most of the attitudes here). Most journalists and photogs just love this sport that's why they do it, basically for no money, just ask around, they do it for shit pay, but they have a passion for it and for what ?? to have people rip you apart...not my cup of tea period, I'll stick to my job thank you.

S
Clutchy wrote:
Thanks Sondy..... I understand what you're saying. And agree to a point. I grew up racing no cal CMC/AMA as a kid. I've had a passion...
Thanks Sondy..... I understand what you're saying. And agree to a point.
I grew up racing no cal CMC/AMA as a kid. I've had a passion for bikes and motors as long as I can remember.

And you're one person here I would never disrespect. I'd be a fly on your wall any day.....( just to hear the bench racing stories )... I swear.... hehehehe

With that said.... Do you know why cops wear kevlar vest...? Cause fuckers shoot bullets at them. If you can't stand the heat then... well you know.

We can all agree these guys don't make much cash, so whats to lose..? You can't be a friend and a journalist at the same time. It doesn't make for good journalism.

I think I understand that to be a journalist in this sport, you're fucked. If you tell the truth about what you know or think you know, you're fucked by the industry.

If you don't tell what you know, then you are straight up lying to the people you're writing to. Again you're fucked.

So whats the answer...? IMO its GET THE FUCK OFF THE FENCE. Make up your mind and tell one or the other to fuck off. Either tell the industry " Hey I'm just doing my job " or to the people that read what you've reported " fuck off, I know whats going on but I'm not going to tell you ". Can you still be a journalist without readers....?

Politicians Suck for the very same reason. Always on the fence, acting like they're not..... BULLSHIT.
I'm not saying they're friends, of course yeah they could be, it's a small # of mags and journalists, so you all are trying to get the same story from the same people and not step on toes, cause if they black-ball you (TFS) then where do you go ?? nasa ? walmart ? exxon ? see my point...so you play by the "nice boy" rules Wink

S
Clutchy
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redding, CA US
8/30/2011 12:31pm
Simply tell us that Honda won't reveal why the bikes died and CR won't say why he pulled off... How is that? BTW, I like your...
Simply tell us that Honda won't reveal why the bikes died and CR won't say why he pulled off... How is that?

BTW, I like your stuff but would like to get both opinions and facts. If it is an opinion, make it clear - same goes for facts.
X199
Nerd
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8/30/2011 12:33pm
Simply tell us that Honda won't reveal why the bikes died and CR won't say why he pulled off... How is that? BTW, I like your...
Simply tell us that Honda won't reveal why the bikes died and CR won't say why he pulled off... How is that?

BTW, I like your stuff but would like to get both opinions and facts. If it is an opinion, make it clear - same goes for facts.
I did say that. I said (in an article to be released today online) that Honda was tight-lipped about the issue, but that I managed to find out that it was the same issue, and it was heat-related. That's almost word-for-word.

And on Motocross.com I pointed out they dropped out for the same issue as well.

But here's the bottom line: If I (or anyone else) gives you something like "Both bikes quit because of the same, heat-related issue" you can bet that that's the best information we could get because, again, we can't look inside the engines ourselves. So stating "Honda won't reveal" in many cases is implied regardless.
Clutchy
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redding, CA US
8/30/2011 12:39pm
I'm not saying they're friends, of course yeah they could be, it's a small # of mags and journalists, so you all are trying to get...
I'm not saying they're friends, of course yeah they could be, it's a small # of mags and journalists, so you all are trying to get the same story from the same people and not step on toes, cause if they black-ball you (TFS) then where do you go ?? nasa ? walmart ? exxon ? see my point...so you play by the "nice boy" rules Wink

S
Can they black ball everyone....... and isn't that a story in itself...?

Now that's some bad PR.................................

As far as working somewhere else goes. If they don't make much money isn't that something they should be looking at anyways.....?
EastFlorida
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Merritt Island, FL US
8/30/2011 12:39pm
Simply make it clear when it is an opinion or a fact.

