Drop-offs: Update

Related:
Create New Tag

7/9/2010 3:46 AM

"yeah but how much does someone have to pay for a pretty small mistake?"

Great statement but why in SX as someone previously mentioned do we still have 100ft+ triple jumps that take balls of steel to make it or break it? How many top riders have been hurt this year because of SX?

Just saying....

I took this photo back in 1978 at the Trans-Am race. Interesting thing about this spot on the track is that this was one of "3" drop-offs in a row in this section, all on the downhill.

Two things to note:

1. There was an outside line that could be ridden without the drop offs - slower line

2. Whether a National weekend or Amateur weekend we all used this same section with all "3" drop offs back in the day.

Why did drop offs disappear in MX? Why are the races more competitive in SX when the tracks go old school?

Photo

Please don't mess with the "offroad" drop offs:

[LINK TO IMAGE][LINK TO IMAGE]

Thanks DC for listening and acting so quickly...

|

My bikes: '73 Honda SL70, '74 Suzuki TM75, '75 Honda CR125, '76 Honda CR125, '76 Suzuki RM100, '76 Honda XR75, '77 Suzuki RM125, '79 Maico Magnum 250, '80 Maico MC 250, '79 Maico Magnum 400, '85 Kawasaki KX250, '93 Honda XR250R, '94 Honda CR250, '01 KTM 300EXC, '04 KTM 300 EXC, '05 KTM 300 EXC, '06 KTM 300 XCW, '08 KTM 300 XCW

7/9/2010 4:35 AM

I think some of you are missing the point, we are not making the tracks easier or "pussifynig" the sport by being smarter about marking and altering the angle of drop-offs. It's because Dr. John Bodnar might have died when he accidentally drove his mule off one, as well as the accidents that happened to Langston, Price, etc. When Bodnar flipped his mule, I was standing right there. I helped pull him out and he was so shaken it was hard to explain. He told me he had only installed seat beats the night before, on a hunch something might happen. Well, it did. Thank God he had that premonition.

So WORCS, be disappointed in me, but yes, this is the kind of thing I spend some of my time thinking about. I imagine you would too if you had been standing there and saw (and heard) the carnage. And who didn't just cringe when Langston made his little end at Budds Creek? Here's a guy that's been out for two and a half years with injuries and illness, and then he gets hurt in the sighting lap? Same goes for Townley, who had issues with the exact same jump at Budds.

Shouldn't safety always be a priority?

DC
MX Sports

|

7/9/2010 4:42 AM

yes

|

7/9/2010 8:23 AM

These are great obstacles that really add to the spectacle and give GREAT exposure for the sponsors of our sport.

I've very supportive of the obstacle itself but I think it should be labeled w/ chalk or flags or something.

|

2013 KTM 250SX on Ohlins, 314cc built stroker engine with 56 very smooth and easy to ride rwhp.

7/9/2010 8:38 AM

I am not sure if this was already brought up.
The rolling lime dispensers they use on ball fields would work well. Put about 4 or 5 lines of lime across the track. They will get worn off, but there will be enough left on the track{or the sides of track} to make an impression in the riders mind. Every moto you just run some new lines across the track.

|

7/9/2010 8:41 AM

DC wrote:

I think some of you are missing the point, we are not making the tracks easier or "pussifynig" the sport by being smarter ...more

Yes. Safety should always be a priority. There are way more dangerous obstacles on a race track than a 4 or 5 foot drop off. Should you remove all of them for safety reasons? MX is dangerous.

I never heard, but why was Dr. Bodnar in that situation anyway? Why was a mule on the race track in that spot? Almost sounds like a self fulfilling prophecy since he installed seat belts because he knew something was going to happen.

|

Funny (and true) quote deleted at the request of miedosoracing1.

