Dungey under the bike vs outside help

TommyZ
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7/7/2013 1:30pm Edited Date/Time 7/8/2013 5:38pm
Can someone explain how the "outside help" rule works? In moto #1 he went out of his way to avoid help while trying to start his bike. In moto he got help having the bike pulled off of him and nobody mentioned outside help.
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dantheman
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7/7/2013 1:34pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2013 1:35pm
Does it really matter? He was pinned under, EXHUAST side down with the rear tire SPINNING! YES, help the guy out, whoever you are! And, whoever they(riders - James, RV, Alessi, Mookie etc etc) would be!
malachi177
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7/7/2013 1:37pm
dantheman wrote:
Does it really matter? He was pinned under, EXHUAST side down with the rear tire SPINNING! YES, help the guy out, whoever you are! And, whoever...
Does it really matter? He was pinned under, EXHUAST side down with the rear tire SPINNING! YES, help the guy out, whoever you are! And, whoever they(riders - James, RV, Alessi, Mookie etc etc) would be!
x2!!
TommyZ
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7/7/2013 1:44pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2013 1:44pm
I agree that he needed help and should have been helped. But the question was trying to understand how it is decided when the rule does or does not come into play. Is it something like, "Outside help is permitted if the rider is in danger?". That would sure make sense to me.
dantheman
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7/7/2013 1:51pm
I could see questioning the "rule" if you saw something that warranted the questioning. For example: If in the first moto the Dunge after the stall had like multiple "outside" assistants actually help help fire up his KaToom by push starting it down the hill and then he rejoined the race well, yeah... we need to know what the deal is with the rule.

But from your first post not really much needs understanding except get his bike off of him ASAP.

The Shop

GuyB
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7/7/2013 1:53pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2013 1:54pm
TommyZ wrote:
Can someone explain how the "outside help" rule works? In moto #1 he went out of his way to avoid help while trying to start his...
Can someone explain how the "outside help" rule works? In moto #1 he went out of his way to avoid help while trying to start his bike. In moto he got help having the bike pulled off of him and nobody mentioned outside help.
I think common sense should rule. Safety (being stuck under the bike in the middle of the track with hot exhaust and facing a spinning rear wheel and chain) trumps any complaints of outside assistance.
GuyB
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7/7/2013 1:57pm


I'm guilty of it. This one was from a couple years ago when Justin was hopelessly stuck under his bike.
IWreckALot
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7/7/2013 1:58pm
That was a rough day for Dungey. I hate seeing the bike issues cause DNF's. The tip over was on him except the fact that the bike setup didn't seem like it was working all day. That's a Dungey and TEAM thing. He seemed to have a IDGAF attitude that second MOTO. Needs to have that for the rest of the season.
The Rock
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7/7/2013 2:01pm
GuyB wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/07/07/26340/s1200_BD2H8188.jpg[/img] I'm guilty of it. This one was from a couple years ago when Justin was hopelessly stuck under his bike.


I'm guilty of it. This one was from a couple years ago when Justin was hopelessly stuck under his bike.
Good stuff GuyB!

BTW nice looking at a MX shot that doesn't include yellow Acerbis markers.
Outsider
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7/7/2013 2:05pm
GuyB wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/07/07/26340/s1200_BD2H8188.jpg[/img] I'm guilty of it. This one was from a couple years ago when Justin was hopelessly stuck under his bike.


I'm guilty of it. This one was from a couple years ago when Justin was hopelessly stuck under his bike.
OT: Was that you getting the golden showers on the broadcast?
GuyB
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7/7/2013 2:22pm
Outsider wrote:
OT: Was that you getting the golden showers on the broadcast?
Dunno. I haven't seen the race on TV. Golden showers? What broadcast were you watching?
jeffro503
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7/7/2013 2:24pm
The rule is and always has been....."if the rider is in danger.....help him". Helping him start a bike is a no-no.....but if he's pinned under the thing....for Christs sake , help the poor dude!
Outsider
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7/7/2013 2:25pm
GuyB wrote:
Dunno. I haven't seen the race on TV. Golden showers? What broadcast were you watching?
Redtube? Shocked

No, a photog, looked like you got hosed with champagne... forget which class. Smile
Wandell
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7/7/2013 2:32pm
Right. Dungey was in physical danger. Hot exhaust, spinning chain and sprockets, spinning tire.... Man, that could have been really, really ugly. I wanted to jump through the TV screen when I saw him franticly waving for someone to come help him!
PTECH
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7/7/2013 2:41pm
Yeah I really don't get the "no outside assistance" rule. Can someone post what it says in the actual rule book? No doubt someone should help the rider if he is pinned under the bike in a dangerous situation but I didn't think you could continue the race after you got outside assistance.
GuyB
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7/7/2013 2:51pm
GuyB wrote:
Dunno. I haven't seen the race on TV. Golden showers? What broadcast were you watching?
Outsider wrote:
Redtube? Shocked

No, a photog, looked like you got hosed with champagne... forget which class. Smile
Not me. Cameras don't like champagne.
burn1986
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7/7/2013 2:54pm
Obviously when it's a safety issue.
activeMX
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7/7/2013 3:02pm
Obviously a safety issue when your pinned under a bike like that. Help is certainly needed and allowed.