Don't rely on us to interpret an implied meaning.

Don't make us "read between the lines" and allow us to reach 100+ inaccurate conclusions...

That's what starts 1/2 the arguments on here, trying to interpret what is really being said or implied...
Sondy132001
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8/30/2011 12:40pm
Clutchy wrote:
Can they black ball everyone....... and isn't that a story in itself...? Now that's some bad PR................................. As far as working somewhere else goes. If they...
Can they black ball everyone....... and isn't that a story in itself...?

Now that's some bad PR.................................

As far as working somewhere else goes. If they don't make much money isn't that something they should be looking at anyways.....?
hahah if my walls could talk Wink xoxo

S
ridge
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Apple Valley, CA US
8/30/2011 12:50pm
hahah if my walls could talk Wink xoxo

S
It'd be better if they could film.

Smile
Clutchy
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8/30/2011 12:53pm
hahah if my walls could talk Wink xoxo

S
As I said.... I'd be a fly on your wall....lol. or spider
Nerd
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8/30/2011 12:57pm
Simply make it clear when it is an opinion or a fact. Don't rely on us to interpret an implied meaning. Don't make us "read between...
Simply make it clear when it is an opinion or a fact.

Don't rely on us to interpret an implied meaning.

Don't make us "read between the lines" and allow us to reach 100+ inaccurate conclusions...

That's what starts 1/2 the arguments on here, trying to interpret what is really being said or implied...
The inaccurate conclusions here are based nearly completely on not reading the material presented properly, and/or reading between the lines by the people posting here.

I couldn't be clearer the majority of the time. If people get it wrong, it's on them.

Have I failed to be clear in this thread so far?
Titan1
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Lehi, UT US
8/30/2011 12:58pm
Titan1 wrote:
Cox, for what its worth, my comments way back on the first page (or second page...wherever) were more a result of my frustration with the "tight...
Cox, for what its worth, my comments way back on the first page (or second page...wherever) were more a result of my frustration with the "tight lipped" nature of this industry than with your article.

I just get frustrated with the complete lack of any REAL info (like stuff we fans can't figure out on our own from watching the races and discussing the series/races with our buddies) from the moto journalists in this industry (which is apparently the fault of the teams because they'll blacklist any journalists that says something they don't like).

Your piece was well written, and made good points..but, like seeminly every piece of moto journalism out there, didn't really tell us anything "new".

Frikkin' Lebron James gets a hang nail on his pinky and misses a shoot around in the off season and it's front page news....A title contender, factory rider and the defending champions bike won't start and a moto starts without him, and there isn't a peep about what was wrong with the bike! WTF? The "tight lipped" nature of this industry is small time and backwoods. If the industry wants to go mainstream they need to start acting like a mainstream sport.
Nerd wrote:
Those sports have actual RULES that say that injuries must be disclosed to the media, as well as to the other team obviously. Same with salaries...
Those sports have actual RULES that say that injuries must be disclosed to the media, as well as to the other team obviously. Same with salaries and those sorts of things. Our sport has no such rules. And without those rules, I doubt you'd get any of that stuff from those sports, either.
As I said, if mx/sx want to be a mainstream (or more mainstream) they need to start acting like a mainstream sport....maybe they need those kinds of rules.

It's just my opinion, of which I'm painfully aware of how worthless and insignificant it is.
Titan1
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8/30/2011 1:04pm
Titan1 wrote:
Cox, for what its worth, my comments way back on the first page (or second page...wherever) were more a result of my frustration with the "tight...
Cox, for what its worth, my comments way back on the first page (or second page...wherever) were more a result of my frustration with the "tight lipped" nature of this industry than with your article.

I just get frustrated with the complete lack of any REAL info (like stuff we fans can't figure out on our own from watching the races and discussing the series/races with our buddies) from the moto journalists in this industry (which is apparently the fault of the teams because they'll blacklist any journalists that says something they don't like).