‎"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

7/9/2010 8:44 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/9/2010 8:45 AM

holeshot100 wrote:

I am not sure if this was already brought up.
The rolling lime dispensers they use on ball fields would work well. Put about ...more

When did the riders roll off of these jumps? Wasn't it after they had already run practice, in GL's case he had already done 2 practice sessions. Does anyone really believe that these pro racers don't know every obstacle on a track after their first few laps if that. Hell they probably know everything before they hit the track because they have gone over it with their team. It only takes me 4 or 5 laps at the most to remember a new track and I am old and forgetful.

|

Funny (and true) quote deleted at the request of miedosoracing1.

‎"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

7/9/2010 9:02 AM

DC wrote:

I think some of you are missing the point, we are not making the tracks easier or "pussifynig" the sport by being smarter ...more

panic revver wrote:

Yes. Safety should always be a priority. There are way more dangerous obstacles on a race track than a 4 or 5 foot drop off. ...more

Why are you arguing this at all?

From a racing standpoint it will make ZERO difference if there is a slight slope on the drop off.

Is your point that jumping the Leap is more dangerous? That's done during the course of RACING. He's not changing the racing. He's trying to make it safer for when they aren't at full tilt.

If you've ever worked on a track you would know that shit happens in between races.

On the other hand...if the leap was a takeoff with a 50' drop away and a flat wall on the LANDING, it would be dangerous and need to be changed. That's not the case.

|

7/9/2010 9:10 AM

DC wrote:

I think some of you are missing the point, we are not making the tracks easier or "pussifynig" the sport by being smarter ...more

panic revver wrote:

Yes. Safety should always be a priority. There are way more dangerous obstacles on a race track than a 4 or 5 foot drop off. ...more

txmxer wrote:

Why are you arguing this at all?

From a racing standpoint it will make ZERO difference if there is a slight slope on the ...more

I apologize txmxer. I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to have an opinion on this. My bad. Let me know what other topics are off limits too or which ones I am allowed to comment on.

|

Funny (and true) quote deleted at the request of miedosoracing1.

‎"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

7/9/2010 9:17 AM

panic revver wrote:

Yes. Safety should always be a priority. There are way more dangerous obstacles on a race track than a 4 or 5 foot drop off. ...more

txmxer wrote:

Why are you arguing this at all?

From a racing standpoint it will make ZERO difference if there is a slight slope on the ...more

panic revver wrote:

I apologize txmxer. I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to have an opinion on this. My bad. Let me know what other topics are ...more

apology accepted. I'll get back to you with the list.


But, why were you arguing this?

|

7/9/2010 9:24 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/9/2010 9:24 AM

txmxer wrote:

Why are you arguing this at all?

From a racing standpoint it will make ZERO difference if there is a slight slope on the ...more

panic revver wrote:

I apologize txmxer. I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to have an opinion on this. My bad. Let me know what other topics are ...more

txmxer wrote:

apology accepted. I'll get back to you with the list.


But, why were you arguing this?

Will it matter why? Anyway, because it is silly. I bet if you ask the 4 ( I think it is 4 anyway) people that have had an incident over a drop off they would all say they screwed up. Plain and simple.

I'll wait patiently for the list.

|

Funny (and true) quote deleted at the request of miedosoracing1.

‎"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

7/9/2010 9:26 AM

Panic, it was between practices, on the ski jump right last the mechanics area. Eddie Casillas was sitting on the apex of the jump, on the medicks access road, in his own mule. John was doing a quick track check, as he's done at every other race he's been to in the last decade. He was talking to Eddie on the radio, looking further down the track at the jump and corner where Alessi crashed two years ago.

Like someone else mentioned, it's not during the races at sleed that they can be a problem, but in accidental situation like this. A water truck operator, medic, team mule (what if that had been Mitch Payton in a mule with no protective roll bar?) or other equipment traveling at a very slow rate of speed is the problem here.

And Mr. Albertson, that is also a great suggestion.

DC
MX Sports

|

7/9/2010 9:31 AM

DC wrote:

I think some of you are missing the point, we are not making the tracks easier or "pussifynig" the sport by being smarter ...more

Absolutely DC the safety of the riders and the staff should be your priority, without question.

