I would submit that if you took an average of every lap of every moto dungey has entered as a pro, he is the fastest rider...
I would submit that if you took an average of every lap of every moto dungey has entered as a pro, he is the fastest rider ever. You would need to include a base time for laps in in moto's where riders DNF or DNS. (maybe give them the slowest time of the day for those laps.) I would think he has the highest moto completion percentage and did that while running with the elite times of the classes he entered. He doesn't have the 'fastest lap' but I bet he has the fastest motos. Thoughts
Carmichael dude. Come on.
If nothing else, he won the most, which means almost definitely he has the lowest average times, he also basically never fucked up, and when he did, always did amazing damage control going batshit fast to fix it.
Think Tomac proved who was fastest, as far as "Ever"? I would put Magoo, Johnson, Gary Jones, Bob Hannah, Danny Laporte and Ron Lechien right there...
Think Tomac proved who was fastest, as far as "Ever"? I would put Magoo, Johnson, Gary Jones, Bob Hannah, Danny Laporte and Ron Lechien right there with Tomac. (Couple I missed for sure)
Now a common denominator with those fastest guys is? you got it...always banged up.
Now most consistent? Ya put Dunge right up there but I rather see guys race WFO than cruising and if you take that "Poll" as another thread stated. I bet most fans would like to see riders "Like" Tomac, Chandler, Johnson going for it every race than the humdrum it turned into after Tomac got hurt.
Dungey rode his ass off trying to stay with Tomac those first races, that's the kind of racing that will bring the fans out in droves and will build the sport. Nothing wrong with the way RD raced, just not what the fans come to enjoy.
Have to admit that those first four Nationals were some killer entertainment for those that live Moto.
Someone's a Tomac fanboy:whistle: Get back to me when ET actually finishes a full season, and wins a 450 title of any kind. THAT is what...
Someone's a Tomac fanboy
Get back to me when ET actually finishes a full season, and wins a 450 title of any kind. THAT is what they race for. That is what is impressive, not crazy balls over the head fast just to crash out and not to be seen again for 8 months...that's lame. To the OP.....RC by a mile...just like ^^SCR^^ just wrote.
Your right, I forgot to add RC ( Caught up something else)
And you're right about being a "fan boy" too. Lame? Something tells me even if Tomac or anyone else takes off and runs 4-5 450 Titles you would still be a fan of methodical racing. Sorry if I offended you but I'm Old school as you can imagine and I am a fan of racing, Bar-to-Bar hang on for everything you have in the Tank Racing!.
Times are changing I get it, I doubt we'll ever see 65,000+ fans like there was in the 80's. Why...Because there was bar-to-bar racing every moto.
Think Tomac proved who was fastest, as far as "Ever"? I would put Magoo, Johnson, Gary Jones, Bob Hannah, Danny Laporte and Ron Lechien right there...
Think Tomac proved who was fastest, as far as "Ever"? I would put Magoo, Johnson, Gary Jones, Bob Hannah, Danny Laporte and Ron Lechien right there with Tomac. (Couple I missed for sure)
Now a common denominator with those fastest guys is? you got it...always banged up.
Now most consistent? Ya put Dunge right up there but I rather see guys race WFO than cruising and if you take that "Poll" as another thread stated. I bet most fans would like to see riders "Like" Tomac, Chandler, Johnson going for it every race than the humdrum it turned into after Tomac got hurt.
Dungey rode his ass off trying to stay with Tomac those first races, that's the kind of racing that will bring the fans out in droves and will build the sport. Nothing wrong with the way RD raced, just not what the fans come to enjoy.
Have to admit that those first four Nationals were some killer entertainment for those that live Moto.
Someone's a Tomac fanboy:whistle: Get back to me when ET actually finishes a full season, and wins a 450 title of any kind. THAT is what...
Someone's a Tomac fanboy
Get back to me when ET actually finishes a full season, and wins a 450 title of any kind. THAT is what they race for. That is what is impressive, not crazy balls over the head fast just to crash out and not to be seen again for 8 months...that's lame. To the OP.....RC by a mile...just like ^^SCR^^ just wrote.
Your right, I forgot to add RC ( Caught up something else)
And you're right about being a "fan boy" too. Lame? Something tells me even...