Your piece was well written, and made good points..but, like seeminly every piece of moto journalism out there, didn't really tell us anything "new".

Frikkin' Lebron James gets a hang nail on his pinky and misses a shoot around in the off season and it's front page news....A title contender, factory rider and the defending champions bike won't start and a moto starts without him, and there isn't a peep about what was wrong with the bike! WTF? The "tight lipped" nature of this industry is small time and backwoods. If the industry wants to go mainstream they need to start acting like a mainstream sport.
This is just my opinion but you can't compare the two groups, in basketball there's 100's of magazines and reporters, plus the newspapers, blogs etc. In...
This is just my opinion but you can't compare the two groups, in basketball there's 100's of magazines and reporters, plus the newspapers, blogs etc. In MX there's like 10, it's a much more tight knit group, your friends with most of them, talk shit or discuss things that were told to you in private ? you're done. Just an example, when I worked for MC he would tell me things in private, even before and after working for him he would tell me things, it use to upset my stomach, it's hard to keep things inside like that, so I told him to stop telling me things (moto related) cause I couldn't tell anyone and it was exciting news to tell, but if I leaked I was a bad friend. LeBron may never meet the reporter in Iowa who talks about him, but in moto you see those people every weekend at the ONE race that's happening in that sport. Just my 2 cents.

S
I appreciate your opinion, and you make a valid point.

the only thing I could possibly say to that, is that if they are "journalists" then don't they have some sort of duty report "the truth" as they know it? Their "ethical' duty as a journalist is to dig for the truth and report it.

If the riders/teams don't want anything to get out, then they shouldn't tell ANYONE. If they tell someone, then THEY are the source of the leak, not their friend they told.

But I guess it all depends on the informatin...if Suzuki is bringing in a HUGE new sponsor, getting that leaked would be different that leaking the news about Dungey getting a DUI or something.

Anyway, my point is that if Riders want to have journalists in their inner circle then they need to be careful about leaking any info to them.

Of course, maybe the moto journalists aren't even journalists at all...maybe my standards are too high??? Maybe they are just "bloggers" and thus shouldn't be held to the high standard that true journalists should be held too (and if that's true, moto needs a true journalists).
Nerd
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8/30/2011 1:05pm
Titan1 wrote:
Cox, for what its worth, my comments way back on the first page (or second page...wherever) were more a result of my frustration with the "tight...
Cox, for what its worth, my comments way back on the first page (or second page...wherever) were more a result of my frustration with the "tight lipped" nature of this industry than with your article.

I just get frustrated with the complete lack of any REAL info (like stuff we fans can't figure out on our own from watching the races and discussing the series/races with our buddies) from the moto journalists in this industry (which is apparently the fault of the teams because they'll blacklist any journalists that says something they don't like).

Your piece was well written, and made good points..but, like seeminly every piece of moto journalism out there, didn't really tell us anything "new".

Frikkin' Lebron James gets a hang nail on his pinky and misses a shoot around in the off season and it's front page news....A title contender, factory rider and the defending champions bike won't start and a moto starts without him, and there isn't a peep about what was wrong with the bike! WTF? The "tight lipped" nature of this industry is small time and backwoods. If the industry wants to go mainstream they need to start acting like a mainstream sport.
Nerd wrote:
Those sports have actual RULES that say that injuries must be disclosed to the media, as well as to the other team obviously. Same with salaries...
Those sports have actual RULES that say that injuries must be disclosed to the media, as well as to the other team obviously. Same with salaries and those sorts of things. Our sport has no such rules. And without those rules, I doubt you'd get any of that stuff from those sports, either.
Titan1 wrote:
As I said, if mx/sx want to be a mainstream (or more mainstream) they need to start acting like a mainstream sport....maybe they need those kinds...
As I said, if mx/sx want to be a mainstream (or more mainstream) they need to start acting like a mainstream sport....maybe they need those kinds of rules.