The funny thing to me was Dean Baker from JGR being the one to help. Not that he shouldn't have or anything but just good to see he was so quick to help a competitor.
moto726
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7/7/2013 3:09pm
I thought the whole outside help thing applied to getting your bike started...as in no one but the rider can help re start the bike... Guess I was wrong

This is what the rule book says:

k. Outside assistance to a rider on the course is forbidden except when the assistance is given by flag marshals or officials placed by the Race Director for the purpose of control and safety, with the following exceptions:
i. Assistance by crew members is permitted during practice.
ii. Assistance by crew members is permitted from the starting gate up through the Holeshot Line following the start of a moto race on the first lap only.
GoonSquad250x
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7/7/2013 3:23pm
Holeshot line huh? I guess thats why you always see all the team guys standing out there by the 1st turn to pick up their riders once everybody wads in the 1st turn. After that though, no help unless its a safety issue. And Dunge needed help ASAP. He was under that hot, heavy bike with everything spinning! Nobodies going to question that.
Paw Paw 271
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7/7/2013 3:32pm
Ok, just my take.....When he went down in the first moto he did not get outside help.
In the second moto he did not get outside help when the bike was lifted off him, but I did see outside help when another person was pushing the starter button on the bike and that person was not RD. That was outside assistance and he should have been under review for it.
GoonSquad250x
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7/7/2013 3:37pm
Ok, just my take.....When he went down in the first moto he did not get outside help. In the second moto he did not get outside...
Ok, just my take.....When he went down in the first moto he did not get outside help.
In the second moto he did not get outside help when the bike was lifted off him, but I did see outside help when another person was pushing the starter button on the bike and that person was not RD. That was outside assistance and he should have been under review for it.
He didnt continue Moto one after that so there's no reason the review it. The bike was dead, he was already done for the moto.
7/7/2013 3:41pm
Outside help is outside help period. It should be the same rules for dungey as it would be the guy riding around in 40th place. But of course they won't do anything to him because he's a top guy.
jonjon714
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7/7/2013 3:45pm
Outside help is outside help period. It should be the same rules for dungey as it would be the guy riding around in 40th place. But...
Outside help is outside help period. It should be the same rules for dungey as it would be the guy riding around in 40th place. But of course they won't do anything to him because he's a top guy.
activeMX
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7/7/2013 3:49pm
Outside help is outside help period. It should be the same rules for dungey as it would be the guy riding around in 40th place. But...
Outside help is outside help period. It should be the same rules for dungey as it would be the guy riding around in 40th place. But of course they won't do anything to him because he's a top guy.
Dude, they wouldn't do anything to a guy in 40th who went down and had a fan restart the bike for him to continue the race. So the fact is Dungey got no different treatment.
frita
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7/7/2013 3:50pm
You can only get help from official track workers or flaggers (or other riders in Will Hahn's case last year). It makes sense, the factory teams have guys spotted all around the track and would have yet another advantage over everyone else.

Throwback to last year

https://youtu.be/Hvojm8YKJsU
DownSouth
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7/7/2013 3:53pm
Outside help is outside help period. It should be the same rules for dungey as it would be the guy riding around in 40th place. But...
Outside help is outside help period. It should be the same rules for dungey as it would be the guy riding around in 40th place. But of course they won't do anything to him because he's a top guy.
I totally agree with you. They should have left Dungey stuck under his bike under until he hulked up and bench pressed it right off his chest. Dizzy
500guy
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7/7/2013 3:53pm
I am amazed at how many people don't know the rules.

Track workers are not only allowed but part of their job is to assist in situations like this, No not push starting or helping but clearing the track of a hazard or helping a rider pinned down.

Not to mention when a rider is pinned, Fuck the rules
GoonSquad250x
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7/7/2013 3:59pm
500guy wrote:
I am amazed at how many people don't know the rules. Track workers are not only allowed but part of their job is to assist in...
I am amazed at how many people don't know the rules.

Track workers are not only allowed but part of their job is to assist in situations like this, No not push starting or helping but clearing the track of a hazard or helping a rider pinned down.

Not to mention when a rider is pinned, Fuck the rules
Probably because most of us here aren't pros and don't race nationals. Just a hunch though Blush

But I hear ya, when something like that happens, rules go out the window!
7/7/2013 4:05pm
GuyB wrote:
I think common sense should rule. Safety (being stuck under the bike in the middle of the track with hot exhaust and facing a spinning rear...
I think common sense should rule. Safety (being stuck under the bike in the middle of the track with hot exhaust and facing a spinning rear wheel and chain) trumps any complaints of outside assistance.
Common sense should rule...

...this is the AMA we are talking about though...

:-)
7/7/2013 4:07pm
Outside help is outside help period. It should be the same rules for dungey as it would be the guy riding around in 40th place. But...
Outside help is outside help period. It should be the same rules for dungey as it would be the guy riding around in 40th place. But of course they won't do anything to him because he's a top guy.
You're an idiot with that statement.

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