Your right, I forgot to add RC ( Caught up something else)
And you're right about being a "fan boy" too. Lame? Something tells me even if Tomac or anyone else takes off and runs 4-5 450 Titles you would still be a fan of methodical racing. Sorry if I offended you but I'm Old school as you can imagine and I am a fan of racing, Bar-to-Bar hang on for everything you have in the Tank Racing!.
Times are changing I get it, I doubt we'll ever see 65,000+ fans like there was in the 80's. Why...Because there was bar-to-bar racing every moto.
I'm not offended...I'm mid 40's and the Dogger is my favorite rider of all time
Stewart, Carmichael, Villopoto, Tomac - I think are/were all faster than Dungey. I think Roczen was faster on a few occasions as well.
It's just that Dungey is unbeatable when it comes to consistency and not crossing the line. He's on the safe(r) side.
Considering all the above - I'm always rooting for Dungey, but fastest ever? No. One of the best racers ever? Yes.
Plus when he hits retirement he won't have to eat a handful of painkillers just to get out of bed...
I don't think many have understood what the OP was trying to say in his post so far.
I also think the OP should get out the results sheets for the past 20 years and get to work, working out what he was trying to get at
.
The simple fact that Dungey's finishing rate for moto's started or potentially started was mentioned on Pulp this week at 97% and the next best I think was in the low 80% range, would mean there is a very good chance on paper he could be the fastest rider on average for every moto started, especially if you were going to give other riders an average time the equvilent of the slowest finishing rider for races they did not finish.
That would put a major dent in the average speed / race time of any rider who has crashed out of many races.
Lol it could relegate someone like JS7 to close to the slowest rider ever on average.
"Every lap of every moto Dungey has ever entered and he'd be fastest ever" ? No way. Stew, Villo and Ricky would be faster imo. Plus if you did "every lap" your results would be skewed because riders who are dominating motos can take up 10 seconds off of their lap times at the end if motos so you'd have to do the fastest 12 laps(or 10 or 15 depending on track) to eliminate outliers.
I would submit that if you took an average of every lap of every moto dungey has entered as a pro, he is the fastest rider...
I would submit that if you took an average of every lap of every moto dungey has entered as a pro, he is the fastest rider ever. You would need to include a base time for laps in in moto's where riders DNF or DNS. (maybe give them the slowest time of the day for those laps.) I would think he has the highest moto completion percentage and did that while running with the elite times of the classes he entered. He doesn't have the 'fastest lap' but I bet he has the fastest motos. Thoughts
Someone's a Tomac fanboy:whistle: Get back to me when ET actually finishes a full season, and wins a 450 title of any kind. THAT is what...
Someone's a Tomac fanboy
Get back to me when ET actually finishes a full season, and wins a 450 title of any kind. THAT is what they race for. That is what is impressive, not crazy balls over the head fast just to crash out and not to be seen again for 8 months...that's lame. To the OP.....RC by a mile...just like ^^SCR^^ just wrote.
tomac is a 250 sx and mx champ and only in his 2nd season in the 450 class which were probably the most competitive years in the sport, ever. strange how fast people forget stuff...
I'd rather watch a tomac, rv or js7 going all out than someone settling for podiums. but that is just me.
Well yes RC maybe. But I didn't explain well. This year Tomac would get the slowest lap time of each moto for the series because he crashed out. He was riding over his head. Therefore, it is his fault he didn't compete and gets a low score. Dungey has only missed a few moto's in his entire career. Not many people can say that. I contend he missed so few moto's because he rides withen his skill level. Tomac and Villo get a lot of slow laps added because they pushed above thier envelope and crashed out.
Well yes RC maybe. But I didn't explain well. This year Tomac would get the slowest lap time of each moto for the series because he...
Well yes RC maybe. But I didn't explain well. This year Tomac would get the slowest lap time of each moto for the series because he crashed out. He was riding over his head. Therefore, it is his fault he didn't compete and gets a low score. Dungey has only missed a few moto's in his entire career. Not many people can say that. I contend he missed so few moto's because he rides withen his skill level. Tomac and Villo get a lot of slow laps added because they pushed above thier envelope and crashed out.
how do you know tomac rode over his head? he stated a view times that he wasn't pushing at all, infact he said his pace felt effortless to him.
dungey was only able to beat rv straight up in one race. one. I'd call that slower than rv, at least. all credit to dungey, he is a great athlete but not the fastest ever.