It's just my opinion, of which I'm painfully aware of how worthless and insignificant it is.
Yes, of course your opinion is insignificant. So is mine when it comes to this. But I agree wholeheartedly and have said so in various editorials in various magazines, newspapers and websites for years.

I think that if the mainstream sports world knew how much these racers really make, that would be awesome for the sport in general. They'd take us more seriously. And the same can be said for knowing what injuries these guys race with (and don't race with).

I don't know how that could be done, though, because contracts are with the teams and the teams have no such contracts with the racing series.
Clutchy
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redding, CA US
8/30/2011 1:09pm
No offense ment Steve............ The riders are the heart and soul. Unfortunately the sport is missing a BRAIN.
8/30/2011 1:09pm
And people wonder why teams like to hold things close to the vest.....
flarider
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8/30/2011 1:11pm
Titan1 wrote:
Cox, for what its worth, my comments way back on the first page (or second page...wherever) were more a result of my frustration with the "tight...
Cox, for what its worth, my comments way back on the first page (or second page...wherever) were more a result of my frustration with the "tight lipped" nature of this industry than with your article.

I just get frustrated with the complete lack of any REAL info (like stuff we fans can't figure out on our own from watching the races and discussing the series/races with our buddies) from the moto journalists in this industry (which is apparently the fault of the teams because they'll blacklist any journalists that says something they don't like).

Your piece was well written, and made good points..but, like seeminly every piece of moto journalism out there, didn't really tell us anything "new".

Frikkin' Lebron James gets a hang nail on his pinky and misses a shoot around in the off season and it's front page news....A title contender, factory rider and the defending champions bike won't start and a moto starts without him, and there isn't a peep about what was wrong with the bike! WTF? The "tight lipped" nature of this industry is small time and backwoods. If the industry wants to go mainstream they need to start acting like a mainstream sport.
Nerd wrote:
Those sports have actual RULES that say that injuries must be disclosed to the media, as well as to the other team obviously. Same with salaries...
Those sports have actual RULES that say that injuries must be disclosed to the media, as well as to the other team obviously. Same with salaries and those sorts of things. Our sport has no such rules. And without those rules, I doubt you'd get any of that stuff from those sports, either.
Titan1 wrote:
As I said, if mx/sx want to be a mainstream (or more mainstream) they need to start acting like a mainstream sport....maybe they need those kinds...
As I said, if mx/sx want to be a mainstream (or more mainstream) they need to start acting like a mainstream sport....maybe they need those kinds of rules.

It's just my opinion, of which I'm painfully aware of how worthless and insignificant it is.
Gambling

Stick and ball sports have those rules because of gambling. They realize how much greater their audience is because of gambling. NASCAR has disclosure rules in place as well, because of gambling. They won't come right and say that's why, but it is why. People betting on sports is a multi-billion dollar industry and increases TV viewership significantly, because now the fan actually has some skin in the game and you can't make it fair and get it on the boards in Las Vegas, unless there's full disclosure

Otherwise, why bother disclosing your bike's weakness or your own injury? What's to gain?
Nerd
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US
8/30/2011 1:16pm
Nerd wrote:
Those sports have actual RULES that say that injuries must be disclosed to the media, as well as to the other team obviously. Same with salaries...
Those sports have actual RULES that say that injuries must be disclosed to the media, as well as to the other team obviously. Same with salaries and those sorts of things. Our sport has no such rules. And without those rules, I doubt you'd get any of that stuff from those sports, either.
Titan1 wrote:
As I said, if mx/sx want to be a mainstream (or more mainstream) they need to start acting like a mainstream sport....maybe they need those kinds...
As I said, if mx/sx want to be a mainstream (or more mainstream) they need to start acting like a mainstream sport....maybe they need those kinds of rules.