My disappointment is centered around the fact that many safety issues go unaddressed and yet this one which is centered around obstacles that are not difficult or dangerous seems to have gotten your undivided attention. How about addressing things like huge jumps like LaRoccos Leap, that a 250F shouldn't be doing, yet you know some young buck is going to come along and go for it out of bravdo and the stupidity of youth. When he shorts it and looks up at the medic and says, dude I can't feel my legs. Then what? How about the internal injuries that this sport endures because the top Pro's aren't required to wear any sort of core protection? Why not have Doc form a committee of other Dr.'s and address that problem? Or simply how about addressing ANY open gap jump on your race courses as being dangerous? Everyone knows it isn't any more difficult to jump a 60 ft gap than it is to jump a 60ft table yet the price for coming up 4ft short on a gap jump can be horrifically high. Why is the gap there, to look more spectacular for the "fans" of course... DC the list could go on and on.

To answer your direct question: as a matter of fact I do spend time thinking about the safety of riders. I have to, its part of my responsibilities too. Would I be angry and scared if I saw what happened to Doc? Hell ya! I also would have let the mud dry and let him settle down and then go over and ask him what the hell are you doing driving on the track with the mule? Because that is the real issue. What if Doc had driven down Mt. St. Helen in the mule gotten sideways in the mud and flipped his way down to the bottom? Would you grade the hill or take it out? With regards to Langston and the other parade lap incidents, why not eliminate parade laps? Maybe you should replace them with a parade lap walk... Just kinda borders on overkill doesn't it? Particularly when the real answer is to pay attention and understand what you do can bite you. Hard.

I understand you have genuine compassion and feeling about the riders in the series. You hate to see them injured at all, I get it. I feel the same way. I just would prefer that if issues are going to be addressed the real one's are.

|

7/9/2010 9:55 AM

What don't people get about this? The issue is not of the risks a rider takes when he races around the track--calculated risks about what to do when faced with difficult conditions or obstacles. A drop-off is a piddly thing to handle during a race. Hardly any risk at all.

The issue is when people are NOT racing but are on the track for other reasons and aren't necessarily paying attention to what they are doing or where they are. Unlike other types of jumps, a dropoff isn't visible as you approach it. Depending on the lighting conditions, it can look just like smooth track ahead.

Chalking lines on the dirt like a basepath is the most obvious, simple way to mark the danger between motos. It does mean you have to have one of the little line marker deals at each jump and a guy who will run across the track a couple of times with it as soon as every practice or moto is over.

|

7/9/2010 10:09 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/9/2010 10:11 AM

SteveS wrote:

What don't people get about this? The issue is not of the risks a rider takes when he races around the track--calculated risks ...more

aren't necessarily paying attention to what they are doing or where they are.



Simple solution. Pay fucking attention. You are making excuses for people fucking up. If someone ran into a tent pole because they weren't paying attention would you remove all the tents or cover the poles in foam?
|

Funny (and true) quote deleted at the request of miedosoracing1.

‎"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

7/9/2010 10:18 AM

SteveS wrote:

What don't people get about this? The issue is not of the risks a rider takes when he races around the track--calculated risks ...more

panic revver wrote: aren't necessarily paying attention to what they are doing or where they are.



Simple solution. Pay fucking attention. You are ...more

In this kinder, gentler society of GuyB's...I should probably not post...but, you are complete and total fucking moron.

You are saying the ABSOLUTE stupidest shit. I tried to find out what would spark someone to say such stupid shit...but, you got all sassy like a little bitch.

How's this...they are changing the fucking jump you piece of shit. Don't like it? Fuck off. You are not needed.

|

7/9/2010 10:47 AM

SteveS wrote:

What don't people get about this? The issue is not of the risks a rider takes when he races around the track--calculated risks ...more

panic revver wrote: aren't necessarily paying attention to what they are doing or where they are.



Simple solution. Pay fucking attention. You are ...more
txmxer wrote:

In this kinder, gentler society of GuyB's...I should probably not post...but, you are complete and total fucking moron.

You ...more

LOL Is that all you got? I am sorry if it is over your head to be able to discuss without going to 4th grade name calling and such.