WTF? Did any of you watch the first 6 motos of the season? Tomac was ungodly fast and winning by massive margins. NO ONE can ride faster than that on a track
Fastest ever not ... most consistent ever i'd say yes.
I don't remember exactly how they said it but i think for Outdoors he has missed only 1 or 2 nationals in his whole carreer. He probly finished or podium almost all of them while at it ..
WTF? Did any of you watch the first 6 motos of the season? Tomac was ungodly fast and winning by massive margins. NO ONE can ride...
WTF? Did any of you watch the first 6 motos of the season? Tomac was ungodly fast and winning by massive margins. NO ONE can ride faster than that on a track
Pure speed , nobody has ever ridden a bike like that. That's coming from people who have been around the sport a long time.
People also keep mentioning " yeah , but Eli was riding over his head , that's why he crashed ".
When he wrecked he was actually cruising. When he was going full out , he was smooth as butter. AND , he said he had more in the tank. Which is a scary thought.
The fastest I have seen someone go live and in person was RC and Bubba at Washougal in 06. they were making mistakes, feet off the pegs crazy fast that day. It was amazing to watch those two go at it, that's the kind of racing that that you never forget, and that your always hoping for! most times when someone gets passed they give up and let off a little. Not that day both those guys were not letting off the throttle until they crashed. Win or die trying!
WTF? Did any of you watch the first 6 motos of the season? Tomac was ungodly fast and winning by massive margins. NO ONE can ride...
WTF? Did any of you watch the first 6 motos of the season? Tomac was ungodly fast and winning by massive margins. NO ONE can ride faster than that on a track
Pure speed , nobody has ever ridden a bike like that. That's coming from people who have been around the sport a long time.
People also...
Pure speed , nobody has ever ridden a bike like that. That's coming from people who have been around the sport a long time.
People also keep mentioning " yeah , but Eli was riding over his head , that's why he crashed ".
When he wrecked he was actually cruising. When he was going full out , he was smooth as butter. AND , he said he had more in the tank. Which is a scary thought.
RC entered 120 nationals in his career. He won 10 out of 10 titles. He never failed to start a single one. And he only DNF once at the final national of his career at Glen Helen. He broke his wrist. That's over 99.2%. He won 102 of the 120 nations he entered. I don't know off hand what he placed in the other 18 but most were second place.
He entered 84 450 nationals and won 76 of them. That's a 90% win record over seven years. I believe he finished second or on the podium in the other 8. He won most of those races by 20 to 30 seconds and was on cruise that last half of the race. He started and finished 36 of 36 125 nationals and won 25 or 26 of them.
Based on what the OP was saying on consistency, races finished, lap times including DNFs and take the total of lap times I would agree of current riders Dungey is probably the most consistent, least DNFs, and fastest I guess if you took all the lap times including DNFs. But with that criteria he still doesn't get anywhere close to RC.
As far as flat out fastest who knows? All the greats have had times in their careers or specific races were they were the fastest. I do believe that James Stewart is the fastest guy to ever ride a 125.
He has made 97% of the races since turning pro! The next best rider has made 80%!
Great facts. People will still argue facts.
Fastest? No. Consistency(a virtual oxymoron when defining the fastest of all time) does not equal fastest of all time, not even close. Especially in this case.
Anybody want to build a nice Excel spreadsheet that compares lap times from RC4, RV2, RD5 etc?
I guess track conditions and changes would screw stuff...
Anybody want to build a nice Excel spreadsheet that compares lap times from RC4, RV2, RD5 etc?
I guess track conditions and changes would screw stuff up. No doubt the new bikes/technology would play a big factor as well.
Really wouldn't help. Much of the racks have slightly different layouts , ect AND the weather could play a big part in a comparison chart. Apples to oranges there I'm afraid.
Think Tomac proved who was fastest, as far as "Ever"? I would put Magoo, Johnson, Gary Jones, Bob Hannah, Danny Laporte and Ron Lechien right there...