It's just my opinion, of which I'm painfully aware of how worthless and insignificant it is.
flarider wrote:
Gambling Stick and ball sports have those rules because of gambling. They realize how much greater their audience is because of gambling. NASCAR has disclosure rules...
Gambling

Stick and ball sports have those rules because of gambling. They realize how much greater their audience is because of gambling. NASCAR has disclosure rules in place as well, because of gambling. They won't come right and say that's why, but it is why. People betting on sports is a multi-billion dollar industry and increases TV viewership significantly, because now the fan actually has some skin in the game and you can't make it fair and get it on the boards in Las Vegas, unless there's full disclosure

Otherwise, why bother disclosing your bike's weakness or your own injury? What's to gain?
That's actually a great point that I hadn't thought of, but you're completely right.
Nerd
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8/30/2011 1:19pm
Titan1 wrote:
Cox, for what its worth, my comments way back on the first page (or second page...wherever) were more a result of my frustration with the "tight...
Cox, for what its worth, my comments way back on the first page (or second page...wherever) were more a result of my frustration with the "tight lipped" nature of this industry than with your article.

I just get frustrated with the complete lack of any REAL info (like stuff we fans can't figure out on our own from watching the races and discussing the series/races with our buddies) from the moto journalists in this industry (which is apparently the fault of the teams because they'll blacklist any journalists that says something they don't like).

Your piece was well written, and made good points..but, like seeminly every piece of moto journalism out there, didn't really tell us anything "new".

Frikkin' Lebron James gets a hang nail on his pinky and misses a shoot around in the off season and it's front page news....A title contender, factory rider and the defending champions bike won't start and a moto starts without him, and there isn't a peep about what was wrong with the bike! WTF? The "tight lipped" nature of this industry is small time and backwoods. If the industry wants to go mainstream they need to start acting like a mainstream sport.
This is just my opinion but you can't compare the two groups, in basketball there's 100's of magazines and reporters, plus the newspapers, blogs etc. In...
This is just my opinion but you can't compare the two groups, in basketball there's 100's of magazines and reporters, plus the newspapers, blogs etc. In MX there's like 10, it's a much more tight knit group, your friends with most of them, talk shit or discuss things that were told to you in private ? you're done. Just an example, when I worked for MC he would tell me things in private, even before and after working for him he would tell me things, it use to upset my stomach, it's hard to keep things inside like that, so I told him to stop telling me things (moto related) cause I couldn't tell anyone and it was exciting news to tell, but if I leaked I was a bad friend. LeBron may never meet the reporter in Iowa who talks about him, but in moto you see those people every weekend at the ONE race that's happening in that sport. Just my 2 cents.

S
Titan1 wrote:
I appreciate your opinion, and you make a valid point. the only thing I could possibly say to that, is that if they are "journalists" then...
I appreciate your opinion, and you make a valid point.

the only thing I could possibly say to that, is that if they are "journalists" then don't they have some sort of duty report "the truth" as they know it? Their "ethical' duty as a journalist is to dig for the truth and report it.

If the riders/teams don't want anything to get out, then they shouldn't tell ANYONE. If they tell someone, then THEY are the source of the leak, not their friend they told.

But I guess it all depends on the informatin...if Suzuki is bringing in a HUGE new sponsor, getting that leaked would be different that leaking the news about Dungey getting a DUI or something.

Anyway, my point is that if Riders want to have journalists in their inner circle then they need to be careful about leaking any info to them.

Of course, maybe the moto journalists aren't even journalists at all...maybe my standards are too high??? Maybe they are just "bloggers" and thus shouldn't be held to the high standard that true journalists should be held too (and if that's true, moto needs a true journalists).
No one has told me how I'm supposed to get information about what broke on the inside of an engine without someone on the team or close to the team telling me what it is.

No answers?

And by the way, I did report something according to an unnamed source, and people then tell me I have to name the source or else it's "just speculation" or whatever.