Bottom line I don't care if they change it or not, there will still be someone that screws up and gets hurt doing something else. Is that the type of guy you are?

|

Funny (and true) quote deleted at the request of miedosoracing1.

‎"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

7/9/2010 11:50 AM


all the revver is tyring to say is that the problem was a mule was on the track and that these are professional motocross racers and should know the track bump for bump race speed or not.

don't forget Jimmy Button guys...parade lap! but there have been whoops ever since...

i do agree with safety but there has to be a line drawn to be able to do your job. i deal with it at my own job. for safety statistics sake whenever someone gets hurt doing something the task or tool is smothered with red tape preventing you from being able to do your job and sooner or later we will be getting paid to show up cause we won't be able to do anything for the sake of getting hurt.

i also agree that there are bigger fish to fry addressing bigger problems such as do or die gaps on a race course...

bag away! i'm done
|

7/9/2010 2:49 PM

panic revver wrote:

Langston forgot he couldn't roll a drop off or he made a bone head mistake and was looking backwards as he went off of it?

...more

DownSouth wrote:

The riders have had incidents because they were proccupied with looking at track conditions and lines while on the sighting ...more

panic revver wrote:

Langston was looking to the right and behind him. He EFFED up. Doc EFFED up. The WMA rider, I don't know the story but if she ...more

YOU have to remember these bike hit nuetral alot more than they should as false nuetrals have been a problem for years ....

|

02 PW80 8) #N8 [LINK TO IMAGE]

7/9/2010 3:14 PM

Man, I cant wait to get shit faced with my buddies tonight and brag about how my input helped change the drop offs!! Thanks DC!! Then in a few weeks when Im getting shit faced on sturday and watching the second motos live(Thanks again DC!!) I can say I told you so!!! God damn I'm thirsty now!!

|

7/9/2010 4:00 PM

DownSouth wrote:

The riders have had incidents because they were proccupied with looking at track conditions and lines while on the sighting ...more

panic revver wrote:

Langston was looking to the right and behind him. He EFFED up. Doc EFFED up. The WMA rider, I don't know the story but if she ...more

rockcrawlerdude wrote:

YOU have to remember these bike hit nuetral alot more than they should as false nuetrals have been a problem for years ....

Yes I understand that, I really do. Been there and done that and ate shit because of it. I didn't tell the track owner to take out that little double after the corner that I did it on. Ok bike error on one account if indeed it was a false neutral. You can hit a false neutral on any part of the track. Isn't that what ended Bubba's A1 in 2009?

|

Funny (and true) quote deleted at the request of miedosoracing1.

‎"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

7/9/2010 4:35 PM

This is just stupid.. I'm all for making things safe, but seriously, its a freakin' mx track!!! There may be some drop offs and some jumps. Doc needs to pay a fuckin attention!!!! Your on the track with a mule, pay attention!!! Langston? Same thing!! Why not fill in any jumps with a gap?? This is just the start of only one rider on the track at a time, best lap wins... Really getting hard to stay a fan...

|

7/9/2010 5:27 PM

The decision has already been made. Why can't everyone just STFU about it now?

|

7/9/2010 5:34 PM

It really is a simple fix, keep the jump size, just add a down side... the bikes will still launch, and if there is an angle of anything above 30 degrees the sponsor logos will still show on tv...

|

Cheers, Crush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


7/11/2010 10:29 AM

Just to clarify!

WORCSRacer wrote: "EXAMINE THE FACTS Doc Bodnar IGNORED several radio warning calls, that he admits to hearing, about drop off and drove off it anyway. Doc is a great guy and obviously smart but this was stupid on his part and he admits it. I am certain he isn't complaining that they are to dangerous. Langston's get off a week ago had exactly the same cause he brainfarted forgot it was there and then wadded. oops. Both of these were stupid mistakes. As close to stupid as the crashes is DC coming on here and apologizing and looking for a way to make something that isn't dangerous "safer". DC you want to make the sport safer? Worry about 4th gear tapped 120' footers that have a wheelchair waiting for you if you screw it up. That would be worth your time, this isn't."

