Dual front suspension tests.

Edited Date/Time 11/20/2020 1:36pm
We recently just completed some testing on a KTM 350 with a Dual front suspension system I have designed and built.
We got two very experienced riders on the bike in separate tests....Geoff Ballard and Ben Grabham.

Geoff was very impressed with the front suspension...his words....

"It was amazing to ride this crazy forked Kato 350, and for me it was unequaled in 3 main areas..1: For square edge high speed type bumps it was hard to notice you even hit them. 2: Landing off jumps was like landing on pillows and 3: It’s cornering and especially cornering in technical ruts with tree roots etc it was very confidence inspiring and effortless.

It seems the main reason that from steering and bump control and stability is so good is that the trail of the fork changes through its stroke (350mm travel) allowing all these good things to happen.

The set up was just a little soft for me but it’s early days of development atm so the next test will be interesting as well and it’s great to see an Aussie designer coming up with something that certainly works so well.

Great job Suspension Smith!"


Ben was equally impressed.....says this would work very well on a Desert race bike.....the reduction of rider Fatigue alone would be a race winner .....he is presently writing a Article on the test which will appear in Australasian Dirt Bike magazine.






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tobz
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11/19/2020 3:25pm
Very interesting. What sort of increase in weight do you see with this setup?

There’s something very funky looking with the larger than normal gap between the front wheel and the bike itself. Has it considerably changed its steering characteristics with different rake angles, etc?

Bump absorption is a great thing (especially square edged bumps), but i wonder how does the thing actually turn? Can’t wait to grab the next ADB! Finally something interesting to read in it Grinning
11/19/2020 4:00pm
The bike at first was about 5kg heavier with the new front using the stock WP OC forks...Geoff was noticing the weight as he pushed harder...not critical of it but it was noticable.

With Bens test I modified a set of WP AER forks to suit....I installed an extra Schraeder valve into the bottom of the air fork to give separately adjustable air main spring pressure and separated balance chamber pressure...this transformed this already good air fork.....but most importantly the modified air fork is 1.9kg lighter than the OC coil spring fork...we also put a 1.1kg lighter wheel/tyre/tube/axle combo in the bike...total weight loss was 3kg off the front....now the bike is just 2kg heavier.

Initially Ben tested the bike with the heavier OC coil spring fork...and loved it...later we put in the Modified Air fork for the first time so he could give us some direction on it....at first he didnt like it..."gone backwards"....we persisted with it making various pressure balance adjustments reb comp etc...in the end he said it was better than the previous fork...win win.

Turning/steering is actually its strong point as both test riders found....it is transformational...its steering geometry is completely out of the box thinking compared too a stock bike.....

Yeah should be a good read in ADB.....
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11/19/2020 6:08pm
Don't be suspicious, don't be suspicious.

Apart from the cost & weight being a negative, what else are you hiding.
Surely there must be some draw backs?
11/19/2020 7:59pm
Don't be suspicious, don't be suspicious. Apart from the cost & weight being a negative, what else are you hiding. Surely there must be some draw...
Don't be suspicious, don't be suspicious.

Apart from the cost & weight being a negative, what else are you hiding.
Surely there must be some draw backs?
Well yeah you got me ....there are some draw backs....higher front tire wear....when you do crash you will be doing it at a higher speed...mates will hate you until they get one.....Girlfriend/wife will be pissed because you are spending all your time having fun on the new bike..........I am sure there are more.......:-)
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Johnny Depp
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11/20/2020 8:44am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2020 8:45am
Would this be available as a kit? Is it bolt on? What are the future plans?

Very interesting indeed.
kNewc
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11/20/2020 8:45am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2020 1:21pm
Triple clamps look huge. You can't even see the suspension in the pics! Sounds like a cool idea. Also, I don't really care that dudes on bikes that big are saying that jump landings "felt like pillows" when they aren't going more than a few feet off the ground.

I guess I'm in a bad mood today.
11/20/2020 12:03pm
Would this be available as a kit? Is it bolt on? What are the future plans?

Very interesting indeed.
Looking at building weld on conversions (steering head gets cut off ) ) for a few people...see how that goes....if there is enough interest...........................
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11/20/2020 12:17pm
kNewc wrote:
Triple clamps look huge. You can't even see the suspension in the pics! Sounds like a cool idea. Also, I don't really care that dudes on...
Triple clamps look huge. You can't even see the suspension in the pics! Sounds like a cool idea. Also, I don't really care that dudes on bikes that big are saying that jump landings "felt like pillows" when they aren't going more than a few feet off the ground.