Like I said, discussing these things with you guys is like discussing them with a woman who thinks we didn't land on the moon...
Sondy132001
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4045
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Location
Mission Viejo, CA US
8/30/2011 1:20pm Edited Date/Time 8/30/2011 1:22pm
Nerd wrote:
Those sports have actual RULES that say that injuries must be disclosed to the media, as well as to the other team obviously. Same with salaries...
Those sports have actual RULES that say that injuries must be disclosed to the media, as well as to the other team obviously. Same with salaries and those sorts of things. Our sport has no such rules. And without those rules, I doubt you'd get any of that stuff from those sports, either.
Titan1 wrote:
As I said, if mx/sx want to be a mainstream (or more mainstream) they need to start acting like a mainstream sport....maybe they need those kinds...
As I said, if mx/sx want to be a mainstream (or more mainstream) they need to start acting like a mainstream sport....maybe they need those kinds of rules.

It's just my opinion, of which I'm painfully aware of how worthless and insignificant it is.
flarider wrote:
Gambling Stick and ball sports have those rules because of gambling. They realize how much greater their audience is because of gambling. NASCAR has disclosure rules...
Gambling

Stick and ball sports have those rules because of gambling. They realize how much greater their audience is because of gambling. NASCAR has disclosure rules in place as well, because of gambling. They won't come right and say that's why, but it is why. People betting on sports is a multi-billion dollar industry and increases TV viewership significantly, because now the fan actually has some skin in the game and you can't make it fair and get it on the boards in Las Vegas, unless there's full disclosure

Otherwise, why bother disclosing your bike's weakness or your own injury? What's to gain?
I was waiting for you to post that, it makes all the sense in the world and as soon as Cox posted those teams/sports have rules, the first thing that logically came to my mind was gambling, they have to tell you everything because people place bets on those sports, MX and SX they don't, unless the race is/was at the MGM, which I made some good money on Fro one year lol

S
Titan1
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8592
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Location
Lehi, UT US
8/30/2011 1:21pm
Titan1 wrote:
As I said, if mx/sx want to be a mainstream (or more mainstream) they need to start acting like a mainstream sport....maybe they need those kinds...
As I said, if mx/sx want to be a mainstream (or more mainstream) they need to start acting like a mainstream sport....maybe they need those kinds of rules.

It's just my opinion, of which I'm painfully aware of how worthless and insignificant it is.
flarider wrote:
Gambling Stick and ball sports have those rules because of gambling. They realize how much greater their audience is because of gambling. NASCAR has disclosure rules...
Gambling

Stick and ball sports have those rules because of gambling. They realize how much greater their audience is because of gambling. NASCAR has disclosure rules in place as well, because of gambling. They won't come right and say that's why, but it is why. People betting on sports is a multi-billion dollar industry and increases TV viewership significantly, because now the fan actually has some skin in the game and you can't make it fair and get it on the boards in Las Vegas, unless there's full disclosure

Otherwise, why bother disclosing your bike's weakness or your own injury? What's to gain?
Nerd wrote:
That's actually a great point that I hadn't thought of, but you're completely right.
Yup. Good point Flarider.

I not a gambler and have no clue about this stuff, so an honest question....wasn't there some type of gambling on the US Open? I thought I saw odds on each rider for that race....but of course, if could have just been the odds.
Titan1
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8592
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Location
Lehi, UT US
8/30/2011 1:26pm
This is just my opinion but you can't compare the two groups, in basketball there's 100's of magazines and reporters, plus the newspapers, blogs etc. In...
This is just my opinion but you can't compare the two groups, in basketball there's 100's of magazines and reporters, plus the newspapers, blogs etc. In MX there's like 10, it's a much more tight knit group, your friends with most of them, talk shit or discuss things that were told to you in private ? you're done. Just an example, when I worked for MC he would tell me things in private, even before and after working for him he would tell me things, it use to upset my stomach, it's hard to keep things inside like that, so I told him to stop telling me things (moto related) cause I couldn't tell anyone and it was exciting news to tell, but if I leaked I was a bad friend. LeBron may never meet the reporter in Iowa who talks about him, but in moto you see those people every weekend at the ONE race that's happening in that sport. Just my 2 cents.