Think Tomac proved who was fastest, as far as "Ever"? I would put Magoo, Johnson, Gary Jones, Bob Hannah, Danny Laporte and Ron Lechien right there with Tomac. (Couple I missed for sure)
Now a common denominator with those fastest guys is? you got it...always banged up.
Now most consistent? Ya put Dunge right up there but I rather see guys race WFO than cruising and if you take that "Poll" as another thread stated. I bet most fans would like to see riders "Like" Tomac, Chandler, Johnson going for it every race than the humdrum it turned into after Tomac got hurt.
Dungey rode his ass off trying to stay with Tomac those first races, that's the kind of racing that will bring the fans out in droves and will build the sport. Nothing wrong with the way RD raced, just not what the fans come to enjoy.
Have to admit that those first four Nationals were some killer entertainment for those that live Moto.
Really , the bikes are no faster than they were 20 years ago ? they`d get lapped by 10th place now
If nothing else, he won the most, which means almost definitely he has the lowest average times, he also basically never fucked up, and when he did, always did amazing damage control going batshit fast to fix it.
And you're right about being a "fan boy" too. Lame? Something tells me even if Tomac or anyone else takes off and runs 4-5 450 Titles you would still be a fan of methodical racing. Sorry if I offended you but I'm Old school as you can imagine and I am a fan of racing, Bar-to-Bar hang on for everything you have in the Tank Racing!.
Times are changing I get it, I doubt we'll ever see 65,000+ fans like there was in the 80's. Why...Because there was bar-to-bar racing every moto.
The Shop
Stewart, Carmichael, Villopoto, Tomac - I think are/were all faster than Dungey. I think Roczen was faster on a few occasions as well.
It's just that Dungey is unbeatable when it comes to consistency and not crossing the line. He's on the safe(r) side.
Considering all the above - I'm always rooting for Dungey, but fastest ever? No. One of the best racers ever? Yes.
Plus when he hits retirement he won't have to eat a handful of painkillers just to get out of bed...
I also think the OP should get out the results sheets for the past 20 years and get to work, working out what he was trying to get at
The simple fact that Dungey's finishing rate for moto's started or potentially started was mentioned on Pulp this week at 97% and the next best I think was in the low 80% range, would mean there is a very good chance on paper he could be the fastest rider on average for every moto started, especially if you were going to give other riders an average time the equvilent of the slowest finishing rider for races they did not finish.
That would put a major dent in the average speed / race time of any rider who has crashed out of many races.
Lol it could relegate someone like JS7 to close to the slowest rider ever on average.
I'd rather watch a tomac, rv or js7 going all out than someone settling for podiums. but that is just me.
dungey was only able to beat rv straight up in one race. one. I'd call that slower than rv, at least. all credit to dungey, he is a great athlete but not the fastest ever.
I don't remember exactly how they said it but i think for Outdoors he has missed only 1 or 2 nationals in his whole carreer. He probly finished or podium almost all of them while at it ..
Pit Row
People also keep mentioning " yeah , but Eli was riding over his head , that's why he crashed ".
When he wrecked he was actually cruising. When he was going full out , he was smooth as butter. AND , he said he had more in the tank. Which is a scary thought.
Most consistent? Yes
He has made 97% of the races since turning pro! The next best rider has made 80%!
He entered 84 450 nationals and won 76 of them. That's a 90% win record over seven years. I believe he finished second or on the podium in the other 8. He won most of those races by 20 to 30 seconds and was on cruise that last half of the race. He started and finished 36 of 36 125 nationals and won 25 or 26 of them.
Based on what the OP was saying on consistency, races finished, lap times including DNFs and take the total of lap times I would agree of current riders Dungey is probably the most consistent, least DNFs, and fastest I guess if you took all the lap times including DNFs. But with that criteria he still doesn't get anywhere close to RC.
As far as flat out fastest who knows? All the greats have had times in their careers or specific races were they were the fastest. I do believe that James Stewart is the fastest guy to ever ride a 125.
Fastest? No. Consistency(a virtual oxymoron when defining the fastest of all time) does not equal fastest of all time, not even close. Especially in this case.
I guess track conditions and changes would screw stuff up. No doubt the new bikes/technology would play a big factor as well.
Post a reply to: Dungey, Fastest rider ever?