WORCSRacer, I think you are being a bit HARSH in your response. I did not IGNORE "several" radio warning calls, I was already moving down the hill and I didn't even realize Eddie was talking to me (there are always several conversations going on the same channel at once). I was talking to a Team Manager and the ONE short message wasn't even picked up by my brain until my front wheels were already on the way down.

I was trying to get to the bottom of the track (where Alessi had his fall previously) in between practices, down the track where I had gone many times previously (the drop-off wasn't there the day before!), as there were vehicles in the normal path. I had already surveyed the track, as not to run over any deep rider lines (see photo) and yes, I was trying to get to my spot quickly as not to delay practice. Was it an accident? Yes. Was it done because I IGNORED a warning? Give me a break! I made a mistake in a part of the track that was recently changed and I wasn't aware.

I have only the UTMOST respect for Davey Coombs and MX Sports, as they have been aggressively pursuing ways to make the tracks safer EVERY WEEK! I applaud them for their efforts, and as these posts demonstrate, he is not afraid to look at the issues and correct them. MX Sports should be proud of their hard work and dedication, and believe me, there are many more issues that will undoubtedly come up in racing that will need re-evaluation as the season progresses, and they will handle them with the same openness and honesty that they have shown in the past. Fix things and move on, that always works for me!

I have never attempted to go down Mt. St. Helen's, but I am sure it would be a rush! I have gone down Shoei Hill to attend to riders and luckily have never crashed before. All of us working on an active track know the risks of getting injured by a wayward bike and rider (especially flaggers) but we take the risk every week (ask Jake Weimer) and look for ways to always improve. And yes, we are human and make mistakes. Luckily, I learned from mine and didn't find myself on the disabled list.

Doc Bodnar

[LINK TO IMAGE]

|

7/11/2010 10:58 AM

Glad you are okay Doc.

Most of the bullshit is just attacks on D.C. and the typical grandstanding of I got an ear and will bend it because I can brag about it to my cronies.

|

7/11/2010 11:58 AM

We are so lucky to have people like DC and the Doc involved with our beloved sport. When racers run the racing and listen and adjust to make things better like DC has, it makes it better for all who love Motocross. Having a Doctor who understands racing and racers actually in attendance is priceless.
PS: DC, any chance of MX Sports taking over the operation of SX any time soon? whistling

|

"I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."~ Harry S. Truman

7/11/2010 12:04 PM

Trip wrote:

This is just stupid.. I'm all for making things safe, but seriously, its a freakin' mx track!!! There may be some drop offs ...more

DC, please keep making decisions that get Trip out of this sport.

|

7/11/2010 12:20 PM

SXDoc wrote:

Just to clarify!

WORCSRacer wrote: "EXAMINE THE FACTS Doc Bodnar IGNORED several radio warning calls, that he admits to ...more

Doc,

First and foremost I am so glad you're OK. Great call on the seat-belts too. Safety is and should be DC and anyone involved with MX Sports priority. You guys do a fantastic job. I'm sorry if I was too harsh on you I know its not that you're "stupid" but you have to admit things get foggy with excitement and adrenaline pumping, it was a mistake plain and simple. I doubt you'd ever make it again.

The real question for me through all of this is why the "drop off" when there are so many other issues that (IMO) need to be addressed as a more clear and present danger to the safety of the riders and the sport. i.e. development or research to better protect riders from internal injuries, huge gap jumps... I'd like to know what you think.

Thanks again for all your hard work and professionalism.

|

7/11/2010 4:04 PM

WORCSRacer wrote:

Doc,

First and foremost I am so glad you're OK. Great call on the seat-belts too. Safety is and should be DC and anyone ...more

Why NOT the fucking dropoff? Because some things are inherently dangerous in the sport and are a part of it, other things that CAN be changed and made safer shouldn't be? WORCS, you have your head up your ass on this one. MX Sports should address every safety issue immediately and as far as I know it has done so. Your argument is ridiculous...

|