S
Titan1 wrote:
I appreciate your opinion, and you make a valid point. the only thing I could possibly say to that, is that if they are "journalists" then...
I appreciate your opinion, and you make a valid point.

the only thing I could possibly say to that, is that if they are "journalists" then don't they have some sort of duty report "the truth" as they know it? Their "ethical' duty as a journalist is to dig for the truth and report it.

If the riders/teams don't want anything to get out, then they shouldn't tell ANYONE. If they tell someone, then THEY are the source of the leak, not their friend they told.

But I guess it all depends on the informatin...if Suzuki is bringing in a HUGE new sponsor, getting that leaked would be different that leaking the news about Dungey getting a DUI or something.

Anyway, my point is that if Riders want to have journalists in their inner circle then they need to be careful about leaking any info to them.

Of course, maybe the moto journalists aren't even journalists at all...maybe my standards are too high??? Maybe they are just "bloggers" and thus shouldn't be held to the high standard that true journalists should be held too (and if that's true, moto needs a true journalists).
Nerd wrote:
No one has told me how I'm supposed to get information about what broke on the inside of an engine without someone on the team or...
No one has told me how I'm supposed to get information about what broke on the inside of an engine without someone on the team or close to the team telling me what it is.

No answers?

And by the way, I did report something according to an unnamed source, and people then tell me I have to name the source or else it's "just speculation" or whatever.

Like I said, discussing these things with you guys is like discussing them with a woman who thinks we didn't land on the moon...
I think part of the problem is that a story is "broke" or written, and then you care enough to defend it on a message board and/or care what the message board pundits have to say about your story.

Post your story, and leave it be.

Then you won't know-won't care-about all the no nothing message boarders saying it's "just speculation". Which brings up another of my long made points, in that the industry (from the riders and teams, to the journalists) are far to concerned/connected with the message boards. In my opinion the "industry" should do their thing, and let the message boards do theirs...message boards are incredibly insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
lucero10x
Posts
1626
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Location
Las Vegas, NV US
8/30/2011 1:28pm
Titan1 wrote:
I think part of the problem is that a story is "broke" or written, and then you care enough to defend it on a message board...
I think part of the problem is that a story is "broke" or written, and then you care enough to defend it on a message board and/or care what the message board pundits have to say about your story.

Post your story, and leave it be.

Then you won't know-won't care-about all the no nothing message boarders saying it's "just speculation". Which brings up another of my long made points, in that the industry (from the riders and teams, to the journalists) are far to concerned/connected with the message boards. In my opinion the "industry" should do their thing, and let the message boards do theirs...message boards are incredibly insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Dude, if you haven't noticed he does NOT have that ability. lol.
flarider
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Daytona Beach, FL US
8/30/2011 1:31pm
Titan1 wrote:
Yup. Good point Flarider. I not a gambler and have no clue about this stuff, so an honest question....wasn't there some type of gambling on the...
Yup. Good point Flarider.

I not a gambler and have no clue about this stuff, so an honest question....wasn't there some type of gambling on the US Open? I thought I saw odds on each rider for that race....but of course, if could have just been the odds.
Yes, and only the US Open and only at MGM Grand, where the race took place
Sondy132001
Posts
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Mission Viejo, CA US
8/30/2011 1:37pm
Titan1 wrote:
Yup. Good point Flarider. I not a gambler and have no clue about this stuff, so an honest question....wasn't there some type of gambling on the...
Yup. Good point Flarider.

I not a gambler and have no clue about this stuff, so an honest question....wasn't there some type of gambling on the US Open? I thought I saw odds on each rider for that race....but of course, if could have just been the odds.
flarider wrote:
Yes, and only the US Open and only at MGM Grand, where the race took place
I don't gamble, least with money lol but I did that year Emig raced and I made $800 bucks I was stoked !

S

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