I guess I'm in a bad mood today.
Thats alright matey.....you probably have a lot to be down about right now......
Just keep the bike in perspective..it isnt a MX bike and it isnt being ridden on MX like tracks...its mostly being ridden/tested on rough natural terrain tracks and its suspension is setup for that .....which actually says a lot.
This is a MX based forum...I think I will stop posting here and give you guys a break...thanks for your time.....
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TooTallJason
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11/20/2020 12:24pm
kNewc wrote:
Triple clamps look huge. You can't even see the suspension in the pics! Sounds like a cool idea. Also, I don't really care that dudes on...
Triple clamps look huge. You can't even see the suspension in the pics! Sounds like a cool idea. Also, I don't really care that dudes on bikes that big are saying that jump landings "felt like pillows" when they aren't going more than a few feet off the ground.

I guess I'm in a bad mood today.
Thats alright matey.....you probably have a lot to be down about right now...... Just keep the bike in perspective..it isnt a MX bike and it isnt...
Thats alright matey.....you probably have a lot to be down about right now......
Just keep the bike in perspective..it isnt a MX bike and it isnt being ridden on MX like tracks...its mostly being ridden/tested on rough natural terrain tracks and its suspension is setup for that .....which actually says a lot.
This is a MX based forum...I think I will stop posting here and give you guys a break...thanks for your time.....
I don't think people are uninterested, just skeptical. I think that video of someone riding it full tilt would help your cause quite a bit. As of now, people just see the design and it's different and unique, and their mentality may be "if it works so great, why isn't there video, and why hasn't it been done."

I know that the front end of BMW's GS bikes are pretty similar and that people love those bikes and how they handle, so I'll admit, I'd certainly like to see video of it in action.
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kNewc
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11/20/2020 1:22pm
kNewc wrote:
Triple clamps look huge. You can't even see the suspension in the pics! Sounds like a cool idea. Also, I don't really care that dudes on...
Triple clamps look huge. You can't even see the suspension in the pics! Sounds like a cool idea. Also, I don't really care that dudes on bikes that big are saying that jump landings "felt like pillows" when they aren't going more than a few feet off the ground.

I guess I'm in a bad mood today.
Thats alright matey.....you probably have a lot to be down about right now...... Just keep the bike in perspective..it isnt a MX bike and it isnt...
Thats alright matey.....you probably have a lot to be down about right now......
Just keep the bike in perspective..it isnt a MX bike and it isnt being ridden on MX like tracks...its mostly being ridden/tested on rough natural terrain tracks and its suspension is setup for that .....which actually says a lot.
This is a MX based forum...I think I will stop posting here and give you guys a break...thanks for your time.....
Yes probably not for the moto market. Does it make the frame longer?
DF313
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11/20/2020 1:36pm
kNewc wrote:
Triple clamps look huge. You can't even see the suspension in the pics! Sounds like a cool idea. Also, I don't really care that dudes on...
Triple clamps look huge. You can't even see the suspension in the pics! Sounds like a cool idea. Also, I don't really care that dudes on bikes that big are saying that jump landings "felt like pillows" when they aren't going more than a few feet off the ground.

I guess I'm in a bad mood today.
Thats alright matey.....you probably have a lot to be down about right now...... Just keep the bike in perspective..it isnt a MX bike and it isnt...
Thats alright matey.....you probably have a lot to be down about right now......
Just keep the bike in perspective..it isnt a MX bike and it isnt being ridden on MX like tracks...its mostly being ridden/tested on rough natural terrain tracks and its suspension is setup for that .....which actually says a lot.
This is a MX based forum...I think I will stop posting here and give you guys a break...thanks for your time.....
Suspensionsmith, maybe you misunderstood what Vital is. It's a place where people with a common interest in motorcycles come..... to get ragged on by other people who also like motorcycles. I think most people would like you to stick around, even if they tell you otherwise.
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11/20/2020 5:29pm Edited Date/Time 11/20/2020 5:43pm
All good...I have finished what I wanted to say for the moment...I may post some updates as they eventuate....all the best.
Oh and the Australasian Dirt Bike Feature article on the test ride comes out maybe early Dec or Jan...also available I believe as a online digital purchase of the magazine.
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